2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHillary's Speech REMARKABLY SIMILAR To Romney's Trump Speech
More proof that Hillary's speech was an epic fail. It is nearly concept-for-concept (in order) the same shit Romney said about Trump.
What happened to Romney as a result of that speech again? Oh right.
The similarities on some of these excerpts are quite frightening. But what's even more damning is the conceptual order of the speech is almost identical.
Anyways, here is the point-by-point comparison, ideas in order from Hillary's speech:
1. Beginning concept: Two paths for America:
Romney: "He saw two paths for America, one that embraced conservative principles, dedicated to lifting people out of poverty and helping create opportunity for all. And the other, an oppressive government that would lead America down a darker, less free path. "
Hillary: "Its a choice between a fearful America thats less secure and less engaged with the world, and a strong, confident America that leads to keep our country safe and our economy growing."
2. Gravity of Choice:
Romney: "we face another time for choosing, one that will have profound consequences for the Republican Party, and more importantly, for our country. I say this, in part, because of my conviction that America is poised to lead the world for another century."
Hillary: "Because as you know so well, Americans arent just electing a President in November. Were choosing our next commander-in-chief the person we count on to decide questions of war and peace, life and death."
3. Trump is Dangerous:
Romney: " If we Republicans choose Donald Trump as our nominee, the prospects for a safe and prosperous future are greatly diminished."
Hillary: "Donald Trumps ideas arent just different they are dangerously incoherent."
4. Trump Doesn't Have the Temperament to Be President:
Romney: "Now, Im far from the first to conclude that Donald Trump lacks the temperament to be president. ...Hes not of the temperament of the kind of stable, thoughtful person we need as a leader. ...He has neither the temperament nor the judgment to be president and his personal qualities would mean that America would cease to be a shining city on a hill."
Hillary: "He is not just unprepared he is temperamentally unfit to hold an office that requires knowledge, stability and immense responsibility. ... That brings me to the final point I want to make today the temperament it takes to be Commander-in-Chief."
5. Trump is Too Big A Risk to National Security:
Romney: "Now let me turn to national security and the safety of our homes and loved ones. Mr. Trumps bombast is already alarming the allies and fueling the enmity of our enemies. Insulting all Muslims will keep many of them from fully engaging with us in the urgent fight against ISIS, and for what purpose? Muslim terrorists would only have to lie about their religion to enter the country. ... This recklessness is recklessness in the extreme."
Hillary: "We cannot put the security of our children and grandchildren in Donald Trumps hands. We cannot let him roll the dice with America. This is a man who said that more countries should have nuclear weapons, including Saudi Arabia. ... He has said that he would order our military to carry out torture and the murder of civilians who are related to suspected terrorists "
6. Trump Says He's Smart, but He's Not
Romney: "Now, Donald Trump tells us that he is very, very smart. Im afraid that when it comes to foreign policy he is very, very not smart."
Hillary: "He says he doesnt have to listen to our generals or our admirals, our ambassadors and other high officials, because he has quote a very good brain. He also said, I know more about ISIS than the generals do, believe me. You know what? I dont believe him."
7. Trump Would Cause Economic Catastrophe
Romney: "His proposed 35 percent tariff-like penalties would instigate a trade war and that would raise prices for consumers, kill our export jobs and lead entrepreneurs and businesses of all stripes to flee America. ... So even though Donald Trump has offered very few specific economic plans, what little he has said is enough to know that he would be very bad for American workers and for American families."
Hillary: "He believes we can treat the U.S. economy like one of his casinos and default on our debts to the rest of the world, which would cause an economic catastrophe far worse than anything we experienced in 2008."
8. Trump Denigrates McCain, Praise Putin
Romney: "While at the same time, John McCain, whom he has mocked, was imprisoned and tortured. ... Donald Trump says he admires Vladimir Putin, at the same time he has called George W. Bush a liar. "
Hillary: "he has the gall to say that prisoners of war like John McCain arent heroes. Exactly. He praises dictators like Vladimir Putin and picks fights with our friends"
9. Hillary Touts Her Experience / Romney Denigrate is -- one of the few places the speeches are different. But the topic is the same.
Romney: "Now, Mr. Trump relishes any poll that reflects what he thinks of himself. But polls are also saying that he will lose to Hillary Clinton. Think about that. On Hillary Clintons watch, the State Department, when she was guiding it and part of the Obama administration, that State Department watched as Americas interests were diminished at every corner of the world...."
Hillary: "Unlike him, I have some experience with the tough calls and the hard work of statecraft. I wrestled with the Chinese over a climate deal in Copenhagen, brokered a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas, negotiated the reduction of nuclear weapons with Russia, twisted arms to bring the world together in global sanctions against Iran, and stood up for the rights of women, religious minorities and LGBT people around the world...."
