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For transparency: Wikileaks has released many DNC and HRC emails and other communications for us. (Original Post) bobthedrummer Jul 2016 OP
If they really wanted to be transparent, there would also be an RNC email cache available annavictorious Jul 2016 #1
This. It's immoral for them to release only one side scscholar Jul 2016 #26
Wow. revbones Jul 2016 #49
Shaddup! Your kind of "We don't need tit-for-tat." attitude TheDebbieDee Jul 2016 #54
Sigh revbones Jul 2016 #70
Nothing you've said explains why there hasn't been TheDebbieDee Jul 2016 #71
Oh sorry. revbones Jul 2016 #73
Respect and thanks. tecelote Jul 2016 #77
If they let on murderer go, then... scscholar Jul 2016 #62
Wow indeed. The only crime committed here is by the hackers who broke into DanTex Jul 2016 #82
Where are the PUTIN emails? Anyone who can't see how ripe this thing smells has a MADem Jul 2016 #42
What makes you think they wouldn't do that if they had them? SpareribSP Jul 2016 #50
How do you know they don't have one? annavictorious Jul 2016 #65
Here are 650000 communications from Russia that Wikileaks has leaked. SpareribSP Jul 2016 #72
But they haven't released any RNC and Trump communications. DanTex Jul 2016 #2
exactly. sarae Jul 2016 #7
And Trump saying he will not stop Russia from invading any non-paying NATO country. That alone kerry-is-my-prez Jul 2016 #17
Yes! Thank you...his recent NATO remarks! sarae Jul 2016 #21
MI6 comes to mind RonniePudding Jul 2016 #45
They won't. Trump controls the release Dkc05 Jul 2016 #81
You go ahead with that. MineralMan Jul 2016 #3
Putin thanks you. Metric System Jul 2016 #4
The leader of Russia wrote each and every one of those emails? notadmblnd Jul 2016 #22
Do you not... Adrahil Jul 2016 #25
I asked if you believe that the leader of Russia wrote each and every one of those emails? notadmblnd Jul 2016 #39
Your question was not to me. Adrahil Jul 2016 #53
There was no corruption. annavictorious Jul 2016 #67
which allegations being addressed are untrue? notadmblnd Jul 2016 #68
Or they get a paycheck.... MADem Jul 2016 #43
Gee they sure don't like Hillary ismnotwasm Jul 2016 #5
Another fearless kick for transparency. n/t bobthedrummer Jul 2016 #6
Fearless, huh? So why aren't you defending the pro-Trump organization that DanTex Jul 2016 #9
Because I loathe Trump and love the Truth no matter where it's found unlike your opinions DanTex bobthedrummer Jul 2016 #13
You've got a bit of a love triangle going on there. DanTex Jul 2016 #16
This ^^ Silver_Witch Jul 2016 #27
Must be nice to have such a binary view of the world. charlyvi Jul 2016 #29
Another fearless kick for Russian Intelligence and the Trump/Putin alliance n/t emulatorloo Jul 2016 #20
You are right... this is pretty "transparent" jcgoldie Jul 2016 #8
this obamanut2012 Jul 2016 #36
+1 RonniePudding Jul 2016 #46
Wikileaks is anarchy...just like Trump. JaneyVee Jul 2016 #10
where is stuff on RNC???...trump? on pence? on conservatives? beachbum bob Jul 2016 #11
Post your credit card numbers and social security number before you praise these anarchists. randome Jul 2016 #12
It's in the metadata collections of the alphabet community marketers-isn't it? Get real. bobthedrummer Jul 2016 #15
