2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumLets list the mental gymnastics that Hillary supporters have to do...
I'll start the list:
1. Hillary is honest
2. Hillary has good judgement
3. Hillary is innocent in the email scandal and the FBI is just wasting their time
4. Hillary doesn't give anything back to the rich donors who fund her campaigns
5. Progressives don't represent the values of the Democratic Party
Cobalt Violet
(9,905 posts)Seems to be one they keep pounding lately anyway.
Chasstev365
(5,191 posts)Just to correct you: She wins when she is nominate on the floor of the convention 2 months from now. SHE HAS NOT WON ANYTHING YET!
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)Rules".
The real world is going to stick with the old rules, which on June 7th will have President Obama, Senator Warren, the media, and 99 percent of national and downticket Democrats on Hillary's side against sore-loser crybaby Bernie Sanders. He should have conceded MONTHs ago, when he first fell behind by so many hundreds of delegates that nomination became impossible. That's what other Democratic also-rans have done for decades.
Cobalt Violet
(9,905 posts)I'm not a Hillary supporter at all. I really can't stand Third Way policies at all.
840high
(17,196 posts)by them.
SFnomad
(3,473 posts)the people have spoken. No gymnastics required.
6chars
(3,967 posts)AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)A way the system is rigged. Also the constant pressing that Hillary is inevitable. She can't win fairly.
mythology
(9,527 posts)Speaking of mental gymnastics, how to explain Clinton losing to Obama when Clinton has the magic powers to rig the system?
Clinton won fairly except in the bitter minds of some Sanders supporters who can't come to grips with it yet.
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)It takes years and a lot of work to get name recognition.
annavictorious
(934 posts)He didn't.
Dem2
(8,168 posts)I don't attack either candidate because I find them both acceptable and there's more than enough hate in the world.
beachbumbob
(9,263 posts)All we need to know
FuzzyRabbit
(1,969 posts)Winning is the only thing.
Joob
(1,065 posts)6. Libya
7. Honduras
8. Iraq vote
9. Election fraud doesn't exist
10. Voter suppression - it's just filthy independents, not people willing to engage with democrats and become one.
11. Horrible trade deals
12. Fracking
SFnomad
(3,473 posts)Why has BS been such a poor candidate? And why is he losing by so much?
And pretending that all his problems are because the DNC is rigged against him and that so many of his supporters were disenfranchised (and that Secretary Clinton's were not) ... is a cop out. That isn't why he is coming in second place.
Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)but that doesn't make it so. Massive cheating via DWS is a completely legit answer for why the primaries have turned out as they have.
SFnomad
(3,473 posts)Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)You've still addressed nothing. Being dismissive doesn't change the facts.
SFnomad
(3,473 posts)and that's a fact. What happened is politics and the rules as they exist. BS knew what they were (or he should have) when he signed up for this. And now a year later, you can't come back and say how unfair those rules were and that they cost him the nomination ... because they didn't. BS cost himself the nomination, BS handicapped himself right from the beginning.
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)Joob
(1,065 posts)Nothing to see here
The Clinton Foundation exists to do charity work.
Cher
Joob
(1,065 posts)And it was never used for weapon deals for people who donated to it, and if that did happen pure Coincidence!
creeksneakers2
(7,476 posts)Saudi Arabia did not donate to the foundation while Hillary was secretary of state. They donated before but then it was not known she was going to be secretary. No quid pro quo was possible
Arms deals are extremely complex and go through many entities. They can take as long as seven years. Most of what happens comes under the Pentagon. Its not as if somebody could take a bribe and just approve one.
The Saudi Arms deal was a major initiative of the entire administration. It started under Bush but was expanded under Obama for two major reasons. First, it was expected to produce 50,000 or 75,000 jobs. This was at a time when the 2008 crash left the country with high unemployment and the arms jobs were among the few that could be produced. The administration also wanted to build a barrier to Iran. The Saudi deal was the largest arms sale ever. It was inconceivable that Hillary wouldn't approve it. Tying the approval to donations to a foundation the Clintons got no direct compensation from is far fetched. Its like a whole city being flooded by a hurricane and somebody saying the flood was caused by someone letting their faucet drip.
The falsehood that Hillary's approval was because of Saudi donations to the foundation comes from an International Business Times article that is full of holes.
Joob
(1,065 posts)Who paid for her speeches when she was a "private citizen" !! Forgot to add that too!
Thanks! 9/10 of Mental gymnastics landing!
creeksneakers2
(7,476 posts)change of subject. 10
840high
(17,196 posts)frazzled
(18,402 posts)...
But the main reason Hayden says hes supporting Hillary is that the black community is overwhelmingly supporting her:
"I intend to vote for Hillary Clinton in the California primary for one fundamental reason. It has to do with race. My life since 1960 has been committed to the causes of African Americans, the Chicano movement, the labor movement, and freedom struggles in Vietnam, Cuba and Latin America.
...
What would cause me to turn my back on all those people who have shaped who I am? That would be a transgression on my personal code. I have been on too many freedom rides, too many marches, too many jail cells, and far too many gravesites to breach that trust."
http://leftwingnation.org/civil-rights-legend-tom-hayden-abandons-bernie-for-hillary/
Number23
(24,544 posts)Truly huge.
