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DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
Tue Sep 27, 2016, 03:44 PM Sep 2016

How Hillary Clinton’s Pitch-perfect Put-downs May Have Changed the Race - By Frank Rich

Most weeks, New York Magazine writer-at-large Frank Rich speaks with contributor Alex Carp about the biggest stories in politics and culture. Today: the first 2016 presidential debate.

Going into last night’s debate, polls showed Hillary Clinton’s lead over Donald Trump continuing to shrink. But a CNN/ORC instant poll right after the debate found that she’d won it by more than a two-to-one margin. Should her performance last night be enough to move the needle back?
We’ll have to wait for polls a few days from now for the answer to that question. But let’s pause for one moment to savor how Clinton performed last night. My heart sank with her first answer, to a question about job creation: her usual diligent wonky A-student’s recitation of a list of prefab economic proposals that the brain instantly tunes out, that no one thinks will ever happen, and that have been promised by Democratic politicians in every presidential election since Carter and then Mondale were slaughtered by Ronald Reagan.

But what followed was something of a miracle: Hillary from then on mustered a pitch-perfect response to the boor on the other side of the split screen. She stuck to substance (of which he had none) and waited out his diatribes (many long waits) either by looking slightly bemused or by outright laughing at his absurdities. She refused to get lost in the weeds of his many lies and factual errors — urging viewers to consult fact-checkers online instead — and allowed herself some actual wit. “If we’re actually going to look at the facts … ” she said early on, throwing the line away lightly but devastatingly (though her target seemed oblivious to the dig). When Trump went on and on to try to pin his own birtherism campaign on her, a foolhardy errand in which he assumed the audience understood his oblique references to Sidney Blumenthal and Patti Solis Doyle, she retorted, smilingly, with “Just listen to what you heard.” It was a perfect response, directing the audience simply to watch her opponent as he choked on his own incoherent gusher of words. And when Trump went on his bizarre tear about how he had really, truly been opposed to the Iraq War early on, and how Sean Hannity could vouch for him despite all the evidence to the contrary, she replied with an even bigger smile and the mot juste for the moment: “O-kay!”

Finally, there was that great final-round climax when she refused to allow Trump, who tried to brush past the fact that he had attacked her for not having a “presidential look,” to change the subject from “looks to stamina,” as she put it. She cited a number of his misogynistic slurs, then brought it home with a fresh incident, his referring to a beauty-pageant contestant who didn’t meet his physical standards as “Miss Housekeeping” because she was Hispanic. It was a tough and stirring moment, for which Trump could muster no better response than another attack on Rosie O’Donnell. Sad!

All that said, the margin in the instant debate-night poll was virtually the same as the margin that had Mitt Romney killing Barack Obama in the first debate of 2012. I will say for the hundredth time that the one thing Trump is right about is that his supporters would still vote for him if he shot someone on Fifth Avenue. And they will still vote for him after this debate. This was a big night for fact-checking by a plethora of major news organizations, but what’s lost in this frenzy of media empiricism, worthy as it is, is that Trump’s supporters don’t care about the facts any more than he does. This election is a culture war, not a debate over policy, and in that war Trump is the white-guys’ guy.

-snip-

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/09/hillary-clintons-pitch-perfect-debate-put-downs.html
18 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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How Hillary Clinton’s Pitch-perfect Put-downs May Have Changed the Race - By Frank Rich (Original Post) DonViejo Sep 2016 OP
Sad! ...hehehe n/t hibbing Sep 2016 #1
'This was a big night for fact-checking by a plethora of major news organizations, but elleng Sep 2016 #2
you hit that one on the head, ellen! Smart, pithy points made! CTyankee Sep 2016 #3
But studies of Internet traffic showed a huge spike to her website's fact checking .... bettyellen Sep 2016 #4
as mentioned in the article, ginnyinWI Sep 2016 #5
Many millennial never saw Hillary in action pre-debate Cicada Sep 2016 #8
that, and overall, I think this debate just had to solidify her overall support Fast Walker 52 Sep 2016 #11
This will gotv for her, and will peel off some 3rd-party and Bernie voters. lindysalsagal Sep 2016 #15
Trump supporters are lost to us Il_Coniglietto Sep 2016 #12
Actually, the bat shit insane white guys' bat shit insane white guy joeybee12 Sep 2016 #6
That last sentence is totally wrong!!! I am an older "white guy" and I DO NOT support tRump one bit Augiedog Sep 2016 #7
That's because you're a brilliant, handsome democrat! tavernier Sep 2016 #10
Ahhh, radiantly insightful Augiedog Sep 2016 #16
FWIW, I am in the exact same demographic as you Wednesdays Sep 2016 #13
I'm sure there are plenty of old white GOP guys that love him. ginnyinWI Sep 2016 #17
loooks like i didnt miss anything from the trump by not watching the debate , one sided in hillarys allan01 Sep 2016 #9
Hillary's sense of timing was impeccable bucolic_frolic Sep 2016 #14
It doesn't matter that Trump supporters don't care. LAS14 Sep 2016 #18

elleng

(130,984 posts)
2. 'This was a big night for fact-checking by a plethora of major news organizations, but
Tue Sep 27, 2016, 03:58 PM
Sep 2016

what’s lost in this frenzy of media empiricism, worthy as it is, is that Trump’s supporters don’t care about the facts any more than he does. This election is a culture war, not a debate over policy, and in that war Trump is the white-guys’ guy.'

