Hmm...

My term would be "soft numbers".

For some reason. Bernie's supporters have no idea how much pain that word had caused people in their lives.

You might be a socialist


All these folks complaining that health care reform is socialistic got me to thinking. It occurs to me that:

You might be a socialist if you ever had to call the police.

You might be a socialist if you ever summoned the fire department.

You might be a socialist if you ever drove your car on a public street or walked on a public sidewalk.

You might be a socialist if you use a municipal sewer service.

You might be a socialist if you get your water from a public water system.

You might be a socialist if you get your electric power from a public utility district.

You might be a socialist if you ever use a public library.

You might be a socialist if you have ever or plan to ever accept a social security check.

You might be a socialist if you use or plan to use Medicare or Medicaid.

You might be a socialist if you or your children attended public school.

You might be a socialist if you ever ride public transit.

You might be a socialist if your bank account is insured by the FDIC.

You might be a socialist if your or a member of your family went to college on a government subsidized student loan.

You might be a socialist if you ever took a trip on AMTRAK.

You might be a socialist if you ever needed the services of a fire department ambulance and EMT.

You might be a socialist if you have sent or received mail via the US Post Office.

You might be a socialist if you were ever represented in a legal matter by a public defender.

You might be a socialist if you ever referred a child to a child welfare office for protection.

You might be a socialist if you ever used electric power produced by Federally built dams.

You might be a socialist if you ever filed suit in a Federal, County, or City court.

You might be a socialist if you ever used a Federal, state, or city park.

You might be a socialist if you have ever used a public swimming pool.

You might be a socialist if you ever sought the help of a government official in solving a problem.

You might be a socialist if you ever benefited from the government regulation of private business.

You might be a socialist if you have benefited from the services of the CDC, FAA, FTSB, or other government agency.

You might be a socialist if your rights and safety have ever been defended by the armed forces.

You might be a socialist if you or a family member has ever been rescued by the Coast Guard or National Guard.

You might be a socialist if an airplane you flew on was guided to a safe landing by an air traffic controller.

You might be a socialist if felons in your area are placed in prison and the criminally insane in asylums.

You might be a socialist if you use the internet, a system developed originally by the U.S. military and scientific groups.

You might be a socialist if you have benefited in any way from research conducted by public universities.

You might be a socialist if you or any of your family have attended a public university or community college.

You might be a socialist if local public employees have cleared your streets of snow, picked up your litter, repaired potholes, or
any of hundreds of other necessary tasks.

You might be a socialist if a local municipal garbage service has carried off your trash and your recyclables

You might be a socialist if state or local forestry workers have fought forest fires and maintained healthy forests in your area.

You might be a socialist if state and federal fishery workers have tried to save endangered salmon so you can continue to eat
them.

You might be a socialist if you have been involved in a natural disaster and received help from a federal or state disaster relief
programs.

You might be a socialist if you have ever supported the passage of a law that requires or bans activities by your fellow citizens
which respectively benefit or harm you.

You might be a socialist if you own or work for any business that receives government subsidies or receives tax breaks for
locating in particular areas.

You might be a socialist if you attend your favorite pro team’s games in their partially tax funded parks, stadium, or arena.

You might be a socialist if you attend the games of a state college athletic team.

You might be a socialist if you invest in government securities like savings bonds or T bills.

You might be a socialist if you are a public employee.

You might be a socialist if you accepted the tax write off for buying a new home recently offered by the government.

You might be a socialist if you acquired a new car under the Cash for Clunkers program.

You might be a socialist if you have ever supported the document which begins: “We the people of the United States, in order to
form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general
welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United
States of America.”

In short, you might be a socialist if you accept any service, program, or benefit that is supported in whole or in part by tax
money.

I’m sure all those good folks protesting government programs like health care because they are socialistic will lead by example
and forswear using all of the above socialistic agenda items and any others that may have been omitted.

Even Adam Smith, the father of the invisible hand theory or economics, believed a nation needed some kind of publicly funded infrastructure.

