nt

It's like Bill Maher says... they live in a bubble and truth does not penetrate it. I admire your effort!

Just be glad your entire FAMILY is not like them. That is what I have to deal with ! My own brother voted for prop 8 to take away my marriage rights : (

Do you still talk to him?

We used to be best friends until he became involved in a church that I would call extreme, but now practically is normal I guess. Anyway they were hardcore about supporting prop 8. Really pissed me off. They acted like they still cared about me, but you don't remove rights from your brother if you care about him, I don't think. Very sad situation.

I'm sorry your brother has been so brainwashed by superstition that he would hurt you in such a way. Find consolation in the fact that there are people who love and support for no other reason than you are who you are. They don't care about "you" they care about who they want you to become.... Forget about them and move on...being happy is the best reward...and revenge.

But It's not that easy to just walk away because you do take pain and regret with you. I have a very small family which for a long time has revolved around his children, so that also has kept me on eggshells. So I keep my distance. Compared to what it COULD have been, i'ts messed up. The years that have gone by can never be replaced. I just have to accept reality and do my best. But as I said, we don't talk much because I expect an apology that I'll probably never get. P.s. I'm not looking for people to feel sorry for me. I'm sharing so others might understand what It's like for some of us in this situation.

Nothing gives me greater pleasure than asking some male, "Were you a virgin when you got married?" It's really fun if there are other men around. When he answers No...which they all do...I say, "I rest my case" and walk away.

You can't communicate with people like that. There is no common language. Ultimately we all believe what we believe and we all believe we arrive at our conclusions from thinking issues through....What is so tragically funny about today's republicans is that they never seem to question those beliefs at all whereas, Democrats question everything all the time...it is our greatest strength and our greatest weakness...it is that lack of our own certainty that makes republicans nervous...so they stick with the guys who tell them to follow the party line to a T no questions allowed.

you noticed the one that listened to you and then discarded everything you told him did not try to change your point of view and the other walked away
do the same and be careful
these folks are nuts enough to be danger one way or another imo

line of voltaire's: "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere"

A month ago I dropped by my parents house to visit. Dad was in the carport at the picnic table and offered me a beer.

No sooner then a sat down to shoot the breeze then he layed into me for supporting Obama. He obviously had been drinking and I had never even told him I was voting for Obama but he knew I was a Democrat.

He called Obama a "Silver Tongue Snake." His voice was so loud I know the neighbors had to have heard him yelling. I couldn't get a word in edgewise. I was finally able to tell him that Obama saved GM and Chrysler. He looked at me and yelled, "They should have been left to fail" (Dad has a Ram 2500 pickup truck) Then I said how great it was that his grand daughter could stay under our insurance policy and that his grandson wouldn't have to worry about his Asthma since it's a covered precondition. He just said "So what!"

Then he started praising Ryan. I looked at him in disbelief. He said "You know who he is?" And I said, "Sure he is on the budget committee." Then I tried to say how Ryan had no way to pay for the tax breaks he was proposing. But my dad wouldn't hear any of it and interrupted everytime I tried to talk.

I finally had enough and slammed my beer on the table and went back to my car with my Mom walking behind me apologizing.

A couple days later my mom calls up and says my Dad never mentioned a thing about the conversation and acted like it never happened. She said he had been drinking most of the day before I dropped by. I spoke with him tonight and he mentioned something about early voting and I told him we already went. I was expecting another outburst but he didn't say anything except he said he would go Tuesday and the recent storm was a wakeup call. Not sure what he meant by that and decided I better not go there. He did vote for Obama in 2008. Which is why the outburst surprised me. So who knows. I can't figure folks out.

My sister is so far gone and the fact that your dad voted for PBO in 2008 is amazing, my sis is lifelong repuke. There is no talking, there is no sane, rational discussion. I have begged her to stop and she won't. The only time I bring up politics is to defend myself and my president. She makes comments and nasty jibes every chance she gets. And then there's the lovely x-mas and b-day gifts of uber right wing religious cds, dvds, and books I get every year. I don't even donate them, I just recycle the parts.

I know exactly the type you are talking about. You can't talk to them and they won't listen. They act like bullies and tear into Obama with all kinds of names. But they play the Christian act. It's absolutely incredible.

