2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWhy I think a Kaine pick makes sense
I get the reservations about some of his policy views and the fact that when one thinks
of progressive leaders, he is far from first to come to mind, but at the same time, we place too much
value on the pick for exciting the base rather than reasons beyond that.
I'm sorry, but if one is not on board with our nominee at this point, I don't see Warren etc changing much.
I like the idea of Warren as a VP, but I don't want to lose that seat and love her in the Senate where I think
that she is more valuable. Same with other Senators mentioned.
The true criteria for a pick should be their support for the President, ability to work with the President and
most importantly competence and experience in governing - so that they can take over if God forbid, the worst happened.
I'm not suggesting that Warren etc are not competent - far from it, but Kaine has won several elections
is relatively popular in his own state and has governing experience.
He enhances the steady hand that can't be stated enough in these times and against the bat shit crazy alternative of Trump and the GOP.
It's not sexy, it's not exciting, but it does not need to be.
Freddie
(9,275 posts)MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)She will make the best decision, in terms of uniting the General Electorate.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)she needs to somehow speak to and encourage by her choice, not just one little fringe of resistance who have rebuffed all efforts to woo them (but I hope really don't need to be when all's said and done).
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)It's a long campaign if they don't get along.
tallahasseedem
(6,716 posts)that means I trust her to make the right decision on who would best suit her and best serve the country as VP. Full stop.
bluedye33139
(1,474 posts)I have never thought of the vice presidential office as being a source of policy-making decisions. My understanding of the vice president's role is that it has a parliamentarian role and can serve as a representative of the executive branch formal affairs.
I will be happy with any Democrat chosen for the VP slot.
CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)As much as I would like to see Warren on the trail for the next few months tearing Trump a new one (she will anyway, but you know what I mean), it's not as if she doesn't have issues of her own. The business community will be hesitant to back the Democratic machine with her on the ticket. Sure, you can say "who needs them?", but that money and influence can come in very handy. And it's not insignificant to question the wisdom of an all-female ticket. I don't know what the numbers would be, but I guarantee that there are people out there who will grudgingly vote for Hillary over Trump, but who would be scared in their little lizard minds by not having a man around somewhere.
forjusticethunders
(1,151 posts)I'd love to tell the banks and sexists to fuck off with Warren but we can't risk Trump.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)But why should we actually read the stuff we form our opinions on? Huffington Post does such a good job telling us what we should know and think.
NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)you have to demonstrate that you are on their team in a nuanced way that doesn't exactly expose your hand to the voters. It's the way elections are conducted all the time.
IronLionZion
(45,544 posts)legislators are the ones who would review/update and pass new regulations
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)"if one is not on board with our nominee at this point ..."
No VP pick will change that.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)think
(11,641 posts)Choosing Kaine does not.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)think
(11,641 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)marriage as 'for straight couples only' and he signed it after promising to veto it during his election. Dishonest and bigoted are not words meaning 'not exciting'. This Party should not be rewarding anti gay politicians, nor those who are drug warriors like Tim Kaine.
With Kaine, all the legalized cannabis States are in play because he is one giant middle finger raised to the decided will of the voters of those States.
writes3000
(4,734 posts)Check out CNN's super conservative electoral map page.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/20/politics/road-to-270-electoral-college-map-2/
If it comes down to a close race, if Kaine can deliver VA, it gives the Clinton campaign a tremendous number of options to win.
If Kaine delivers VA (13) and Hillary wins all of the strong Dem states (201) and the Dem leaning states of CO, MI and WI (35), then Hillary only needs to win PA (20) and one other small state. She would then win with NH (4) or IA (6) or NV (6).
She would win without FL or OH or NC.
It makes things very, very tough for the Republicans.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)Eye on the prize people!
writes3000
(4,734 posts)Then it all comes down to PA or OH or FL really.
And I like our chances.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)I really am not understanding the angst.
writes3000
(4,734 posts)It feels like the public wants a populist advocate. A strong voice speaking for the people. Bernie and Trump seem to excel because of their populist speak.
Also, there's the question of how he would govern and what he would fight for. On that topic, I think people are being a little unfair but they have a right to their concerns.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)especially in the VP slot. I get the impression that some still think we're picking a presidential candidate. The most important thing, right now, is we have to WIN. Kaine is safe, and will do no harm, imho. That alone makes him a great choice.
AllyCat
(16,233 posts)And that does not speak to even a majority of DUers as far as I can tell. But the demographics here have changed. So maybe that's what DU wants.
Gorgatron
(95 posts)(The other two still in the running I guess) Also supported the TPP.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)I had forgotten that he speaks Spanish fluently.
I had forgotten that he is a Civil Rights attorney.
He was a mayor, a governor, and now a senator.
He really isn't that controversial.
And as for the gay marriage issue, I'm willing to bet that he regrets his past stance. I can't see him not being for marriage equality NOW!
AllyCat
(16,233 posts)Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)And remember: He served as the head of the DGA (Democratic Governors Association) for a time. He's probably the best and most logical choice.
Bradical79
(4,490 posts)Since Pence's stance on LGBTQ issues is a big part of what makes him awful.
writes3000
(4,734 posts)Since he's been in the Senate, he's got a 90% approval rating.
Bradical79
(4,490 posts)And its been directly stated multiple times. Not sure why you wouldn't understand it. He took a bigoted position on marriage equality and wants to deregulate the banks. It's very straightforward and easy to understand. That doesn't mean the negatives outwiegh the positives, but it's easy to see why picking him would cause anxiety.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Roll those dice and find out. You have 'if' as your key word and you leave out the negatives Tim brings to the table, long anti gay history, anti cannabis views. He's a conservative, and as such provides scant contrast to Pence. 'Well Mike, I stopped saying anti gay things in time for this election but you are still saying that stuff, what about that?'
writes3000
(4,734 posts)I know the Republicans are doing that.
