2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumIf Bernie does not concede and endorse Hillary, then he does not get to speak at the convention.
If he won't do that, then he does not get to speak at the convention. He lost fair and square. He lost by a much wider margin than Hillary did in 2008, and she conceded and endorsed Obama prior to the convention.
Bernie has every right not to concede, but he does not have a right to speak at the convention.
BootinUp
(47,165 posts)gordianot
(15,242 posts)That would show him.
OnDoutside
(19,962 posts)gordianot
(15,242 posts)Guess I could also get one but have no regrets.
OnDoutside
(19,962 posts)gordianot
(15,242 posts)I reserve that for the presumptive winner supporters on DU as opposed to her supporters in the real world. They have very different attitudes.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)or are you just making stuff up?
Yavin4
(35,443 posts)As with ALL presumptive nominees, they're not going to let someone speak who does not full endorse the nominee.
To the victor goes the spoils.
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)Trump's numbers keep falling, so she could probably afford to act that way, but I don't know if she is that immature. I would be surprised if she did something that petty.
BootinUp
(47,165 posts)nominating convention is hardly being petty.
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)That's just primary talk, which is like pillow talk in that both are based in the passion of the moment, and if you're a cynic, manipulation.
Everyone is going to be buddy-buddy again after it's all over.
BootinUp
(47,165 posts)ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)We might be getting one already if his plan is to focus on how shitty Trump is.
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)You can't trust the guy...and he would go after the Democratic Party as well...no way.
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)Just kidding. I guess we'll see what happens.
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)I saw conjuring II with my kid on Tuesday... threw my ouija board away...now burning sage...and hanging crosses...hehe.
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)I love horror movies.
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)I volunteered for Obama in 08 and 12 (never really stopped after 08) and I have a similar poster. He is the best and will go down in history as one of our greatest presidents...right up there with FDR and Johnson.
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)It's a Lovecraft reference. I love his stories.
peace13
(11,076 posts)...with such worries. Corrupt corporatist who'ld a thunk it!
BootinUp
(47,165 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)brush
(53,792 posts)as every other runner-up has always done in the past.
It's normal and customary to make this expected conciliatory gesture you know, lose with grace.
What's up with him? Why is this such a huge hurdle for this guy to get over? He lost fair and square.
floriduck
(2,262 posts)Orsino
(37,428 posts)...for winning all the support she can get. How much does she want to bargain for?
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)It is cut your losses time...one vote and out Sanders goes.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)The revenge fantasies involving a naked Sanders being dragged through the streets of Philly are about as unlikely as those of a Sanders strapped with explosives demanding DWS' head and two national health services to be named later.
I think we'll find we end up with a more progressive platform and a whole lot of Sanders supporters buying Clinton bumper stickers, because Clinton is smart enough to woo the demographics she wants to win bigger.
anigbrowl
(13,889 posts)Bernie's supporters will be influenced by him, naturally, but he can't treat them like bargaining chips. TBH if he and Clinton reached some sort of impasse and Sanders ran 3rd party or pointedly didn't cooperate with her, I feel like he'd take no more than 25-30% of his constituency with him.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)My guess is that Sanders will in fact give a speech. we will then have another peculiar sore winner temper tantrum here.
eastwestdem
(1,220 posts)Candidates don't speak until there is a nominee, and then on the final night of the convention, the nomination is made and that person speaks.
SFnomad
(3,473 posts)Also, "candidates" may speak before there is a nominee ... like Senator Clinton had a principal speaker role on the second evening of the Democratic National Convention back in 2008, the day before the roll call vote. But you're right, the Nominee, in this case Senator Obama, didn't speak until the last evening of the convention, where he "accepted" the nomination, which is typical.
Lord Magus
(1,999 posts)Hillary had already dropped out and endorsed Obama months before the convention. That's the difference. If Bernie is still an active candidate, he's not going to be given a speaking slot at the convention.
SFnomad
(3,473 posts)Her name was placed in nomination for President along with Senator Obama. It's not something that happens at every convention.
