For God's sakes, get back to the issues. I'm not interested in how long Trump wears his tie, or HRC's clothes. I'm not interested in their health reports, or if HRC sneezed and coughed. I want to know about how to lower the costs of my heart meds. I want to know if my social security check will get a decent cost of living raise. I want to know if my kids and grand kids can go to college and if there will be decent jobs for them. I want to know why the gov allows oil drilling in the gulf of Mexico and fracking in Texas (and other places).

spent all day obsessing about Trump's birther announcement.

This is what they do. They focus on Trump because they think he is ENTERTAINING, and that he will increase their ratings. Hillary and her normal, policy based speeches aren't given any attention.

n/t

And I think Hillary doesn't need much debate advice. She generally slays it. She is nothing but an issues/policy wonk, and is often belittled for it.

But the fact remains: she will be asked personality issues (remember the "why do people think you're so unlikeable?&quot . They'll ask her why people don't trust her. She knows how to pivot to the issues that matter, thank you very much.

pulling away from Trump in spite of his outrageous comments and positions.

I read two or three LOOONG posts here yesterday about how Bernie is not doing enough or asking "Where is Bernie?" So Bernie gives some honest advice and HRC supporters go "We don't need your advice".

Well which is it? Do you need Bernie supporters to win or not? And if you do need them, then you should at least pay attention to what Sanders has to say. If you don't need them, then you can ignore any advice he might have.

There is one thing about Bernie that you can count on. He WILL say what he thinks for the most part. And what he thinks proved to be pretty popular during the primaries. Democrats and HRC can ignore it if they want, but they shouldn't complain if they catch grief when they DO ignore Bernie's advice.

I sincerely wanted to know what his schedule was. My intent was not to trigger a debate on the question.

I am grateful that he's scheduled appearances this week and after Congress adjourns in early October. And I value his advice which was spot on.

At this point, Hillary needs all the help she can get. I just hope that Bernie can succeed in convincing millennials to not cancel out their votes by voting for Johnson or Stern.

1. As mentioned in my post, Hillary Clinton hews to the issues vigorously, all the time. If you (or Sanders) listened to any of her speeches or appearances, or to the CIC forum, for instance, you (and he) would have noticed that the issues mentioned are emphasized repeatedly.

2. This is not about Sanders supporters. Only a small minority of them are refusing to vote for Clinton. And parroting Bernie's talking points, at this stage in the game, is not going to convince them. She needs to convince the working class voters who are uncomfortable with Trump but are leaning towards him anyway.

3. Criticizing the candidate's campaign is neither helpful nor supportive, which was supposed to be his aim in the post-primary season. And advice from the candidate whose campaign failed to convince the majority of Democratic voters is even less helpful (especially when he himself used personality innuendo frequently).

4. She already deals with issues, incessantly (see no. 1).

"Hillary Clinton hews to the issues vigorously, all the time."

Maybe. But that's not what gets reported on the news that most people see. She obviously isn't doing it with much "flare" so it gets the attention it deserves.


"This is not about Sanders supporters. "

Who said it was?

"She needs to convince the working class voters who are uncomfortable with Trump but are leaning towards him anyway. "

Didn't Sanders just say that? She can convince them by shouting the issues from the roof tops.


"Criticizing the candidate's campaign is neither helpful nor supportive,"

Flat out WRONG. Criticism like this is aimed at IMPROVING what is seen on the ground, and wanting to make the campaign better is 100% supportive. Ga-ga worshipping, gooey hyperbole and insulting and dismissing supporters who have criticism is the MOST unhelpful thing anyone can do!

1. What gets reported on is outside any campaign's jurisdiction. (Also, it's "flair," not "flare&quot .

2. The poster to whom I was responding said this was all about getting Sanders supporters to support her. That's why I responded to it.

3. Criticism aimed at improving is given in private. Criticism aired on national television is criticism, and understood by everyone as such. That is why it is truly unhelpful. It's a dig at the campaign.

4. The only ga-ga worshipping I am detecting is from posts like the OP's and many of the responses, which seem to still cling to Sanders' every word as holy grail. All I am saying is: if he couldn't reach vast portions of the Democratic base with his campaign tactics and pronouncements, why should his "advice" be better than anyone else's?

"Criticism aired on national television is criticism,"

Criticism can be positive, and constructive, not just negative. The word "criticism" does not mean "say bad things".

"Criticism aimed at improving is given in private. "

Says who... besides you? This is simply not true.

"The only ga-ga worshipping I am detecting is from posts like the OP's ..."

