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AZ Progressive

(3,411 posts)
Sun May 29, 2016, 06:01 PM May 2016

Lets list the mental gymnastics that Hillary supporters have to do...

I'll start the list:

1. Hillary is honest

2. Hillary has good judgement

3. Hillary is innocent in the email scandal and the FBI is just wasting their time

4. Hillary doesn't give anything back to the rich donors who fund her campaigns

5. Progressives don't represent the values of the Democratic Party

70 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Lets list the mental gymnastics that Hillary supporters have to do... (Original Post) AZ Progressive May 2016 OP
Hillary won already. Cobalt Violet May 2016 #1
That is all you ever say! Chasstev365 May 2016 #29
You forgot to say, "New ProgressiveEconomist May 2016 #40
I'm just replying to op about the mental gymnatstics of her supporters since that's all they say. Cobalt Violet May 2016 #43
That has been so overdone 840high May 2016 #55
Secretary Clinton nearly 300 pledged delegates ahead, 3+ million voters ahead SFnomad May 2016 #2
That was some impressive gymnastics 6chars May 2016 #3
Frontloading, before Bernie was more recognized AZ Progressive May 2016 #5
How did that work out in 2008? mythology May 2016 #16
I guess her rigging powers just weren't up to snuff 8 years ago. LOL Garrett78 May 2016 #17
Looks like Bernie waited to long to become a Democrat hack89 May 2016 #19
He had 25 years in Congress to get something done. annavictorious May 2016 #27
There are two Democrats. I like both of them. Dem2 May 2016 #4
Hillary wins beachbumbob May 2016 #6
Exactly right! FuzzyRabbit May 2016 #64
Mental Gymnastics Numbers 6-12 Joob May 2016 #7
.... 840high May 2016 #56
If Secretary Clinton is as poor a choice as you claim, maybe you should be asking the question ... SFnomad May 2016 #8
Well, you say it's a cop-out... Jester Messiah May 2016 #33
Massive cheating? #smh .. I guess I shouldn't have expected any better of an excuse n/t SFnomad May 2016 #49
Yeah, keep on shaking your head. Jester Messiah May 2016 #50
I'm going to keep #smh and continue to be dismissive, because "massive cheating" didn't happen SFnomad May 2016 #60
13. Hillary is liked among the voting electorate AZ Progressive May 2016 #9
14. Nothing wrong with the Clinton Foundation Joob May 2016 #10
how about NJCher May 2016 #34
Hehe, sure and the State Department was never used as a tool for it. Joob May 2016 #35
Yes, Its a coincidence creeksneakers2 May 2016 #39
Oh of course! They donated before they "knew" !!! duh!! Just like the speeches to the banks!!!! Joob May 2016 #44
Good switch creeksneakers2 May 2016 #48
hahaha!!!! 840high May 2016 #57
Tom Hayden, who will vote for her in CA, says its easy frazzled May 2016 #11
That is huge!! Number23 May 2016 #15
When you get old, getting comfortable can be diminishing and sometimes even dangerous nolabels May 2016 #18
I know frazzled May 2016 #28
But at least he is not trying to sell me to corporations to enlarge his checkbook nolabels May 2016 #31
That is an awesome statement. nt BootinUp May 2016 #30
good for him. he was married to Jane Fonda who also endorses HRC. Hiraeth May 2016 #37
Its OVER AZ! Try again next time. nt BootinUp May 2016 #12
Your breaking... AZ Progressive May 2016 #23
Bill will take up the slack .. coco77 May 2016 #13
And trump will recreate MFM008 May 2016 #26
Maybe this country need a little Trump ... coco77 May 2016 #66
15 -19 JudyM May 2016 #14
20. Anyone who doesn't support Hillary is a Trump supporter AZ Progressive May 2016 #21
good ones NJCher May 2016 #32
Let me try a couple for fun. Eccho May 2016 #53
Ooh, horrible in comparison!! JudyM May 2016 #54
Sorry, what? Eccho May 2016 #59
No shit! 99Forever May 2016 #20
Anything that could possibly be seen as negative... TCJ70 May 2016 #22
hack enid602 May 2016 #24
6. She once debated herself and won. tandem5 May 2016 #25
our digital diva... NJCher May 2016 #36
Oooh! Oooh! How about this one: NJCher May 2016 #38
Pro-death penalty equals progressive. Scuba May 2016 #41
She "believes" she tells the truth. n/t lumberjack_jeff May 2016 #46
16. More days of posts like this nt geek tragedy May 2016 #42
21) Bernie bros! lumberjack_jeff May 2016 #45
It's not Conservative Republican talk to use the meme "just want free stuff" Armstead May 2016 #47
I think Hillary will keep looking better and better to every Democrat as time goes on. Tal Vez May 2016 #51
I can't find my rose colored glasses. 840high May 2016 #61
They have to be around there somewhere!! Tal Vez May 2016 #65
Nice strawman/I don't know what... XRubicon May 2016 #52
This thread is a repeat of another in 2012: joshcryer May 2016 #58
I don't know about those mental gymnastics, barrow-wight May 2016 #62
It also takes mental gymnastics to believe that Hillary did nothing wrong with the emails AZ Progressive May 2016 #67
Emails emails emails barrow-wight May 2016 #69
"Tone it down" desmiller May 2016 #63
Got a few GRhodes May 2016 #68
You can list all the RW talking points you want ... And, yes they are all RW talking points.... baldguy May 2016 #70

