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GreatGazoo

(3,937 posts)
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 06:51 AM Jun 2016

Constructive criticism: Replace Your Ad Agency, Quickly

Last edited Fri Jun 3, 2016, 09:14 AM - Edit history (1)

We need to win in November and while whoever is doing Hillary's ads has been adequate enough to only lose XX out of the last 25 state primaries, we shouldn't take any chances in the GE.

Hillary was in the room when Bin Laden was killed, 8 years in the Whitehouse, been a Senator, Sec of State but instead of running on that strength, someone on Team Hillary has decided that she should try to claim she is an "outsider" because she is female. Don't let your opponent turn your biggest strength into something you are trying to bury. The first woman President will be historic and long overdue but being born female is not something any of us can take credit for -- killing bin Laden is (!)

Recently there was a parody ad that spread like wildfire on social media as a REAL Hillary because few people can tell the difference between her campaign's approved ads:



And this parody ad:



I get that Team Hillary has decided to make this whole race, the primary and the GE, about identity politics. I prefer issues myself but okay. Identity politics should mean that you define the contest in a way that makes people want to attach to your identity. What we have seen so far is too much stick and not enough carrot. They are calling people, including women, "sexist" for not supporting Hillary. They are calling people, including POC, "racist" for not supporting Hillary. That is insulting when you are trying to win people over. More "carrot" would be highlighting the fact that she has more White House experience than anyone to run for President since Al Gore.

Flip the Wall Street thing -- best bull market of our generation was the first Clinton administration 1992 to 2000. She is paid millions of dollars to consult for the biggest investment firms. Would any of these firms ask bankrupt Donald Trump for advice? Hell no. Say that you alone know how to right-size the banks without hurting the economy (even if you have no intention of doing so).

Flip the Email thing -- Say your server was MORE secure than your predecessors'. 'Those who want government to be small enough to 'drown in a bathtub' should understand that it can be impossible to get things done or keep secrets secret in a bloated government beauracracy. My server was small enough to drown in a bathtub. Rather than leave State emails exposed to people like Edward Snowden, I chose to spend my own money to create a server that was more secure and away from leakers. How many of my emails did Edward Snowden leak? ZERO.'

There are so many things her campaign is NOT doing but let me pick one and wrap up. The first rule of politics in general but especially identity politics is

Rule #1 Define Your Opponent (and therefore the choice) In A Way That Favors You


Dangerous Donald (?) Donald Duck the Facts. Deceitful Donald. Donny You're Out of Your Element.... I don't know but let's get something that sticks and puts everything Trump does from now on into a context that contrasts poorly with Hillary. Likely Trump is going to move to the middle -- block him. Get some rhetorical landmines laid down that you can set off when he goes for the middle. For example, go ahead and say in effect ' Donald Trump is an actor, a game show host. He knows how to work the media but he is lying and he is about to tell some of his biggest lies. He is going to claim to be moderate and experienced and successful and not connected to the Mob, not bankrupt, not born on 3rd base' etc.