So post it. We all want to see. For transparency, you know. Hekate Jul 2016 #33
No. it's not. one_voice Jul 2016 #14
Dirty tricks by the Republicans...... kerry-is-my-prez Jul 2016 #19
Where's the info on TRUMP & the RNC & the RIGHT WING? Hells bells. Hekate Jul 2016 #18
^^^This!!! DemonGoddess Jul 2016 #24
take it to Breitbart ericson00 Jul 2016 #23
Do you have a link to RNC e-mails? DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #28
You know what I adore the most about wikileaks? ismnotwasm Jul 2016 #30
No, it's not worth a look Andy823 Jul 2016 #31
Why are so many of the posters sounding like ultrareactionary throwbacks-with ad hominem bs? CTlike bobthedrummer Jul 2016 #32
Lol. This very post of yours is an ad hominem attack. emulatorloo Jul 2016 #41
hey emu, the hippies called... HR_Pufnstuf Jul 2016 #44
Proud hippie wannabe, fan of Sid and Marty Krofft too! emulatorloo Jul 2016 #55
How come they only focused only on HRC and the DNC? tandot Jul 2016 #34
Any from the RNC? Her Sister Jul 2016 #35
"For us" RonniePudding Jul 2016 #37
How does wikileaks make Money? Peregrine Jul 2016 #38
yo bob, whassup bro? HR_Pufnstuf Jul 2016 #40
Which "us" are you referring to? nt. Blue Idaho Jul 2016 #47
I'm more interested... JSup Jul 2016 #48
Hacking is wrong! Period. riversedge Jul 2016 #51
Wikileaks is looking to sink Hillary. hrmjustin Jul 2016 #52
If we do not belive in transparencey randr Jul 2016 #56
Hacking and transparency are two different things. hrmjustin Jul 2016 #57
I fear you may be attacking the messenger randr Jul 2016 #58
Have they leaked Trumps stuff? hrmjustin Jul 2016 #59
What in hells name does that have to do with any of this randr Jul 2016 #60
You made the point they are "equal opportunity exposers" and I am asking you have they leaked hrmjustin Jul 2016 #61
Equal opportunity exposes... LenaBaby61 Jul 2016 #64
Everything DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #79
the stuff that dribbles from Trump's lips is much like what these emails expose reddread Jul 2016 #83
That is not the point. The point is they are targeting Democrats only. hrmjustin Jul 2016 #86
I assume you have confirmed their authenticity, right? L. Coyote Jul 2016 #63
They're true. DNC staffer apologizes for email on Sanders religion Arazi Jul 2016 #74
and now that they have? reddread Jul 2016 #84
So RNC had no back room discussions and emails on dumping Trump? Sheepshank Jul 2016 #66
You should title this... Demsrule86 Jul 2016 #69
^This^ X 100 Loki Jul 2016 #80
Not for me...hence forward I will ignore such posts Demsrule86 Jul 2016 #75
care to dance? reddread Jul 2016 #85
Nope Demsrule86 Jul 2016 #92
Wikileaks is an un-American & anti-American operation ericson00 Jul 2016 #76
Ahhhh, Wikileaks apcalc Jul 2016 #78
This is now mainstream, as it should be. Kick. bobthedrummer Jul 2016 #87
More is now being posted at Reddit and those of you that read for content may be interested. bobthedrummer Jul 2016 #88
So it's worth a look to see the E-mails of Clinton as Sec of State and the DNC? but not book_worm Jul 2016 #89
Kick n/t Cal Carpenter Jul 2016 #90
You know Bob, really the crowd that clocks into this place is mostly the same nolabels Jul 2016 #91
 