Just found a great response on factcheck.org for her latest and greatest lies. Proud of myself. Won't do any good but makes me sleep better. Good luck with ur dad.

before the last Presidential election he said, "It was the democrats year but they had to go and nominate a N***' He stomped out and she said, "He's not a racist!"

And they may change their minds, but never tell you. Some people can never bear to be thought wrong. So it may not be useless. You could also have been a piece of something that gets them to change their minds over time. You may not have done it right there, but some future person may add something else, and another something else, until this person realizes they are uninformed and didn't realize what they were doing before was against their interests. But for right then, the guy had to save face so you wouldn't think he had been wrong about something.

Don't engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

I think that part of the problem is that you are probably putting in too many sugary drinks into the vending machines.

Go with less sugar and see if these monkeys don't calm down a little!!

Don't cast your pearls before swine (Jesus <the bible guy&gt

There are coffee shops and there are coffee shops. Some are pretty obviously there for the more sophisticated customer. If I were you, I'd look around to see what you can find. Or ask around cuz word gets out...

"I wonder why I even bother to talk with these jackasses.. In all my life I have never been able to change the mind of a rightie..and at this point I feel I must need some kind of shock therapy to wake my brain and rewire it so I dont even try!"

is correct... don't bother. They are either truly ignorant or WILLFULLY stupid. Either way, there's little you can do to change their minds. So save yours and avoid any conversation with them

BUT if you cannot stop yourself, keep it simple and tell them this very easy bit of history:

Social Security and Medicare are legacies (might need a simpler word) of DEMOCRATIC presidents Franklin Roosevelt and Lyndon Johnson, respectively. Republicans fought against the inception of both and have worked mightily to destroy them ever since (recall Newt's wither on the vine comments back under the Contract on America). Repukes only pretend to want to save these programs when they want to gamble with the money on Wall Street (Bush, the dumber)

In short, SS and Medicare are Democratic, Big government programs that work. And since when has a repuke been for a big government program or supported a Democratic proposal.

SS & Medicare brought to you by the Democratic Party!

Many people taken in by con artists will not admit it, especially those that feel vulnerable.

When people feel like they are vulnerable, they will avoid showing weakness by admitting they are wrong. For older Americans this is especially true.

A lot of people are scared about the future. The FACT President Obama has done more to ensure a brighter future for American citizens is being overshadowed by LIES and inconsistencies from the rwnjs. The folks that bought into the lies might suspect they've been con'ed but can't admit it because they would also have to admit they are vulnerable. This also makes them more vulnerable to greater confidence games and mistrustful of competing truths. It is a sick circle that seems to border on addiction.

The only things that can break the circle are trust, truth and time. Those are the building blocks of true confidence, not preying on vulnerability.

I went to the coffee shop today thinking that I would say nothing just keep my mouth shut..

I was sitting there and some guy came in all excited.." Did you hear what Obama said? He said he wants people to vote for revenge!!!!"
I tried to explain to him the context but he wouldn't listen instead brought up the deficit...and at that point I lost it...
I told him the deficit was caused by two unfunded wars and asked him what he thought about all the people that were killed in the senseless war in Iraq including US veterans. caused by George Bush. His only reply was "Whatever!" Which made me all the madder! Dismissing deaths so easily!!

I really dont remember the rest of the "conversation" but I was furious and he left..

I actually could not believe how quickly I exploded and how angry I became...

I can not wait until the election..If Obama is defeated especially by fraud..i think I will go wild...if he wins..as I expect I might well get punched out by one of these freaks that I fully intend to ridicule..

I am too fucking old to hold back my feelings at this point!!

but, you can take solace in one certainty,

the old ones die.

I've been chuckling at this one for decades though!

Rather, they believe what they're saying because they're voting for Romney (or against Obama). Their decision to support him was made long before facts of any kind entered into the equation, so facts will never dissuade them. You're dealing with people who are emotionally committed to getting rid of Obama for deep-seated personal reasons and who therefore *want* to believe anything that reinforces their emotional stance.

Put simply, you can't talk sense to them.

and my fault for not acting on that and keeping my mouth shut..