48 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Constructive criticism: Replace Your Ad Agency, Quickly (Original Post) GreatGazoo Jun 2016 OP
Recommendation: don't put a big lie in your first sentence. "lose 19 of the last 25 state primaries" YouDig Jun 2016 #1
It's all they have left. grossproffit Jun 2016 #4
how many was it? 18? GreatGazoo Jun 2016 #5
Nope. #berniemath YouDig Jun 2016 #6
You're not even in the ballpark. Please see Post 18 DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2016 #20
11 of 25 BainsBane Jun 2016 #34
Clinton has won 7 of the last 11, not including................. George II Jun 2016 #43
Those ads don't look anything like Hillary ads. Agschmid Jun 2016 #2
the top one was created by a supporter, not her agency GreatGazoo Jun 2016 #7
Your point? Agschmid Jun 2016 #8
Yes --THAT is the point. Thank you. GreatGazoo Jun 2016 #10
Probably anyone with a brain. Agschmid Jun 2016 #11
There are those insults again. GreatGazoo Jun 2016 #14
... Agschmid Jun 2016 #17
Points right if you're looking at her, points LEFT if you're BEHIND her. I'm behind her! George II Jun 2016 #44
It is a 2-dimensional graphic GreatGazoo Jun 2016 #47
In a 3-dimensional world. George II Jun 2016 #48
It's so weird that they think the stumbling block to voting for her is her gender. peace13 Jun 2016 #3
while they address those for whom it IS a stumbling block (by calling them out on sexism) GreatGazoo Jun 2016 #9
For me gender is not an issue. peace13 Jun 2016 #12
A female President without a moral compass sets women back one hundred years! peace13 Jun 2016 #41
Makes sense to me: for many, her primary strong point seems to be that she has a vagina. Lizzie Poppet Jun 2016 #30
ding.ding. ding.ding. Thread Winner! 2banon Jun 2016 #46
She's as much an outsider as a white guy that has been in Congress for decades. LexVegas Jun 2016 #13
here reddread Jun 2016 #16
You make a good point but it has nothing to do with the ads. NCTraveler Jun 2016 #15
Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2016 #18
OOooooo hootinholler Jun 2016 #19
I almost forgot that agreeing on numbers is a quagmire. How about GreatGazoo Jun 2016 #22
May we please not move the goalposts DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2016 #23
as I said agreeing on numbers is a quagmire here GreatGazoo Jun 2016 #24
Baby steps. DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2016 #26
Those are not difficult questions BainsBane Jun 2016 #35
Did that man, or will that man, vote for Jill Stein> Fuddnik Jun 2016 #21
Re: "to only lose 19 of the last 25 state primaries" ----- Four Pinocchios n/t SFnomad Jun 2016 #25
changed it for you -- happy now? GreatGazoo Jun 2016 #27
Re: "Happy now?" ---- Really? You're that upset that someone calls you out on easy to verify lies? SFnomad Jun 2016 #29
The guy in the bottom photo has quite a luxuriant beard. auntpurl Jun 2016 #28
As a Portlander... Lizzie Poppet Jun 2016 #31
We've got quite a few in London too. auntpurl Jun 2016 #32
I'm sick of the bullshit BainsBane Jun 2016 #33
She erased the entire history of AIDS activism and handed all credit to the Reagans. You as Bluenorthwest Jun 2016 #39
It's astounding BainsBane Jun 2016 #40
Yes bigwillq Jun 2016 #36
This is fake people so you know :) pinebox Jun 2016 #37
Discussion about strategy, especially media strategy never go well here GreatGazoo Jun 2016 #45
your concern is duly noted nt geek tragedy Jun 2016 #38
Clinton has many ads, videos, etc. Check out all the others, too. George II Jun 2016 #42

George II

(67,782 posts)
43. Clinton has won 7 of the last 11, not including.................
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 03:53 PM
Jun 2016

.....two non-binding primaries in undemocratic caucus states.

In total (not including those two) Clinton has won 27, Sanders only 21.

Clinton has won states representing about 215 million Americans, Sanders only 66 million Americans.

Agschmid

(28,749 posts)
2. Those ads don't look anything like Hillary ads.
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 06:55 AM
Jun 2016

I think the biggest learning here is people believe anything on social media.

GreatGazoo

(3,937 posts)
7. the top one was created by a supporter, not her agency
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 07:09 AM
Jun 2016
The hashtag #ManEnough4Hillary first appeared in late March 2016. The user who tweeted the hashtag added an Instagram photograph to the first tweet


http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton-used-model-from-syphilis-psa/

GreatGazoo

(3,937 posts)
10. Yes --THAT is the point. Thank you.
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 07:26 AM
Jun 2016

Without going to Snopes or elsewhere, how many people could tell you if this was parody or the campaign?



THAT is a problem.

GreatGazoo

(3,937 posts)
14. There are those insults again.
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 08:01 AM
Jun 2016

Losing strategy = insult "anyone with a brain" and the whole "US". Just like Brock paying trolls to insult everyone -- drive people away AND destroys credibility.

Do you know what the flag of imperial Japan looked like? And posters of Chairman Mao? Put those two together, swap Hillary for Mao and bingo!

Same for the red arrow pointing right logo -- confused and a turn-off to Dems. An obvious mistake as they admitted by creating the blue version (still points right though).

