2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSanders Campaign Prepares For Run As An Independent
In a move sure to shake the Democrat party to its core Bernie Sanders campaign is not yet done fighting their revolution against the establishment.A quiet burst of activity from the Sanders campaign seems to all but guarantee that Sanders will run as an independent this election cycle. All across the country Sanders core infrastructure of volunteers and paid staff are mobilizing to collect signatures and perform necessary paperwork to get him on the general election ballots in the states.
http://www.aldipest.com/sanders-campaign-prepares-run-independent/
Response to davidlynch (Original post)
Post removed
scscholar
(2,902 posts)would serve him right.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)primary, his limited thinking and actually having to play hard ball, instead of being coddled, and the in our face lie and using our party to diss for a year only to turn around and try and steal votes, ..... He will have a very limited following.
bvf
(6,604 posts)HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)Yje hate goes deep with you, doesn't it.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)NWCorona
(8,541 posts)They_Live
(3,236 posts)RUDE.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)Then you're the one with a problem.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)I don't think he'd run in 2024.
Skinner
(63,645 posts)He has said repeatedly he won't run as an independent.
davidlynch
(644 posts)Yet, given the totality of the voting irregularities (in California particularly), the situation in Las Vegas, tricks by mainstream media such as the premature call by AP/Comcast, together these tricks inoculate Sanders from the accusation that he'd be going back on his word. He could pass the straight-face test by saying that he was naive, thinking that the Democratic nomination process would be fair.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)him, but to his most devoted base.
davidlynch
(644 posts)in California? If not, learn about it and post back here what you find.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)including my own, to not have any issues with voting.
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)Yeah. I believe that.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)He could make a solid case we have been swindled.
But I think the D party is gonna wise up and nominate Bernie.
Lord Magus
(1,999 posts)Oh and the AP has no connection whatsoever to Comcast.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)cheated him out of a fair race over and over, he owes them nothing.
Gman
(24,780 posts)Karma13612
(4,552 posts)mythology
(9,527 posts)The election wasn't rigged. He lost.
And the party was more than generous to let a guy who has called it ideologically bankrupt and said he would be a hypocrite to run as a Democrat run as a member of the party.
HarmonyRockets
(397 posts)on independents and how they spoil elections. He was very harsh on Nader for spoiling the 2000 election. Are you telling me he is going to backtrack on this and try to spoil the election for Clinton and hand it over to Trump just because he is mad at the Democratic Party and the media? As a big Bernie fan I refuse to believe Bernie is that selfish and petty. There's no way in hell Bernie would be ok with getting Trump elected so he could "punish" the party for supposedly being unfair to him. That would just be asinine.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)usually Bernie knows the facts. And the story that Nader spoiled the race in 2000 is myth, pure and simple. Gore messed it up all by himself. A group of newspapers counted all the ballots from Florida. And no matter which way they did it, chads, no chads, Gore got the most votes. The only way he would have lost is if they had just recounted the counties he suggested.
So, no, Nader didn't spoil it.
I am surprised at how many are sucked in by talking points.
HarmonyRockets
(397 posts)Bernie talked about spoilers and Nader in a TYT interview about a week ago. And Nader being a spoiler in 2000 isn't even a matter of debate. The number of people who voted for him in Florida was much larger than the margin of victory for Bush. Meaning if even a fraction of Nader voters had the sense to vote for Gore, than Gore would have won and the whole situation with Florida would have been avoided in the first place. The same could have been said for New Hampshire. Even if you want to deny that about 2000, it's just basic math and logic that a liberal third party run will split votes on the left. Those are votes that could have gone to the candidate with the chance to defeat the Republican. It's shocking that any normal adult wouldn't be able to understand that concept.
onecaliberal
(32,870 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)John Poet
(2,510 posts)Sometimes people change their minds.
But, I don't necessarily believe this is true.
findrskeep
(713 posts)because he'd win. BIG.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)He said he would not and I believe him
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)He knows if he runs indu he can say bye bye to any good senate assignments or caucusing with us in any meaningful way. He will neuter himself if he runs as an indy
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)plays under. It is like none I have seen in a lifetime. We have learned, his ego is strong. He think he is owed. Hos fan make him feel powerful.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I'm still waiting on to pay for the pope trip. He has issues that need clearing up at home. An independent run- his former colleagues would start spilling the beans to take him out quickly. I know he thinks we owe him, but he's in for a surprise. We aint making him no sammiches or letting himset the agenda. He is going to have to cope.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)heat.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Very delicate
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Unlike some people who lose and then demand the title anyway.