As a gay man, Kaine isn't my top choice but I also don't think he's against the Dem platform.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Virginia's Constitutional ban on marriage equality after having promised as candidate that he would veto it. If that's your idea of trustworthy, what can I say? I personally don't see any added value to having a VP that was very much like Pence until the national opinion made it impossible for him to keep saying and doing those things.
Would Kaine fight to defend our rights? Would he even be honest about it? His record says no to both things.
themaguffin
(3,828 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)will of the people in regard to cannabis? Is that a great way to win Colorado? I don't think so.
And to counter Pence, we'd have a guy who agreed with Pence about LGBT rights until very recently. Will he provide adequate contrast or will he seek to pander to Pence type voters?
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)kcjohn1
(751 posts)I suspect the traditional west swing states will not be in play for Trump (NM, NV, CO).
OH, FL will be crucial for both.
MI, PA, NH, IA will be the new battle grounds.
Trump only path to victory is winning the rust belt OH, MI, PA (NAFTA) + FL + independent leaning NH and conservative IA.
Kaine does not help with the rust belt, if anything he hurts.
tallahasseedem
(6,716 posts)Now that's an electoral strategy I like to see!
Arizona Roadrunner
(168 posts)In his speech last night, Trump said "So if you want to hear the corporate spin.....Democrats are holding their convention next week".
interesting!!!!!
Darb
(2,807 posts)I think McCauliff gets to replace him, but what about a special election after?
MSMITH33156
(879 posts)needs to do the following:
1) Fit the ticket, meaning look like Clinton-Kaine is a team people can get behind. Visuals matter. I don't think Trump-Pence works at all in this regard.
2) Be able to attack for HRC. If Hillary can rise above the fray, she wins this going away. Because the other ticket is literally a buffoonish, racist, reality TV star and a conservative radio host. So if Kaine can trade shots with them, and allow Clinton to talk about her positive vision for America's future, something the Republicans have not even tried to articulate, then she'll win. Negativity can work well for incumbents..."you know I'm good enough I'm doing the job, but this person will nuke everything." But in an open election, you have to spend significant more time talking about what you will do, since you haven't done the job. Present your vision. Trump didn't do that. Hillary can, and let Kaine get in the mud.
3) Make people comfortable that he/she can be president if the worst happens. Kane passes that test with flying colors.
aintitfunny
(1,421 posts)However, he has been blatant in his support for bank DEregulation. He is at best a moderate, at worst - center right. Wrong choice for winning in an unpredictable year. The Progressives will not like this VP choice and they (we) remain an essential component to a Clinton victory. Perez would be better, and I don't agree with him on everything.
I love Warren but would rather see her leadership continue in the senate.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)you won't vote for Hillary. We need to support our Democratic ticket. Kaine is a long time, rock solid Democrat, well poised to bring us Virginia, as well as a great swath of the general electorate. This all means, he will help us WIN. Isn't this what we all want? I sincerely hope so.
aintitfunny
(1,421 posts)I stated what I believe to be true. If she chooses Kaine, I will be disappointed. However, I will vote for her and support her becoming the president. But facts are facts. In spite of the reality that Kaine may help her take Virginia, there is no guarantee, not in this election year. I have never voted for anyone but the Democratic nominee and that is not going to change this year. That being said, I know a lot of Progressive, normally reliable, Democrats who are at best ambivalent about her candidacy and adding a center right Veep will not win them over. This site seems to be riddled with them.
By the way, you did not share your opinion about Kaine pushing the FCC to ease up on bank regulation? Are you okay with that because you believe he will help us win?
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)AllyCat
(16,233 posts)And who we are appealing to.
mountain grammy
(26,656 posts)it's all those "Independent", apolitical folks on the fence out there.. Kaine is conservative, big banks, big money, big crime for marijuana users.. yay, let's lock up everyone. Sounds pretty Trumpy. Is that who we want to appeal to? I think there's less of them and more who would listen to the likes of Elizabeth Warren or Corey Booker. These are the voters the Democratic Party should be seeking out, because these are the people who, if we can get their attention, will make a damn difference. In not getting their attention, we lost the Senate and the majority of local offices.
Just my humble opinion.. please don't censure me. I'm voting for Hillary, but her VP choice is important to me too.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)If they support Hillary, they will be fine with Kaine.
mountain grammy
(26,656 posts)Just how did we lose the Senate? I was thinking uninspired Independents not voting, but I'm probably wrong.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)And I'm not "so sure," just giving my opinion like everybody else here.
mountain grammy
(26,656 posts)not my first choice, or even second, lots of reservations, but I see some good qualities there. I'm worried about this election and the aftermath.
farmboy
(252 posts)What are your opinions on how Kaine's view on those matters will play for the ticket?
exboyfil
(17,865 posts)both Legislative and Executive experience. I also think he will have a significant advantage during the VP debate.
mountain grammy
(26,656 posts)We need energy, momentum and enthusiasm, not a conservative! The man still wants to lock up marijuana users... Come on, Hillary, for once, look outside the establishment!
CobaltBlue
(1,122 posts)Thats it.
themaguffin
(3,828 posts)retrowire
(10,345 posts)We see Hillary as a corporate candidate who is adopting progressive positions. I'm believing in my heart that she's honestly trying to do it because she could see the passion people had for those positions with Bernie.
However, if she, a corporate candidate adopting progressive measures takes in another corporate candidate then that's two corporate minds with a table of progressive goals.
That math isn't very appealing.
exboyfil
(17,865 posts)The choice is that or "burn the sucker down". It is probably the easiest voting decision in my life for President.
kstewart33
(6,551 posts)Bravo!