2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHow Hillary Clinton’s Pitch-perfect Put-downs May Have Changed the Race - By Frank Rich
Most weeks, New York Magazine writer-at-large Frank Rich speaks with contributor Alex Carp about the biggest stories in politics and culture. Today: the first 2016 presidential debate.Going into last nights debate, polls showed Hillary Clintons lead over Donald Trump continuing to shrink. But a CNN/ORC instant poll right after the debate found that shed won it by more than a two-to-one margin. Should her performance last night be enough to move the needle back?
Well have to wait for polls a few days from now for the answer to that question. But lets pause for one moment to savor how Clinton performed last night. My heart sank with her first answer, to a question about job creation: her usual diligent wonky A-students recitation of a list of prefab economic proposals that the brain instantly tunes out, that no one thinks will ever happen, and that have been promised by Democratic politicians in every presidential election since Carter and then Mondale were slaughtered by Ronald Reagan.
But what followed was something of a miracle: Hillary from then on mustered a pitch-perfect response to the boor on the other side of the split screen. She stuck to substance (of which he had none) and waited out his diatribes (many long waits) either by looking slightly bemused or by outright laughing at his absurdities. She refused to get lost in the weeds of his many lies and factual errors urging viewers to consult fact-checkers online instead and allowed herself some actual wit. If were actually going to look at the facts she said early on, throwing the line away lightly but devastatingly (though her target seemed oblivious to the dig). When Trump went on and on to try to pin his own birtherism campaign on her, a foolhardy errand in which he assumed the audience understood his oblique references to Sidney Blumenthal and Patti Solis Doyle, she retorted, smilingly, with Just listen to what you heard. It was a perfect response, directing the audience simply to watch her opponent as he choked on his own incoherent gusher of words. And when Trump went on his bizarre tear about how he had really, truly been opposed to the Iraq War early on, and how Sean Hannity could vouch for him despite all the evidence to the contrary, she replied with an even bigger smile and the mot juste for the moment: O-kay!
Finally, there was that great final-round climax when she refused to allow Trump, who tried to brush past the fact that he had attacked her for not having a presidential look, to change the subject from looks to stamina, as she put it. She cited a number of his misogynistic slurs, then brought it home with a fresh incident, his referring to a beauty-pageant contestant who didnt meet his physical standards as Miss Housekeeping because she was Hispanic. It was a tough and stirring moment, for which Trump could muster no better response than another attack on Rosie ODonnell. Sad!
All that said, the margin in the instant debate-night poll was virtually the same as the margin that had Mitt Romney killing Barack Obama in the first debate of 2012. I will say for the hundredth time that the one thing Trump is right about is that his supporters would still vote for him if he shot someone on Fifth Avenue. And they will still vote for him after this debate. This was a big night for fact-checking by a plethora of major news organizations, but whats lost in this frenzy of media empiricism, worthy as it is, is that Trumps supporters dont care about the facts any more than he does. This election is a culture war, not a debate over policy, and in that war Trump is the white-guys guy.
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http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/09/hillary-clintons-pitch-perfect-debate-put-downs.html
hibbing
(10,098 posts)elleng
(130,984 posts)whats lost in this frenzy of media empiricism, worthy as it is, is that Trumps supporters dont care about the facts any more than he does. This election is a culture war, not a debate over policy, and in that war Trump is the white-guys guy.'
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)All the top search terms were really great for Hillary. So yeah, a lot of people decided to wake up en masse.
ginnyinWI
(17,276 posts)He won't lose supporters, but she might acquire a few Millennials who haven't been very interested up until now.
Cicada
(4,533 posts)They just had a vague unflattering image of her. That's probably why she has lost support among many of them. Now they know better, having seen her as she really is. I think that will be the best result of the debate for HRC, a lot of millennial coming home to where their beliefs should lead them.
Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)lindysalsagal
(20,694 posts)Many people were previously staying home. Maybe not now, after seeing the hyena implode.
Il_Coniglietto
(373 posts)If after everything that has transpired in this campaign they can continue to back that buffoon, there's absolutely nothing Hillary Clinton could say or do to sway them.
However, there are still those precious few who are either undecided (how? HOW?) or are considering a third-party/not voting. It is they Hillary is trying to reach, and I think she made some inroads last night.
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)I am white and he ain't my guy.
Augiedog
(2,548 posts)tRump is an ass of titanic proportions. His followers are dumbasses of equally titanic proportions. This notion that all white guys are stupid enough to fall tRumps crap has got to stop. It's the same thing as saying all Muslins are terrorists, all Mexicans are rapists and all Blacks are gang banging gun slingers. tRump is not the white-guys guy, he is the haters guy, the misogynists guy, the racists guy, the tax cheaters guy, the white supremacists guy. He is the Republicans GUY. As much as I admire Mr Rich's writing I don't think his accusation is valid. Try again Mr Rich.
tavernier
(12,393 posts)Augiedog
(2,548 posts)Wednesdays
(17,383 posts)And I didn't take that line personally.
ginnyinWI
(17,276 posts)My dad would have loved Trump. (But he passed away six years ago at age 82.)
Listening to Donald last night reminded me a lot of my dad when he would get on a rant. He was a FOX news addict and his favorite sport was sitting in his recliner watching all the shows and then writing me email screeds.
I was thinking last night that this guy should be in a recliner in his t-shirt yelling, not in a Presidential debate!
allan01
(1,950 posts)favor.
bucolic_frolic
(43,200 posts)That is a skill that takes intelligence and practice. She sees the forest
and the trees. She has mental flexibility, not rigidity, and she brought
a well-honed strategy. She was well prepped, her team performed
exceedingly well.
LAS14
(13,783 posts)but whats lost in this frenzy of media empiricism, worthy as it is, is that Trumps supporters dont care about the facts any more than he does. This election is a culture war, not a debate over policy, and in that war Trump is the white-guys guy.
He doesn't have enough hard core supporters to win. It matters that the leaners and the GOPers who are holding their noses and the third party folks saw all this.