scscholar

(2,902 posts)
26. This. It's immoral for them to release only one side
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 02:36 PM
Jul 2016

Of course, since they're conservatives, they don't care.

 

revbones

(3,660 posts)
49. Wow.
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 04:43 PM
Jul 2016

So by that logic it would be immoral to prosecute and convict a murderer while other murderers have not been prosecuted and convicted.

No thief could be tried until all thieves are caught. No crime prosecuted until all crimes are prosecuted.

Wow. Just wow.

 

TheDebbieDee

(11,119 posts)
54. Shaddup! Your kind of "We don't need tit-for-tat." attitude
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 04:59 PM
Jul 2016

will only make sure that Trump gets elected in November....

Wikileaks is working with the conservatives, maybe at the direction of the Koch brothers. Don't YOU think it's strange that nothing controversial has been Wiki-leaked about republicans or do you just think that republicans never do anything wrong?

 

revbones

(3,660 posts)
70. Sigh
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 07:53 PM
Jul 2016

I guess it's always a conspiracy when it's against your side huh?

My comment about the perverse logic still stands and your childish response does nothing to dispel that.

I never said Republicans don't do anything wrong. I just don't abide the hypocrisy of excusing one side by saying the other does it. Nothing you've said diminishes the actions exposed in those emails. Excusing such actions by the supposed good guys, by saying the bad guys do bad stuff too doesn't really work.

 

TheDebbieDee

(11,119 posts)
71. Nothing you've said explains why there hasn't been
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 08:16 PM
Jul 2016

any Wiki-leaks e-mails that are damaging to republicants!

 

revbones

(3,660 posts)
73. Oh sorry.
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 09:57 PM
Jul 2016

I must've missed where I said I had the magic answer to that one or something. Perhaps it has to do with them not having someone fall prey to a phishing email, or really who cares? It doesn't excuse the actions of those that have been exposed does it?

I was more commenting on the hypocrisy and shoot-the-messenger mentality that many seem to have when a problem in the Democratic party is exposed, rather than admitting there is a problem and doing something about it such as fixing the problem. It's frustrating to see many caught up in team identity rather than trying to live up to principles they claim the other team doesn't have...

tecelote

(5,122 posts)
77. Respect and thanks.
Sun Jul 24, 2016, 07:27 AM
Jul 2016

You said it... "It's frustrating to see many caught up in team identity rather than trying to live up to principles they claim the other team doesn't have... "

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
82. Wow indeed. The only crime committed here is by the hackers who broke into
Sun Jul 24, 2016, 08:31 AM
Jul 2016

the private communications if DNC members. The fact that they targeted the DNC but left Trump and the RNC alone makes their political motives clear.

I guess you don't think it's immoral to hack into people's emails. And you don't have a problem with a criminal organization that targets Democrats in order to help Trump get elected. I wonder why that is.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
42. Where are the PUTIN emails? Anyone who can't see how ripe this thing smells has a
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 04:08 PM
Jul 2016

terrible head cold. That PutinRNC virus can do a number on ya!

SpareribSP

(325 posts)
50. What makes you think they wouldn't do that if they had them?
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 04:49 PM
Jul 2016

If you have an RNC email cache, send it to them!

 

annavictorious

(934 posts)
65. How do you know they don't have one?
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 06:34 PM
Jul 2016

If they don't have one, then why not?

Throughout the Democratic primaries and even to today, there was plenty of shit-stirring and division-sowing from the the Russian Times website. They've been working really hard to divide Democrats, Republicans not so much. I wonder why?

SpareribSP

(325 posts)
72. Here are 650000 communications from Russia that Wikileaks has leaked.
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 08:48 PM
Jul 2016
https://search.wikileaks.org/?query=russia|putin&exact_phrase=&any_of=&exclude_words=&document_date_start=&document_date_end=&released_date_start=&released_date_end=&new_search=True&order_by=most_relevant#results

I won't argue with you that the source of this might be Russian, but Wikileaks aren't gods here... I figure that would be obvious from some of their underwhelming leaks, such as the one they did recently against Erdogan (which pretty obviously wasn't Russian?)

Wikileaks are just looking for fame, if they had some sensational anti-Republican news, why wouldn't they leak it? This attack on the source honestly makes no sense to me. Also, if all you have to do to shit-stir and division-sow is post primary documents without any editorialization, doesn't that mean you should step back and do some introspection?

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
2. But they haven't released any RNC and Trump communications.
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 01:14 PM
Jul 2016

Seems like a Trump propaganda outfit to me. And an illegal one at that.

sarae

(3,284 posts)
7. exactly.
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 01:20 PM
Jul 2016

I remember the news saying the Russians did this about a month ago...they must have some evidence of that.