And when they got to New York in the roll call vote, Senator Clinton "suspended the rules" of the nomination to have Senator Obama nominated by acclamation.
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)has ruined it for himself...he can't speak unless he drops out.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)for their supporters to argue on their behalf. The order/timing in which they speak is determined by the DNC head and the chair of the convention.
See page 15.
http://www.demrulz.org/wp-content/files/Proposed_Draft-2016_Call_for_the_Convention_8_23_14.pdf
The convention runs from the 25-28th
On the 27th the Vice-Presidential nominee will give an acceptance speech (after being nominated by voice vote).
On the 28th, the presidential nominee will give the acceptance speech.
The 25th and 26th are up for grabs, but Joe Biden, Elizabeth Warren (if she's not the VP candidate), President Obama, and former President Clinton will all get primetime speaking slots.
A primetime speaking slot in the first two nights is very scarce real estate, and it goes to team players only.
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)But there is not.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)it's her party, he's a guest
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)I am sure she will...she is brilliant.
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)The winner makes the rules...come Wednesday...Hillary become the official nominee and Bernie is the also ran.
panader0
(25,816 posts)Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)Only the Nominee speaks after the vote. Ah well, I have heard enough.
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)and afterwards ...only the nominee speaks usually.
Fla Dem
(23,693 posts)They can have a surrogate speak, but I don't believe any candidate has ever made a stump speech at a convention. Once a party nominee has been chosen, other candidates don't get to speak, they are no longer relevant. It's the nominee's time to stand in the spotlight.
Fozzledick
(3,860 posts)He has every right to have his delegates vote. Who died and made you king?
Yavin4
(35,443 posts)She's not going to let someone who has not endorsed her speak at the convention.
Fozzledick
(3,860 posts)Yavin4
(35,443 posts)Fozzledick
(3,860 posts)mythology
(9,527 posts)Sanders could go stand outside and make a speech without the government telling him he can't. That's free speech. There is no requirement that a private entity give him a microphone. Just like the ADL or the NAACP isn't required to let a white supremacist have a microphone.
You can stand on the sidewalk and call me an asshole, but I'm not required to let you do so in my house.
Claiming free speech is being violated displays a stunning lack of understanding of what a free speech violation is.
Chasstev365
(5,191 posts)reformist2
(9,841 posts)* And let me state that I in no way believe that Hillary even came close to actually winning anything.
Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)All fair & square!
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)The loser should not get the goodies...he lost in a Democratic primary.
brush
(53,792 posts)He still has a chance to do the honorable thing, but time is running out.
What's the deal with him? He lost. He should lose with grace.
brooklynite
(94,603 posts)There's ALWAYS a rollcall vote. It's the highlight of Wednesday evening.
Fozzledick
(3,860 posts)brooklynite
(94,603 posts)Fozzledick
(3,860 posts)Are people afraid the roll call won't go the way they want?
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)At the convention.
The voting is over. Clinton won. The Democratic party convention is not a place to campaign against another Demicrat.
imagine2015
(2,054 posts)weak candidate like Clinton.
We're strong progressives, not cowardly centrist Democrats or right-wing Trumpits.
Yavin4
(35,443 posts)The nominee controls the convention. You don't allow people who have not endorsed you speak.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Stands to reason then, that it will not be your decision, will it?
brooklynite
(94,603 posts)TwilightZone
(25,472 posts)Love this one. The weak candidate who handily beat the strong candidate in every measurable way.
57/43 in any other context is a blowout. Weak, indeed.
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)beat Bernie like a drum?
Orsino
(37,428 posts)Your revenge fantasy is at least more humane.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)KPN
(15,646 posts)circumstances. Bernie's campaign was a serious, almost successful challenge to the Democratic Party establishment's candidate of choice; a challenge that, if successful, would have been fatal to the establishment. For Bernie to congratulate Hillary on a hard fought win now would indeed be groveling for him and his followers. It takes courage to challenge the establishment in any venue, but especially in this one. Courageous people don't grovel, especially courageous leaders which Bernie unquestionably is.