Hillary has almost as high unfavorable as trump. 67% of democrats think she's a liar. Republicans despise her with the intensity of a thousand white hot suns. Independents do not like her and will NoT vote for her. To follow your argument is to ignore every single poll leading to this moment. Trump is either tied or winning nationally against her. How could a batshit crazy idiot be tied with her if she's so great? You got it all exactly backward.

Most voters over 55, even if Democrat, will never vote for a socialist. Never.

We are now seeing 'Unskewed Polls' the HRC version.

"Bernie's Bolshevik Baggage". That would be the drumbeat were he to be the nominee. That Joe McCarthy playbook is still up on the shelf to be dusted off at will. Even Hillary is summarily labeled by the right as being a "leftist radical". One could only imagine what would get thrown Bernie's way, and how it would impact his poll numbers.

Way easier than Clinton, who has, in the last 30 years, demonstrated that she knows how to take a punch.

Bernie Sanders as GOP Tool: Their Plan to Use Him Against Democrats
- See more at: http://www.rollcall.com/news/home/gop-will-use-bernie-sanders-democrats#sthash.XUPf4qII.dpuf

Republicans Run Ad Against Sanders – Because They Want Him to Win
The so-called ‘dog whistle’ ad is meant to fire up Sanders' supporters and help defeat Hillary Clinton. http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-01-26/republicans-run-ad-against-sanders-because-they-want-him-to-win

Republican Operatives Try to Help Bernie Sanders
“Picking your opponent” is an age-old political manipulation tactic. http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-01-19/republican-operatives-are-trying-to-help-bernie-sanders

Of course the right will attack Sanders in a GE campaign. Sanders, though, has four huge advantages over Hillary. First, the obvious, he is not under criminal investigation by the FBI. The repubs cannot paint him as crook.

Second, independents for the most part like Sanders much more than either Hillary or trump. Hillary and trump have huge negatives. Bernie not at all. And Hillary's negatives are set in concrete. People aren't going to suddenly like her or trust her in a GE campaign. The polls on negatives ARE NOT MEANINGLESS. They are crucial to understanding the parameters of the race.

Third, the repubs main line of attack against Sanders will have to be that he is a dangerous "Socialist". Now, twenty years ago that might have had some impact. But, they've called every Democrat since forever a socialist and that attack has proved weak. Remember how they tried it on Obama? The only people that attack work with are the already committed right wing base. The success among independents would be minimal.

Fourth, Sanders is a change candidate. And in this election cycle that has a powerful resonance. Hillary is the status quo, Democratic establishment candidate. She's not going to generate any enthusiasm except among her already committed Democratic fans. Sanders will excite many independents and bring in new voters.

and who knows what else. It wouldn't be pretty.

In fact every bit of evidence to this point in time points to the contrary of your claim. You have nothing but innuendo. Here are some facts.


1) Bernie already polls better against Trump than Hillary in state after state, so somebody has to be paying attention. I don't think there's a swing state that Hillary does better than Bernie against Trump.


2) Bernie Has had a year to build his positive brand free of Republican attacks. He won't win the nomination until July at the earliest, which gives Republicans a total of 4 months to counter his 18 months of positive name building. You're sure they're going to tear him down in that time, but there's very little to actually attack him on. He loves being attacked on the socialism charge because it gives him a means to address his platform. That's the last thing the Republicans want.


3) You talk about Hillary already weathering the storm and being battle tested, but her ratings are in the toilet (especially among Independents). Bernie would have to fall like an asteroid just to reach where she's at in negative favorability. She is going into the GE from an awful position, he is going in from a great position.


4) He has been getting attacked on the Democratic side for a year now and his favorability has only grown as he has become more known. Meanwhile Hillary's has plummeted (especially among the all important Independents for the GE).


5) He has run multiple races in Vermont as a Democratic socialist (It's not like this is a new platform for him). And the last race was a very expensive, very negative campaign by his Republican challenger. Bernie won over 70% of the vote. In the presidential primary election against a Democrat he won over 80% of the vote in his home state. Vermont may not mirror the rest of the country in the Democratic primary, but it definitely mirrors the very white Republican side and to a great extent the Independent votes. Large swaths of Republicans and Independents vote for him every election in Vermont, and they know him better than anyone (good and bad).