Chasstev365

(5,191 posts)
29. That is all you ever say!
Sun May 29, 2016, 07:10 PM
May 2016

Just to correct you: She wins when she is nominate on the floor of the convention 2 months from now. SHE HAS NOT WON ANYTHING YET!

ProgressiveEconomist

(5,818 posts)
40. You forgot to say, "New
Sun May 29, 2016, 07:53 PM
May 2016

Rules".

The real world is going to stick with the old rules, which on June 7th will have President Obama, Senator Warren, the media, and 99 percent of national and downticket Democrats on Hillary's side against sore-loser crybaby Bernie Sanders. He should have conceded MONTHs ago, when he first fell behind by so many hundreds of delegates that nomination became impossible. That's what other Democratic also-rans have done for decades.

Cobalt Violet

(9,905 posts)
43. I'm just replying to op about the mental gymnatstics of her supporters since that's all they say.
Sun May 29, 2016, 08:53 PM
May 2016

I'm not a Hillary supporter at all. I really can't stand Third Way policies at all.

 

SFnomad

(3,473 posts)
2. Secretary Clinton nearly 300 pledged delegates ahead, 3+ million voters ahead
Sun May 29, 2016, 06:04 PM
May 2016

the people have spoken. No gymnastics required.

AZ Progressive

(3,411 posts)
5. Frontloading, before Bernie was more recognized
Sun May 29, 2016, 06:08 PM
May 2016

A way the system is rigged. Also the constant pressing that Hillary is inevitable. She can't win fairly.

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
16. How did that work out in 2008?
Sun May 29, 2016, 06:23 PM
May 2016

Speaking of mental gymnastics, how to explain Clinton losing to Obama when Clinton has the magic powers to rig the system?

Clinton won fairly except in the bitter minds of some Sanders supporters who can't come to grips with it yet.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
19. Looks like Bernie waited to long to become a Democrat
Sun May 29, 2016, 06:29 PM
May 2016

It takes years and a lot of work to get name recognition.

Dem2

(8,168 posts)
4. There are two Democrats. I like both of them.
Sun May 29, 2016, 06:06 PM
May 2016

I don't attack either candidate because I find them both acceptable and there's more than enough hate in the world.