It is time for amateur hour to end -- Get rid of that agency and let's get this done correctly.

 

peace13

(11,076 posts)
3. It's so weird that they think the stumbling block to voting for her is her gender.
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 06:56 AM
Jun 2016

1960 here we come.

GreatGazoo

(3,937 posts)
9. while they address those for whom it IS a stumbling block (by calling them out on sexism)
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 07:12 AM
Jun 2016

I really do think her gender is plus. Not her best strength but a strength because it really would be a step forward to have the first female President.

 

peace13

(11,076 posts)
12. For me gender is not an issue.
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 07:40 AM
Jun 2016

In my mind I like to think that a world run by women would be a more peaceful place. What I witnessed from a stage full of women in NE changed my mind. Power corrupts. Women that I once respected appauled me by their loss of temper and forced corruption.

My vote goes to the person who offers respect for the people and the system. This translates into respect around the globe and the possibility of peace.

Have an awesome day!

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
30. Makes sense to me: for many, her primary strong point seems to be that she has a vagina.
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 09:28 AM
Jun 2016

Inane identity politics at its worst...but it's how their heads work.

Hey! I have a vagina, too...and I don't have a record of lying, warmongering, and legal bribe-taking. Dang it, I should have run for president!

 

2banon

(7,321 posts)
46. ding.ding. ding.ding. Thread Winner!
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 04:02 PM
Jun 2016


Hey! I have a vagina, too...and I don't have a record of lying, warmongering, and legal bribe-taking. Dang it, I should have run for president!
 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
15. You make a good point but it has nothing to do with the ads.
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 08:04 AM
Jun 2016

She should focus on education. Far too many are clearly being left behind.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
18. Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 08:22 AM
Jun 2016
We need to win in November and while whoever is doing Hillary's ads has been adequate enough to only lose 19 of the last 25 state primaries,



http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/us/elections/primary-calendar-and-results.html


Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus

hootinholler

(26,449 posts)
19. OOooooo
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 08:34 AM
Jun 2016

Latin! Lends a certain gravitas.

Are you sure you would like to apply that phrase to Hillary? We can go there if you like.

GreatGazoo

(3,937 posts)
22. I almost forgot that agreeing on numbers is a quagmire. How about
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 08:56 AM
Jun 2016

The Clinton Campaign with every advantage in name recognition, media access, DNC support, DWS support and having run 3 presidential campaigns has failed to put away a candidate with limited media access and the DNC working against him.

part of the "why" there is Sanders has run the best ads of the 2016 campaign as confirmed by independent ad biz polls:

Out of the 152 television and digital ads run by presidential candidates or independent super PACs since the middle of July last year, Sanders’ Dec. 28 spot, "Social Security," scored the highest aggregated total across more than half-a-dozen metrics like watchability, relevance and credibility as determined by a politically and demographically balanced panel of 500 people.
...
Here are the top-ranked 2016 presidential campaign ads as determined by Ace Metrix:

Mixed Field

"Social Security," Bernie 2016. Ace Score: 550
"Real Change (Revised)," Bernie 2016. Ace Score: 532
"Works For Us All," Bernie 2016. Ace Score: 523
"Mari," Bernie 2016. Ace Score: 519
"We The People," Carson America. Ace Score: 517
"Real Change," Bernie 2016. Ace Score: 514
"Working Families," Bernie 2016. Ace Score: 512
"Never Quit," Draft Biden. Ace Score: 512
"America: Never Give Up," Kasich for America. Ace Score: 508
"The Bottom 100 Million," Bernie 2016. Ace Score: 504
"Keith," Hillary for America. Ace Score: 504


http://www.campaignlive.com/article/bernie-sanders-effective-political-ads-2016-presidential-race/1379312

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
23. May we please not move the goalposts
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 09:00 AM
Jun 2016
We need to win in November and while whoever is doing Hillary's ads has been adequate enough to only lose 19 of the last 25 state primaries.

-GreatGazoo




http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/us/elections/primary-calendar-and-results.html


Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus


I call on you to heed your better angels and correct the false information contained in your seminal post.

Thank you in advance.


