Glad you are still here.
A voice of reason is always ...a voice of reason..

Like Mozart. Perfect clarity. Only the notes needed.

I would say the war protestors were protesting a terrible thing, the war, which was unnecessary. Whereas these people are protesting basically that they did not get the winner they wanted in the primaries and a bunch of trumped up claims of unfairness, none of which have ever seriously been supported by any real evidence.

Their overall intent was to disrupt the convention because they were selfish and like spoiled little kids who didn't get what they wanted so they were throwing a tantrum. I will guarantee that if Sanders had won the nomination and the speakers had been invited to support him, they wouldn't have protested anything.

No they are not. They are protesting because they didn't get the candidate they want. They are just chanting this or that, war, TPP, etc.

They are few, and I may suspect other motives in the mix, but "no more war" is a damfine message.

My biggest complaint about Clinton's acceptance speech is that, despite knowing in advance about this chant, she didn't use the word "war" or talk about finally ending our endless fake wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. I make allowances for her needing the goodwill of the sitting president who likes things as they are, and perhaps last night was too soon to expect her to break with him. But you must realize that when we say "too soon" about wars that began thirteen years ago, we have fallen down an insane and insanely deep rabbit hole.

I was most pleased to hear her tout the diplomatic success of the Iran deal. That gives me hope.

He promised to be better at using them but seriously... He is not totally anti war. These poor uninformed people.

But all over everyone else's. People believe what they want to.its stunning to watch.

"No more war" that really only meant "until there's some reason to start another" would also be a defensible stance.

If all it really meant was "no Clinton," that's a murkier affair.

it is counterproductive. Do you really think Trump is not going to start a war or two whether on purpose or accidentally?

They have had their say again and again. Why is that not enough? More importantly, why are you railing against us for expressing our dismay. They are rude, thuggish and handing the press gift after gift.

To them it's the future of the country.

Agree or disagree, I don't care. But if Trump happens to become president, will you have the same attitude towards protesting him or his policies?

The right to be a raging, sanctimonious asshole doesn't include the right to interfere with others' free speech rights.

If you want to be a "...raging, sanctimonious asshole..." then MY free speech rights say I can call you on it. That goes for being a racist, fascistic asshole too.

It really bugs me when people think that all viewpoints, no matter how heinous, should be heard without an pushback. Preventing pushback interferes with free speech rights too.

express itself to the voters as it chooses.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_association

That first amendment right includes the right to prevent hecklers from interfering with that expression.

it has every right to prevent hostile hijackers from derailing its convention

I would not go to the RNC to do it though.

Can't think of a better place to protest than a convention.

They are speaking out. They have the right and good reason to do so. I find the dismissive and nasty attitude of some to real, truly important issues because it disrupts their victory party to be disturbing.

A tantrum for some
With the majority being professional disruptors, anarchists, or paid republican operatives (see Florida Recount).

These dopes don't seem to get that.

Bernie gets it. They apparently do not.

Tonight will not be an effective time to use this tactic. All they will do is anger the very people they hope to ultimately attract.

Not smart.

But the degree of intolerance against dissent is what I am referring to.

Heckling at a convention for which one was granted the extraordinary privilege of participating is just being a saboteur.

Most of them have never, and will never, vote for a Democrat in the first place. They are simply trouble makers like we had hear during the primaries. Their only goal is to make Democrats look bad, and that only helps Trump. They had their day to protest, now they are just being assholes. JPR would be proud of them so I guess thats why so many from that board are defending the here. I am wiling to bet if Bernie had won, and Hillary supporters pulled this shit, they would be outraged beyond belief.

As a Bernie supporter, that IS what I wanted.

I thought it was fully appropriate--any time there's a heated contest where people pour everything into it, they deserve to see their votes reflected on the floor, even if there aren't enough to win.

... this rather historic event.

And these folks will be actively working to prevent that from happening.

No one should be surprised if these folks are treated with disdain and then marginalized going forward.

how treating them with disdain and then marginalizing them is supposed to convince them to vote against Trump? Or do you feel that their votes are not necessary for Clinton to win? I do, but that's just me. Do you think her lead is wide enough that the votes of Sanders supporters are not necessary?

There is no reason to spend 10 seconds trying to convince them.

Around 90% of Sanders supporters have already moved to support Clinton.

These folks are small in number, and were never going to help us anyway. They were probably always Trump supporters, libertarians, or Greens.

We don't need them.

These are people who would never vote for Hillary under any circumstance. They're people who have never voted for a Democrat & never will. They're not really Bernie supporters at all, they just latched onto him during the primary as the anti-Hillary option. That's why they turned on Bernie when he endorsed Hillary.