Joob

(1,065 posts)
7. Mental Gymnastics Numbers 6-12
Sun May 29, 2016, 06:09 PM
May 2016

6. Libya
7. Honduras
8. Iraq vote
9. Election fraud doesn't exist
10. Voter suppression - it's just filthy independents, not people willing to engage with democrats and become one.
11. Horrible trade deals
12. Fracking

 

SFnomad

(3,473 posts)
8. If Secretary Clinton is as poor a choice as you claim, maybe you should be asking the question ...
Sun May 29, 2016, 06:11 PM
May 2016

Why has BS been such a poor candidate? And why is he losing by so much?

And pretending that all his problems are because the DNC is rigged against him and that so many of his supporters were disenfranchised (and that Secretary Clinton's were not) ... is a cop out. That isn't why he is coming in second place.

 

Jester Messiah

(4,711 posts)
33. Well, you say it's a cop-out...
Sun May 29, 2016, 07:26 PM
May 2016

but that doesn't make it so. Massive cheating via DWS is a completely legit answer for why the primaries have turned out as they have.

 

Jester Messiah

(4,711 posts)
50. Yeah, keep on shaking your head.
Sun May 29, 2016, 11:50 PM
May 2016

You've still addressed nothing. Being dismissive doesn't change the facts.

 

SFnomad

(3,473 posts)
60. I'm going to keep #smh and continue to be dismissive, because "massive cheating" didn't happen
Mon May 30, 2016, 12:13 AM
May 2016

and that's a fact. What happened is politics and the rules as they exist. BS knew what they were (or he should have) when he signed up for this. And now a year later, you can't come back and say how unfair those rules were and that they cost him the nomination ... because they didn't. BS cost himself the nomination, BS handicapped himself right from the beginning.

Joob

(1,065 posts)
35. Hehe, sure and the State Department was never used as a tool for it.
Sun May 29, 2016, 07:33 PM
May 2016

And it was never used for weapon deals for people who donated to it, and if that did happen pure Coincidence!

creeksneakers2

(7,476 posts)
39. Yes, Its a coincidence
Sun May 29, 2016, 07:53 PM
May 2016

Saudi Arabia did not donate to the foundation while Hillary was secretary of state. They donated before but then it was not known she was going to be secretary. No quid pro quo was possible

Arms deals are extremely complex and go through many entities. They can take as long as seven years. Most of what happens comes under the Pentagon. Its not as if somebody could take a bribe and just approve one.

The Saudi Arms deal was a major initiative of the entire administration. It started under Bush but was expanded under Obama for two major reasons. First, it was expected to produce 50,000 or 75,000 jobs. This was at a time when the 2008 crash left the country with high unemployment and the arms jobs were among the few that could be produced. The administration also wanted to build a barrier to Iran. The Saudi deal was the largest arms sale ever. It was inconceivable that Hillary wouldn't approve it. Tying the approval to donations to a foundation the Clintons got no direct compensation from is far fetched. Its like a whole city being flooded by a hurricane and somebody saying the flood was caused by someone letting their faucet drip.

The falsehood that Hillary's approval was because of Saudi donations to the foundation comes from an International Business Times article that is full of holes.

Joob

(1,065 posts)
44. Oh of course! They donated before they "knew" !!! duh!! Just like the speeches to the banks!!!!
Sun May 29, 2016, 09:31 PM
May 2016

Who paid for her speeches when she was a "private citizen" !! Forgot to add that too!

Thanks! 9/10 of Mental gymnastics landing!

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
11. Tom Hayden, who will vote for her in CA, says its easy
Sun May 29, 2016, 06:19 PM
May 2016
On Tuesday, Tom Hayden, one of leading dirty hippies that drove Republicans (and Democrats) completely insane in the 1960s wrote a lengthy editorial in The Nation to announce that he was dropping his support of Bernie Sanders and voting for Hillary Clinton in the California primary. While not sparing a critical eye towards Clinton, he explains that despite not being an angel, she has successfully worked within the system for almost 50 years to effect change. According to Hayden, she has the best chance to to both beat the Republicans and advance her agenda through both a hostile Congress and an unsure electorate.