Uh... look around DU more, perhaps. (This statement is simply laughable)

Would that he do his homework before giving unsolicited advice. Some are too lazy, some people can't help themselves trying to prove everyone else wrong.

He certainly hasn't been listening to her speeches- just skimming the headlines and imagining that the only time press reporting is accurate is with Hillary.

so it's pretty galling he would not keep a sock in it, or learn how to be an effective ally. Not a good team player

has no control over what the media reports. She has to play the hand she is dealt.

Then why does she have a campaign?....with a staff?.... and a PR dept?......

I mean, isn't that the idea.... to get the info and image you want out there? You seem to think she's just supposed to be reactionary.

They aren't doing their job. Maybe it's not up to Hillary Clinton to call them out, but someone has to. It is their incessant drive for ratings and titillating stories that is allowing this campaign news cycle to play out like a circus.

Ugh, this reminds me of the criticism of her foundation that ended with the admission "I don't know much about it".

She does her homework and talks policy all the time. He's not a great surrogate if he does not know that. And that is why his statement comes off as paternalistic claptrap.

He is wrong, yet seeks to correct her.

Not as much as "Sanders hasn't been following along"

Good grief.

You Hillary sycophants don't seem to understand that most people aren't watching her every move 24 hours a day. But to think Sanders hasn't been following along....

The hubris of Hillary groupies is mind boggling.

or advice on how to attack the campaign or Trump. That's fine. That's the attitude of most Dems anyway. They're happy with the status quo.

And BTW, it's not the Democratic supporters of Sanders that she needs to convince, it's the independent supporters.

He is dead wrong, yet seeks to correct her. Not helpful.

No matter what Sanders does it is never right for some. He is damned if does and damed if he does not.

I saw the same threads here asking what he has been doing...a simple google search gave a very good account of what he has been doing but instead some would rather throw shade.

Bernies advice is right on target. Trump has been dictating the narrative for some time now with his personal and over the top attacks. HRC would be smart to take Bernies advice and start hitting hard on the issues and her plans to address them instead of commenting on trumps supporters.

At this point, public advice from anyone including Sen. Sanders is not helpful. If he has advice to offer, he should do it privately. As for the "Sander's is never right" meme... it simply is not true. The primary is over, and we must beat Trump like a drum. I appreciate Sen. Sanders campaigning for Sec Clinton and admire him although I did not support him in the primary. I think some of us look for insults where none is intended...both Hillary primary supporters and Bernie primary supporters. Time to put aside our few differences and save the country from the orange menace.

The people asking "Where's Bernie?" weren't asking about his advice. They were asking about his activities, and whether or not his post-convention pledge to do "everything in his power to stop Donald Trump" was honest or not. So far, there's not a lot of evidence that it was. He's gone on TV and routinely continued to criticize HRC, and just today it was reported on HuffPo that he was sympathizing with Trump's voters.

I guess it's good that he occasionally criticizes Trump, but his inconsistency on literally everything else is troubling.

The same thing that right-wing Dems always say to the FDR wing of the Democratic Party. Vote for us, but you don't get input into what we do. Like it or not folks, there are a LOT of people that are getting tired of that attitude. And that attitude is WHY HRC is not pulling away from an opportunist buffoon like Trump.

And as I said in a follow-up post, it's not the left of the Dems that Clinton has to attract, it's the left leaning independents. According to Gallup that's about 18% of the electorate. That's the group that is attracted to Stein and. the naïve ones, to Johnson because of his stands on personal freedom issues.

But I love the imaginary FDR created at DU.

There are no "right-wing Dems" -- In case you weren't around then, Dick Nixon snaffled them up, and that was a long time ago.

Several former senators who retired? The ones that fought against ACÁ? A couple of former Bill advisors? Victoria Nuland?

There are plenty of examples.

And it seems that he has finally started doing so. Good for him.

But we don't need condescending advice to Hillary to speak more on issues. She does that almost every day. Did you know she gave an issues based speech yesterday? Probably not, since the media barely covered it.

P.S. If he really wants to give her advice, he should pick up the phone and call her. Not go on TV to announce to the world what he thinks she's doing wrong.

Do not let him stray from giving a gawddamned answer.

Trump is worse than a David Duke - Trump had actual power to deny housing and employment to people of color.

Yes, a good chunk of Trump's deplorables would think this was great -- but all people need to know this information.

Why isn't he the nominee?

Last edited Sun Sep 18, 2016, 05:13 PM - Edit history (1)

so yesterday.

