Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

davidn3600

(6,342 posts)
Tue Nov 22, 2016, 10:27 PM Nov 2016

Well.....what can I say about this mess......

I hate to say that everything I predicted to happen....happened....and then some. I was pretty pissed after the election. Probably good that DU was down because I would have blown up on some. But I've calmed down and took a lot of thinking about it. I won't get into Trump much on this thread. I want to first address the election, the Democratic party, and why we lost. It's important before we put this in the rear-view mirror. Sorry if it is long, but its a lot on my mind.

First off. I was right. I have to say it because I was attacked for it constantly. I predicted the Florida loss. I've lived here almost 30 years. I know it's politics and I know how it swings. I had a bad feeling about it for weeks. Yet I was called a "concern troll." I was being told by DUers who live in California that Hillary would win Florida by more than 5 points.
Michigan I thought could be vulnerable, especially after the things Michael Moore and others were saying that knew that state. He was mocked for suggesting that. People called Michael Moore crazy for suggesting Trump could win Michigan. Why was it that Hillary voters refused to listen to people like us?

So how bad is the loss? It's Bad! Prepare yourselves....
After this election, the Republican party has more power than it has ever had in their history going back to the days of the Civil War. They now control 67 of the 98 state legislative houses. That is more then twice what the Democrats control. They control both legislative houses in 32 states. They now have 31 of 50 governors.
While Obama has been President, the Democrats have lost 919 state legislative seats. That is the biggest loss in an 8 year span in the history of the nation. Democrats are also now nearly extinct in the South. Now the GOP will also control the White House, the Senate, and the House. They have preserved their conservative majority on the Supreme Court for likely at least another generation. They now control literally EVERYTHING about the American government.

Those of you who have been gloating about this so-called "imminent death of the GOP".....just shut the fuck up. Seriously, I told you that talk was bullshit. I dont want to hear about that fantasy shit anymore.

We just had an election where the GOP nominee suggested we should build a wall on the southern border. We had an opponent that suggested ON VIDEO that it's OK to grope women and grab them by the pussy without consent. We had an opponent that wants to ban all Muslims from entering the country. YET....despite all that...Donald J. Trump got more voters from Latinos, women, and African-Americans than Mitt Romney!!! Believe it, ladies and gentleman. Because that's reality staring at you in the face. 53% of white women in America voted for Trump. Hillary won only 87% of Afican-Americans, Obama got 93%. Trump got 5 points more Latino voters than Romney did. 58% of Cuban-Americans voted for Trump. I remember 1 week before the election I posted an op here suggesting Cuban-Americans were breaking hard for Trump. I was attacked.

I wont go on a multiple Hillary-bashing threads here beyond this because its pointless now and everyone is getting sick of it. But I feel some things are very important here and need to be said in order to understand why this party lost. I will say that she made some very BIG mistakes. She focused more on attacking Trump than on the issues. The same mistakes many of the GOPers made in the primary against Trump. She did not step foot in Wisconsin and ignored Michigan until it was way too late. She did not engage the rural Democratic voters in Pennsylvania. Go to these towns and communities in the rural parts of the midwest...they are hallowed out. Entire industries are gone. Property values have crashed. They can't afford their Obamacare premiums anymore. People there who are lucky enough to have any job haven't had a raise in years. Meanwhile, Hillary Clinton and Tim Kaine were wasting time trying to woo Latino voters in Arizona and Florida...states she lost anyway.
These voters in the midwest place blame the loss of their jobs squarely on free trade. Trade deals like NAFTA that Hillary's husband signed into law. Trade deals like TPP who Obama was trying to jam down our throats. Not only that, but Hillary supported expanding guest worker programs like the H1B visa program that companies like Disney were abusing in order to hire cheaper foreign labor.

No matter how you want to look at it...the Democrats were on the wrong side of the jobs debate. They ignored the midwest and rust belt region. They ignored the economic hardships of middle class. Trump was smart enough to see that opening. And he dove right through it. Suddenly these voters who the Democrats were ignoring found somewhere else to go.

Something has to change. The party doesn't appeal to voters outside the big cities anymore. 1/3rd of Democrats in the House are from only 3 states...CA, NY, and MA. New York and Los Angeles is the only reason Hillary won the popular vote. The Democrats are a "big city" party that is out of touch with rural America. The leadership is lazy, rich, and corrupt. They don't understand the middle class. They are too obsessed with winning on identity politics that they are sacrificing the core values of this party. We are going to sacrifice the concerns of American workers in the midwest, who's jobs have vanished, in order to pander to other groups we THINK will be a bigger player in future elections. That is identity politics right there. And its why we lost.

Anyway, that's my take on the conclusion of this fucking mess. Go ahead and attack me all you want. I've been attacked and spit on all year long for speaking the truth. Im used to it.

Finally on one last note, I will say that I recognize Hillary's campaign meant a lot to many women out there. And it's now gotten lost in all this crazy transition talk. But even though she didnt make it to the Oval Office, she started to pave a new road towards it that wasn't there before. There will be more women who will come along and try to finish the road and learn from the mistakes Hillary made and be more prepared for the unique struggles she faced during the campaign. The first female president is alive out there somewhere. It'll happen someday. You just have to view 2016 an attempt to learn from.

14 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies

still_one

(92,219 posts)
1. I am sure Comey and the FBI interference had nothing to do with it, or the media
Tue Nov 22, 2016, 10:40 PM
Nov 2016

LYING the the "Clinton email investigation was being reopened", and then parading every right wing politician across their screens to push the BIG LIE.