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
4. But studies of Internet traffic showed a huge spike to her website's fact checking ....
Tue Sep 27, 2016, 04:11 PM
Sep 2016

All the top search terms were really great for Hillary. So yeah, a lot of people decided to wake up en masse.

ginnyinWI

(17,276 posts)
5. as mentioned in the article,
Tue Sep 27, 2016, 04:55 PM
Sep 2016

He won't lose supporters, but she might acquire a few Millennials who haven't been very interested up until now.

Cicada

(4,533 posts)
8. Many millennial never saw Hillary in action pre-debate
Tue Sep 27, 2016, 05:10 PM
Sep 2016

They just had a vague unflattering image of her. That's probably why she has lost support among many of them. Now they know better, having seen her as she really is. I think that will be the best result of the debate for HRC, a lot of millennial coming home to where their beliefs should lead them.

lindysalsagal

(20,694 posts)
15. This will gotv for her, and will peel off some 3rd-party and Bernie voters.
Tue Sep 27, 2016, 07:09 PM
Sep 2016

Many people were previously staying home. Maybe not now, after seeing the hyena implode.

Il_Coniglietto

(373 posts)
12. Trump supporters are lost to us
Tue Sep 27, 2016, 05:48 PM
Sep 2016

If after everything that has transpired in this campaign they can continue to back that buffoon, there's absolutely nothing Hillary Clinton could say or do to sway them.

However, there are still those precious few who are either undecided (how? HOW?) or are considering a third-party/not voting. It is they Hillary is trying to reach, and I think she made some inroads last night.

 

joeybee12

(56,177 posts)
6. Actually, the bat shit insane white guys' bat shit insane white guy
Tue Sep 27, 2016, 04:58 PM
Sep 2016

I am white and he ain't my guy.

Augiedog

(2,548 posts)
7. That last sentence is totally wrong!!! I am an older "white guy" and I DO NOT support tRump one bit
Tue Sep 27, 2016, 05:01 PM
Sep 2016

tRump is an ass of titanic proportions. His followers are dumbasses of equally titanic proportions. This notion that all white guys are stupid enough to fall tRumps crap has got to stop. It's the same thing as saying all Muslins are terrorists, all Mexicans are rapists and all Blacks are gang banging gun slingers. tRump is not the white-guys guy, he is the haters guy, the misogynists guy, the racists guy, the tax cheaters guy, the white supremacists guy. He is the Republicans GUY. As much as I admire Mr Rich's writing I don't think his accusation is valid. Try again Mr Rich.

ginnyinWI

(17,276 posts)
17. I'm sure there are plenty of old white GOP guys that love him.
Tue Sep 27, 2016, 07:54 PM
Sep 2016

My dad would have loved Trump. (But he passed away six years ago at age 82.)

Listening to Donald last night reminded me a lot of my dad when he would get on a rant. He was a FOX news addict and his favorite sport was sitting in his recliner watching all the shows and then writing me email screeds.

I was thinking last night that this guy should be in a recliner in his t-shirt yelling, not in a Presidential debate!

allan01

(1,950 posts)
9. loooks like i didnt miss anything from the trump by not watching the debate , one sided in hillarys
Tue Sep 27, 2016, 05:19 PM
Sep 2016

favor.

bucolic_frolic

(43,200 posts)
14. Hillary's sense of timing was impeccable
Tue Sep 27, 2016, 06:20 PM
Sep 2016

That is a skill that takes intelligence and practice. She sees the forest
and the trees. She has mental flexibility, not rigidity, and she brought
a well-honed strategy. She was well prepped, her team performed
exceedingly well.

LAS14

(13,783 posts)
18. It doesn't matter that Trump supporters don't care.
Tue Sep 27, 2016, 08:08 PM
Sep 2016
but what’s lost in this frenzy of media empiricism, worthy as it is, is that Trump’s supporters don’t care about the facts any more than he does. This election is a culture war, not a debate over policy, and in that war Trump is the white-guys’ guy.


He doesn't have enough hard core supporters to win. It matters that the leaners and the GOPers who are holding their noses and the third party folks saw all this.
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