(Per DU policy, btw)

Name recognition and things like "I never saw him at any civil rights rallies" "That's not him in that Photo" "He just doesn't "get" POC" "They yelled "No Spanish!!"... perhaps?

Some of us read the details, and were deeply dosappointed.

Even tho'....

"58% favor replacing the ACA with federally funded healthcare system"
http://www.gallup.com/poll/191504/majority-support-idea-fed-funded-healthcare-system.aspx

and

"Over 60% of Americans back tuition-free college"
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/08/01/over-60-of-americans-back-tuition-free-college-survey-says.html

not to mention

"Americans Still Say Upper-Income Pay Too Little in Taxes"
http://www.gallup.com/poll/190775/americans-say-upper-income-pay-little-taxes.aspx

Some of y'all might be in the minority.

Well, best just to keep plodding along with the corporatists.

Not one conjured by an inattentive brain.

Yeah....

They didn't know how to get to the Moon until they started doing it.

Just the current "America can't do anything (even if every other civilized nation already has)" narrative.

Plodding along as usual....because that's world out so well.

Like these things haven't been worked on for years and years now.

Hey.... REALLY unlike NASA, we have working examples to peruse.

So there's no wonder why there was broad scepticism.

Your comment finishes this thread appropriately.

with the content of her speeches -- it's the refusal of the media to cover speeches unless they're expected to be outrageous or wacky or otherwise entertaining.

Well, if making helpful suggestions we can all agree upon while having and X and Y chromosome is "mansplaining".

Maybe it is to the over-sensitive.

Was it covered? Barely.

I bet you didn't even know she gave one, and you certainly didn't watch it.

But he didn't suggest "give a policy based speech".

Again, she doesn't need him out there announcing his opinions on what she's doing wrong, as if they were still in the primary. If he has suggestions for her on how he thinks she should improve, he should let her know directly.

He should be supporting her now, not condescendingly "advising" her.

overplayed in this election, in instances where it's more than a stretch to see it. Unless you have the view that anyone with a Y chromosome is automatically sexist if they have anything but praise for her, then it's not a stretch.

IMO it's sexist to be overprotective of her by alleging sexism at every turn.

And they've decided they don't like either one of them but especially Hillary.

Then there's this attitude they have that it's the Republicans turn.

Saw Bernie on Morning Joe this morning. Of course Asshole Scarbutt wasn't in the studio and left the interview up to Scarbutt follower Mika the mouth. Not one issue was talked about in the program untill Bernie mentioned his playbook for Hillary at the debates. It's these GREEDY ASSHOLE EXECS THAT WANT TRUMP
TO KEEP ON HIS RANTS AND NEVER TALK about the issues!! So fed up with these MAINSTREAM PRICKS for not telling the American people the truth.

Most of what he says is un-doable and will never or could never be achieved - like the wall - for instance; or his big economic speech yesterday which totally consisted of made up numbers.

However, the way he says things or presents things to the People is such that it is presented in a way that tells people this is what you will get - this is what we'll achieve - if you vote for me. That's what is resonating with the People.

Yes - Hillary is all about issues. She is spot on the issues. She knows them cold and they are well researched out and achievable - should she get the cooperation of Congress.

However, she doesn't present them in a way in which people can visualize what will be achieved or what it means to them - the People - what they will get and how it will effect them personally - if they vote for her.

Trying to take on Trump with his own game of attacking his opponents - didn't work for his primary opponents - and it will not work for Hillary. That is how he beat his primary opponents - and that is exactly what he is trying to do with Hillary. He is pulling the campaign in the gutter and hoping that she will keep the campaign in the gutter with him - and then he uses that against her. He was a master of that - just ask Jeb or Marco.

Yes - I agree with Bernie that Hillary needs to stick to the issues - but she has to present the issues in such a way that the People can understand them and realize how it will impact on their lives personally. Doing this will pull the media over to talk issues and show contrasts between the candidates.

Currently the contrast between the candidates is about their health or the deplorability of their supporters.

She needs to pull the contrast between them based on the issues and how it will personally impact the American People. With that she'll win every time. This is what she needs to do at the debate - show contrasts between her and Trump and how her way is going to be more beneficial to them.

and placing it on what you are selling. Trump "you're fired" knows this. Bill "its the economy stupid" "i feel your pain" Clinton knows this. Bernie knows this. FDR "the only thing we need to fear is fear itself" and demagogue Huey "share the wealth" Long knew this. Hillary's team needs to focus on the issues and she has been doing that-- but in a dramatic way that captures people's attention.

media coverage.

And fast !!!