10. Trump Would Balloon The Debt:
Romney: "His tax plan in combination with his refusal to reform entitlements and honestly address spending would balloon the deficit and the national debt. So even though Donald Trump has offered very few specific economic plans, what little he has said is enough to know that he would be very bad for American workers and for American families."
Hillary: "Compare that with what Trump wants to do. His economic plans would add more than $30 trillion thats trillion with a t $30 trillion to our national debt over the next 20 years. He has no ideas on education. No ideas on innovation. He has a lot of ideas about who to blame, but no clue about what to do."
11. America is Faced With Real Threats
Romney: "Now, that doesnt mean we dont have real problems and serious challenges. We do. At home, poverty persists. And wages are stagnant. The horrific massacres of Paris and San Bernardino. The nuclear ambitions of the Iranian mullahs. The aggressions of Putin. The growing assertiveness of China and the nuclear tests of North Korea confirm that we live in troubled and dangerous times.
But if we make the right choices, Americas future will be even better than our past and better than our present."
Hillary: "Take the threat posed by North Korea perhaps the most repressive regime on the planet, run by a sadistic dictator who wants to develop long-range missiles that could carry a nuclear weapon to the United States....Now Moscow and Beijing are deeply envious of our alliances around the world, because they have nothing to match them. Theyd love for us to elect a President who would jeopardize that source of strength. If Donald gets his way, theyll be celebrating in the Kremlin."
12. Trump's Experience As a Businessman Isn't Enough
Romney: "A business genius he is not.
Now, not every policy that Donald Trump has floated is bad, of course. He wants to repeal and replace Obamacare. He wants to bring jobs home from China and Japan. But his prescriptions to do those things are flimsy at best. At the last debate, all he could remember about his health care plan was to remove insurance boundaries between states. Successfully bringing jobs home requires serious policy and reforms that make America the place businesses want to come, want to plant and want to grow. You cant punish business into doing what you want."
Hillary: "So then what? War? Telling the world, good luck, you deal with Iran? Of course Trump doesnt have answers to those questions. Donald Trump doesnt know the first thing about Iran or its nuclear program. Ask him. Itll become very clear, very quickly.
Theres no risk of people losing their lives if you blow up a golf-course deal. But it doesnt work like that in world affairs. Just like being interviewed on the same episode of 60 Minutes as Putin was, is not the same thing as actually dealing with Putin.
So the stakes in global statecraft are infinitely higher and more complex than in the world of luxury hotels. We all know the tools Donald Trump brings to the table bragging, mocking, composing nasty tweets Im willing to bet hes writing a few right now. But those tools wont do the trick. Rather than solving global crises, he would create new ones."
13. Trump Would Start A Trade War
Romney: "His proposed 35 percent tariff-like penalties would instigate a trade war and that would raise prices for consumers, kill our export jobs and lead entrepreneurs and businesses of all stripes to flee America."
Hillary: "The key was never forgetting who we were dealing with not friends or allies, but countries that share some common interests with us amid many disagreements. Donald doesnt see the complexity. He wants to start a trade war with China. And I understand a lot of Americans have concerns about our trade agreements I do too. But a trade war is something very different. "
14. Trump Admires Bullying Dictators:
Romney: "Donald Trump says he admires Vladimir Putin, at the same time he has called George W. Bush a liar. That is a twisted example of evil trumping good. The bullying, the greed, the showing off, the misogyny, the absurd third grade theatrics. You know, we have long referred to him as The Donald. "
Hillary: "And I have to say, I dont understand Donalds bizarre fascination with dictators and strongmen who have no love for America. He praised China for the Tiananmen Square massacre; he said it showed strength. He said, Youve got to give Kim Jong Un credit for taking over North Korea something he did by murdering everyone he saw as a threat, including his own uncle, which Donald described gleefully, like he was recapping an action movie. And he said if he were grading Vladimir Putin as a leader, hed give him an A. Now, Ill leave it to the psychiatrists to explain his affection for tyrants."
15. Trump Has No Plan for Terrorism / ISIS
Romney: "And then what he said about on 60 Minutes. Did you hear this? It was about Syria and ISIS, and it has to go down as the most ridiculous and dangerous idea of the entire campaign season. Let ISIS take out Assad, he said, and then we can pick up the remnants. Now, think about that. Let the most dangerous terror organization the world has ever known take over an entire country? This recklessness is recklessness in the extreme."
Hillary: " is my plan for defeating ISIS.
Whats Trumps? ... Just look at the few things hes actually said on the subject.
Hes actually said and I quote maybe Syria should be a free zone for ISIS. Oh, okay let a terrorist group have control of a major country in the Middle East. Its clear he doesnt have a clue what hes talking about. So we cant be certain which of these things he would do. But we can be certain that hes capable of doing any or all of them. Letting ISIS run wild. Launching a nuclear attack. Starting a ground war. These are all distinct possibilities with Donald Trump in charge....A Trump Presidency would embolden ISIS. We cannot take that risk."
