2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThis is not an insider-outsider election.
It is a battle for the soul of a nation. It is a Manichean Battle between the forces of light and the forces of darkness.
It is the most consequential election since Lincoln-Douglas.
Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)Fear should never be the premise of ones vote. Wisdom and truth should be.
ismnotwasm
(41,989 posts)Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)emulatorloo
(44,131 posts)I feel like you need to step back and look at the big picture, rather than continually defaulting to primary mode and demonizing HRC.
We have a progressive platform, and as Bernie has noted HRC's policy positions align with his own policy positions.
We have lots of positive things to say, while the GOP has nothing but fearmongering about African Americans, Latinos, non-Christian Religions and so one.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)Who was the last presidential candidate who threatened to kill the families of terrorists?
Who was the last presidential candidate who said Mexicans are "rapists and drug dealers" ?
Who was the last presidential candidate who wanted to ban an entire group of people from coming to America?
Who was the last president who wanted to change libel laws so it would be more difficult to criticize public figures?
Who was the last presidential candidate who said nuclear proliferation is of no moment?
Who was the last presidential candidate to call women pigs?
Who was the last presidential candidate who said he would rather have Jews than blacks count his money because the former are specially gifted when it comes to handling money? That was a veritable twofer. He dissed two minorities at once.
Maybe if folks would have paid a little more attention to Hitler 6,000,000 of my co-religionists would have not been terminated and four continents would not have been thrown into war. I have read a lot about that era and have come to the same conclusion as anybody who has studied it. While a lot of people didn't hate Trump's Hitler's targets as much as him they didn't care that much about them either.
Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)Trump is not Hitler. He was a personal friend and contributor of the Clintons and their foundation. Shit they attended his wedding.
Trump is a idiot who was a dem for decades.....
Republican (198799; 200911; 2012present)[2]
Independent (201112)
Democratic (until 1987; 200109)
Reform (19992001)
His hyperbole is just a feeding frenzy by the media and the death of the republican party a it eats its own. Shit he doesn't give a rats ass about anything or anyone.
I am shocked by his statements and sad that people speak this way....but death is often ugly and that is what we are witnessing.
Sorry I would provide you with shitty things other candidates have aid in the paste but for now I have only one hand and and not good yet at searching, cutting and referencing...but there are lot of rude and shitty things said behind closed doors by lots of politicians over the decades.
Fear is not good.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)So in other words you can't cite any major party candidates who have publicly * expressed such anti-semitic, sexist, racist, misogynistic and xenophobic thoughts. I know Nixon trafficked in such language but not publicly. Even he knew the value of paying public respect to democratic norms and the rule of law.
Thank you for agreeing with me...
I have black, Hispanic, and Muslim friends. They can't retreat into their whiteness to protect them from Trumpism. Their very appearance gives them away.
Fear is often a good thing. That's why folks put "Beware of dog" signs on their property. Many have ignored them to their eternal detriment.
*In fairness to Trump he didn't make his anti-semitic/anti-black insult in public. He did tell a Jewish group they were great negotiators. I wonder if he thinks that's in their DNA.
Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)I explained my disability sorry it was not enough for you.
I am not afraid of Trump...I have been forced to deal with his kind for a long long time. Men who hate woman or are predators to woman or use their wealth and power to subjugate and control woman.
Woman unlike men are never safe...so we learn to protect ourselves.
Fear is not healthy.
Good luck my friend.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)I would like to know the reasoning that leads one to believe Trump is a generic candidate.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)And as someone with Jewish ancestry I am well aware of the dangers of fascism. authoritarianism, ultra nationalism, scapegoating, and anti-semitism.
It can happen here, maybe not to my group, but to others.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)About why some people wouldn't defend their premise.
And I agree that trump is a unique threat and not a generic republican
Grey Lemercier
(1,429 posts)(I liked them both equally, so take your pick)
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)A person has to be basking in privilege to not realize the threat Trump presents. if I was a member of a group he has singled out I would be shuddering.
tallahasseedem
(6,716 posts)than real world politicking. Luckily, this should fade away soon...
andym
(5,444 posts)which would change the very economy of the nation later by eliminating slavery. This year there are no reformers on the ballot, but instead we have a dangerous demagogue, Trump, who is doing much better in the polls than he should be against a mainstream opponent who has been effectively slandered/painted by the GOP.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)his own party, and Johnson was a stay-the-course Democratic establishment candidate trying to build on the legacy of the previous Democratic President.
The good news is Johnson won handily (and so should Clinton).
The more worrisome aspect of the analogy is that Kennedy-Johnson were the agents of change at a time when the nation desperately wanted the change that Kennedy outlined and Johnson brought to fruition, but then Johnson's inclination toward foreign intervention brought his tenure in office to a premature end when the populist wing of the Democratic Party would not unite around him. Likewise, Obama was the agent of change when elected, but he accomplished his agenda in the first two years of his first term and has been playing defense since then; now, Hillary is the defender of Obama's status quo and Trump is the agent of change at a time when the nation desperately wants change again.
Hillary defeats Trump like Johnson beat Goldwater, but she needs to be the agent for further change which the people want to avoid Johnson's fate in the long run. The country is no longer divided on ideological lines (both Melania and Ivanka Trump's speeches could have been {or were} given at a Democratic convention, and both got wild applause with traditionally progressive lines). The country (the globe, really) is dividing on populist versus establishment/elitist lines. The vast right-wing machine will define us on the wrong side of that line if we let them.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)Goldwater was an extremist but he didn't show contempt for the rule of law and democratic norms. If Goldwater elevated states rights over individual rights Trump elevates the rule of the strong man over all.
MBS
(9,688 posts)Trump, and especially the people who support him, are a clear and present danger to the Republic.
If Trump wins, we - not just Americans, but the world - are really, truly finished.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)My gf is from the Philippines. I often criticize the choices they make. Their current president is Trump like who has threatened to drop drug dealers out of airplanes and disband their legislature.
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)Outside (Trump) vs Insider (Clinton)
And a battle for the soul of a nation (R vision) vs a battle for the soul of a nation (DEM vision)
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)immature, under-qualified, and thin-skinned.