I've been an avid Hillary supporter, but Reid wasn't impartial either.

Major difference.

Incompetent blow-hard damaged Bernie's chances with his endless strategic blunders. Too much time feeding we supporters red meat, too little time broadening Bernie's co-alition. Wouldn't let Bernie be Bernie, forced him to go negative when clearly Bernie was uncomfortable with that. Alienated potential voters.

I don't understand the comparison

for Bernie not getting the nomination?

In my mind, the person who fucked up at every turn at broadening Bernie's co-alition. Sure, threw plenty of red meat to you and me. But IMHO alienated more undecideds and Soft Hillary voters (who could have been flipped) than he attaracted. Massive mistake IMHO to make Bernie go so negative before New York. Bernie is not a negative campaigner. You could see how uncomfortable he was with it. And again turned potential voters away.

Basically you are pointing fingers and blaming Harry Reid for Bernie's loss. I am pointing out that the person who most undermined Bernie chances was not Harry Reid but Jeff Weaver. There is absolutely no comparison.

I am a Bernie primary supporter and I appreciate Reid's words. I am not going to sit here while people pretend that Reid is responsible for Bernie's loss.

I have been very bitter about it because I have never had a primary candidate who I'm closer too ideologically. Very rarely has my primary candidate gotten the nomination. Weaver inmo blew it.

Lastly I know that Jeff is a good man and has been a wonderful friend and supporter to Bernie. But he was way in over his head as a campaign manager of a national campaign. He's human just like the rest of us and made mistakes like the rest of us do. One of our fellow DU'ers has helped me to start letting go of my bitterness and I am releasing it more day by day.

And I'm all in for Clinton/Kaine.

My point was that it is absurd for a figure as important as the Senate Majority Leader to state AFTER THE FACT that Bernie got a raw deal from the DNC when he himself was not impartial.

You sound angry.

Angry at the mismangement of Bernie's campaign. As I said a fellow DU'er has helped me start to get over that.

So yr not telling me anything new.

I think you will be hard pressed to find ANY evidence that Reid in his capacity as Senate Majority Leader has given Bernie a raw deal. Because he hasn't.

As all Senators are, he's free to have a preferred candidate in the primary race and help elect that candidate in the political arena.

Yours and other posts in the thread seem to confuse the two things. The performance of his job as Senate majority leader and his support of HRC in primary are two separate things.

This is something we've seen time and time again during our recent primary wars.

Every politician,public person, association who endorsed HRC rather than Bernie was dismissed as 'corrupt' with zero evidence of corruption.

John Lewis is 'corrupt'. Sherrod Brown is 'corrupt'. Senator Warren is 'corrupt'. On and on it went.

To me this is just more of the same. It comes from a place of rigid binary thinking that I can't relate to.

I hope this helps clarify why I'm uncomfortable w some of the replies in the thread.

Take care and

but decided to support Hillary

I am not going to rehash my reasons, it serves no purpose, but I will say your comments do resonate with me

we'll do better...It was a complete joke. SMDH

Nice time to speak up Harry!!!

It is good though too little and too late that now both Congressional leaders have at least acknowledged this.

This pattern is deadly dangerous, there was nothing to be gained worth injecting more cynicism into the mix for voters if you care about the future of the party or the nation.

Now Sanders may have lost anyway. But this just adds to the discontent that supporters like me feel.

Sanders supporters? Nothing else makes sense.

It makes perfect sense.

His transparent attempts to smooth things over after he felt that Sanders campaign was sufficiently crippled is only fooling those who want to be fooled. The DNC went too far.

do only see a little.... but even that amount of vision leaves us with disgust.

Sanders was campaigning in a uphill struggle From the start. The DNC has lost all credibility.

The exact opposite of a lack of credibility.

Entitled to your opinion.

It's pretty unanimously recognized as kicking ass when it comes to the views of progressives.

What exactly would the DNC being truly impartial have done to swing things to Bernie? Nothing. No one should give a fuck about this.

He's now just raining on a parade instead of really showing concern.

It's the high school cheerleaders who can't move on.

You don't want the truth, but the truth is that they did Bernie a big favor. Had he actually gotten a shot at the nomination, the republicans and the press would have gone into his past. We never got to know Bernie. The material from his life would have ruined him politically. This way, he gets to have a lot of say in what happens, but doesn't have to suffer for his past behavior writings. Don't think for a moment that the whole republican establishment wasn't praying that he would get the nomination.

