I've heard corporations view it that way and will weigh the cost of the penalty vs the cost of providing insurance. The thing is we've now given our employers the comparative figure to base the decision on. I'm not sure if this is good for us.

That sounds better to me.

The constitution is far less concerned with the term "tax". Law, on the other hand, cares deeply. What Roberts is getting at, and why I suspect alot of constitutional scholars don't think this case has much chance, even with this court, is that the government has the power to take your wealth to pay for stuff that is in the national interest. They are limited in their ability to do things "disproportionately", especially with respect to the states. Can't tax one state more than another just because they don't like 'em. But it would seem well within their authority to have a fee/tax/charge whatever for "health insurance" and allow an exemption, or "a payment in lieu of" to an insurance company instead.

I don't LIKE the mandate, but I'm dubious it is unconstitutional. Maybe it SHOULD be unconstitutional, but I'm dubious the way this one is structure that it is. As was stated in the courts yesterday, if you don't buy insurance, you pay a fee/fine/tax/penalty. That's it. You aren't guilty of a "crime" or of any "civil violation". You pay the government, not an insurance company. And there is even an "inability to pay" consideration that "exempts" people from the obligation. It's abominable, but probably legal.

If one decides to go against the mandate then those individuals must pay a fine which is levied as a tax.

We will see what the SC says.

just saying it a different way.

You say it is a mandate when that suits your purpose and say it is a tax when that suits your purpose. President Obama did not equivocate.

I think they will rule its simply a legislative matter that is under the jurisdiction of Congress. End of story.

said it appeared from comments that all the Justices agreed it was not a tax. So if that is true they will move on to the meat of the matter.

"this is required" of citizens....if you do not comply, XY and Z will happen...(fee, tax, whatever)

The Prez is just shunning the label tax for obvious reasons.

the penalty for not complying is not a tax. It is 'collected' through the IRS for purposes of ease of collection.

The mandate is not a tax, its a requirement, and the fine/penalty is collected thru IRS for ease of collection; it is not levied as a tax.

may arise from the same place.

If government taxed you, and then allowed you to pick a health plan from the exchange and then paid for it with the tax they collected from you, you would end up in exactly the same place. The exact same people would get the exact same dollars, but the argument would be about a "tax" instead of a "mandate". The program could be sructured precisely the same and the difference would only be semantic.

Does constitutionality of this program hang entirely from semantics? This is where I think he is coming from. He is poking at semantic distinctions that make no difference in regard to impact. Is it a penalty or a tax? Either way, it is $1000 out of your pocket... (the "penalty" in this case is scaled to income, not infraction.. so it is more similar to a tax than a fine in application)

The comments made by the other Supreme Court judges made that very clear.

Tax increase is right wing propaganda.

Like President Obama is going to come out and say he increased taxes on those without health insurance.

They cant hear cases about taxes until an actual case involving the tax is brought to court.

Roberts and Alito NEVER met a corporation they didn't like (or an individual they did like). If the big
insurance companies want the law struck down, chances are, it will be. We can only hope this might
be the big exception to the rule, but so far, that has proved about as effective as hoping for abstinence
in a Nevada brothel.

iirc, it was put in the bill for them after consultations with the admin.

ellen fl

kind of geeky that way.

Were you able to listen to the proceedings today? C-Span has them, and will broadcast them tonight.

More tomorrow!

late headlines....Obama Healthcare in Trouble....In Jeopardy...Justices have serious issues...
blah blah blah.

It is so sad...that it is turned into a dirty word. My father-in-law, who gets us to pay for
his great pension and healthcare (ex military who never saw a second of action) dissing
efforts to get affordable care for others. Insanely hypocritical.

By the way, he and I are always at odds about politics. He is 100% convinced Obama
will be defeated. So we bet. A local restaurant has a limo you can pay for to pick you up and
drive you to and from the restaurant. I can not wait to see him pull up in front of
our house and shell out all the money for the limo and dinner.

And that won't stop the healthcare law to be enacted the way it was written.