2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumStop Pretending You Don’t Know Why People Hate Hillary Clinton
Last edited Tue Sep 27, 2016, 03:02 PM - Edit history (1)
"Back in the mid-90s, Clintons persistent unwillingness to hide the fact that she was a thinking human female really freaked the center-left establishment out. Michael Moore observed that, [Maureen Dowd] is fixated on trashing Hillary Rodham in the way liberals love to do, to prove theyre not really liberal. The bashing slowly morphed into a creepy, extraordinary sort of policing.
Since then, Clinton racked up a Senate voting record more liberal than any nominee since Mondale. Her 2008 platform was slightly to Obamas left on domestic issues. Her 2016 platform was barely to the right of self-proclaimed socialist Bernie Sanders.
Yet, we have all heard and seen countless liberal posers passionately decrying her far right voting record, untrustworthy promises or ever-changing policy positions. Jon Stewart recently called Clinton, A bright woman without the courage of her convictions, because I dont know what they even are. Because if he doesnt know, she must not have any, right?
In fact, there is a very lengthy trail of public records all pointing in the same direction. If you cant figure out which, maybe the problem is you."
"Consider, for a moment, two people. One, as a young woman at the beginning of a promising legal career, went door to door searching for ways to guarantee an education to the countless disabled and disadvantaged children who had fallen through the cracks. The other, as a young millionaire, exacted revenge on his recently deceased brothers family by cutting off the medical insurance desperately needed by his nephews newborn son, who at eighteen months of age was suffering from violent seizures brought on by a rare neurological disorder.
What kind of a society treats these two people as equal in any way? What kind of society even considers the latter over the former for its highest office?"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/larry-womack/stop-pretending-you-dont-_b_12191766.html
I think that it's the same kind of society that assumes if an unarmed black man is shot by police that he was clearly no different than a hardened criminal, because they are primed to see no redeeming qualities, and believe he somehow deserved this creepy, extraordinary sort of policing. Because if he had any redeeming qualities, then the police would have known about them, right?
Rocknrule
(5,697 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)I think a lot of women silently watched Social Media, and kept quiet, just like we did when family members or co-workers picked her apart, imagining all sorts of faults, vengeful motivations and crass ambitions.
Then we turned out at the polls, and many on the ballots.
I hope that this is another moment that will take us forward, but I would never have imagined that 25 years later we would be seeing that same sort of excoriation and suspicion of anpther incredibly talented, accomplished, compassionate, pragmatic woman.
William769
(55,147 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Sparkly
(24,149 posts)People were aghast that she had her own career. She wasn't yet so careful with her words, and said something like, "Well, I suppose I could have stayed home and baked cookies and had teas, but I chose to pursue my career..."
The BACKLASH was insane. "What's wrong with cookies?!" She actually showed up with cookies for the press, then there was a competition between recipes for her cookies and Barbara Bush's cookies. Crazy.
Even back in Arkansas, she had to take Clinton's name, change her clothes, change her hair, and in DC even more so -- the critics were NEVER off her for a second.
And she STILL came out ahead!!!!
Edited for a link:
TexasBushwhacker
(20,204 posts)I admit, I think she could have been more diplomatic. But women, can't win. If we put a lot of hours with our career, we're neglecting our family. If we take a job that's less demanding, we aren't "leaning in". If we stay home to raise the kids and care for the home, we're putting to much burden on our partner and lack ambition. Oy!
4lbs
(6,858 posts)actions of her husband, and in general for anything "bad."
Bill Clinton signed NAFTA, a treaty that was championed by GEORGE H.W. BUSH, and voted for by a majority of the REPUBLICAN Congress. It's your fault Hillary!
Bill Clinton had an affair and lied about it. It's your fault Hillary!
OJ Simpson committed double-murder and got away with it, and Bill was the President. It's your fault Hillary!
Missn-Hitch
(1,383 posts)supported Bill (NAFTA). And IT IS THE ONLY time the scum republicans supported Obama - TPP. Which makes this novice at trade scratch his head and say, "okay, what is wrong with this trade deal".
It's always Hillary's fault and it will not end until she finishes her second term. Cheers.
TygrBright
(20,763 posts)NoGoodNamesLeft
(2,056 posts)It had nothing to do with any specific thing I think she did or said. In fact, it was all the vague smear attacks over the years that made me feel like I didn't like her, but I could never quite put my finger on why.
My honest belief is that all those smears and attacks directed at her stuck, and NOT because they were true or she deserved them...but because she is more of a do-er than a talker. She never really set her record straight with the public...until the convention. After watching that I realized that I honestly didn't have any reason to not like her...I just had heard so many smears for so many years that I just THOUGHT I didn't like her.
Was she smeared because of sexism? Most likely! Do people dislike her because of sexism? Maybe some...but I would bet that there are lots of people like myself who actually would like her if they knew more about her.
athena
(4,187 posts)Early on in this election, I decided to find out more about her, and everything I read convinced me that I had been wrong about her.
For some reason, the attacks stick. If you don't go and do some reading on your own, you just assume that what everyone is saying must be true; if there were nothing to it, someone would be disputing it. It's an application of Occam's razor: how likely is it that everyone who is smearing her is lying? But in fact, Occam's razor doesn't always apply. It's not a scientific law or theory; it's just a rule of thumb, and it sometimes gets things wrong.