6) Bernie has absolutely destroyed Hillary on the Independent vote during the primary season, winning it virtually all over the country, even in the deep south where she won her primaries by large margins. He has consistently won as many or more Independents than Donald Trump has won in the Republican primary, proving he's a match for him in that category all over the country and particularly in swing states.


7) Bernie's greatest strength is his honesty and consistency. His peers in the house and senate who are on the other side respect him for being straight forward with them even when they disagree with him. His platform doesn't change just with the wind, or hardly even over time. Honesty and consistency plays very well with everyone. People want to vote for people who are authentic (even if they just seem authentic, which Bernie doesn't have to fake).


8) Once you get past labels, the majority of the population agrees with the majority of Bernie's agenda. Most people believe inequality is a major issue. Most people are angry over the bank bailouts and lack of prosecutions. Most people are sick of the wars and imperialism our country uses. Most people believe health care is too costly. Most people believe higher education is too costly. There might be wide variances across the political spectrum in how people believe they should be fixed, but most everyone agrees these are issues. Bernie not only talks about these issues, he aggressively attacks them. People follow strong leaders, not leaders who wait to see what can be accomplished or how polling shows they should proceed. Triangulation has garnered us nothing but lost congresses and lost states.


9) This is a very anti-establishment year in politics. Independents in particular, and parts of the two parties, are sick of how things are going. It's a major reason Trump has resonated with people in spite of his vile hatred. Hillary, whether you like it or not, is the epitome of establishment. Bernie is the only anti-establishment candidate we have running, or even in our deck. This is no fault of Hillary's, but it will play a part in the general election.


10) Bernie has a legion of very enthusiastic supporters who shoot down the lies against him in a matter of minutes or hours, not days or weeks as used to happen. The old saying is "A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes". But now there's rapid response teams sitting at the starting line just waiting on the lies to take off. Brock has been trying to tear him down for months and nothing has come close to sticking. Contrary to what you're wanting to imply, the Republican establishment isn't smarter or more ruthless than the Democratic establishment.

11) Bernie isn't under investigation by the FBI. There is no built in corruption charge to go after him on.

Again, you've got innuendo and gut feelings, but there is no evidence to back up your claim.

Spot on

And I'll feel bad for them as soon as Bernie clinches the nomination.

Because Bernie cannot win without Hillary supporters, and vice-versa/

The only numbers we have say it's so, but I don't think polling now can tell us much. No matter who our nominee is, both candidates will be working to defeat Trump ( or whatever other chucklead the Rs nominate).

This has been obvious from the first, provided you use your head for something beside a hat rack. Yeah, It's an old joke, I know, I'm an old guy.

Of ALL the numerous pro Hillary polls posted here on DU, none even can come close to claiming the CONSISTENCY of the national polls showing Trump LOSING to Bernie and BEATING Hillary. How many straight months now have polls reflected exactly this?

I regret that all the words to convey toughness are gender biased: "brass ones" "balls", "a set", "cojones" because if anybody can come away from watching Hillary Clinton's vivisection of Donald Trump yesterday and doesn't believe she possesses all of those characteristics in abundance they are being dishonest with themselves.

They've done the "socialist", the "pie in the sky", the "hippie", etc. they have gone after him. Not to mention all of Hillary's lies and smears.

No, the voters have gotten the message loud and clear and they have been telling everyone just as loud and clear in all the polls. BERNIE beats Trump by LARGE margins in ALL the polls for months.
Hillary DOES NOT.

Spin it any way that makes you feel good about yourself but THOSE are the facts spoken out by the VOTERS.

Bernie has been ignored by much of the right-wing media, or has been favorably reported as having really huge crowds and shown saying that Hillary has such and such a problem, but seldom has he been criticized in the way that Hillary has been criticized. To pretend otherwise is not helping Bernie's cause in the least.