He will concede and congratulate when the time is right. When will that be? Probably not until the convention and even then only if their have been adequate concessions to assure those who want real change that there will indeed be change.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)it's showing grace and maturity.
I do not expect the junior Senator from Vermont to show grace and maturity.
KPN
(15,646 posts)the whole systems stacked against the common person. This is a fight for the economic as well as the social well being of the common person. The primary system itself is stacked against that. Bernie will show grace and maturity when the time is right. He showed grace and maturity throughout his campaign ... certainly to the same extent as Hillary, but in my view more.
Stop being a sore winner why don't you.
Raster
(20,998 posts)...crawling on his knees up to the main podium where he must profess his undying fealty and loyalty and kiss the Ring of Power... and apologizes for interfering with the will of the Clinton. Amends must be made! Examples must be set.
One pantsuit to rule them all, with elastic waste to bind them...
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)ymetca
(1,182 posts)If they don't let him speak from the podium he'll be speaking from somewhere. It would be utterly stupid not to let him speak, even if half the crowd remains stone-faced.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)so he must withdraw himself from the race to get a speaking slot. At least that's how I remember it explained by Chris Hayes.
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)Sivart
(325 posts)You are demanding the endorsement, as well?
Interesting.
I don't know about you, but from my experience, if I am at the point where I am demanding or basically blackmailing someone into endorsing me, I know I must have fucked something up somewhere along the way. Demanding and endorsement is an oxymoron unto itself.
As a Sanders supporter, I could not care less about him giving a speech at the convention. He doesn't need a career launching speech like Obama gave.
I think Clinton supporters have seen the rallies all this time and don't want Sanders to upstage Clinton, or the Sanders crowd to upstage the Clinton crowd.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Sivart
(325 posts)I was just responding to the original post in this thread, which appears to be demanding not just a concession, but also an endorsement.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)that's how things work.
if Sanders refuses to support the nominee, he sure as heck will not and should not be granted the extraordinary honor and privilege of addressing the convention
Sivart
(325 posts)But we both know that is not going to be fine with Clinton. While her supporters on this site may feel as though Clinton does not need a single Sanders supporter's vote, Clinton knows better.
I get it. It must be very frustrating to have so many people within the democratic party unhappy with the selection of Clinton. Blackmailing Sanders into and endorsement is not the solution you are looking for.....trust me.
Endorsements should not be forced. This is common sense.
Who cares if Sanders speaks at the convention? I sure as hell don't. Him doing so or not doing so will not change my opinion of Clinton one bit.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)his endorsement--she's already leading Trump without it.
it's not a matter of force--he certainly doesn't need a speaking spot
But, he doesn't get to have his cake and eat it too, he has to give in order to get
Sivart
(325 posts)This all stems from the original post here, not from anything Sanders is demanding.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)everyone wins
Sivart
(325 posts)The only thing I will agree on is that Sanders still has Clinton supporters nervous. I don't get why they are still concerned about Sanders. She has the nomination.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Sivart
(325 posts)Do you know what the word ENDORSE means?
He shouldn't do it if he doesn't mean it, and you should not want it if he doesn't mean it. An endorsement BY DEFINITION needs to be genuine. I can't believe this has to be pointed out.
If you want Sanders supporters to vote for Clinton, maybe Clinton should do something about that?
I am a Sanders supporter 100 percent, but if Clinton wants my vote, a Sanders endorsement is not how to get it.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)the will of a majority of primary voters, he prefers to pretend the 17 million Clinton voters didn't exist.
To Sanders, no one matters if they didn't vote for him.
Sivart
(325 posts)I have not heard one word from his mouth that could be taken as him pretending Clinton voters don't exist.
And sanders has said and acknowledged FROM DAY ONE voters who vote against him. He has always encouraged voting, even when the votes are against him.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Lots of talk about independent voters and young voters and how special/important they are, not diddly about women voters, African-American voters, registered Democrats.
Sivart
(325 posts)And so far from the truth that you are no longer worth my time.