I do think the reason she is attacked so fiercely and hated so passionately is sexism. We are all sexist, by virtue of having grown up in and living in a sexist society. When we believe the lies about Hillary Clinton, we believe them because we're sexist. I don't believe there is a single person in this country, male or female, who is not sexist. I think it's important to accept that we're all sexist. It's by accepting it that we will be able to move beyond it.
Foggyhill
(1,060 posts)The simplest solution is the one that's right.
Well, 99% of those doing the accusation were republicans.
A lot of people that have a vested interest in the lie to stick, occam razor would be that it is a lie.
Why did it stick then?
Because Occam's Razor works if the person applying it actually fully understands the context.
The problem is that the media, like now, will report a lie without any fact checking and
people don't seem to have caught on that the media are now just some PR machine (that has started quite a while back)
for political machines to pass on whatever they feel like it. The media aren't lying, they're just lazy.
So, with the media (which in the 1990s and early 2000s still had a decent rep) fronting for the message,
people think the message comes from THE MEDIA, instead of the GOP.
So, if the MEDIA says she's untrustworthy (which the people then trusted), occam's razor says that this must be true
(considering that the media are trusted less and less, this kind of operation will eventually not work at all anymore,
we're close to that point now).
Response to ehrnst (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
prayin4rain
(2,065 posts)DFW
(54,414 posts)"If you are going to play at politics, things are going to get political."
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)jamese777
(546 posts)Most Admired Woman
Since 1946 the Gallup Organization has been conducting an annual poll of the Most Admired Person or the Most Admired Man & Woman.
Eleanor Roosevelt finished first thirteen times and Dwight Eisenhower finished first twelve times. Hillary Clinton has finished first a record twenty times.
That kind of positive name recognition goes a long way in politics.
Most Admired Woman
1990: Margaret Thatcher
1991: Barbara Bush
1992: Barbara Bush
1993: Hillary Rodham Clinton
1994: Hillary Rodham Clinton
1995: Mother Teresa
1996: Mother Teresa
1997: Hillary Rodham Clinton
1998: Hillary Rodham Clinton
1999: Hillary Rodham Clinton
2000: Hillary Rodham Clinton
2001: Laura Bush
2002: Hillary Rodham Clinton
2003: Hillary Rodham Clinton
2004: Hillary Rodham Clinton
2005: Hillary Rodham Clinton
2006: Hillary Rodham Clinton
2007: Hillary Rodham Clinton
2008: Hillary Rodham Clinton
2009: Hillary Rodham Clinton
2010: Hillary Rodham Clinton
2011: Hillary Rodham Clinton
2012: Hillary Rodham Clinton
2013: Hillary Rodham Clinton
2014: Hillary Rodham Clinton
2015: Hillary Rodham Clinton
http://www.gallup.com/poll/1678/most-admired-man-woman.aspx
jcgoldie
(11,631 posts)Even the one's who aren't religious. Conservative family values = male dominated patriarchal family. Hillary Clinton is strong, intelligent, capable, and unapologetic... in redneck parlance she's an uppity bitch. ie She can't be trusted because she doesn't know her role.
meow2u3
(24,764 posts)Using George Lakoff's terminology, Hillary Clinton's nurturant parent morality (typical of liberals) is an affront to the conservatives' strict father morality, replete with the authoritarian mindset that foments it.
AFAIC, conservos can take their antiquated strict father moral code and shove it up their collective anal apertures.
Malbrownluna8708
(76 posts)They still made it like it was her(Hillary's) fault. Like if she was not such a B@tch his mom would have never said that.... Insanity.
BumRushDaShow
(129,163 posts)about Kirsten Gillibrand when she was first floated to replace Hillary in the NY Senate seat. She came out of a reddish purple NY U.S. House District and was a blue dog (which got her elected there in the first place). However when she got into the Senate and you look at her record, she has been one of the most reliable progressive voters that they have.
hertopos
(833 posts)I left DU once right around the time some Obama supporter became so unbearable.
I also recall the way some Bernie supporters hated her while same person never showed same type of
dislikes towards Obama.
Records show that Hillary has one of most liberal voting record.
I am one thousands Hillary. I have a Ph.d. in math and I work now as a financial planner and have CFP. I still treated like a girl once in a blue moon though things are getting finally better.
Frankly speaking, I just was very happy for Hillary when she smiled and shimmy.
Like herself, real me is pretty easy going and funny. Only problem was I was too out spoken for a woman and treated pretty harshly as a result.
I just hope people rethink about Hillary. She is a decent and likable human being with one of the best policy making skills and brain ever.
I also have a feeling she really enjoy doing something for other people.
Honestly speaking, she deserves to be liked.
hertopos
Madam45for2923
(7,178 posts)I also was on her camp since 2008. So happy she came back and we are taking her all the way to the Whitehouse!
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)kerry-is-my-prez
(8,133 posts)I would get accused of being "as tough as nails," etc., from men who didn't even know me. They didn't even know me or spoke to me. Just seeing a woman in a suit (with a skirt) scared the bejesus out of them. Don't recall too many women thinking that though, mainly men.... I'm sure they hated me without even knowing me.
rusty quoin
(6,133 posts)lillypaddle
(9,581 posts)lupinella
(365 posts)Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)We all know he's full of shit!
And yes, we all also know why Hillary is hated.
Madam45for2923
(7,178 posts)tune them out. I think: "Ah that's all I need to hear from you. Tah tah! Buh Bye!" I don't stick around for the mouth foaming. People look/sound/act ugly when they mouth foam. Not interested.