...

But the main reason Hayden says he’s supporting Hillary is that the black community is overwhelmingly supporting her:

"I intend to vote for Hillary Clinton in the California primary for one fundamental reason. It has to do with race. My life since 1960 has been committed to the causes of African Americans, the Chicano movement, the labor movement, and freedom struggles in Vietnam, Cuba and Latin America.

...

What would cause me to turn my back on all those people who have shaped who I am? That would be a transgression on my personal code. I have been on too many freedom rides, too many marches, too many jail cells, and far too many gravesites to breach that trust."

http://leftwingnation.org/civil-rights-legend-tom-hayden-abandons-bernie-for-hillary/

Number23

(24,544 posts)
15. That is huge!!
Sun May 29, 2016, 06:23 PM
May 2016

Truly huge.

What would cause me to turn my back on all those people who have shaped who I am? That would be a transgression on my personal code. I have been on too many freedom rides, too many marches, too many jail cells, and far too many gravesites to breach that trust."


Holy SHIT. That. Is HUGE. Though I just noticed this happened in April.

nolabels

(13,133 posts)
18. When you get old, getting comfortable can be diminishing and sometimes even dangerous
Sun May 29, 2016, 06:28 PM
May 2016

Then again some get so full of themselves they don't even notice it till it's too late

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
28. I know
Sun May 29, 2016, 06:58 PM
May 2016

Bernie is pretty darned old, and it sometimes leads to warped visions of reality and to falling back on old slogans without any comprehension of details.

nolabels

(13,133 posts)
31. But at least he is not trying to sell me to corporations to enlarge his checkbook
Sun May 29, 2016, 07:16 PM
May 2016

My mom is 87, i see her everyday and help her out with whatever she needs. Though some of her capacities have diminished you would still have a hard time finding somebody that has a grudge or something else to hold against her. The solid fact she has been as honest as she could be all her life makes it easy for her.

Trust is not an easy thing to find but is easy to see

It's not what you forget when you get old, it's just the things that you thought you knew.

 

coco77

(1,327 posts)
66. Maybe this country need a little Trump ...
Mon May 30, 2016, 01:13 AM
May 2016

To get everyone back together again. Many who are voting for him need to see who really is shipping their jobs overseas they don't seem to understand. Trump will make them feel better.

JudyM

(29,274 posts)
14. 15 -19
Sun May 29, 2016, 06:22 PM
May 2016

15. She is more progressive than Bernie

16. She is more electable vs Trump than Bernie is

17. Despite the scandalous way she ran the State Dept., and the resulting investigations she is going to be mired in for endless months, she will STILL be "more effective" than Bernie could be.

18. Democrats who are critical of her are secretly right wing or sexist or both.

19. Her Haiti minimum wage hike suppression never happened.

99Forever

(14,524 posts)
20. No shit!
Sun May 29, 2016, 06:30 PM
May 2016

Talk about Pretzel Logic!

Holy crap, you have to be made of rubber to bend that many directions at the same time.

TCJ70

(4,387 posts)
22. Anything that could possibly be seen as negative...
Sun May 29, 2016, 06:36 PM
May 2016

...from stances she's taken to statements she's made in her own words are part of a RW conspiracy.

enid602

(8,652 posts)
24. hack
Sun May 29, 2016, 06:48 PM
May 2016

Bernie would never give over a milllion to someone to buy influence, even if that person is Chuck Todd's wife.


Wall Streeters and bankers are bad. Banks must be broken up. Banks fucked people over. No one, not even the President of Burlington College
would ever fuck over a bank. Or a college. Or the Catholic Church. Or a state development agency.

Bern would never adopt a less than progressive stance on guns just to gain entrance to the Congress.