Sanders has mentioned women, African Americans, and Democrats during his campaign so many times on camera that your statement is nothing other than a straight up lie.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Sivart
(325 posts)Can you please show me an example of what you are talking about?
Because it sounds like some stupid bullshit that you just made up. Women and African Americans ARE PEOPLE. Please show an example where Sanders has referred to women and african americans as something less than people.
Such bullshit.
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)Choice for Sanders.
imagine2015
(2,054 posts)On prime-time TV!
And they can join the thousands outsides demonstrating against the oligarchy and the billionaire class control over the government and economy.
Bernie has a strong political hammer and isn't afraid to use it against big corporations, Wall Street and all their benefactors and apologists. Haven't you learned that from his campaign?
Do you support the oligarchy?
msongs
(67,420 posts)buddies afterwards
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)You knew about alternate delegates, right? They live to be upgraded to full delegate status. That's why they agree to be alternates. If Bernie's pledged delegates walk out, enough alternates will be upgraded to make a quorum for the convention and the vote will still occur.
w4rma
(31,700 posts)You really have some authoritarian fantasy.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)share the pledged delegate voting intentions. However, when such alternates are not available, an alternate will still be seated. It doesn't matter really. If every pledged delegate for Bernie votes, or the alternate votes in the same way, Hillary will still have almost 400 pledged delegates more than Bernie.
An act of defiance by walking out will change absolutely nothing. It would be a futile gesture and an ugly one, too.
The people have voted, and the pledged delegates have been allocated accordingly. There it is. Hillary won.
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)Delegates are the most loyal Democrats and those are mostly who the delegates are. So if Sanders wants a walk out...then bar the door...out they go.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Yavin4
(35,443 posts)You don't allow someone who has not endorsed you to speak at the convention.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Raster
(20,998 posts)Can you provide ANYTHING to substantiate your statements? And now, you speak with the authority of the DNC and Hillary Clinton?
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)At least he won't get a prime time slot.
If he wants a good spot, he's got to be on board. We'll see just how stubborn and self-centered he is, I guess.
Stallion
(6,476 posts)Democrats should not allow a Convention commercial for the formation of a third party
Raster
(20,998 posts)Just a tad bit full of yourself, eh?
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)censoring someone that clearly is supported by millions of Democrats. Whose convention is this? Not the DNC, it's for all Democrats, even those that won't pledge fealty to H. Clinton.
The Corporate Wing of our Party want to silence the millions that have come out to support free and honest elections and government. They want a corporate appointed president.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)that's the rule.
Ask Jerry Brown.
Worldly Traveler
(34 posts)There is no nominee until a vote is taken at the convention!
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)bunnies
(15,859 posts)Maybe we should ask skinner to start a group for all of you?
Sivart
(325 posts)If you do not realize this, then you are not intelligent enough to be blackmailing people.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)That will surely win me over.
Hoo-fucking-ray for "party unity."
blackspade
(10,056 posts)swhisper1
(851 posts)Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)her supporters.
swhisper1
(851 posts)His summit speech said it all. Having delegates gives him the option to speak, but they wont force him to. More likely the concessions hinge on him speaking about the GE, and support for Hill. He is a wise man.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)I didn't realize you post here.
floriduck
(2,262 posts)chillfactor
(7,576 posts)Hillary has won.....his unwillingness to concede and endorse Hillary exhibits second-grade behavior...
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)ThinkCritically
(241 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)Like every one before. Hillary will have absolute control on who speaks.
Logical
(22,457 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)There are no campaign speeches.
TeamPooka
(24,229 posts)and the TV networks would have kept him on the air.
Beacool
(30,250 posts)I doubt that Sanders will be denied his moment in the sun, even if a concession has to be pried out of him with pliers. Neither Hillary nor the party want to lose the voters who supported Sanders. They are needed, not just to win the presidency, but also to retake the Senate, add more seats in the House and elect Democrats at the state level.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)I agree fully
Qutzupalotl
(14,317 posts)His focus now is on getting the party to adopt liberal positions, and encouraging his supporters to run for office.