Pharaoh
(8,209 posts)Do you just believe everything you see on the internet?
http://sandiegofreepress.org/2016/06/lies-threats-clickbait-2016-campaign-trail/
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)metroins
(2,550 posts)Not going to happen.
Loudestlib
(980 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Loudestlib
(980 posts)And weve offeredIve offered, basically, to put everything on the table and to see how we can work together and explore thewhat it would take in order for that to happen
AMY GOODMAN: Well, lets go to Bernie Sanders
DR. JILL STEIN: to run a joint ticket, for example.
http://www.democracynow.org/2016/6/9/jill_stein_to_bernie_sanders_run
Lord Magus
(1,999 posts)She's not offering the top of the ticket, she's trying to get Bernie on the bottom of her ticket.
peacebird
(14,195 posts)I am working to help,the greens get on the ticket in Virginia
onenote
(42,715 posts)sturnz0r
(30 posts)It is a lowercase d for democrat
Is this gonna be a problem?
HarmonyRockets
(397 posts)It's a shame. We barely got to know you.
onenote
(42,715 posts)Vote for Democrats.
Winning elections is important therefore, advocating in favor of Republican nominees or in favor of third-party spoiler candidates that could split the vote and throw an election to our conservative opponents is never permitted on Democratic Underground.
So yes, it's a problem.
Loudestlib
(980 posts)Did she tell you that?
This is what she said: "Ive offered, basically, to put everything on the table"
John Poet
(2,510 posts)in Texas and South Dakota, and nowhere else.
Collecting enough signatures to meet filing deadlines would likely be the bigger issue.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)but as a fact of law, sore loser laws cannot be applied to the Presidential race in all but 4 states...there is a laches issue (also a selective enforcement one) in that they were on the books when John Anderson ran in 1980 after losing the GOP primary and despite the capacity to challenge legally, no state did...meaning that laches bars any of those 46 states from doing so in any subsequent election...and individuals do not have standing to do so.
So...Sore Loser isn't an issue. What is an issue is that in virtually every state, it is past the deadline to file to run as an independent.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)First, laches is not an issue here. That's a delay in asserting a legal right. That government officials in 1980 did not assert a legal right to keep Anderson off the ballot does not affect the right of different government officials in 2016 to keep a different candidate off the ballot.
Second, there are a lot of deadlines that haven't passed. Many states have July or August deadlines for independent petitions.
Anyway, if Bernie were to take leave of his senses and decide he wanted to be on the November ballot even if he's not the Democrat nominee, he could easily get the Green Party nomination. There's discussion upthread about Jill Stein's attitude. I'm sure she'd be ecstatic to take the VP spot on a ticket headed by Bernie, and if she weren't, well, what do you think would happen at the Green Party national convention in August? "Hi, I'm Jill Stein, I got 0.36% of the vote last time." "Hi, I'm Bernie Sanders, I'm a sure shot to get at least 5% and qualify the party for federal funding." In other words, the nomination would be his for the asking.
But all this is irrelevant. If Bernie is not the Democratic nominee, then he will endorse whoever is the Democratic nominee. Most of this thread is just an excuse for Clinton people to get in a last few vacuous smears of Bernie.
Tick tock, as they're fond of saying.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)I'm going by how it was explained to me in an undergrad con-law class.
It's fairly common though...the general legal consensus, for a number of reasons, is that sore loser laws cannot be applied to the Presidential race. Another common argument is that voting is a form of political speech and that the state may not restrict free speech...that seems a less-likely win to me.
Anyways, the point is academic...there's no way he's running as an independent.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)But the Senator said he wouldn't.
Do you think he's a liar?
davidlynch
(644 posts)zappaman
(20,606 posts)And what does reply #2 have to do with it?
I believe Sanders and his word.
Do you?
davidlynch
(644 posts)And then we can talk about Bernie breaking his word.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)And then we can talk about the California primary.
Sorry you don't want to talk about your OP.