GreatGazoo

(3,937 posts)
24. as I said agreeing on numbers is a quagmire here
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 09:12 AM
Jun 2016

for example who won Nevada? who won Washington? see what I mean. So I'm not going to guess what number the Hillary Bros here want to see there, but since it is such a distraction I will change it to "X".

The ad agency or amateurs who created Hillary's red right arrow logo, the Chairman Mao poster, the "Love trumps hate" line and that weak 'Trump cashed in on the crash' ad should be replaced with more effective professionals. That is my goal post.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
26. Baby steps.
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 09:16 AM
Jun 2016
as I said agreeing on numbers is a quagmire here

for example who won Nevada? who won Washington? see what I mean. So I'm not going to guess what number the Hillary Bros here want to see there, but since it is such a distraction I will change it to "X".



BainsBane

(53,032 posts)
35. Those are not difficult questions
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 10:42 AM
Jun 2016

Clinton won NV, Bernie won Washington. The NY Times, AP, Real Clear Politics, Politico, Washington Post, Bloomberg, all show the delegate counts and the results, and if you want more details you can go to the websites of the Secretaries of State offices in the various states. If you bother to check reliable news sources rather than what random people say on social media, you can get clear answers to certain basic questions.

GreatGazoo

(3,937 posts)
27. changed it for you -- happy now?
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 09:17 AM
Jun 2016

no? Didn't think so but I tried and btw, whoever is doing her ads is ineffective. Let's get a team that can get this thing done.

 

SFnomad

(3,473 posts)
29. Re: "Happy now?" ---- Really? You're that upset that someone calls you out on easy to verify lies?
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 09:24 AM
Jun 2016

It's amazing how some people have to be dragged, kicking and screaming ... to be forced to tell the truth. You do realize that she has won more of the last 25 contests than she has lost ... don't you?

As to her ads, Secretary Clinton has beaten Sanders, she's polling better than tRump (though we all know how unreliable polls this far out are) ... her ad people can't be doing that badly.

auntpurl

(4,311 posts)
28. The guy in the bottom photo has quite a luxuriant beard.
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 09:17 AM
Jun 2016

The ads are clearly not official, but I rather like them.

auntpurl

(4,311 posts)
32. We've got quite a few in London too.
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 09:33 AM
Jun 2016

There's a section of the city called Shoreditch, and they have the beard and moustache look cornered.

?itok=JVd3rI8V

BainsBane

(53,032 posts)
33. I'm sick of the bullshit
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 09:57 AM
Jun 2016

Last edited Fri Jun 3, 2016, 10:43 AM - Edit history (1)

Clinton has not called anyone sexist for not supporting her, and unlike another candidate she hasn't systematically insulted everyone who doesn't support her or criticizes her in anyway. She hasn't denounced AIDS activists and abortion rights activists, or civil rights icons as "establishment." She hasn't dismissed the votes of the most loyal Democratic voting demographic as just the "Confederacy" or not "smart enough." She has t proclaimed her supporters inherently superior to her opponents and suggested that their votes are therefore more worthy. She has specifically and repeatedly said that people shouldn't vote for her because she's a woman but because of her qualifications and policy positions. She has spoken favorably of the enthusiasm of the young people supporting Sanders, and has many times says she thinks it is fantastic that he has inspired young women and men to participate in politics.

There are groups of male supporters who have created slogans such as those you see above, Bros for Her, etc... There are a number of different groups. I'm sorry it upsets you to see men excited about supporting someone who may well be the first woman president in history. While being a woman isn't a principle reason to support Clinton, the US does need to have women included in the presidency, just like it mattered that we finally had a black person as president. For little girls and AA children to see those role models makes a huge difference in what they imagine is possible.

Now I get that some white men feel uncomfortable with the increasing diversity of American society. I get they don't like hearing about the concerns of the majority, something they dismiss as "identity politics." I know some prefer women, people of color and the rest of the non-white male majority would keep quiet about issues particular to them rather than allowing white men to dominate the terms of political discussion. But the fact is other people exist in this country and as much as you want Democrats to ignore them and focus exclusively on you--because you imagine what you care about is universal and the concerns of the rest of society are mere "identity politics," the fact is that isn't going to happen. The Dem Party is comprised overwhelmingly of women and people of color. That means Democrats are going to speak to their concerns, regardless of how meaningless you think they are.