This is Trump's arena -- literally like PT Barnum. They have given him millions and millions and millions of dollars of free airtime. Even "Doctor" Oz played along, for gods' sake. Do you have any idea how valuable an hour of television is?

We cannot compete on that ground on Trump's terms.

In addition to the above, he destroyed all comers during the GOP primaries by doing two things personally to each of them: he persuaded them to get into the gutter with him, and he got into their heads. They were picked off one by one.

Hillary Clinton has some tremendous advantages. #1 She will not get into the gutter with him. #2 He cannot get into her head.

Hold that thought, as Rachel Maddow would say. #1 is very much to her credit, but it means she is not what Big Media wants. She's not wacky or entertaining or outrageous. So stop complaining about that part. It's up to each of us to spread the word. We have email. We have Facebook. We have Twitter. Social media is powerful.

#2 is one of Hillary's greatest strengths and always has been. She learned from what were surely her darkest hours over 20 years ago, when I know she had to have been riven with self-doubt. The bastards didn't grind her down then, and they won't now. But it would help very much if Hillary's supporters would be supportive.

The language floating around in this thread is laughable. "Sycophants"? "Hubris"? "Hillary groupies"? So supporting our candidate is that? No, it is not. In this moment the nation is in peril, as it was during the darkest days of the BushCheney administration. In my entire life I have never seen a candidate this dangerous get this close to the White House -- and the broadcast media is helping him.

After BushCheney, my country elected the best president of my lifetime twice, but all I read on this board for 8 years was what a betraying schmuck he was. Now we are faced with the biggest backlash in a century, and what do I read at DU? Reminders that once Hillary is elected, gods willing, I can expect the same drumbeat of cynicism and bitterness regarding her.

Folks, if we want Hillary to be elected at all, it starts with defying corporate media, and supporting her. If social media can work in popular uprisings overseas, it can work here at home.

I hate the "Hillary groupies" and so on language, sick of it. I see "corporatist" there too. Sick of it.

You said, " She's not wacky or entertaining or outrageous. So stop complaining about that part."

Did I say she is wacky, etc, or complain about that? No.

Is the rest of your reply talking about.. me?

...abundantly in display in this thread. Sorry if it came across otherwise. But my goodness is there a theme from a couple of determined folks of how HRC & Team are not doing anything right in terms of getting out ahead of Trump's domination of the media.

Bernie fell hook, line, and sinker for their phony debate proposal, and reality is that tRump just wanted to use it as an opportunity to call him names and denigrate him. That whole debacle for Bernie turned into Donald saying that Bernie was a loser and Donald doesn't debate losers. A loser, since he was the second choice in the primary, so that's the name Donald stuck him with.

And Hillary has no problem with policy. She even beat out Bernie's name calling, so it doesn't look like she needs to focus on his stump speech, most of which her husband ran on two decades ago.

Her strength is in her knowledge of the issues and if the debate is moderated appropriately, then she will skewer him. But if the moderator let's it go into the gutter, then we will be left with a bunch of bullshit soundbytes.

I hope Hillary comes out gunning for both Trump and the moderator to keep the debate in line of its purpose.

How is this "doing everything I can to help Hillary win"?


Why doesn't he place blame where it belongs: the MSM, for not reporting Hillary's policy statements? She discusses policy in every speech! The way Bernie phrases this, he is implicitly blaming Hillary for the lack of media coverage and (falsely) accusing her of not talking policy.

Now Trump can say "even Bernie agrees with me, Hillary does not talk policy, she just does personal attacks." Just like Trump keeps repeating how Bernie said Hillary is not "qualified" because of her "judgment."

This is not helping, Bernie!



Please, Bernie, learn what Hillary's very progressive policies are--they are on her website--and say how great they are and how they blow Trump's out of the water. Say how this false equivalence narrative is the worst lie of this campaign season--instead of impliedly repeating it!!

Advice that is hopefully heeded.

Howard Dean is VERY good at deflecting questions from the media, even ones he's friendly with. I've seen him say things like, "That's the kind of thing I'll say privately, but not on national television." Then Howard just drags his interviewer back to the issue he came to talk about.

Bernie's support for Hillary would be far better served if he would just dig her phone number out of his pants pocket where he wrote it on a scrap of paper, borrow a staffer's cell phone, and call her privately with his advice. I'm sure her voice mail will pick up.

He can learn to stick to a useful script based on the TRUTH that Hillary supporters and Bernie supporters have 100% more in common with each other than they ever will with Trump or Pence. Ask Howard Dean how he does it.