I liked his ideas too. But he was too thin skinned and too inexperienced to handle the shitload that was going to hit him as soon as he go the nomination. He would have pulled McGovern and Dukakis numbers. (Both of whom I campaigned for and voted for, just as I would have for Bernie)

You think you know all the inside shit, but you don't. Hillary is neither perfect nor a monster. Bernie isn't either. trump is a perfect monster. Put on you big boy pants and get in the race. Did you not listen to the really smart and accomplished people who have been putting the case before you since Monday. If not, then we have discovered the fucking problem. You don't give a fuck about anyone but yourself.

See how effective it is to try to convince someone of your point of view when you denigrate and attack them. You are all contrite and ready to see my side now that I have behaved just like you.

You realize Brad Marshall is STILL on the DNC as CFO right?

Just let it go and stop doing trump's work for him.

If you are the kind of person who practices introspection, you will have to find yourself asking how you feel about helping to put three 30-year-old scalia's on the supreme court.

If you think that some inter-orginizational tiff is more important than what trump will do to the world, then my last post stands. You are the problem. If you watched the convention and heard Kaine, Biden, and Obama speak about Hillary and still prefer trump over her,then you are the problem. If you think that it is okay to help elect a homophobic, nationalistic, psychopath as president because your flawed candidate got beat by another flawed candidate, you are playing games at the level of high school rivalries. You know where your team is god-annointed and the other team is the devil's spawn. If you continue to swallow and spew back the right wing lies and propaganda about Hillary being the "worst person in the world", then you are the problem.

Let it go, dude. We have real problems to fix.

And undoubtedly there will be a shake up of the DNC going forward.

Hope you enjoy the last night of the convention....

You seem to have no higher motive than tit-for-tat.

Of course you demonstrate that you have no idea what a political party is or how party organizations work or what their purpose is. I'm not a big fan of DWS, but she did what priebus couldn't.

I enjoyed the convention. I'm guessing you avoided watching because someone on the internets told you Hillary was a bad thing, and you might learn something which would make you feel bad about your decisions. No one with any intelligence or information agrees with you, but you go with what feels good for you. It's a big important world, and it takes thought and reflection to navigate it. I can see why some want to pick a simple little message that they think they can handle and stick with it. Of course, that little message (courtesy of the right wing propaganda wing) is a lie told big, but some are more susceptible to being duped. Enjoy you corner.

I'm off to campaign for Hillary. I'll be knocking on doors and registering voters for a while now. You can just stay in the cabin and grind that axe. I'll be listening to people who are doing real things in the real world. You keep packing on that tin foil.

Last edited Fri Jul 29, 2016, 12:46 PM - Edit history (1)

don't have the ability to do their jobs in that spirit they don't deserve to be there.

You just proved it. And they did their job.

Again. Watch the convention. Not on Fox News, but on some channel that tries to be unfazed by the right wing sound machine. I know it will be hard listening to another point of view, but sometimes that what you must do.

Two other former heads of the DNC can see the problem and spoke out about it. Howard Dean and Ed Rendell both called the DNC actions unacceptable as have Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid.

I watched the convention. I complimented Hillary's speech here on the forum.

Still I and other Democrats are not happy about impartial and unfair treatment of their candidate.

Many will leave the party. It would be hard for me to blame them. Some are trying to heal those wounds and be responsible for irresponsible actions at the DNC. Reconciliation is an important part of addressing grievances due to mistakes and poor behavior on the part of others within a party.

The party leaders all understand this and I'm glad they are acting accordingly.

You are going to leave the party because your candidate didn't win. Had he won, trump would be president in January. He didn't win, but you want to do all you can to see that trump is president in January anyway.

Kinda hard to see how that makes you a Democrat.

You still don't get the idea of a political party, do you? Or the purpose of a primary? Or of a convention? This is not a high school football game. Things matter here.

of the rules.

It's unfortunate that you don't seem to care about the Democratic party following it's own rules..

entirely lost on deaf ears. Some can only see the goal of their own team.

If you think this is the only time a political party structure has favored a candidate, you are abysmally lacking in a knowledge of political history. The vaunted rules you favor are changed every election, and nothing like them existed before 1960. Were you in favor of the rules when Bernie castigated the party for using super delegates? Were you then in favor of the rules when Bernie did a complete about fact and pushed to have the super delegates overthrow the people's votes? Equivocate much?