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)Qutzupalotl
(14,317 posts)in the form of the party adopting progressive policies. That's better than any number of words from anyone.
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)Allow me to offer my congratulations.
d_legendary1
(2,586 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)It is Hillary's convention .
Yavin4
(35,443 posts)Hillary is not going to allow a speaker to bash her at the convention.
hack89
(39,171 posts)leeroysphitz
(10,462 posts)endorsing.
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)Already he is viewed as a laughing stock...it will only get worse...once Hillary figures out that he is of no use to her, she will cut her losses...the bunker podcast probably did it.
MFM008
(19,818 posts)going into a convention.
Yeah it happened between Carter and Kennedy and look how that turned out.
Yavin4
(35,443 posts)Dems learned from '68 and '80 that having an ugly, contentious convention hurt them in the GE. Every speaker/speech is going to be screened for maximum positive impact.
Remember the Republican convention in 2012? Remember Clint Eastwood? Nobody vetted his speech and look how that turned out.
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)Let him put his name in nomination like the sore loser his is...he is then done...and can hang around trying to pretend he is relevant. He won't do the stuff that would help Hillary in the general so no need to kiss his derriere.
XRubicon
(2,212 posts)He is free to not endorse and continue the "revolution" forever... however he needs to feel the consequences of the bern.
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)ass. Not going to happen.
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)bobthedrummer
(26,083 posts)New Democrats might be ok with that-not me Yavin4--by the way Bernie carried 71 of the 72 counties in my state in April he is going to speak at the convention regardless of what you or anyone else demands.
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)And he won't speak unless he concedes and endorses...no pixie dust will make it happen.
bobthedrummer
(26,083 posts)Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)He lost and is owed nothing. Clinton gets to decide who does what at the convention...and it has pissed me off but good that the first woman nominee is bossed around by Bernie Sanders.
Yavin4
(35,443 posts)The Democratic party is a private political party. It's not the government.
bobthedrummer
(26,083 posts)aikoaiko
(34,172 posts)Are there actual party/convention rules about this or is this just a practice?
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)he can't speak. I would think he has to concede the way it works..endorsing well that is probably up to the nominee Sec. Clinton. I would not give him a chance to run Hillary and the Democratic party down.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)Tell that to the millions of voters who voted for him and the thousands of protestors outside the convention.
Hotler
(11,428 posts)stay classy.
Demsrule86
(68,595 posts)nice to Bernie...more than he deserves really.
Hotler
(11,428 posts)Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)But you're in charge of exactly two things: Jack and Shit. And Jack just left town.
Smarmie Doofus
(14,498 posts)SaschaHM
(2,897 posts)That being said, if all the Sander's delegates decided to walk out, outside of it being a publicity hit, it wouldn't affect the proceedings of the convention. The Clinton campaign has a majority of the delegates and that is the only thing necessary for business continue.
If anything, Sanders delegates walking out would be detrimental to their candidate, because he does need people there to vote for platform and rules changes that he endorses.
Yavin4
(35,443 posts)Given Trump's historically bad numbers, Hillary has opportunities to woo Republican voters to her side, and if Bernie's supporters walk out, you will lose all leverage with her and the Democratic party.
SaschaHM
(2,897 posts)This thing is tightly controlled by the DNC and the Clinton campaign, speakers included. Unless it's some endorsement/unity speech from Sanders, why would anyone want something other than that to be a lasting image from the convention?
Maru Kitteh
(28,341 posts)Gothmog
(145,339 posts)Orsino
(37,428 posts)Yavin4
(35,443 posts)The presumptive nominee controls the convention.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)Chan790
(20,176 posts)it only hurts Hillary, not Sanders.
He'll speak elsewhere and that will be the public and media attraction, taking air out of the convention.
Want to lose in November, Clintonites? Keep going the way you're going. It's a road to Hell paved with something other than good intentions...it's hard to see what you're marching on from this vantage-point, but it looks like hubris.