Bern would never vote for wasteful military pork that benefits his constituents just to get reelected.

Crusty. Old. Opportunistic. Political. Hack.

tandem5

(2,072 posts)
25. 6. She once debated herself and won.
Sun May 29, 2016, 06:50 PM
May 2016

7. A congressional oversight committee accused her of lying and after three years of investigation she decided not to press charges.

8. Her emails have revealed she is so adept at negotiation a Nigerian prince wired her 1.3 million without asking for any upfront costs.

9. She retroactively made one of her pantsuits top secret.

10. She's on a first name basis with the world.

Stay silly my friends!

NJCher

(35,730 posts)
36. our digital diva...
Sun May 29, 2016, 07:37 PM
May 2016

She has the power and authority to de-classify military and other state classified information by telling employers to take off security headers and saying, "Send it to me at home!"

She can use a personal email 'cuz "other people working for State have done it."



Cher

NJCher

(35,730 posts)
38. Oooh! Oooh! How about this one:
Sun May 29, 2016, 07:48 PM
May 2016

Hillary books her rallies into small convention centers because she wants a more intimate setting to speak to her voters.


Cher

 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
41. Pro-death penalty equals progressive.
Sun May 29, 2016, 08:01 PM
May 2016

There's no quid pro quo, not even a potential conflict of interest.

Her real position is the one she stated most recently.

She dodged sniper fire in Bosnia.

Quoting her verbatim is a right-wing attack.

She tries to tell the truth.

She's not influenced by money.

She always remains calm and collected.

This is not her picture.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
45. 21) Bernie bros!
Sun May 29, 2016, 09:55 PM
May 2016

First, a factoid: "In addition to the normal Democratic supporters, Sanders does well among young white males."
From this, a strawman: "Sanders supporters are racists and sexists!" (ignore for the moment, the fact that this strawman is itself inherently a bigoted stereotype)
From that strawman: "Nothing you can do will ever get young white men to stop voting for Republicans".

... which is inherently contradicted by the factoid itself.

Tal Vez

(660 posts)
65. They have to be around there somewhere!!
Mon May 30, 2016, 12:19 AM
May 2016

At least when I can't find my phone, I can dial the number.

barrow-wight

(744 posts)
62. I don't know about those mental gymnastics,
Mon May 30, 2016, 12:14 AM
May 2016

but the mental gymnastics required to believe Bernie has a chance at the nomination are truly olympic-worthy.

GRhodes

(162 posts)
68. Got a few
Mon May 30, 2016, 02:22 AM
May 2016

Before she announced: Citizens United is horrible.
After: Banks being her largest donors over her career and her getting more money from banks this election cycle than all the other candidates combined, her getting filthy rich thanks to large corporations, isn't a concern. She's Hillary, and everyone else are just humans.

The Iraq War was horrible, Bush lied and people died.
She becomes the nominee, and whoopsie, she made a mistake (and continues to, with her continued to support of regime change, and hawkish foreign policy positions).

She won many primaries based on her "electability". Never mind that she was never more electable, polls horribly, does much worse than Sanders versus Trump and is not liked or trusted. Look at their silly justifications for overlooking all that when explaining why they still back her.

Then there's the justifications for all their damn lies, the Berniebros, the outright lies about what happened in Vegas, the "English only" lie. Remember when he hinted at her not being qualified? They went crazy over that fake controversy. None of them would dare to address the horrible, and often racist, things she said in 2008 when running against Obama, and certainly never touched her saying on numerous occasions that she and McCain were qualified and he wasn't (I think she she said on numerous occasions that all he had was a speech). Blatant, constant lying, intentional short term memory, and no damn shame.

 

baldguy

(36,649 posts)
70. You can list all the RW talking points you want ... And, yes they are all RW talking points....
Mon May 30, 2016, 06:03 AM
May 2016

It doesn't change the fact that more Democrats prefer the Democrat, and voted for her.

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