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niyad

(113,336 posts)
Sat Sep 17, 2016, 01:34 PM Sep 2016

I wonder what jefferson would say about the media these days, maybe change his mind?

Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter. Thomas Jefferson
Read more at: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasjeff101434.html

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I wonder what jefferson would say about the media these days, maybe change his mind? (Original Post) niyad Sep 2016 OP
In Jefferson's Day jamese777 Sep 2016 #1
We posted simultaneously. mahatmakanejeeves Sep 2016 #5
thank you for that excellent link. niyad Sep 2016 #6
My pleasure! n/t jamese777 Sep 2016 #9
He'd say, "they treat politicians with much more respect than when I was alive." mahatmakanejeeves Sep 2016 #2
The prairie dog looks like Donald Trump! (n/t) PJMcK Sep 2016 #4
thanks niyad Sep 2016 #7
The Founding Fathers couldn't have conceived of today's global communications PJMcK Sep 2016 #3
Good journalism is out there, a lot of it, but people have to look for it. Hortensis Sep 2016 #8
You're right, of course PJMcK Sep 2016 #11
Sounds like a good school. I heard the other day Hortensis Sep 2016 #13
Jefferson was an offender jamese777 Sep 2016 #12
Good history PJMcK Sep 2016 #14
"Who hath let ye dogs out?" Rocknrule Sep 2016 #10
the biggest wagon is the empty wagon is the noisiest Warren DeMontague Sep 2016 #15

jamese777

(546 posts)
1. In Jefferson's Day
Sat Sep 17, 2016, 01:54 PM
Sep 2016

the media were wholly owned and operated subsidiaries of political factions and then of political parties. Politicians wrote vicious attack articles against their opponents and used pseudonyms to hide their identities.
For example, Jefferson was the author of articles suggesting that President Washington was senile. "Martha Washington often recalled the two saddest days of her life. The first was December 14, 1799 when her husband died. The second was in January 1801 when Thomas Jefferson visited Mount Vernon. As a close friend explained, "She assured a party of gentlemen, of which I was one. . .that next to the loss of her husband" Jefferson's visit was the "most painful occurrence of her life."
She had come to dislike Jefferson for his frequent attacks on President George Washington as a monarchist bent on destroying the rule of the people and a senile follower of the policies of Alexander Hamilton. Jefferson even refused to attend memorial services for the President, saying in private that the "republican spirit" in the nation might revive now that Washington was dead and the Federalists could no longer hide behind his heroic image."
http://www.mountvernon.org/digital-encyclopedia/article/thomas-jefferson/

Newspaper attacks were the motivation for one Founding Father who was the third Vice President of the United States shooting and killing the Founding Father who was the first Secretary of the Treasury.

mahatmakanejeeves

(57,488 posts)
5. We posted simultaneously.
Sat Sep 17, 2016, 02:01 PM
Sep 2016

The comments going back and forth in Trump v. Clinton look like a tea party (you know what I mean) compared to the discourse back then.

Jefferson and Madison just detested Patrick Henry.

Ken Cuccinelli Once Filed An Amendment To Change Virginia's State Song To The Beatles' “Taxman”

....
Patrick Henry wasn't quite as opposed to taxes as Cuccinelli made him out to be. Though it is not widely known now, Thomas Jefferson and James Madison absolutely detested Patrick Henry. Why? Because Patrick Henry wanted to tax citizens to pay the salaries of clergymen.

I've heard that Thomas Jefferson detested Patrick Henry.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=334609

For Religious Freedom Day: What Jefferson Really Thought of Theocrat Patrick Henry
http://freethoughtblogs.com/rodda/2012/01/16/for-religious-freedom-day-what-jefferson-really-thought-of-theocrat-patrick-henry/

For Religious Freedom Day: What Jefferson Really Thought of Theocrat Patrick Henry
Categories: Uncategorized
by Chris Rodda

So, today {January 16} is Religious Freedom Day, the anniversary of the passage of Thomas Jefferson’s Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom. No, I’m not going to post Jefferson’s statute; I’m going to post something cooler than that — one of my favorite lines ever written by Jefferson.

The background: Jefferson drafted his religious freedom statute in 1777 and introduced it in 1779, but it didn’t go anywhere. It wasn’t until 1786 that Jefferson’s statute was passed. Jefferson was in France at the time, so it was Madison who reintroduced the religious freedom statute. This was right after James Madison defeated Patrick Henry’s bill to tax everybody in Virginia to support teachers of the Christian religion.

Jefferson couldn’t stand Patrick Henry and his theocratic agenda, and made this quite clear in one {of} his letters to Madison while Madison was battling Henry’s bill for a Christian religious tax. When Madison wrote to Jefferson asking what they should do about Henry, Jefferson replied:

“While Mr. Henry Lives another bad constitution would be formed, and saddled for ever on us. What we have to do I think is devoutly to pray for his death …”


Of course, the Christian nationalist history revisionists either ignore this line from Jefferson, or claim it is made up by evil secularists to impugn the character of our very Christian founding fathers.
....

