It doesn't take much spin, really.

Like I said, good way to spin it.

Putin isn't as all powerful as he is talked about and we already know who it was. I believe the FBI already admitted it was not Russians (it was a hacker by the name of Guccifer).

How are we going to solve our own problems if we constantly rely on fear of a foreign actor to dismiss our own issues? Not to mention it is not a good sign that we are not even at the presidency and cold war language is escalating.

The next 4 years are going to be incredibly tense and it is not all Russia's fault. Cautious and measured approaches are needed. This isn't Saddam that we are dealing with.

We'll have to see what further information comes out, but that premise is...questionable.

Also the peculiar notion that somehow we're prospectively finding fault with Russia for anything but its own actions and with the GOP for anything but its own actions.

Both very separate from our responsibility for our own actions.

Sorry, I didn't get that comment. I never said that.

enough of this.

Again I don't get your point

CrowdStrike stands fully by its analysis and findings identifying two separate Russian intelligence-affiliated adversaries present in the DNC
https://www.crowdstrike.com/blog/bears-midst-intrusion-democratic-national-committee/

***Edit: I now understand the difference between the two Guccifers. The original is referred to below, and claims to have hacked the DNC server. Guccifer 2.0, the source of the current DNC email dump, is also Romanian and denies any association with Russia other than 'hating' it. Says he is motivated to act against 'Illuminati'. See vice interview: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/dnc-hacker-guccifer-20-full-interview-transcript

Whereas HRC not so much. I can see why the people that tell the PTB what they need to know are scared to brief Trump on some of our 'juice' secrets...he will spill the beans. There is not doubt about it.

Obviously he won't do pretense of any kind, think how dangerous that is to a world built on appearances?

Donald Trump's and Vladimir Putin's Shared Agenda Should Alarm Anyone Concerned About Democracy

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8043463

All the side links in the story should be read IMHO. nt

Perfect.

Of course we need the "experts" to confirm this but....

It works so much better as allusion and the old "well some people say" stuff. Get the journalists digging. There are several stories already out there.

What would be really delicious, is that we not only overwhelm his Presidential bid at the box office, but we scotch his Russian financing, too. Would love a two-fer there.

I would love Rachel to do one of her 15-20 minute opening monologues on this.

I already sent an email to Rachel. Hope she gets more supporting documentation!

Once again, and as always, it will take print journalists leading the way to get the TV folks talking about it.

and opinion pieces recently and in months previous tiptoeing around the edges of the story Talking Points Memo has broken.

After this breaks on evening TV, watch out. I'm no particular fan of Bill Maher, but he just speculated that the party might even somehow remove Trump from the nomination before election day.

how millenials have been slighted since they've only managed to get the head of the DNC fired, and 80% of the Dem platform to conform with what they wanted. Clearly, that's not enough. I think Clinton was supposed to allow them to pick her VP, too.

just because some are trying to spin one way does not hide the fact that Russians did break in, and that it is awfully convenient for this to be so well timed.

to elect a guy who wants to pull out of NATO.

Yep. Go on with your primary hurting.

the enterprise. For some activities, however, public and private would have to adhere to the same regulations, e.g., dumping hazardous waste (although DOD famously has a history of believing laws don't apply to its activities!). Re:ethics, it depends on whether particular standards have been adopted by, e.g., the particular industry or profession (to a certain extent this is also true of compliance, where an industry standard can drive a greater duty than that required by regulations or compliance guidelines alone) but there are so many variables that it's not something that can can be cleanly summarized here... I suggest you do a search online for whatever it is you're most interested in learning about.

Thought that was a RW tactic...

it's one thing to see commies under every bed, it is another not to be able to see that a foreign govt, any foreign govt, is playing in our elections. catapulting propaganda. for a man that has strong financial ties to some very unsavory characters. and a man who probably wont be able to pay off his loans if he loses.

by the Chinese?

I have not seen any actual evidence for these memes that are being thrown out: Neither in the posts on this site nor elsewhere. Where are we going to go with this once we whip up (some) people into a frenzy and scared citizens start sounding the horns for action against something that is really a distraction and a political meme?

There is plenty to hit Trump with. We should not step into unknown territory (well since the 50s anyway), particularly at a time like this.

I don't see the problem.

which is the problem. Up until yesterday the government itself was saying that the initial discussion of it being Russians was not the case (when they found it to be Guccifer).

And FAIR has a balanced report on this as well:


The actual culpability of Russia for those leaks, it’s worth noting, is still unproven. The only three parties that have audited the hack are contractors for the US government, and the DNC’s initial story has since changed considerably. At first the DNC (and by extension their security firm CrowdStrike) said ”no financial, donor or personal information appears to have been accessed or taken,” but this later turned out not to be true at all.