Why did you post it?
Ingredients:
Stock pot
2 14 oz. Swanson's chicken broth
1 7 3/4 oz. can of regular El Pato Mexican tomato sauce
1 6 oz. can spicy V-8 juice
4 tsp. McCormick/Shilling onion powder (or 1-2 medium finely diced onions)
2 tsp. McCormick/Shilling garlic powder (or 6-8 cloves finely diced garlic)
2 Tbsp. McCormick chili powder (or other suitable chili powder blend like Gebhardt's)
@ 1.5 hours add ingredients below (mix with broth from your chili pot until rich paste is formed)
2 Tbsp. McCormick chili powder (or other suitable chili powder blend like Gebhardt's)
3 tsp. California chili powder
5 tsp. McCormick ground cumin
1/2 tsp. Accent of MSG (optional)
1 Tbsp. Tabasco red pepper sauce
Salt to taste
@ 2 hours add to pot (mix with broth from your chili pot until rich paste is formed)
1 tsp. New Mexico chili powder
1 1/2 tsp. Tabasco red pepper sauce
1 Tbsp. McCormick chili powder (or other suitable chili powder blend like Gebhardt's)
1 tsp. McCormick ground cumin
Salt to taste
@ 2 hours 40 minutes (mix ingredients below with broth from your chili pot until rich paste is formed)
5 tsp. McCormick arrowroot (or corn starch)
1/2 tsp. McCormick garlic powder
1/2 tsp. brown sugar
1 tsp. McCormick ground cumin
1 Tbsp. McCormick chili powder (or other suitable chili powder blend like Gebhardt's)
1/4 tsp. New Mexico chili powder
Salt and Tabasco red prepper sauce to taste
Instructions:
Brown in 3 batches in a non-stick skillet (or spray Pam in a regular heavy duty frying pan), 4 lbs. Tri Tip (top sirloin) cubed with 1 tsp salt and 1/2 tsp. McCormick white pepper in each batch. Rinse each batch with clear water and place in stock pot. Brown 1 to 2 lbs. pork chops (bone in), lightly seasoned with seasoning salt. Place in stock pot with chili meat.
LenaBaby61
(6,976 posts)And I had friends who supported Bernie who mistakenly belonged to the AIP who KNEW the election rules and who requested and GOT crossover ballots on line up until May 23rd, and ALL were able to vote for Bernie. ALL of them. They all to a person said if a fellow Bernie supporter didn't know or wasn't aware of the rule TOO BAD and that ignorance is no excuse and I agree with them.
I mean goodness, to not know the rules of the state you live in is not anyone's fault but your OWN fault.
davidlynch
(644 posts)They would have received a ballot without presidential nominee. Moreover, poll workers were instructed to NOT explain this to the voter even if they asked. They were instructed to respond that NPP voters are "not allowed" to vote for president in the primary.
peacebird
(14,195 posts)findrskeep
(713 posts)JI7
(89,254 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)davidlynch
(644 posts)He probably had no idea how rigged the system is. Democratic primary isn't designed to be democratic in the sense that most people understand. The way that California required independent voters to jump through hoops to get a "crossover ballot" exemplifies the problem.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)Green party, it might actually cause a 3rd party to be taken seriously.
JudyM
(29,251 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)JudyM
(29,251 posts)pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)I never thought I'd see it among Democrats. Wow!
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)Anyone who thinks that he won't do this is very naive.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)But sorry, you lose, again.
KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)I want him to sit down, so I definitely don't wish that he'd run as an independent.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)davidlynch
(644 posts)KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)Get a grip.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)In your mind it was always going to be fraud if Sanders didn't win.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)democrattotheend
(11,605 posts)I thought he had ruled out an independent run?
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)I think he won't do this, so by your lights I'm very naive.
Go ahead, exploit me. The bet is whether Bernie runs in November other than as the Democratic Party nominee.
Bernie runs on Green Party ticket - you win.
Bernie runs on some other minor party ticket, Peace & Freedom or what have you - you win.
Bernie runs as an independent - you win.
Bernie runs on the Democratic Party ticket - no action on the bet.
Bernie endorses the Democratic nominee (not himself) - I win.
Stakes: Loser pays DU $25 to buy the winner a one-year Star membership or extend the winner's membership.