I would hope that you would have read about party structures and the purpose of conventions since you are so upset at the party this forum supports. Parties are groups of interested citizens who desire to have a candidate who mostly supports what they do elected. Please read a little history to see how conventions worked over the last century. Political parties are not democratic institutions. They and their conventions currently exist to select the best and most electable candidate. Were Bernie everything you imagine him to be and Hillary were all that the msm has duped you into believing, then Bernie might be the best person for the job, but he would not be electable. The republicans are currently dealing with the dilemma of having a popularly elected candidate heading their ticket. The job of the party is to elect a member of the party to office. So they were trying.

Whatever imagined disadvantage Bernie had from not being petted by DWS, he garnered much benefit from never being publicly vetted. There was lot of whining that the press never covered Bernie. No. They didn't. If they had gone into his past writings, votes, personal life, political doings, he wouldn't have made it past the Iowa caucuses. He had ideas that I liked (except for his love of the gun lobby). i liked what he said, but I began to question his abilities early on. He was petulant. He reacted to perceived attacks too quickly and without facts to back him up. When questioned about how he would get his policies done, he just said he would do it. Upon being pressed, he declared he would take it to the people. That naivety about political workings was the final straw for me. That lack of experience was the thing I worried about with Obama. I was right. He's getting the hang of it now, but the first four years were a learning experience for him. I didn't want that. Then I became aware of the opo research that Hillary had and wouldn't use, that the republicans had and wouldn't use until he got the nomination. Oh, how they wanted him to get the nomination.

Bernie did not lose because silly DWS didn't like him. He lost. He is a politician. Had Hillary lost and pitched a fit to be lauded and praised at the convention and had her delegates booing and shouting down civil rights leaders at the convention, you would have plotzed. She showed eight years ago how it should be done - with grace and civility. And like all of her supporters, I campaigned and worked for the candidate who did win the election, just as I would have done had Bernie won.

Perhaps you are mixed up about the name of the party (upper cast) and the word (lower case). Let's suppose the name of the party was the Socialist Party. Does that mean that you would think no one should be able to have a say about the candidate unless they were a part of the elite committee? What would that mean for the Independent Party?

Basically, you have been hoodwinked, bamboozled, and duped by twenty years of right wing propaganda. If Hillary were the monster that you imagine, how could sainted Bernie bring himself to support her? Or Elizabeth Warren? Or any of the dozens of decent, progressive, caring people who spoke at the convention. Somewhere here, a light bulb should go on for you. The AHA moment.

You have a choice. There may be better ways of doing things, but this is how it's going to happen here. Hillary or Trump? To paraphrase the last line in your response, it's unfortunate that you don't seem to care about the country, the people of this country, making progress toward a better world, or keeping a real monster out of the white house.

about the workings of the DNC that you do not care that trump becomes president. And you claim that I don't comprehend. If you are so concerned that "wrong behavior" be dealt with, why do you not care that a monster like trump and all of his "wrong behavior" will be rewarded? What about Bernie supporting the gun lobby? Isn't that "wrong behavior". How about Bernie marching with the Sandinistas in a "Down With America" rally?

See. I think you are being disingenuous. You don't really give a rat's ass about the DNC except that you happen to lose in the primary. Now you grasp at reasons to not accept or move forward. It's kind of pathetic. Bernie handled it. Almost all of the thinking members of the movement handled it. Just a few still kick and whine about how rough they were treated, how bad all the other guys were. You keep harping on the point I have already handled. Over and over and over. Never addressing any of the information I have given you. I like to think you already know all that stuff. I'm depressed that you still can't move on.

I comprehend all the "gravity of the situation". About .1 g.

That you have been hoodwinked is the sad thing. You prove it every time you trot out another right wing meme about how bad Hillary is. She is a wonderful person who has actually done more for children and the needy than almost anyone else in the party. Or anyone else who has run for president. Your image of her is entirely the product of the right wing. Sorry if that seems condescending. I just don't see how pointing out that you are the product of simple propaganda and have eaten it up so willingly can be seen as uplifting.

I've tried. You haven't. So I will go on to people who will learn and discuss in an intellectually honest fashion. Fire your remaining shot at my retreating back and tell yourself how clever you are. Tell yourself "Yeah! I finally won".

dealt with. Thankfully others within the party understood the problem and are dealing with it.