Between Putin "endorsing" Trump, Trump saying he "likes" Putin, and Paul Manafort's ties to pro-Russian politicians (http://www.politifact.com/global-news/article/2016/may/02/paul-manafort-donald-trumps-top-adviser-and-his-ti/)...there's something really shady going on.

kerry-is-my-prez

(8,133 posts)
17. And Trump saying he will not stop Russia from invading any non-paying NATO country. That alone
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 01:36 PM
Jul 2016

should disqualify him from being president. Also his fascist/Hitleresque language and actions. If Trump were to win, I would not be surprised to see him being "taken out" by the CIA, or some other covert government organization. He is THAT dangerous.

sarae

(3,284 posts)
21. Yes! Thank you...his recent NATO remarks!
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 01:41 PM
Jul 2016

WTF is going on? It's so unsettling that Trump will be getting security briefings starting...Monday?!!

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
25. Do you not...
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 02:34 PM
Jul 2016

... Find it odd that wikileaks seems to ignore Russia? It's like they have an agenda or something.

notadmblnd

(23,720 posts)
39. I asked if you believe that the leader of Russia wrote each and every one of those emails?
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 04:00 PM
Jul 2016

If not then my next question to you is- are you ok with the total corruption of the DNC and the primary process that was exposed by those emails?

To me, it does not matter who exposed the corruption. It is the corruption that is the problem. And if you are okay with that- I don't want to hear any complaining when the GOP engages in the same despicable tactics in the General Election.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
53. Your question was not to me.
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 04:58 PM
Jul 2016

But the point... you fucking missed it.

I'm not necessarily defending the DNC here. My point was, and is, that Wikileaks seems to have a particular focus. We don't see these "leaks" (read: illegally acquired) from the RNC, or the notoriously corrupt Russian government. Why do you think that is?

For the record, I do not believe these "leaks" represent corruption. Parties protecting their own interests is not corruption. Having knowledge of what a Super PAC may or may not be doing is not the same as engaging in the activity itself.

I do not oppose actively countering many of the lies spread about Clinton online by supposed Sanders supporters. I do oppose actual paid trolling.

 

annavictorious

(934 posts)
67. There was no corruption.
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 06:38 PM
Jul 2016

There's nothing corrupt about addressing untrue allegations about the political party entrusted to your care.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
43. Or they get a paycheck....
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 04:11 PM
Jul 2016

I would not be at all surprised if that franchise has been co-opted by the FSB.

ismnotwasm

(41,989 posts)
5. Gee they sure don't like Hillary
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 01:17 PM
Jul 2016

Do you think they want Trump to win?

Quite frankly, I don't see much in the emails--kind of gossipy, and not the DNC's finest hour, but mostly--meh.

 

bobthedrummer

(26,083 posts)
13. Because I loathe Trump and love the Truth no matter where it's found unlike your opinions DanTex
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 01:27 PM
Jul 2016

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
16. You've got a bit of a love triangle going on there.
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 01:30 PM
Jul 2016

You love wikileaks, wikileaks loves Trump. Could get complicated.

 

beachbum bob

(10,437 posts)
11. where is stuff on RNC???...trump? on pence? on conservatives?
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 01:25 PM
Jul 2016

just saying.....looks like an agenda to me

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
12. Post your credit card numbers and social security number before you praise these anarchists.
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 01:26 PM
Jul 2016

[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)
[/center][/font][hr]

one_voice

(20,043 posts)
14. No. it's not.
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 01:28 PM
Jul 2016

This is a slimy agenda driven pile of shit.

Until they release the same kinds of emails on the GOP/RNC etc..they're not looking for transparency they're looking to further their cause. If they truly cared about who was doing what...more than just Hillary & the DNC would be a target.

Who or what does releasing these help?

Fuck those Putin loving ass kissers.

Hekate

(90,714 posts)
18. Where's the info on TRUMP & the RNC & the RIGHT WING? Hells bells.
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 01:37 PM
Jul 2016

Christ on a trailer hitch, are they WORKING for Trump? Are they working out of Putin's hacker houses?