16. Trump Would Be a Terrible Moral Example To The Children
Romney: "The president and, yes, even the nominees of the countrys great parties helped define America to billions of people around the world. All of them bear the responsibility of being an example for our children and our grandchildren.
Think of Donald Trumps personal qualities. The bullying, the greed, the showing off, the misogyny, the absurd third grade theatrics. You know, we have long referred to him as The Donald. Hes the only person in the entire country to whom we have added an article before his name, and it was not because he had attributes we admired. Now, imagine your children and your grandchildren acting the way he does. Would you welcome that? Havent we seen before what happens when people in prominent positions fail the basic responsibility of honorable conduct? We have. And it always injures our families and our country."
Hillary: "And it also matters when he makes fun of disabled people, calls women pigs, proposes banning an entire religion from our country, or plays coy with white supremacists. America stands up to countries that treat women like animals, or people of different races, religions or ethnicities as less human. What happens to the moral example we set for the world and for our own children if our President engages in bigotry? And by the way, Mr. Trump every time you insult American Muslims or Mexican immigrants, remember that plenty of Muslims and immigrants serve and fight in our armed forces."
17. In Summary, Don't Destroy The Great Image Of America With A President Trump
Romney: "Mr. Trump is directing our anger for less than noble purposes. He creates scapegoats of Muslims and Mexican immigrants. He calls for the use of torture. He calls for killing the innocent children and family members of terrorists. He cheers assaults on protesters. He applauds the prospect of twisting the Constitution to limit First Amendment freedom of the press.
This is the very brand of anger that has led other nations into the abyss. Heres what I know. Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud. His promises are as worthless as a degree from Trump University. Hes playing the members of the American public for suckers. He gets a free ride to the White House and all we get is a lousy hat. His domestic policies would lead to recession. His foreign policies would make America and the world less safe. He has neither the temperament nor the judgment to be president and his personal qualities would mean that America would cease to be a shining city on a hill. Im convinced America has greatness ahead. And this is a time for choosing. God bless us to choose a nominee who will make that vision a reality. Thank you and God bless you all."
Hillary: "Because making Donald Trump our commander-in-chief would be a historic mistake. It would undo so much of the work that Republicans and Democrats alike have done over many decades to make America stronger and more secure. It would set back our standing in the world more than anything in recent memory. And it would fuel an ugly narrative about who we are that were fearful, not confident; that we want to let others determine our future for us, instead of shaping our own destiny.
Thats not the America I know and love.
...
There is no challenge we cant meet, no goal we cant achieve when we each do our part and come together as one nation.
Every lesson from our history teaches us that we are stronger together. We remember that every Memorial Day.
This election is a choice between two very different visions of America.
One thats angry, afraid, and based on the idea that America is fundamentally weak and in decline.
The other is hopeful, generous, and confident in the knowledge that America is great just like we always have been.
Lets resolve that we can be greater still. That is what I believe in my heart.
...
I love this country and I know you do too. Its been an honor and a privilege to serve America and Im going to do everything I can to protect our nation, and make sure we dont lose sight of how strong we really are.
Thank you all very much."
For Shit And Giggles, WORD CLOUDS!
Finally, to show just how similar these are, I put both transcripts into a word cloud with the same settings and you can see they are just too damn close to be coincidental.
Romney's Speech Word Cloud:
Hillary's Speech Word Cloud:
DCBob
(24,689 posts)CanadaexPat
(496 posts)YouDig
(2,280 posts)still_one
(92,190 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)AzDar
(14,023 posts)firebrand80
(2,760 posts)The GE audience is very different from the GOP primary audience. That's why Hillary's speech succeeded where Romney's failed.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)And then there clearly is "other".
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)not even surprised in the slightest
firebrand80
(2,760 posts)But you already know that
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)That's for sure.
Response to berni_mccoy (Original post)
emulatorloo This message was self-deleted by its author.
Happyhippychick
(8,379 posts)Tal Vez
(660 posts)What it means to me is that Trump has not changed a whit since Romney described him. He is what he is.
And, I don't care what the question might be, I know that the correct answer is not President Trump.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
emulatorloo
(44,124 posts)Then you can can compare them to Romney's cloud, and draw some more false equivalencies.
senz
(11,945 posts)emulatorloo
(44,124 posts)Bernie is much closer to me ideologically than any candidate we've had in a very very long time.
In my lifetime, not since McGovern.
I supported Edwards in '08 as he was the only candidate talking about poverty.
However I have no use for bullshit false equivalencies such as the one presented by this OP.