Holy SHIT. That. Is HUGE. Though I just noticed this happened in April.
nolabels
(13,133 posts)Then again some get so full of themselves they don't even notice it till it's too late
frazzled
(18,402 posts)Bernie is pretty darned old, and it sometimes leads to warped visions of reality and to falling back on old slogans without any comprehension of details.
nolabels
(13,133 posts)My mom is 87, i see her everyday and help her out with whatever she needs. Though some of her capacities have diminished you would still have a hard time finding somebody that has a grudge or something else to hold against her. The solid fact she has been as honest as she could be all her life makes it easy for her.
Trust is not an easy thing to find but is easy to see
It's not what you forget when you get old, it's just the things that you thought you knew.
BootinUp
(47,187 posts)Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)BootinUp
(47,187 posts)AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)coco77
(1,327 posts)He will recreate the 90's just wait everyone will love it
MFM008
(19,818 posts)the 1890s and you will love that.
coco77
(1,327 posts)To get everyone back together again. Many who are voting for him need to see who really is shipping their jobs overseas they don't seem to understand. Trump will make them feel better.
JudyM
(29,274 posts)15. She is more progressive than Bernie
16. She is more electable vs Trump than Bernie is
17. Despite the scandalous way she ran the State Dept., and the resulting investigations she is going to be mired in for endless months, she will STILL be "more effective" than Bernie could be.
18. Democrats who are critical of her are secretly right wing or sexist or both.
19. Her Haiti minimum wage hike suppression never happened.
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)Cher
Eccho
(147 posts)Sanders
1. Sierra Blanca
2. Jane's university loan.
Cartwheel away.
JudyM
(29,274 posts)I give that somersault a 1 out of 10.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)Talk about Pretzel Logic!
Holy crap, you have to be made of rubber to bend that many directions at the same time.
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)...from stances she's taken to statements she's made in her own words are part of a RW conspiracy.
enid602
(8,652 posts)Bernie would never give over a milllion to someone to buy influence, even if that person is Chuck Todd's wife.
Wall Streeters and bankers are bad. Banks must be broken up. Banks fucked people over. No one, not even the President of Burlington College
would ever fuck over a bank. Or a college. Or the Catholic Church. Or a state development agency.
Bern would never adopt a less than progressive stance on guns just to gain entrance to the Congress.
Bern would never vote for wasteful military pork that benefits his constituents just to get reelected.
Crusty. Old. Opportunistic. Political. Hack.
tandem5
(2,072 posts)7. A congressional oversight committee accused her of lying and after three years of investigation she decided not to press charges.
8. Her emails have revealed she is so adept at negotiation a Nigerian prince wired her 1.3 million without asking for any upfront costs.
9. She retroactively made one of her pantsuits top secret.
10. She's on a first name basis with the world.
Stay silly my friends!
NJCher
(35,730 posts)She has the power and authority to de-classify military and other state classified information by telling employers to take off security headers and saying, "Send it to me at home!"
She can use a personal email 'cuz "other people working for State have done it."
Cher
NJCher
(35,730 posts)Hillary books her rallies into small convention centers because she wants a more intimate setting to speak to her voters.
Cher
Scuba
(53,475 posts)There's no quid pro quo, not even a potential conflict of interest.
Her real position is the one she stated most recently.
She dodged sniper fire in Bosnia.
Quoting her verbatim is a right-wing attack.
She tries to tell the truth.
She's not influenced by money.
She always remains calm and collected.
This is not her picture.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)First, a factoid: "In addition to the normal Democratic supporters, Sanders does well among young white males."
From this, a strawman: "Sanders supporters are racists and sexists!" (ignore for the moment, the fact that this strawman is itself inherently a bigoted stereotype)
From that strawman: "Nothing you can do will ever get young white men to stop voting for Republicans".
... which is inherently contradicted by the factoid itself.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Tal Vez
(660 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)Tal Vez
(660 posts)At least when I can't find my phone, I can dial the number.
XRubicon
(2,212 posts)Congrats!
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)barrow-wight
(744 posts)but the mental gymnastics required to believe Bernie has a chance at the nomination are truly olympic-worthy.
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)barrow-wight
(744 posts)Are you also worried about her Twitter too?
desmiller
(747 posts)GRhodes
(162 posts)Before she announced: Citizens United is horrible.
After: Banks being her largest donors over her career and her getting more money from banks this election cycle than all the other candidates combined, her getting filthy rich thanks to large corporations, isn't a concern. She's Hillary, and everyone else are just humans.
The Iraq War was horrible, Bush lied and people died.
She becomes the nominee, and whoopsie, she made a mistake (and continues to, with her continued to support of regime change, and hawkish foreign policy positions).
She won many primaries based on her "electability". Never mind that she was never more electable, polls horribly, does much worse than Sanders versus Trump and is not liked or trusted. Look at their silly justifications for overlooking all that when explaining why they still back her.
Then there's the justifications for all their damn lies, the Berniebros, the outright lies about what happened in Vegas, the "English only" lie. Remember when he hinted at her not being qualified? They went crazy over that fake controversy. None of them would dare to address the horrible, and often racist, things she said in 2008 when running against Obama, and certainly never touched her saying on numerous occasions that she and McCain were qualified and he wasn't (I think she she said on numerous occasions that all he had was a speech). Blatant, constant lying, intentional short term memory, and no damn shame.
baldguy
(36,649 posts)It doesn't change the fact that more Democrats prefer the Democrat, and voted for her.