When the ONLY shit they hack and release is about Democrats, WHAT THE HELL ARE THEY THINKING?

What conclusions do they EXPECT us to come to?

ismnotwasm

(41,989 posts)
30. You know what I adore the most about wikileaks?
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 03:07 PM
Jul 2016

Those promotional ads for things like Bitcoin and Tor at the bottom. Bitcoin ~loves~ it's anonymity and Tor promotes "encryption making it harder to intercept internet communications" so apparently wikileaks is promoting the curious idea of white hat-I'm-the-sheriff-in-town hacking while working, apparently for Putin.


Andy823

(11,495 posts)
31. No, it's not worth a look
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 03:07 PM
Jul 2016

When only the stuff from the DNC is posted, and they ignore the RNC, when it comes from Russia, when there has been no verification that I now of at to whether or not this is real, or made up shit., the NO it's not worth taking a look at. Also the primaries are over and we need to get with the program of taking down Trump, not trying to relive the primaries.

 

bobthedrummer

(26,083 posts)
32. Why are so many of the posters sounding like ultrareactionary throwbacks-with ad hominem bs? CTlike
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 03:20 PM
Jul 2016

imho.

emulatorloo

(44,131 posts)
41. Lol. This very post of yours is an ad hominem attack.
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 04:05 PM
Jul 2016

'ultrareactionary throwbacks-with ad hominem bs? CTlike' = classic ad hominem

emulatorloo

(44,131 posts)
55. Proud hippie wannabe, fan of Sid and Marty Krofft too!
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 05:07 PM
Jul 2016

Was too young in the 60's to be a hippie, but loved everything about them and they shaped my soul and spirit. I did marry a hippie though.

That being said, technically it is a LGBT flag. With a lit candle to additionally signify mourning for the wonderful people this world lost in Orlando.

The skeleton is because I like Halloween and Day of The Dead iconography.

My name is "Emulatorloo" cuz I am an amateur musician who is fascinated by the classic keyboard samplers put out by U.S. Synthmaker, E-MU.

This one is my favorite:

http://www.sonicstate.com/synth/emulatoriii/

It sounds amazing and I was able to buy a used one for not too much money from a nice musician on the internet maybe 8 yrs ago!


I studied "communications" in school and read Marx and Gramchi to help me figure it all out, and my political thinking was really shaped by Marx.

So tell me more about yourself?

tandot

(6,671 posts)
34. How come they only focused only on HRC and the DNC?
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 03:23 PM
Jul 2016

As long as they don't release anything on Trump or Republicans, I assume is a right-wing smear job. Not clicking on the link. Posting that link says a lot about you.

Peregrine

(992 posts)
38. How does wikileaks make Money?
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 03:44 PM
Jul 2016

Foreign governments as blackmail, or buying the most Sensitive? Would Russia pay for info on US Foreign espionage?

JSup

(740 posts)
48. I'm more interested...
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 04:43 PM
Jul 2016

...in Republican dirt right now.

It's much more fun invading the privacy of my enemies than my allies.

randr

(12,412 posts)
56. If we do not belive in transparencey
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 05:14 PM
Jul 2016

we do not deserve power of any kind. It has always been a principle of the Democratic Party to stay ahead of the Republicans in regards to an open an accessible government. We have no fear if we are sure we have behaved with integrity. If it is discovered that we have reason to hide our actions we need to find new leadership.

randr

(12,412 posts)
58. I fear you may be attacking the messenger
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 05:19 PM
Jul 2016

They do not make the stuff they find under the rug up and they are equal opportunity exposers.

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
61. You made the point they are "equal opportunity exposers" and I am asking you have they leaked
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 05:25 PM
Jul 2016

Trump's info.

LenaBaby61

(6,974 posts)
64. Equal opportunity exposes...
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 06:27 PM
Jul 2016

My fanny

Of course they have an agenda. Theirs, tRumps and a Pro-Russian agenda.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
79. Everything
Sun Jul 24, 2016, 07:33 AM
Jul 2016
What in hells name does that have to do with any of this


Everything. Vladimir Putin and his minions are trying to manipulate our elections.


