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Bob Buttons

(51 posts)
Fri Oct 7, 2016, 08:31 PM Oct 2016

Why the leaked transcripts of Hillary's speeches are, IMO, quite possibly a good thing.

Getting so much hate on Twitter, even had folks calling me "stupid" because all they could see was the surface, not the depth, of her speeches. After reading through the actual text (and not the intentionally-worded-as-propaganda summary lines), for the first time I see the potential positive impact a Hillary Clinton presidency could actually have.

I was so fired up about it I sent her campaign an email, which I'm pretty sure will find it's way to a Trash folder fairly quickly. I have no delusions that any of this will actually happen, or that she'll ever even see the message, but I wanted to at least get some feedback on it. Am I crazy? Am I completely alone in the conclusions I came to, or do others actually see what I'm saying and think it makes sense? Would love any opinions.

Here's the email I just sent to her campaign:


I read through the speech transcripts, and they're way better than I expected, actually pretty reassuring. I have a positive message to share in that regard.

I had figured there was something worth hiding in them, but honestly, it was damn refreshing to read her candid viewpoint on so many issues she seems to always hedge around when discussing publicly. That's what I loved about Bernie Sanders, how frank and honest he was. It's okay that the answer isn't perfect, but speaking accurately about the true way something is, I think, is an insanely valuable, and quite frankly, rare commodity in modern political discourse.

Seriously -- I can't stress this enough. I was feeling so lukewarm about a Clinton presidency, but after reading through the snippets of transcripts, I came away with a real sense that Hillary has a solid, grounded understanding of most of the problems we face and the reality of the situation at hand. (Then again, I'm the guy at the office known for practical, pragmatic solutions to problems that actually solve things, while others waffle about the perfect way to do something. So maybe I'm an outlier.)

Sure, her comments on money in politics (not knowing how to fix it, because SCOTUS ruled on Citizens United so that's that) leaves a lot to be desired, and her acceptance of revolving-door practices is less than stellar. But those are both pretty much just the typical establishment mentality, so I don't really fault her for that. (Probably not the sort of thing you'd want to highlight, though, I'd imagine.)

I think Hillary's strength is, without a doubt, her no-nonsense pragmatic approach. Build on that, please! I would love to see more of that. I get the feeling that most informed voters (ever how few those actually are) know how the sausage is made, or at least, we have some idea it's not awesome. Tell us about it. Drill down into the ways things are flawed. Even if there's no obvious, easy answer, it'll be a beautiful opening to a conversation we desperately need to have in this country. How do you think Bernie actually gained so much momentum? We're out here, lying in wait, for someone to be real with us. Maybe he picked up a few "free college" voters along the way, but the groundswell was from all the progressives just hoping, waiting, wishing someone would come along and tell it like it is (and not in the disgusting false way some candidates seem to think is "telling it like it is&quot . We can't fix these problems until we actually start talking about them, and dammit, let's start now. (Or maybe in a month or so.)

If Hillary gave public speeches like these, (fireside podcasts, if you will), I think they would be wildly popular. Just explain the system to us, in all it's broken splendor. Don't bother telling us how you're going to fix it, necessarily, just explain it how it is, why it's like that (love the speech discussing the history of medicare/medicaid and how we came to have such a messed up medical insurance industry). Think of how many young people that would influence, those who are just getting into politics and don't already have a basic understanding of these things... it would be *AMAZING*.

Screw the haters -- there are always going to be people who see things like this and can only conclude "SHE'S PAY TO PLAY". Of course there's some of that, it's one of the problems with the system. If Hillary didn't work the circuit, she wouldn't have ever made it to where she is. Even if folks like me are in the minority, it only takes a handful of people to do a world of good. Just, seriously, please, pass along the idea to someone who has her ear. I genuinely, truly, in my heart of hearts, believe something like a "fireside podcast" explaining historical context, existing programs/policies, problems etc. would give many an understanding of modern politics that just isn't easily obtained right now. Own it! We *need* that leader, and with the deep understanding I now know Hillary has on these topics, I really believe that leader can be her.

At any rate, I wanted to share my thoughts. You already had my vote, but I'm no longer just voting against Trump. Seriously, leaked emails actually made me feel *better* about what a Clinton presidency could be. I'm actually hopeful again.

Oh man, what a cheesy way to end an email, but it's what I'm feeling, so, fuck it: I'm with her.