Six weeks since the hack was first revealed by the Washington Post (6/14/16), no one in the US government, including the FBI and White House (who have reportedly reviewed the situation in detail), have implicated or even suggested Russian involvement in the leak–neither on the record nor anonymously. Thus far, all suggestions to this effect have taken place outside the organs of the United States government — a common and deliberate conflation that even led to this correction in the Vox recap of the situation (7/23/16):

Thus far, the Obama administration has avoided any such claims. Indeed, if one reads carefully, so have the security firms in question. Buried in the followup report by the Washington Post (6/20/16) alleging “confirmation” of Russian involvement is the admission by the three firms (the “experts” Clinton’s camp refers to) that they cannot be sure WikiLeaks’ alleged source Guccifer 2.0 is Russian, let alone an agent of “Putin”:

Your contention doesn't get any better from there.

Nothing leftist about Putin.

This would not only end his campaign but in all likelihood bring his house of cards tumbling down.

for his business empire while he is pres? not the kind of thing he can put into a blind trust. and certainly his kids are gonna be making licensing deals all over the place.
i dont see a way for him to untangle himself. and i sure dont believe he wont be self dealing.

read this long article from New York Times Magazine. Putin has troll farms and is capable of discrediting American journalists

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/magazine/the-agency.html

Makes me wonder about them as well.

All too anxious to dismiss Trumps business ties with Russian mobsters/oligarchs and can't seem to connect the dots re: his recent position on NATO which runs counter to 60 plus years of SOP US policy for Repub and Dem presidents.

But yeah, nothing to see here.

Buh bye.

going to call me out. Nice try at trolling.

to keep the $$$ flowing to the MIC, hence the sudden uptick
in the bad Russian posts here and elsewhere. The Russians just
like the US play to their Interest$. Its a pathetic game.

Seems that some around these parts care more about victimhood than about the fact that a foreign entity is hacking our emails.

Putin's "troll farms."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/02/putin-kremlin-inside-russian-troll-house

it could very well not only make Trump look even more crooked and dishonest, but the country has a lot of immigrants and children of immigrants from Cold War-era Eastern Europe. This could help chip into his white vote, perhaps bigly.

no one could go "hey look, someone shit in the vegetable crisper"

It's good that she's resigning the post. She should have a long time ago. She should have after she went to the Times and insulted millennial voters (not exactly helpful) while doubling down on keeping pot smoking a crime. (Also not helpful)

Frankly, I lost respect for her when she allied herself with Sheldon Adelson to stop medical marijuana reform in FL in 2014. I'm completely fine with the results of the primaries.

Fact is, except for the people going "STOP PICKING ON DEBBIE", I suspect most folks are ready to move on and have a unified convention.

And as an Atheist, I feel the guy who insulted Atheists ought to resign as well.

is much bigger than the emails issue.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/cover_story/2016/07/vladimir_putin_has_a_plan_for_destroying_the_west_and_it_looks_a_lot_like.html?wpsrc=sh_all_dt_tw

But we can understand that without trying to pretend that what was revealed in those emails is all fine and jim dandy.

a bit problematic, so to speak.

things. Public endorsements and rigging the primary.

The statement you mentioned does neither.

I said it's problematic. And, offensive.

People here lose their shit over offensive things said, all the time, and some of them- if they get one they think is particularly useful to their narrative, hell, they'll hold onto it for years, even, like a doggie with a chew toy.

So, I am offended by something offensive that was written, and for guidance I am going to remember the many times I have read posts on DU by people saying that they have a god-given (so to speak) right to be profoundly offended when they are offended and don't you dare tell them not to be offended, either.

DWS is doing what she should have done years ago, namely, getting out of the limelight.

someone else. The point wasnt anything she was doing wrong, the point was having a whipping boy.

No one forced DWS to go to the times and double down on keeping pot smoking a criminal offense, or insulting millennial women.

She does not represent what I believe our party stands for or should stand for, so I'm glad we're going to find someone else to head the organization.

Up next, rightwing accuses ISIL of coordinating with Clinton Campaign because of her... blah blah blah.... Seriously... we are better than this.

There are plenty of ways to go after Trump without launching into our own version of "infowars".

That "tie" does not really mean a direct link. No more than the tie to Podesta and Russia (which there is a good chance will get thrown back into the news as well) and the Panama Papers.

I would tend to believe these are more of bad business decisions than direct links.

That is very troubling.

Demonstrates a lack of competency IMO.

The US is involved in just about every election or coup. The Russians have a reputation for being the better spies. Why is anyone surprised? And you seriously don't need to look further than Assange and his blackmail for freedom re. the DNC-gate or whatever its being called.

I am very happy DWS has resigned, so a good outcome is good enough for me. I do think she is making a grave mistake speaking tomorrow. That 85% of Sanders supporters is in jeopardy enough as it is.

Sunshine is the best disinfectant. Don't really care who brings it.

Has fins, gills, and scales, starts stinking as of maybe tomorrow.

The words spoken by Mook occur to me as irresponsible.

If DNC didn't hire the very best security experts who uncovered the years of hacking, no one would have known where the 'leak' came from.

CrowdStrike stands fully by its analysis and findings identifying two separate Russian intelligence-affiliated adversaries present in the DNC
https://www.crowdstrike.com/blog/bears-midst-intrusion-democratic-national-committee/

is a dead and rotting corpse after the revelations of Russia/Putin manipulation US presidential elections in favor of their tinhorn dictator Trump!