And I laugh at internet bravado.





 

reddread

(6,896 posts)
83. the stuff that dribbles from Trump's lips is much like what these emails expose
Sun Jul 24, 2016, 08:32 AM
Jul 2016

what could they find in Trump's shadowy recesses?
that he isnt a racist, religious bigot with antisemitic undertones?
that wikileaks...

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
63. I assume you have confirmed their authenticity, right?
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 05:59 PM
Jul 2016

I'd want to know that before bothering to view them. Too many ratfuckers at work in politics.

Arazi

(6,829 posts)
74. They're true. DNC staffer apologizes for email on Sanders religion
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 10:53 PM
Jul 2016

Top DNC staffer apologizes for email on Sanders’ religion

A top staffer at the Democratic National Committee has apologized after suggesting that the organization use Bernie Sanders’ religious beliefs against him in the Democratic primary.

One email among the thousands of internal DNC messages released this week by Wikileaks showed DNC CFO Brad Marshall questioning Sanders’ Jewish faith, and suggested that painting the candidate as an atheist “could make several points difference” in several late primary contests.


(snip)

In a copy of a Facebook post provided by a source, Marshall said that he “deeply” regrets his “insensitive, emotional emails.” His Facebook page, upon searching, is private, and the statement is the only content viewable to the public.

The entire Facebook post: “I deeply regret that my insensitive, emotional emails would cause embarrassment to the DNC, the Chairwoman, and all of the staffers who worked hard to make the primary a fair and open process. The comments expressed do not reflect my beliefs nor do they reflect the beliefs of the DNC and its employees. I apologize to those I offended.”


http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/top-dnc-staffer-apologizes-for-email-on-sanders-religion-226072#ixzz4FGyq4G1a

 

reddread

(6,896 posts)
84. and now that they have?
Sun Jul 24, 2016, 08:33 AM
Jul 2016

ratfucking is like fight club.
or calling out a witch.
its only ratfucking when no one finds out.

 

Sheepshank

(12,504 posts)
66. So RNC had no back room discussions and emails on dumping Trump?
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 06:37 PM
Jul 2016

Why doesnt Russia hack those and hand it over to Wiki....one can only wonder.

Demsrule86

(68,586 posts)
69. You should title this...
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 07:41 PM
Jul 2016

In order to help Trump and cause problems for Dem unity Wiki-Leaks under Russian control has released emails which may or may not be real.

Demsrule86

(68,586 posts)
75. Not for me...hence forward I will ignore such posts
Sun Jul 24, 2016, 07:19 AM
Jul 2016

I will not play into the hands of the right or of Trump loving Putin. The primaries are over. If I had the power I would hide all such posts. It is intended to divide,demoralize and depress the Democratic vote. I don't understand the motivation of those who post this crap.

Demsrule86

(68,586 posts)
92. Nope
Tue Jul 26, 2016, 09:41 AM
Jul 2016

I am all about electing Hillary Clinton as president...She is my role model. I will brush off all Primary nonsense...and work to elect Hillary. Comrade Heil Trump must be defeated. Hillary will be a great president.

<iframe width="854" height="480" src="

" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

ericson00

(2,707 posts)
76. Wikileaks is an un-American & anti-American operation
Sun Jul 24, 2016, 07:24 AM
Jul 2016

and I will not give a crap about anything they say.

book_worm

(15,951 posts)
89. So it's worth a look to see the E-mails of Clinton as Sec of State and the DNC? but not
Sun Jul 24, 2016, 03:12 PM
Jul 2016

anything from the RNC or Trump?

nolabels

(13,133 posts)
91. You know Bob, really the crowd that clocks into this place is mostly the same
Sun Jul 24, 2016, 04:59 PM
Jul 2016

Folks who think that crap that happened with 9/11 was legit. You can't show or tell them nothing, they just have to find out the hard way. Just a pitiful shame

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