Speak up, or accept a white feather.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)pool as well and I still think Clinton would be the strong favorite.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)Aldipest's use of "the Democrat Party" tends to make me think it is really a front for Conservative interests attempting to sew hate and discontent.
If he did, ripping between 35% and 45% of the Democratic party would be enough to elect even Trump. His frightened and reactionary white demographic would probably give him the win.
And if hey didn't, then it is possible that Sanders could pull enough to keep either side from reaching 270 electoral votes and throw the election into the House of Representatives, now controlled by Republicans. They would not elect Sanders or Clinton.
itsrobert
(14,157 posts)leaving no one with enough Electoral Votes. Which throws the election to the House of Rep. Which is republican majority. They can elect anyone they want. Jeb? Cheney? Cruz?
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)If no candidate has a majority of the electoral votes, then the House, voting by state (one state one vote), chooses the President, but must choose from among the three people with the most electoral votes. On your scenario, the Republicans who control the House would have to choose among Clinton, Sanders, and Trump. Oh, to have the aspirin concession on Capitol Hill that day.
More likely, though, is that a separate Sanders candidacy, even if he carried Vermont and a couple other states, would have the principal effect of drawing off normally Democratic votes in many other states. The result would be that Trump would win a whole bunch of states with only a plurality. He could fall below Romney's percentage of the popular vote and still win quite a few states that Romney lost. Trump would fall well short of a majority of the popular vote but would easily have a majority of the electoral votes.
And that's exactly why Sanders won't do this.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)Your biased hatred is clear.
bvf
(6,604 posts)the moment he became the presumptive Republican nominee.
Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)Please don't post utter RW garbage on our site, please?
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)MineralMan
(146,318 posts)Please don't post stuff like this and give such sites visits. Thanks.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Its HILARIOUS to watch!
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)if it doesn't reflect kindly on her, it is an outrageous lie from the pits of RW hell and anyone who repeats it is a RW, sexist troll! (and will be hidden by the brain police)
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)fans are calling him a liar. Unreal!
pat_k
(9,313 posts)...would give any credibility to "news" from a site on which every article is "by Alipest."
What or who is "aldipest"?
The "About" page states its mission to be:
"We do our best every day to give you the best advices on nutrition, exercise, beauty, healthy food and much more! And we hope to reach and benefit as much people as we can. That is our mission!"
Looks like crap to me.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)pat_k
(9,313 posts)Every article is by "aldipest"
What, they have no people?
Smells like a bullshit propaganda site to me.
And I don't believe a word of it.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)for such juicy rumors for the feeble-minded to lap up.
pat_k
(9,313 posts)Here's the "aldipest" mission:
"...We do our best every day to give you the best advices on nutrition, exercise, beauty, healthy food and much more! And we hope to reach and benefit as much people as we can. That is our mission!"
Guess they decided yellow journalism was more lucrative.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)They've diversified, I guess.
Someone here bought a big load.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)People can be such suckers. Shit site no, no source, it's nothing but bullshit.
katsy
(4,246 posts)SBS is going to run on an independent ticket... coupled with the lack of 1 verifiable fact, act, highly placed source to give this rumor mongering pos rag any credibility whatsoever has escaped you. I mean this article isn't even credible opinion. It's the "woo" of politics. A cry for help
Even if you wished it true... All the infrastructure for a run is available in the Green Party. Why would he lose his campaigns momentum, have his supporters pledge their votes to HRC when he could've easily dragged them to the GP.
HRC has won the nomination. I voted for SBS but am eagerly going to vote for HRC. What purpose does this serve except a cry for attention?
SBS is as honorable as humanly possible. Imperfect. Makes mistakes. Fallible. But he's no more a liar or player or evil than anyone in politics. Probably less so. Get. A. Fucking. Grip.
itsrobert
(14,157 posts)Not going to happen.
Schema Thing
(10,283 posts)TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)It's real.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)You sound like a salesman's dream come true.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)But who knows, I've been surprised before.
mwrguy
(3,245 posts)WhiteTara
(29,718 posts)without attributing sources. Don't you think that is suspect? Sounds phony to me.
Maru Kitteh
(28,341 posts)Just, you know - think about it folks.
I can't believe anyone would fall for this.