(Source of transcripts I'm referencing: https://www.buzzfeed.com/rubycramer/wikileaks-appears-to-release-hillary-clintons-paid-speech-tr?utm_term=.ta20lpjqK#.kkqKop9jR)
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Why the leaked transcripts of Hillary's speeches are, IMO, quite possibly a good thing. (Original Post) Bob Buttons Oct 2016 OP
Agree Johnny2X2X Oct 2016 #1
Hillary has also grown on all the issues since that still_one Oct 2016 #2
As a Hillary Supporter since 2008 I feel like I knew what you found out through reading transcripts! Madam45for2923 Oct 2016 #3
She's just so lawyerly in public Bob Buttons Oct 2016 #8
I see your point. :-) Madam45for2923 Oct 2016 #21
I just *really* wish politicians were so candid with the public. Bob Buttons Oct 2016 #4
The bombshell here is she privately is advocating for single payer !! uponit7771 Oct 2016 #5
If there was any chance they were real, the media wouldn't be saying "appears" or anything similar. BobbyDrake Oct 2016 #6
I would assume they're just covering their asses Bob Buttons Oct 2016 #9
Really, I just wanted to post the clip, because it always makes me laugh. nt BobbyDrake Oct 2016 #13
Ha, fair enough Bob Buttons Oct 2016 #22
I seen Matthew28 Oct 2016 #7
Pie in the sky for sure Bob Buttons Oct 2016 #11
I was waiting for the "oh shit" moment. Didn't happen bmstee01 Oct 2016 #10
Exactly! Bob Buttons Oct 2016 #14
Thank you, this is great. I haven't read all her transcripts, pnwmom Oct 2016 #12
Yup, even on that very page it's pretty hateful and misleading Bob Buttons Oct 2016 #17
I couldn't figure out what "team" that was or who summarized it. pnwmom Oct 2016 #23
So, I'm dumb Bob Buttons Oct 2016 #24
Well, then so am I. I couldn't figure out where the headings came from pnwmom Oct 2016 #25
A little "meta" Bob Buttons Oct 2016 #30
I found the transcripts to be enlightening. ram2008 Oct 2016 #15
I was a "Bernie Bro" Bob Buttons Oct 2016 #19
I've been to them all. There's a reason they haven't been leaked by Assange. nt msanthrope Oct 2016 #16
Most people around the internet are giving a collective "meh" Doctor Jack Oct 2016 #18
LOL, yeah the Trump thing tends to dominate Bob Buttons Oct 2016 #20
Were actual transcripts released? lapucelle Oct 2016 #26
Just that email, from what I've seen Bob Buttons Oct 2016 #32
What I read (and admittedly not all yet) radical noodle Oct 2016 #27
90s sex scandals, of course Bob Buttons Oct 2016 #31
LOL! radical noodle Oct 2016 #34
Well, they certainly were prepared to bury them. Barack_America Oct 2016 #28
NuthinBurger... Charlotte Little Oct 2016 #29
Just can't help thinking it could be great Bob Buttons Oct 2016 #33
That's what I like about Rachel sometimes radical noodle Oct 2016 #35
Maddow? Bob Buttons Oct 2016 #36
Yes! radical noodle Oct 2016 #37

Johnny2X2X

(19,066 posts)
1. Agree
Fri Oct 7, 2016, 08:33 PM
Oct 2016

Her words are just what we hear from her in public. Very concerned about working families. She is a little frank about how things get done. But it's all in the context of helping working families

 

Madam45for2923

(7,178 posts)
3. As a Hillary Supporter since 2008 I feel like I knew what you found out through reading transcripts!
Fri Oct 7, 2016, 08:39 PM
Oct 2016

Glad you found her! She's been this way all along!

Brilliant at making an effort to understand and brilliant at understanding sides/situations/issues/problems AND equally interested (actually more) in the solutions/possibilities! AND a hard worker to boot!



Bob Buttons

(51 posts)
8. She's just so lawyerly in public
Fri Oct 7, 2016, 08:44 PM
Oct 2016

I think the problem is, most of my exposure was through media, and she's just so damned lawyerly. Makes it hard to figure someone out when you can tell they're not being completely open. (And I can relate -- I have a really hard time letting my guard down in person and really speaking my mind, I've also been burned by that way too many times.)

But of course, we all know how it'll go in the news -- the "Clinton News Network" that's "totally in the tank for her" will just completely run with it as a negative story, as will every other news network (and probably Fox too, zing!). Negative news generates more ratings than positive, go figure. I wonder if she's done a speech on that one, I bet I would love it.