Clinton was never a financial consultant. That claim is totally false and frankly bizarre.

Then the key point you miss is that Clinton's focus has not been on ads. Unlike her opponent for the nomination, she has placed the lions share of resources on organizing. She has discussed lots of issues. She does every time she speaks, and she also has extensive policy discussions on her website. But she also--like ALL DEMOCRATS--makes direct appeals to the various constituent groups that make up the party: women, African Americans, LGBT, union members, Latinos, seniors, etc.... I'm sorry you feel threatened by the images above. You could just avoid looking at them and instead focus on issues, like her foreign policy speech yesterday. That you chose to focus on the glossy images is about you, not her.



 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
39. She erased the entire history of AIDS activism and handed all credit to the Reagans. You as
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 11:26 AM
Jun 2016

a straight person can claim that's not offensive, but it's offensive and she has yet to make proper amends for it. I'm sick of the bullshit where straight Clinton supporters hide behind LGBT while defending historic revisionism that serves Republicans at the expense of LGBT.
Hillary said Reagan was the first AIDS activist. The truth is that the LGBT community was organized years in advance of Reagan even saying the word AIDS and our activists were targeting Donald Trump among others while the rest of the country ignored us, Hillary obviously did not pay any attention, she spent the intervening years legitimizing Trump by attending his events and socializing with him. Now she claims the protests never happened, Reagan was the only brave activist, and her cohort is perfectly fine with that.

What if Hillary and other Democrats had heeded the protests aimed at Trump in the 80's? Would he still be here today? What good are warnings to those who ignore all warnings coming from minority voices? To those who start their history when Reagan says it started?

I'm so sick of this.

BainsBane

(53,032 posts)
40. It's astounding
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 12:53 PM
Jun 2016

how your view toward her has changed completely since this primary started. You argued the exact opposite, in defense of her, before you became a Sanders supporter. In saw you do it on multiple occasions. But now that she had the nerve to defeat Bernie, you attack me based on some errant comment Clinton made months ago.

Clinton made a mistake about Nancy Reagan and apologized right away. Bernie blew off meetings with HIV activists, and when he finally did meet with them lied about their position on a CA ballot initiative. When members of that group pointed them out, he trashed them as being "establishment" and in the pockets of big Pharma, like everyone who dares to disagree with him. So by all means, you keep following Bernie, just don't ever expect him to listen to you and don't you dare disagree with him on anything, or you're under the bus, along with virtually ever other activist and civil rights leader in America. The criteria is not what they do for a cause or the people, but whether they pledge allegiance to Bernie.

That said, your post has absolutely nothing to do with the OP or my response, other than you're pissed off that I had the nerve to mention HIV/AIDs, and you've somehow decided I have no right to talk about because I'm not a gay man, like no one else has any right to think about the issue. The world is full of HIV+ people, most of them straight and a hell of a lot of them women.

You can rage against me and the rest of the 13 million Democratic majority who supported Clinton all you want. I won't be paying attention because my purpose in life is not to serve as a reciprocal for your anger, particularly when you show that even the issues most central to you are infinitely flexible in order to promote Bernie's career.

 

pinebox

(5,761 posts)
37. This is fake people so you know :)
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 10:43 AM
Jun 2016

This isn't official Hillary material. There was a huge thread on this a couple weeks ago. The guy in second photo is a model on royalty free photo stock sites. The meme was made by Hillary Twitter supporters.

I know you said "parody" in your text but needed to headline that so people who don't bother to read and only see the pics don't jump the shark

GreatGazoo

(3,937 posts)
45. Discussion about strategy, especially media strategy never go well here
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 04:02 PM
Jun 2016

and I have so many on ignore now that I miss some threads entirely.

After the red right arrow logo, lovetrumpshate and the Chairman Mao poster I could easily believe that "man enuff 2 to vote 4 Hillary" was done by the same people.

And yes, note to self: if you are going to put big pictures in an OP don't expect people to read much.

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