You see CSPAN mics pickup lots of things.


http://rare.us/story/elizabeth-warren-heckled-by-we-trusted-you-chants-before-calling-trumps-wall-stupid/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3707580/Now-BERNIE-getting-shouted-desperately-tries-calm-supporters-telling-vote-Hillary-Clinton.html

'Do NOT engage in any kind of protest!': Bernie Sanders urges weeping fans to rally behind 'outstanding' Hillary Clinton

Now you are coming up with this BS? I guess I am going to to clue in again Joe. Grownups don't act like spoiled children who throw tantrums when they don't get what they want. They may have been chanting different thing at different times, but their basic beef was that their guy didn't win and they thought he had been treated unfairly. Well, welcome to big leagues. I guess that they found out that politics is rough, contact sport, but the losers traditionally maintain their dignity, live to fight anther day, and don't act like spoiled children

Had they been delegates at the Republican convention and done the same thing they would have been thrown out on their butts on the concrete right after they were relieved of their convention credentials.

Democrats don't act like they did. But I doubt that any of them have voted for a Democratic candidate except Sanders in the last three or four election cycles and I doubt if they will ever again.

They worst thing is that they made a latrine out of their own nest. It is going to be a cold day in hell before most decent democrats will again support a far left candidate as a Presidential nominee if this is the kind of self centered ideological purists that come in as part of the package deal.

You are confused.

... are not intolerance against dissent. They are reactions against those who think their dissent outweighs the rights of others to be heard at an event that specifically invited them to speak.

The real issue is that the disruptors are not accomplishing anything, other than making people completely unsympathetic to their cause.

In other words, it is disruption for its own sake, given that nothing will be achieved by engaging in it.

The voice of reason, as always!

you'd feel the same way.

I do remember all the defenses of BLM disrupting Bernie during the early primary. How many of the defenders of that are now criticizing these protesters?

while knocking their wrists together is cool? This is a historic first in this country,how about the Bernie or Burn It Down crew just have some fucking respect for the majority who voted for her and take their loss with some grain of dignity. This isn't the "fault" of the majority of people on the convention floor or at home who are just supposed to bow their heads and take it or else be accused of being "authoritarian". Give it a fucking rest already.

I think some may be enjoying it more than they are letting on. And blaming others because they're upset about interruptions to a nominating convention (which is not a protest) is another form of victim blaming.

For some people, "freedom of speech" is definitely 'situational'.

People should be able act like an idiots and try to disrupt some of the most important speeches of our lifetimes by extremely well respected public servants trying to convince the American people not to make the tragic mistake of putting Donald Trump in the White House.

I don’t question the disruptivers’ rights to express their views, I question their judgement, I question their timing, I question their willingness to try to suppress the right of self expression of others, and I question their selfishness in believing that their personal resentment of the irreparable actions of others is more important than the needs of their country.

This is the highest stakes rolling that ever was. The fear of Trump being where he is now makes me miss W.

Are Democrats yelling "lock her up" and holding their wrists together or is it the protesters who say they are voting for Trump, or Libertarians or the Green one? Who is shouting down speakers and disrupting the presentations... are those Republicans wearing delegates credentials and just pretending to be Democrats?

Yes, the primaries are intended for protests, debate and arguments, not the nominating convention. This is nothing but petty, self serving, sour grapes.

I don't associate this with being hard left. Most leftists are sane, rational people.

But, the people we were told we're supposed to welcome into our party are pooping on the carpet.

So, precautions will need to be taken.

It's not a monolithic group.

in order to smuggle themselves inside.

the reasonable ones are behaving themselves as one would hope they would.

the ones who were chanting "Trump" yesterday? Beyond redemption.

there's no screen at that level.

they are funded.

the nominee would have obvious benefits for the GOP.

And then there's the fact that a profile done of the BoB's at the convention revealed that the greater portion of them were "of means" so it's quite probable they needed no outside funding.

I don't have a link, sorry. Just a DU post (that did have a link) that I breezed through.

I didn't hear the Trump chant.

The only way any of their ideas even have a snowballs chance in hell, is for Democrats to be elected up and down the ticket.

If these folks care about this country, they need to be thinking about November. If they weaken the campaign and Trump wins, they will be even further from their own goals. All IMO, of course.

But a little rock and roll is normal in a functioning democracy. I am just disturbed about the vehemence against all dissent that seems to be emerging.

But I admit I got a little hot under the collar when I heard a "protester" yell "Bullshit!" during a John Lewis interview. John Freakin' Lewis.

Too Far!

You appeared from you post to be a sane, reasonable person. However, now you are acting like an over indulgent parent who is defending his kid who is throwing a tantrum because he didn't get what he wanted and now you are having to deal with other adults who are tired of the antics of your child.

But it wasn't the disruptions that bothered me.If they had been protesting all candidates, I'd have shrugged my shoulder about it.

It was the false message that Bernie is a racist that was being spread at the time that I was angry about.

Lol

Read my response.

Coordinated groups have planned this disruption for weeks. I am very sad that the first female President has to be jeered. We will always have that as part of our memory of this event. I will always remember who laughed up their sleeve about it after screeching over BLM for months.

.

Thanks for the link.

You were all for that and you're crying about this. I guess that must be interesting too.

galore. The rest of us see it for what it was. They just want to hate on Hillary and her supporters and mainstream Dems, but they cannot tolerate the same turned towards them.