 

Madam45for2923

(7,178 posts)
21. I see your point. :-)
Fri Oct 7, 2016, 09:04 PM
Oct 2016

Personally, I enjoy her style and use of language. I like knowing that she has put thought to whatever subject she's discussing. Makes me trust that her words passed the test of her brain.

Bob Buttons

(51 posts)
4. I just *really* wish politicians were so candid with the public.
Fri Oct 7, 2016, 08:40 PM
Oct 2016

I feel like half the reason we have such an uninformed electorate is because every politician has talking points, stays on message, etc. If she could actually start a conversation where we got to hear this beautiful intersection of history and modern politics, seriously, I have to believe it would motivate many people to actually do something about it, to be engaged, to get involved.

Seriously, this is just beautiful:


You know, on healthcare we are the prisoner of our past. The way we got to develop any kind of medical insurance program was during World War II when companies facing shortages of workers began to offer healthcare benefits as an inducement for employment. So from the early 1940s healthcare was seen as a privilege connected to employment. And after the war when soldiers came back and went back into the market there was a lot of competition, because the economy was so heated up. So that model continued. And then of course our large labor unions bargained for healthcare with the employers that their members worked for. So from the early 1940s until the early 1960s we did not have any Medicare, or our program for the poor called Medicaid until President Johnson was able to get both passed in 1965. So the employer model continued as the primary means by which working people got health insurance. People over 65 were eligible for Medicare. Medicaid, which was a partnership, a funding partnership between the federal government and state governments, provided some, but by no means all poor people with access to healthcare. So what we’ve been struggling with certainly Harry Truman, then Johnson was successful on Medicare and Medicaid, but didn’t touch the employer based system, then actually Richard Nixon made a proposal that didn’t go anywhere, but was quite far reaching. Then with my husband’s administration we worked very hard to come up with a system, but we were very much constricted by the political realities that if you had your insurance from your employer you were reluctant to try anything else. And so we were trying to build a universal system around the employer-based system. And indeed now with President Obama’s legislative success in getting the Affordable Care Act passed that is what we’ve done. We still have primarily an employer-based system, but we now have people able to get subsidized insurance. So we have health insurance companies playing a major role in the provision of healthcare, both to the employed whose employers provide health insurance, and to those who are working but on their own are not able to afford it and their employers either don’t provide it, or don’t provide it at an affordable price. We are still struggling. We’ve made a lot of progress. Ten million Americans now have insurance who didn’t have it before the Affordable Care Act, and that is a great step forward. And what we’re going to have to continue to do is monitor what the costs are and watch closely to see whether employers drop more people from insurance so that they go into what we call the health exchange system. So we’re really just at the beginning. But we do have Medicare for people over 65. And you couldn’t, I don’t think, take it away if you tried, because people are very satisfied with it, but we also have a lot of political and financial resistance to expanding that system to more people. So we’re in a learning period as we move forward with the implementation of the Affordable Care Act. And I’m hoping that whatever the shortfalls or the glitches have been, which in a big piece of legislation you’re going to have, those will be remedied and we can really take a hard look at what’s succeeding, fix what isn’t, and keep moving forward to get to affordable universal healthcare coverage like you have here in Canada. [Clinton Speech For tinePublic – Saskatoon, CA, 1/21/15]


If that was a podcast transcript, I would totally subscribe to it, tell all my friends, and listen to it religiously.
 

BobbyDrake

(2,542 posts)
6. If there was any chance they were real, the media wouldn't be saying "appears" or anything similar.
Fri Oct 7, 2016, 08:41 PM
Oct 2016

I'm going to let this clip from my all-time favorite Star Trek, Deep Space 9, speak for me.

Bob Buttons

(51 posts)
9. I would assume they're just covering their asses
Fri Oct 7, 2016, 08:46 PM
Oct 2016

I'd imagine they're just covering their asses, since they could be sued if it turns out to not be legit. But, I dunno, it sounds pretty credible and definitely reads as though it's her voice. Plus, too much of it is positive to all be faked, who would go to that much effort?

*shrug* Even if it is fake, it still made me feel better about her as a candidate. So, go figure!