Cheers...

Concentrate on what went wrong in the primary instead of electing a Democrat in the GE...Bernie was going to lose no matter what. You need votes from POC to win primaries and he never connected with them. He ran a good race...He should be proud. I am very happy about how he stood up for all Americans by endorsing and supporting Hillary...we must defeat Trump...so let it go...and in the next non-presidential years...work on fixing it.

We can't attack the party and the nominee and then expect people to vote Democratic. It would cost us the election...so no we can't ...after the election roll up your sleeves and have at it.

very important in the general election. Do you think if we don't talk about it ever that drumpf won't bring it up? It's the only thing he can beat her on. He is definitely not the nominee because of insider politics. He's a conman and an asshole, and the DNC just handed him a weapon for increasing his chance to win.

It doesn't fucking matter anymore. Grow up.

The DNC handed this to drumpf. Good job.

of the world, and quit complaining about it."

Oh, thank you for explaining things to us, Daddy!

Democracy absolutely depends on a fair election process that voters can depend on. It is absolutely crucial to fight for that. Dems used to understand that, and Repugs used to be the ones yelling get over it when evidence of wrong doing was uncovered or suspected. It makes me sick to see so-called Dems justifying the rigging of the primaries.

These guys maintain a swing of as much as 184 seats going from Hillary to Bernie for stuff that went on in the various states
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6J1ecILnk3UUy1KZ2FUT29iQ1E/view?pref=2&pli=1

These guys also have roughly similar findings
http://www.hollerbackfilm.com/electoral-system-in-crisis/

Beyond that:
- the DNC was stabbing Bernie in the back in the media and pitching Hillary
- the DNC made their offices available to Hillary - not fairly to Sanders
- the DNC helped to squelch the media on Sanders in 2015 - in part from the debate schedule that was done to minimize his exposure in some of the worst times to have a debate
- when Bernie's data was compromised, the DNC did nothing. When Hillary's data was compromised, they ran to the media to paint Sanders campaign as crooked - way over the top

That behavior also cost Sanders votes.

And then there's this business about the Hillary Victory Fund
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/dnc-leak-clinton-team-deflected-state-cash-concerns-226191
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/dnc-leak-shows-mechanics-of-a-slanted-campaign-w430814
where Clinton got tens of millions via very questionable/fraudulent methods

And where one legal team was fighting for Hillary and the DNC - so Bernie's lawsuit on his data ... was like a legal fight with Clinton

In my opinion from all of the above taken collectively, the overall effect puts the result of elected delegates in some question. Would it have changed the superdelegates votes? I doubt it. Would the DNC have gone along with an Independent as leader? I doubt that too.

It was amazing Bernie got as far as he did. I do not wish to debate this heavily. I'm sure there are Hillary and even Bernie supporters who feel differently.

umm, not very likely in this case..

Seriously. What the fuck is it?

right after this election...

The chair was only the tip of the iceberg.

Debbie Wasserman Schultz should have been ridden out of town on a rail. Instead she gets kicked upstairs. Perceptions matter. Obama's slogan was yes we can. Hillarys seems to be "Yes I will--and you can't stop me".

We need to tighten up the ship. Our progressive message wins every time. When delivered to the public they support it. That is the Democrats message. We are being ratfucked. Nice thing is the ratfuckers have outed themselves as the backwash of America.

How could I miss the connection...

I disagree with the direction of Reid's comments. Not the factual aspect behind them. The connection in my comment is extremely simple to get.

I really could not care less. He was lucky the Ds let him be a temporary D and get access to the party apparatus.

that he was not going to be another Nader. It is why he has endorsed Clinton.

So he has played the game the way he said he would, and still you complain.

I suppose you will object if he continues to caucus with the Democrats in the Senate?

his side is. Over the nights of the debates, as if that would have helped him. If he'd run independently, he's have gotten no attention whatsoever.

He can caucus with Republicans if he chooses. I doubt that would happen. But enough of his or on behalf of his threats. He is irrelevant now. He does not seem the type (it is more others on his behalf) to sulk and caucus with Republicans.

We need the passion!!” tweeted Symone Sanders (no relation), his former national press secretary. “But let me be clear – NO ONE STOLE THIS ELECTION! Team Sanders we did AMAZING WORK. But we lost. It’s a hard reality for some.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/bernie-sanders-stolen-election-226161#ixzz4FfChgOGp
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook

Riiight.