Nor does Bernie as far as I can tell.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Jeebus, the long knives are out! And you are a good, well-respected DUer.
Blue_Adept
(6,399 posts)There are gradients within Sanders supporters. A good many of them aren't quite to the extreme as some others within the vocal minority.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)and this includes the one from a supposed Bernie fan that was just deleted by its author.
frylock
(34,825 posts)The same folks who were obsessed with POPEGHAZI!!! for almost 3 full weeks.
Glad you're here, frylock. It's getting nuttier by the hour.
frylock
(34,825 posts)Trying to stick around long enough for the Indictment Fairy welcoming ceremony. I'm on the committee, and I'd hate to miss out on that.
berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)blue neen
(12,321 posts)Sorry that you're not one of them.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Feel better! xo
Orsino
(37,428 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)with her looking all Presidential yesterday. Pissed off donnie and you - a very good day indeed.
nichomachus
(12,754 posts)Good to see you all got the memo from headquarters.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)I've been here over 10 years and supported Hillary in 2004 also. Whining that everyone who supports her is getting paid is pathetic bullshit. It's no wonder it's what you've been reduced to.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)Hang in there, berni. You are a patriot and I honor you.
Hill Folk need to read your excellent Jonathan Turley OP. It's about them.
tonyt53
(5,737 posts)He claimed to be a conscientious objector, knowing that he would be turned down, but it bought him time because he knew he would be too old by the time it worked through the system. Hell, at least Bill Clinton had an education deferment, plus a very high draft number. Patriot and Bernie Sanders should never be spoken unless "isn't" is between the word/name.
Matt_in_STL
(1,446 posts)Very conveniently I might add, to include the fact that he protested against the war in London while the war was raging on.
senz
(11,945 posts)Bernie Sanders stands for the values that made this country good and great. He has spent his life serving those values. Bill and Hill stand for corporations and exclusive pockets of great wealth and power. They are part of what has torn this country down so that regular people no longer feel secure, hopeful, and connected at a deep level to America. Bill and Hill are not connected to the rest of us. We are cheap labor and expendable troops to them.
Vietnam was not a noble war. It was not fought to defend this country. It was a mistake. Many fine young people went to that bogus war and many fine young people resisted it. My husband had a high draft number but we had an agreement that if his number came up we would head for Canada.
tonyt53
(5,737 posts)I had a low draft number, but had sole survivor status as my brothers were both serving in Vietnam. I joined after I graduated college and was there when it all ended. To have run would have dishonorable to me. Noble or not, others served and I was no better than them so I served too.
Oh, and about those values of Bernie, he backed regime change actions in Iraq in 1998.
berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)things must be getting pretty dark and desperate over at Camp Weathervane. The story about SDs switching if she loses CA must have really sent some shockwaves through her support network.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Just a couple more weeks!
Are you ready! YOU CAN DO IT
berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)Hillary were to become the nominee
Even if Hillary were to win the Presidency
A Hil-fan I will never be.
And don't think I'm going anywhere, nor will I ever stop showing where she is wrong or deserves criticism.
senz
(11,945 posts)But it is hard wading through all the garbage.
Thank you so much for putting up some excellent OPs -- even if they do get mud-splattered from the desperados. I think the truth within them comes through.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)Break up the big banks!! That will fix everything!!
Orangepeel
(13,933 posts)Blue_Adept
(6,399 posts)hell, I don't even have enough time to read it. But it's probably like most of what you've written in the last few weeks which is a step or two away from unhinged towards one of the two Democratic candidates.
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)SharonClark
(10,014 posts)berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)polio2
(98 posts)Notice how she and her surrogates first started off with the Trump University Attack earlier this week. Technically the playbook was already released by Politico 3 months ago in early March, the Judge re-released it, but it's the same old information, nothing new, just blown up as a tactical strategy to repeat the rubio/romney strategy.
politicaljunkie41910
(3,335 posts)I don't think the two are similar at all in spite of what your word cloud says. Thank God I can read for myself and don't have to rely on other's opinions or technology to tell me what to think, or how to interpret what I hear or read.
berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)similar.
polio2
(98 posts)the same thursday, 3 months ago.
senz
(11,945 posts)politicaljunkie41910
(3,335 posts)You implied that she may have copied her speech from Romney which is why I took the time to read each one and I came to a different conclusion than you, and your word cloud. It just goes to show that technology has its usefulness, but also its limitations.
berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)There are many ways to take down trump. But going in the same order with the same points... There are clear indicators of "borrowing" here.
Response to berni_mccoy (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
felix_numinous
(5,198 posts)to recognize stock speeches from 'both' sides?
Scuba
(53,475 posts)Lord Magus
(1,999 posts)Even a Republican can sometimes tell the truth, it just rarely suits them to do so.