Bob Buttons

(51 posts)
11. Pie in the sky for sure
Fri Oct 7, 2016, 08:48 PM
Oct 2016

Yeah, that's a bit idealistic, but IMO, wouldn't it be nice if we lived in a world where that was a reasonable discussion to have? We've shifted so far to the right that "center" is completely over the line. It's like we're playing volleyball with the net right up against the wall.

bmstee01

(453 posts)
10. I was waiting for the "oh shit" moment. Didn't happen
Fri Oct 7, 2016, 08:47 PM
Oct 2016

I saw someone that acknowledges that she has been far removed from the middle class. That is accurate. And that's why she went on a listening tour and talked to people and crafted her policies around the needs and worries of the public.
I appreciate the candor from her. Don't pretend like you're one of the people bc she you aren't. But you can be far removed from the middle class and still believe that the good of the economy relies on a strong middle class.
The public and private thing. I'm a teacher. There are things that I cannot/ should not say publicly about test scores or school policies. Everyone has to be careful with what they say.
And I believe in trade. I think we need to make trade deals that are fair and I do feel badly for manufacturers that have seen hard times. So I would like to see trade deals that can help rebuild manufacturing. But we have to trade! That's a reality.

Bob Buttons

(51 posts)
14. Exactly!
Fri Oct 7, 2016, 08:53 PM
Oct 2016

Same -- I read through a couple and thought "man, I want to post about this on twitter" but kept waiting, assuming somewhere in there would be this horrible speech about something deplorable. Just never came.

Without a doubt, I definitely disagree with a number of points. But we're talking about a much higher level of debate than anything I'd have expected to find in "leaked transcripts".

And as far as manufacturing goes, on a long enough timeline (like 50 years), everything will be 100% automated, and the only "manufacturing jobs" that will exist are the ones that involve programming the AI that runs the robotics. We're already seeing that in China, with fully automated PCB assembly, and the impressive setup over at Tesla Motors. So, IMO, the "bring manufacturing jobs back" argument is firmly rooted in the mid-20th century, and a relatively useless argument. I have no idea what that means for the future, but it's like, let's just concede that manufacturing jobs are gone, and go from there.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
12. Thank you, this is great. I haven't read all her transcripts,
Fri Oct 7, 2016, 08:48 PM
Oct 2016

but everything I read sounded good to me. But you have to actually READ them, which is too much work for most people. Much easier to read the little sound bytes the haters clip from them.

Bob Buttons

(51 posts)
17. Yup, even on that very page it's pretty hateful and misleading
Fri Oct 7, 2016, 08:57 PM
Oct 2016

I stopped reading the "headlines" and just read the text, because whoever summarized it clearly had their own agenda.

Compare the summary with the reality:


*CLINTON TALKS ABOUT HOLDING WALL STREET ACCOUNTABLE ONLY FOR POLITICAL REASONS*


vs


And I think that there’s a lot that could have been avoided in terms of both misunderstanding and really politicizing what happened with greater transparency, with greater openness on all sides, you know, what happened, how did it happen, how do we prevent it from happening? You guys help us figure it out and let’s make sure that we do it right this time. And I think that everybody was desperately trying to fend off the worst effects institutionally, governmentally, and there just wasn’t that opportunity to try to sort this out, and that came later.


But, that's one long train of thought, in a time when so many of us are completely off the rails.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
23. I couldn't figure out what "team" that was or who summarized it.
Fri Oct 7, 2016, 09:12 PM
Oct 2016

A Wikileaks team, perhaps? If so, it shows once again that they're on the Trump/Putin team.

Bob Buttons

(51 posts)
24. So, I'm dumb
Fri Oct 7, 2016, 09:19 PM
Oct 2016

So, I feel a little foolish after that. Dur, it's the body of the email.

So, let me back up a bit. That leak is an email from someone's hotmail account, which was their own summary of her speeches, with the titles as a sort of "worst possible attack line" summary above each section. The kind of thing you would imagine a lawyer might prepare for a legal defense.

So, yeah, in a sense those are the negative hit pieces. But, that was the point of the entire email, so, yeah. I got so wrapped up in the trees that I kind of lost track of the forest.

Bob Buttons

(51 posts)
30. A little "meta"
Fri Oct 7, 2016, 11:04 PM
Oct 2016

Heh, yeah it's a bit weird to be reading an article about an email about contingencies about transcripts of speeches. Seems pretty easy to get lost somewhere along the way

ram2008

(1,238 posts)
15. I found the transcripts to be enlightening.
Fri Oct 7, 2016, 08:54 PM
Oct 2016

I've been someone who called for their release since the beginning.

They may have been a bit damaging in the primary (bit too moderate and elitist), but to me this shows someone who thinks the issues through and through, who has done her homework, and who knows how to get things done politically. She accurately predicted the rise of Trump and to a lesser extent Bernie Sanders.