Sore losers at best.

The fury of some seems to be proportional to their rage against Sanders in the primaries

Some of these protesters are a royal pain, but it is their right to protest, and they will soon be forgotten.

Much more important to keep all eyes and efforts on the prize - beating Trump and hopefully, beating him badly.

The rest of the country probably wants to hear her message as well. Follow her on the campaign trail.

But this is a historic moment. She deserves to be heard, uninterrupted.

In fact, I think they would be in poor taste.

Just like I think Occupy Wall St. should have been more concerned with appealing to the mainstream.

But I'm just bothered by the degree to which all protest is being demonized this week.

We should be tolerant of it to the greatest extent possible, whether Occupy, BLM, or anti-TPPers.

People here are, I think, simply protesting the shouting down of speakers—any and all speakers whether they "deserve it" or not. Including those intoning a prayer or discussing civil rights. We are also protesting the intent of these busters to keep us from listening to these speeches and making up our own minds about them. Which means, we're protesting them trying to censor and shut up speakers.

And, frankly, why do THEY get to demonize anyone and everyone who speaks or is in favor of Clinton...but no one is allowed to do the same to them?

Look. Expressing our disagreement with what they're doing is not in any way the same as spraying them with firehoses or beating them up or jailing them. Even using the word "Demonize" for these rants against the busters is, I think, going too far. Expressing anger and annoyance at someone keeping you from hearing what you want to hear is, I think, justified protest. Along the lines of protesting any kind of censorship. Which this is. They are the ones trying to shut people up.

I get people not liking the timing of the protests, calling it rude etc.... But it's beyond that: it's like some people want a coronation or something. I'll take messy democracy and rudeness over that.

Politicians are politicians, not saints.

passed the far left litmus test. The big tent is great, but people in the tent have to actually be in the tent. If people want to pretend to join the tent for the sole purpose of disrupting and helping Trump, then no. They can protest all they want, just not inside the Democratic Convention.

I don't think we should let Rush Limbaugh fans into the convention to stir up crap, why should we let Jill Stein fans in to do the same thing?

single payer? Should they be respected and allowed to speak without booing?

What do you think would happen if mainstream Dems behave as childishly as the far left, and booed everyone who didn't agree with them on anything?

of Rights that on the actual political spectrum of philosophies are the actual center and center/left.

In the spectrum you push if the right only went as far as the left there wouldn't be anyone more conservative than about Ben Nelson or so. It is a figment used to make center right the other side of the divide.

There is no Cruz or Trump analog on the left of national politics.

Jill Stein is trying to get Trump elected. That's the horseshoe theory in action right there.

They can be asked to leave because they're disrupting the enjoyment of those who WANT to be there.

If these asshats were acting this way in a movie theater during a show, would they be allowed to stay? If they were acting this way in a Broadway theater during a performance, would they be allowed to stay?

but this is a bit different, I think. We got permits and didn't shout people down at their own venues. There's a constructive way to protest, and then there's shooting yourself in the foot.

But expanding that to say "the left" are just a bunch of whiny privileged white people who should be totally ignored because some of them are jerks who act up is a different matter.

I protested the Iraq War by standing on a street corner on 10 degree weather. I was kind of annoyed at those who did more drastic things, but I realized that's America.

Tonight is a HISTORIC EVENT. The first woman presidential nominee accepting her party's nomination. There will be women (and men of course) in that audience who've been waiting for this moment THEIR WHOLE LIVES. Women who are 50, 60, 80, 100 years old. Women who were born before the right to vote. And it will be marred by these incredibly self-absorbed people.

NO. I do not accept "a little protest is good for America" in THIS context. Just NO. I've been waiting for this my whole life!

Will the protesters change any minds in their favor? Doubtful. Did they protest the RNC? Doubtful. That makes their actions hypocritical, IMO.

You have no right to protest private events (the DNC is not a public event). if u want to protest take to the street.

Right now respect for the establishment is nang, and the war machine is lush. Show some respect.

to get out and vote and organize and work in the off-year elections, as they do to act like assholes at a dignified event, they may have actually achieved something politically.

acting like a stupid selfish asshole is entirely another

Preferably one that's far away from the respectable folks? What the hell do they expect, inalienable rights?

Maybe not, but they don't seem to be part of the reality-based community.

Most of the folks there probably believe we're on the path to universal healthcare, and don't see the need to burn down the house and erase the trail because we won't get it tomorrow.

These continued attempts to elevate their status or legitimize their behavior are failing.

Hippies are awesome, this bunch...not so much.

You dont cut off your nose to spite your face

when a look in the mirror will do

it's been hard to keep my disgust in check

I can see how it might make one popular with the "cool kids"

I think that a lot of these protestors are assholes, personally, but I get very uncomfortable when people say that political dissent should be silenced.

The nature of dissent is to cause discomfort.

I may not like the version it takes but I'll defend their right to do it.

Pen them up a mile away from the convention hall?

Nope.

Hillary's going to have to figure out how to reach these folks. Now is not too early.