When ever we 'take the high road' and don't answer back to their overly digested and nonsensical talking points, we give them false validation because they assume they are correct, and we are 'learning'.

Don't assume I share your Prejudices

The problem is they realize they have an addiction to follow what's said and shown on TV, but are perfectly comfortable in repeated every meme. It'll probably be generation, taking their erred ways with them until the bitter end and the next generation finally able to reach consensus and make real progress in growing the depth of our democracy.

The kids will fix it...they have no where near the same hang ups my generation does..

I'm 56 and I remember being in my twenties and we were saying "it's our parents' generation. We'll fix things". And a lot of things did change. A lot of things did get better, but not nearly enough. The problem was that there was still a large part of our generation that was ignorant and narrow-minded or became so as they got older. I hope today's younger generations will fix things, but experience tells me not to rely on that.

Don't depend on some mythical salvation by the younger generation. Fight for change now. Fight against ignorance now.

My point was, in my opinion, my kids generation is much more progressive than mine, even more so than my parents generation. While I may share, just a little, your cautions about what happens as the kids get older, my optimism comes from the fact that these kids have a much greater access to information and ability to organize, socialize with people they don't know.

My kids are seeing much more of the world at a much younger age than I did, thanks to the X-Box, the Internet, etc.

This generation is also hit square in the face with huge income disparities between the have's and have nots.

They'll do better than we did, they HAVE to!

For all we know, GitRDun may have been one of the only voices of reason the other guy's been hearing, especially if he mainly watches Pox Noise.

If that's mainly where they're getting it, then they NEED to hear from the opposition. To start cutting through the severe, multi-layered, and well-funded/buttressed insulation. They NEED to! They need to know that, out here in the real world, people don't think like that. 'Cause we know better. It may be the ONLY way to start shedding light into their darkness.

I think it is high time we tell these people exactly what we think. This gentleman had no qualms about expressing his views and if we follow up, as you have done, we may go a long way to dispelling some of the myths about liberal thinking. Especially that we have no spine.
Standing up for your beliefs is using your spine.

...their "realities" to go unchallenged, they further embed themselves into national consciousness. The republican power-meisters know this.

If you repeat a lie often enough, it eventually becomes the truth. Goebbels knew this, as does Roger Ailes <spit>.

...to get the foul taste out of my mouth.

Thank you. Enjoy your Sunday!

Right now most AM stations provide 24/7 right wing brainwashing. We need to break it up and force 10-15 minutes an hour to be given to a progressive voice.

How long do you think it would take Randy Rhodes to shred 45 minutes of Limbaugh lying. Five minutes? Maybe ten.

As it is now, a big chunk of blue collar America is driving to the job site, to work or where ever listening to a completely distorted view of reality. And they do this every working day and likely on some weekends as well.

Economically, these people should be Democrats. The Koch brothers could care less about them except on election day.

...free of charge to the stations, so they pay no royalties. That's how Limpballs in particular grew his market to it's monolithic size. Limpballs makes his money off of his advertisers, many of which are coming to their senses.

And you also correct about the Koch brothers. They and their ilk could give a damn about the elections...as long as they go the way they want.

We witnessed an almost miracle on Tuesday, November 6. The massive amount of money "invested" by the 1% to influence our elections basically failed. However, I guarantee the "consultants" are going over the analysis with a fined-tooth comb. So the next time the bilious billionaires spend boo-koo bucks, they are going to expect results.

We can't afford to let those statements stand uncontested and unquestioned. Because then THAT is the impression that's left behind. These folks urgently need to be presented with a different view. The view from reality. They need to hear something OTHER THAN Pox Noise and limbaugh&co. And since they won't tune in voluntarily to sources where they can hear another view, it has to be deliberately set in front of them where they almost have to trip over it. Where it can't be ignored or avoided.

It has to be us, leading this charge. The media for the most part won't do it, although some are indeed starting to wake up. I point out again, with some incredulity I might add, that for the first time, that some of the coverage actually started calling it what it was: LIES. Using the "L" word. Sometimes a lot. You NEVER used to hear it because it was seldom, if ever, used - even when well-deserved. But during this campaign, you DID! Sometimes a LOT!

No more pussyfooting around flat-out lying by saying wussy little chicken-droppings such as "misstated," or "may have misrepresented" or even "a prevaricating president?" Oh Good Grief... They used those occasionally when referring to one of many stupid-ass, lying shit george dubya bush perpetrated all over the country (and the world). This time around, many of them, as heard on MSNBC, CNN, Current of course, but also mainstreamers like ABC and NBC and CBS. But by the time wrongney got rolling, it was just really, almost absurdly, unavoidable. It was so bad that newspapers jumped in with both feet to pile on the truth-telling, and even the auto industry stepped up to correct the record on wrongney's totally lie-filled campaign ads. With that level and volume and spread of critics coming forward, it's really rather a remarkable new phenomenon. republi-CONS actually NOT getting away with every lie they tell, for a change!

There was still plenty of insulation that held. But wide play was given to the given name of "clown car" of republi-CON primary hopefuls. Never before was such open derision on display. These dingdongs actually were called out in public on so many jerky things they said, for a change. And rather baldly, too - very little holding back.

And it's getting better all the time. We now have such individuals as Soledad O'Brien joining Rachel Maddow and an expanding lineup of media people willing to confront and correct shit that's attempted to be sold, and taking it directly to the slick salespeople themselves. Just consider - WHEN would any of us have expected Candy Crowley to jump in and hold wrongney's feet to the fire about the distortion he was trying to peddle as truth. And she came down on the side of verifying the President. WHEN would we have expected to see that?