Bob Buttons

(51 posts)
19. I was a "Bernie Bro"
Fri Oct 7, 2016, 09:01 PM
Oct 2016

In the sense that I am male, I suppose, I was a "Bernie Bro" -- the minute he announced and focused on campaign finance reform, he had my vote. So I was pretty disappointed when he lost to someone that I perceived as "part of the problem", but after reading through those, I see it's more of the case that she didn't believe (and probably correctly) that she had the political capital to fight against the system and win.

So, knowing that she's rational, sees the problem, and has a solid understanding of what got us to where we are, I now think that maybe, just maybe, she'll do something about it. When she wins the election.

Doctor Jack

(3,072 posts)
18. Most people around the internet are giving a collective "meh"
Fri Oct 7, 2016, 09:00 PM
Oct 2016

The opinions seem to range from "she sounds good. Why didn't she release these months ago" to "nothing really interesting here" to "did she talk about sexually assaulting people?"

Bob Buttons

(51 posts)
20. LOL, yeah the Trump thing tends to dominate
Fri Oct 7, 2016, 09:03 PM
Oct 2016

Whatever Trump did today, you can be sure, is going to look and smell a lot like a dumpster fire. If that dumpster was filled with human excrement. From 50 years ago.

Kinda hard to block that out and focus on anything else. I'll be so glad when we're finally done with this election, I think I'll let out like a 5-minute-long sigh of relief. (Or a 5-minute-long scream of terror, though luckily that seems less and less likely now.)

Bob Buttons

(51 posts)
32. Just that email, from what I've seen
Fri Oct 7, 2016, 11:05 PM
Oct 2016

The email summarizes various passages from the transcripts, so not the full speeches, but decent chunks of them.

radical noodle

(8,000 posts)
27. What I read (and admittedly not all yet)
Fri Oct 7, 2016, 10:03 PM
Oct 2016

seemed positive to me too. Of course there are those who want to make a big deal of some of it but that doesn't mean that I think she's wrong about it.

Can't imagine what Fox is talking about tonight.

Charlotte Little

(658 posts)
29. NuthinBurger...
Fri Oct 7, 2016, 10:16 PM
Oct 2016

Seriously, who give's a rat's ass. Hillary is a politician. Let us all not forget that. Nor should any of us pretend that she's Mother Teresa. Over her career, she's mis-stepped. She's put her foot in her mouth, etc. BUT, she's also fantastically qualified to lead this country.

Politics is a nasty field. She's a member of it. Let's not glorify her, just support her for the candidate she is after years of doing great good and some questionable, politicky type stuff. We're talking the minor leagues compared to Trump here.

Before anyone thinks I'm maligning HRC, don't. Because, I'm not. I've donated, I'm on Twitter fighting the good fight on her behalf, and looking for ways to volunteer (I live in CA, so not as many options!)

I admire Hillary Clinton tremendously, but I don't expect her to be perfect. I mean, who human is? Thus, the speech text above means very little to me - and yes, I read it, every last word of it. I also believe that the average American isn't going to read it. Wikileaks has dulled, just as "Crooked Hillary" and "33,000 deleted emails" have. It's just no fire, let alone smoke.

Bob Buttons

(51 posts)
33. Just can't help thinking it could be great
Fri Oct 7, 2016, 11:08 PM
Oct 2016

We've desperately needed someone to just sit us down and walk us through things from start to finish -- so many people have a very narrow view of history. Most people won't ever choose to be actively engaged in politics, but with the amount of knowledge she has of politics and historical context, it seems like there's an opportunity there for her to put out some info that interested people *could* dig into. Wishful thinking? Yeah, totally, completely. But I can dream, dammit!

radical noodle

(8,000 posts)
35. That's what I like about Rachel sometimes
Fri Oct 7, 2016, 11:24 PM
Oct 2016

she gives the full story, not just tonight's episode. I would love to know the history of things because I think it would clarify for everyone what needs to be done to fix these things.

Bob Buttons

(51 posts)
36. Maddow?
Fri Oct 7, 2016, 11:31 PM
Oct 2016

Rachel Maddow? Abso-freaking-lutely. It's like listening to someone telling you an interesting story. I think it's something she started in her radio days, and I'm glad she stuck with it.

Especially with everything these days being so fast-paced and always-on, sometimes what we really need is to slow down, take a step back, and soak in the big picture.

radical noodle

(8,000 posts)
37. Yes!
Fri Oct 7, 2016, 11:47 PM
Oct 2016

Some complain because she "goes on" too long, but I love the little history lessons. You're exactly right about the big picture.

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