{This is} from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to James Madison on December 8, 1784, and can be found on pages 353-354 of The Republic Of Letters, The Correspondence between Thomas Jefferson and James Madison 1776-1826, Volume I.

Patrick Henry was the first governor of Virginia, and Thomas Jefferson was the second. We really got off to a great start, didn't we?

If only Cuccinelli knew Virginia history.

mahatmakanejeeves

(57,488 posts)
2. He'd say, "they treat politicians with much more respect than when I was alive."
Sat Sep 17, 2016, 01:54 PM
Sep 2016

Heeeeeeeere we go:

Do I have to post this again?

and

Born, on April 13, 1743, in Shadwell, Virginia,...

and many other identical posts:

Everytime I read online about the decline in political discourse, I bring out this cartoon. This is how Jefferson was depicted.

I continue to carry a $2 bill at all times in my wallet.

"Congress shall make no law...."

It's No Laughing Matter - Analyzing Political Cartoons

The prairie dog sickened at the sting of the hornet or a diplomatic puppet exhibiting his deceptions



James Akin's earliest-known signed cartoon, "The Prairie Dog" is an anti-Jefferson satire, relating to Jefferson's covert negotiations for the purchase of West Florida from Spain in 1804. Jefferson, as a scrawny dog, is stung by a hornet with Napoleon's head into coughing up "Two Millions" in gold coins, (the secret appropriation Jefferson sought from Congress for the purchase). On the right dances a man (possibly a French diplomat) with orders from French minister Talleyrand in his pocket and maps of East Florida and West Florida in his hand. He says, "A gull for the People."

PJMcK

(22,037 posts)
3. The Founding Fathers couldn't have conceived of today's global communications
Sat Sep 17, 2016, 01:58 PM
Sep 2016

Although the people who founded our nation were very smart and built flexibility into our Constitution, they couldn't have conceived of the 24/7 television news cycle. It's power is awesome.

In the late 18th century, newspapers were the only method of disseminating information. Most of them were published and owned independently unlike today where 6 corporations own almost all of the media outlets. The concept of Freedom of the Press was partly based on the idea that there would be many different voices heard throughout the United States allowing the electorate to freely understand what the government was doing. Today, we mostly have corporate-controlled media.

The consolidation of journalism by major corporations is a detriment to an informed electorate. News should not be subjected to the corporate/Wall Street pressures of quarterly profits. In the early days of broadcast journalism, the management of the Big Three-- CBS, NBC and ABC-- understood that news was part of their social contract and that the benefit of their entertainment-related income was predicated on their responsibility to provide objective news to the American people.

I don't think that former President Jefferson would approve of the way that journalism has evolved in the United States.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
8. Good journalism is out there, a lot of it, but people have to look for it.
Sat Sep 17, 2016, 02:17 PM
Sep 2016

You can't just turn on the TV and listen--it's not there. Those easy-availability channels are like media "news" versions of the fast-food and chain restaurants clustered at freeway off-ramps and around neighborhood malls. Good information, like good restaurants, is still there for people who take some additional effort to find it.

PJMcK

(22,037 posts)
11. You're right, of course
Sat Sep 17, 2016, 02:34 PM
Sep 2016

After all, we're on DU and then there's Talking Points Memo and Raw Story and Vox and The Rude Pundit and so much more, including from the other side of the trench.

Sadly, most people don't dig into current events. All the information they get is from drive-time radio, The Today Show or Headline News or whichever other cable news channel they plug into.

When I was in 7th grade, we had a half-year course in Social Studies called Current Events. It's primary purpose was to instill a desire to know what was going on in the world. Marshall McLuan's Understanding Media: The Extensions of Man, (which was an extended discussion of his aphorism, "the medium is the message&quot , was one of the texts we read. I've been a news junkie ever since.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
13. Sounds like a good school. I heard the other day
Sat Sep 17, 2016, 02:59 PM
Sep 2016

the the average of 3 years of "civics, social studies, etc." that used to be taught over the 12 years is now down to an average of one.

jamese777

(546 posts)
12. Jefferson was an offender
Sat Sep 17, 2016, 02:41 PM
Sep 2016

he wrote and approved hate speech against his rivals. His campaign wrote this of John Adams:
&quot Adams has) a hideous hermaphroditical character, which has neither the force and firmness of a man, nor the gentleness and sensibility of a woman."
http://mentalfloss.com/article/19668/election-1800-birth-negative-campaigning-us

It is a citizen's choice to only rely on television news as sources of corporate media information. (On television, I prefer PBS' Newshour and Washington Week plus CSPAN).
I am grateful to have tens of thousands of additional, non-corporate options, worldwide at my disposal with the click of a mouse. I count this site among them.

PJMcK

(22,037 posts)
14. Good history
Sat Sep 17, 2016, 03:42 PM
Sep 2016

Thanks for that, jamese777. I also agree with your point that the internet is our information friend if one is discerning.

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