But the shit just stank too bad, I think. It was too unbearable even for the likes of Candy Crowley to let it go by without saying something! It's gotta be pretty damn bad, and pretty damn stinky, that even Candy Crowley has to step up and say "hey, wait a minute!"

I remember when NOTHING was said. And that was far too recently - as recently as January 19th, 2009.

"Nothing, what's wrong with everyone else?"

Touche, gave him something to think about and yet, was not at all inflammatory.

if enough of them get thrown, some of them will sprout.

"Don't do that or you'll be mistaken for a Mexican." I noticed he was VERY white.

The future of the Republican Party became obvious...

As opposed to the bottom of the toilet the US was heading under 8 years of Bush? Oh wait....2000-2008 NEVAH happened.

too short to pretend that people like that have a valid position. You are right. If you don't state your position they do believe they have a legitimate point. Most play nice and that only feeds their rage.
I don't play nice.

Get 'er done!

That's telling him, subtle but not so subtle that he didn't get your meaning right between the eyes. Good work.

While I applaud your wife's tact, I disagree that you should have "been tactful from the start". No. We can speak softly yet

Confronting lies is the only way to move forward.

thanks for posting it. Gives me ideas of how to talk with these few conservatives that I know. So tactful and yet still illuminating.

You know, I am always ready to discuss things in depth, but I usually find most of them know little other than talking points.

I put it that way because it is simple, easy to understand. Underlying my comment is the simple fact that Republicans cannot get a diverse convention without addressing the concerns of ALL Americans. Until the day comes when they can SEE everyone, they can keep their Pleasantville reunions every four years, I prefer to live in the real world.

they can stay safe in their delusions.

I don't go out of my way to have a confrontation with wing nuts. But they don't get a free pass from me either. Today was good example. I was at church and one person (I know who it was too) has a van and he is mega pro-life the van has lots of "abortion is murder" and that kind of stuff. Any way today he decided to be at all the masses so far and he has a sheet hung on the back that he wrote a nice little message to us heathens. His message was one of those if you voted for Obama you betrayed God bs stuff. Ok see I am a Sacristan and lots of people know me there. Anyway after one of the masses many people were upset with the message (I could hear them talking). I quietly told many of them that they were not going to hell for voting Obama. The relief in their faces was obvious, and it wasn't that they were not going to hell that brought the relief. It was that others think the same way. Many people in Church's will remain silent on certain social issues so as not to cause trouble. But more and more these people are starting to express them selves.

Glad to have you with us! We all STILL need to remain vigilant, and protect what we won in such a long and difficult struggle!

In some ways, Election Night did NOT end the struggle. It just allowed a downshifting - because as we've been hearing from many oppositional corners, it seems fair to suspect that too many in the GOP are NOT taking a lesson from last Tuesday night. Too many of them are falling back on the "we just didn't message it correctly/enough/effectively/blah-blah-blah" - which is total BS. Or they blame it on Hurricane Sandy. Or they blame it on the media. Or chris christie. I can't remember too many within their own ranks actively promoting that the party change its policies for the sake of wooing more women and Latinos.

Bravo on you for your action.

I had a similar thing happen at a sporting event where probably 90% of the attendees were wingnuts. We were in the VIP tent, and a guy at the table I was sitting at mentioned Flip-Flopper's vacation in NH (this was back in July). I thought that meant he was a Normal Person (AKA Democrat), but after I followed up it became immediate obvious he was a teabagger. I spoke a few facts, like how Obama had better job numbers for 29 months in a row and the like, and he was just fuming and sputtering about "how could you vote for that idiot!". I eventually just said "All I'm giving you is facts. I'm not being emotional". He loudly, and quite emotionally, insisted he wasn't getting emotional. But of course he was, and of course he quoted exactly ZERO facts about why Obama was so bad.

I changed the subject, as he was not about to.

I hate seeing people back down from blowhards like this in the name of politeness. There's this rule that you're not suppose to talk politics but if we don't talk politics to each other, our friends and neighbors, that leaves Rush Limbaugh to do all the talking, doesn't it?

and armed with the facts, I can dispense with them VERY easily

public smack down. That's what I think, anyway. He should apologize to you, his wife and the happy couple for being an insensitive jerk.

Last edited Mon Nov 12, 2012, 12:11 PM - Edit history (1)

I had a big battle on Facebook with my cousin about this election etc.

She is clearly a Fox viewer and I admit I knew all about their (Fox viewers) delusion, but had never actually gotten into a discussion with one.
I started to get the feeling that the only place I might be able to crack into her bubble of delusion was to point out that not all Obama supporters are the crazy caricature they are led to believe. I kept telling her I would invite her to meet my hard working, well educated, middle-to-upper middle class (mostly white...yes I'm sure she had some underlying racism "only black people vote for Obama" going on) friends - most/if-not-all who vote for Obama (I guess I live in a bubble of my own) - I just kept thinking this might disabuse her of one of the big lies they are told. Will this be a small sliver of light into their closed off mind? Perhaps not, but seems like it is worth a try. Mainly because she would have to demonize me and many other relatives for her to keep holding on to that belief.

But, the final post in this back and forth was from her Aunt (I think an Aunt, not sure, but she was an elderly woman) who said something like "I can't believe Romney lost even though he had the popular vote. I will never understand the electoral college." So maybe my wishful thinking is displaced, there may be no hope for these people.