Marr
(20,317 posts)litlbilly
(2,227 posts)demwing
(16,916 posts)litlbilly
(2,227 posts)Old Union Guy
(738 posts)If it's true, we will know from enough different sources soon enough.
Bad idea, if true.
FSogol
(45,493 posts)Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Some people will believe anything!
book_worm
(15,951 posts)zappaman
(20,606 posts)chillfactor
(7,577 posts)Sanders would never do anything that stupid!
still_one
(92,257 posts)Gothmog
(145,359 posts)I am amused by this speculation. Sanders' funding has dried up and he would have to sue in a number of states to try to get on the ballot. So far the Sanders lawsuits have been flops
yourpaljoey
(2,166 posts)RandySF
(58,949 posts)doc03
(35,353 posts)immoderate
(20,885 posts)--imm
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)That tells me all I need to know about their judgement.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)And what's more, they don't know WHY she is a good candidate, other than she's a woman and she had a lot of votes. I never knew that was all you needed.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)Ask him why he posted it?
immoderate
(20,885 posts)With a bit of trolling thrown in.
--imm
DCBob
(24,689 posts)Maru Kitteh
(28,341 posts)rurallib
(62,431 posts)think they got some bad weed in their brownies.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)rjsquirrel
(4,762 posts)Strip his committee assignments and have the DSCC funnel a few million to Al Giordano. I know I'll be sending Giordano a check.
Old Grandpa Bernie turns out to be as egotistical as Donald Trump. I used to really respect him. Now I want to see him beaten. Again.
Never should have allowed him to run as a democrat. Hopefully the lesson is learned.
Demsrule86
(68,606 posts)and would guarantee a Trump win. He would go down in history as the one who destroyed the progressive movement just when it seemed it would succeed...snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
TheFarseer
(9,323 posts)Is this part of the continueing sore loser kick Bernie and his supporters while they're down? I thought it would stop now that she has obviously won. Will it stop even if he drops?
demwing
(16,916 posts)pests, that is
Whimsey
(236 posts)Time and time again the message from the campaign has been reversed. Jane wants him to run. 'Nuff said.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)My offer is in #146 upthread. I'll extend it to you, too.
Cripes, if I can find enough pigeons on this one I'll be a Star member for life....
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)The only votes he'd attract would be indies who weren't going to vote for Clinton anyway. He wouldn't win a single state, wouldn't turn a single state red, except maybe Vermont. But likely not even Vermont.
Whimsey
(236 posts)and cost Hillary the nomination. That is the real fear.
FourScore
(9,704 posts)eastwestdem
(1,220 posts)Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)arely staircase
(12,482 posts)become infamous.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)So I have to conclude that he won't.
7wo7rees
(5,128 posts)whatsoever to doubt him now. In addition, there is no way at this point in time to launch a 3rd party candidacy. It can not be done.
72DejaVu
(1,545 posts)As soon as he declares his independent run, we can say what we really think about him without risk of getting hidden.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)Not going to happen, but sure pisses off all the right people to think it might.
VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)But I went to aldipest.com and the whole page is nothing but political articles. Looks interesting. I guess since it might impact Hillary in a negative way, it must be trashed rather than read.
RogerM
(150 posts)June 16th cant come soon enough
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)about the voter fraud nad many other things but about the last third, she was talking to Bernie and urging him to run if the Dems don't make him their nominee. She made some powerful points. She does seem like a sane progressive to me. I hope he takes her advice.
We have another month to see what shakes out.
brooklynite
(94,624 posts)coyote
(1,561 posts)He has not endorsed her yet. I expect he'll put a good word on for her at the convention, but not actively campaign for her. It will be interesting what happens after the convention and where the cards will fall.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)Orsino
(37,428 posts)Enjoy your stay.
whatthehey
(3,660 posts)Would be a massive reversal, doomed to failure and nigh guarantee an R win, which we know he is against.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)Just curious.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)given the stakes, he does not need to pull a Nader.
ismnotwasm
(41,995 posts)Marcy Kaptur? Because I'm really trying to understand that one.
Bernie Sanders Verified account ?@BernieSanders
No president can do it alone. That's why I'm endorsing progressives Rep. @RepMarcyKaptur and Rep. @RickNolanmn.