Being treated fair and having something stolen isn't necessarily the same thing.

Harry is right .

I always defer to the youth. After all they always have the needs of the many in mind and never put themselves or their sense of unfairness before others.

I can't find the sarcasm emoji.

Someone often leads to a breakdown in communication. Those aren't septengenerians pouting in the streets of philly. I think you took my meaning very well my friend.

Very use to being insulted here. Nothing new at all...

Totally unaware selfishness of my children, when they were too young to grasp the bigger picture. Youth may indeed be wasted on the young but I have no problem with that. We have all been there.

candidate rather than be neutral? Where the CFO of that group would suggest using a person's religion to taint their campaign?

Holy crap!

Who would do such a thing?

That makes them cynical then they lose hope and drop out or worse yet become republicans. Believe this. 20 years ago Bernie would not have been allowed to run on a major party's ticket. Neither would Hillary. You gotta get involved. Be patient. Elect people like yourself or Bernie. Change from within the party is lasting change. Change from the outside is greeted as an attack and meets much more blow back. Learn from this loss, be proud of the progress you have made on your platform and build on it.

Work with in the system....

By one whose greatest dilemma to date has been whether to puke out the car window or barf in the Walmart parking lot.
I tried to be sympathetic and even offer encouragement. But now I see you are as unreachable as any rw zealot. Good luck going forward.

So since I am to an amoral sociopath I would be pleased if you would go peddle your wallowing angst-ridden victimhood on someone else. I offered an olive branch and you refused. Fair enough. I am done. Fair winds and following seas.

But I am bound by the TOS to support the actual nominee. Whether or not the nominee was my first choice is immaterial if I wish to remain on DU. I understand disappointment. I have felt it every time a rep wins any election. i knew that Hillary was the likely nominee in March. Perhaps Bernie should have began pulling back on the rhetoric in April. I don't know. But he wanted to help shape the platform and he did that. He has my respect. But as far as folks trying to deligitimize the nominee , that is where I draw the line. Support the nominee or go elsewhere. You agreed to do so.

Your guy lost. Take a day or two off. Let us democrats enjoy our awesome convention. I daresay you would find more sympathy elsewhere. Resorting to profanity belittles you and detracts from whatever point you are trying to make.

The point in that the dnc is a private entity. The point is that a few members sending personal emails did not undermine a doomed from the start campaign.
The point is that beating a dead horse will change nothing.
The point is that I had a bit of sympathy for you and you took a dump on my integrity
The point is that you agreed that in using this site that you would support the nominee.
The point is that it is you who needs to look in the mirror if you want to see someone trying to undermine a campaign.
Oh, I see your point think. I see it very well.

Of someone who accuses others of breaking neutrality who then turns around and violates their own promise to support the nominee. Whether he was given a fair shot or not in no way releases you from your promise to support Hillary. Two wrongs don't make a right. So you need to peddle your poison elsewhere, oath breaker.

makes you happy.

I post a simple thread about an article from TODAY that has the top Democrat in the Senate saying that the DNC treated Sanders unfair. That deserves to be heard.

There is a reason DWS was forced to resign in case you forgot.

Brad Marshall, the CFO of the DNC, was suggesting targeting Bernie Sander for his religion! And he's STILL in the DNC!

That is NOT being neutral and it not acceptable. If a member of the DNC had suggested targeting Hillary's religion we'd never hear the end of it. Somehow it's OK since it's just Bernie though. Right?

And there are plenty of other things in those emails that I can't discuss here which show how much the DNC favored Clinton. It's not cool and that's why 2 former heads of the DNC have said so as has Harry Reid.

You came into the thread mocking the thread and have continued to do so through out. Thanks once again.

and I mean that to the OP

Stir it up. Stir it up.

Most Democrats don't want this shit, but I know a guy from a big old penthouse in New York that loves this kind of post.

No shenanigans against Sanders in the primary.

Reid must just be mistaken or he hasn't been reading DU where they know better.

Or only when he says what you think?

So it all comes down to who was in the know the one working or someone who was a bystander. What was clear to me is that Reid actually had a soft spot for Sanders. So statement colored by empathy.

Cheat? Yeah, but it made you feel bad and now you have guilt so it's ok...