After a few days when it started to quiet down some, fox news bret baier came out and said "from his sources in the FBI an indictment is pending against the Clinton Foundation". A LIE, which was reported on google news, and other outlets. 48 hours later, bret baier apologized adn said he was mistaken, there was no pending indictment. That did not stop fox news, the trump campaign, or social media sites from repeating the lie.

Then comes the fact that so many people seem to ignore.

Hillary lost Michigan by .3%. Jill Stein received 1.1% of the vote. Same thing occurred in Wisconsin, and other critical states.

The fact that a significant number of Sanders supporters voted for third party, refused to vote for Hillary made the difference.

Another point that seems to also get lost is that Zypher Teachout, and Russ Feingold also lost, along with every swing state Democrat against the establishment republican incumbent

This isn't rocket science. The FBI, the media lies and distortions, and self-identified progressives not only refusing to vote for Hillary, but refusing to vote, is what happened

Those in that group should hold their heads in shame, because their actions gave us trump

 

davidn3600

(6,342 posts)
3. But are you certain those Stein voters would have went for Hillary?
Tue Nov 22, 2016, 10:58 PM
Nov 2016

Same thing with Nader votes in Florida. Can you be certain all those Nader voters would have went to Gore? If Nader wasn't running, perhaps those voters would have voted for a different 3rd party. Perhaps they wouldn't have voted at all.
Now...that's probably a bad example since the 2000 Florida vote was so razor close. But you don't know for certain how the race would have been effected by removing or replacing candidates. Just like some saying Bernie would have won this year against Trump. We don't know that for sure. It's impossible to say.

The FBI thing...it may have had some effect. But from exit polls I looked at, the significant majority of voters made up their mind on who to vote for long before Comey came out and that announcement didn't effect their votes.

You can't look at the opinion polls before the election and try to gauge it too. But, those polls were total garbage.

With Bernie voters, the DNC has themselves to blame for that. They should have taken a far more impartial approach and that convention would not have been as ugly as it turned out to be. Many of those Bernie voters felt the system was rigged and that they had no chance because the establishment was not going to allow them a chance to win. The DNC did really nothing to calm those waters. Debbie was fired, but they replaced her with Donna Brazile who, according to WikiLeaks, gave debate questions to Hillary in advance. The DNC never cleaned up its act to show Bernie voters that it's changed.

still_one

(92,219 posts)
7. bullshit. The system wasn't rigged. Hillary got more votes. The fact that these
Tue Nov 22, 2016, 11:24 PM
Nov 2016

narcissistic selfish jerks enabled the racist and sexist to win, speaks volumes

Also, those wonderful people insured that, Russ Feingol and Zyperh Teachout also lost

These supposed self- identified progressives who didn't vote for Hillary will now insure that citizens united will be stronger then ever, their student loans will be worse than ever, the environment will be jeopardize,d women's rights and civil rights eroded, and so many other things.

Kurt Eichenwald said it best:

"On Friday, I almost assaulted a fan of my work. I was in the Philadelphia International Airport, and a man who recognized me from one of my appearances on a television news show approached. He thanked me for the investigative reporting I had done about Donald Trump before the election, expressed his outrage that the Republican nominee had won and then told me quite gruffly, “Get back to work.” Something about his arrogance struck me, so I asked, “Who did you vote for?”

He replied, “Well, Stein, but—” I interrupted him and said, “You’re lucky it’s illegal for me to punch you in the face.” Then, after telling him to have sex with himself—but with a much cruder term—I turned and walked away.

A certain kind of liberal makes me sick. These people traffic in false equivalencies, always pretending that both nominees are the same, justifying their apathy and not voting or preening about their narcissistic purity as they cast their ballot for a person they know cannot win. I have no problem with anyone who voted for Trump, because they wanted a Trump presidency. I have an enormous problem with anyone who voted for Trump or Stein or Johnson—or who didn’t vote at all—and who now expresses horror about the outcome of this election. If you don’t like the consequences of your own actions, shut the hell up."

http://www.newsweek.com/myths-cost-democrats-presidential-election-521044



LisaL

(44,973 posts)
13. Gore lost Florida by less than 1,000 votes.
Wed Nov 23, 2016, 12:34 AM
Nov 2016

I think it's quite likely that at least 1,000 of Nader voters would have voted for Gore if Nader wasn't running.

still_one

(92,219 posts)
14. Any self-described progressive or Sanders supporter who refused to vote for Hillary have already
Wed Nov 23, 2016, 02:50 AM
Nov 2016

made it loud and clear how they feel about Women's rights, Civil rights, labor rights, the environment, citizens united, the Supreme Court, etc.

They are despicable, just like the FBI's interference in the election, the media's complicity in propagating the false narrative, the fake-news spewed from the social media outlets, and the assholes over at JPR who represent that mindset.

They have setup the damage way beyond 2020.

The defeat of Zypher Teachout and Russ Feingold demonstrates this election was not about jobs, the environment, healthcare, social security or medicare. It was about the problem some have with the "browning of America". Racism and sexism were an integral part of it, and the complicity of the media in its "normalization" all contributed



 

HassleCat

(6,409 posts)
2. Get ready for the hate.
Tue Nov 22, 2016, 10:51 PM
Nov 2016

I agree with your analysis, but there are many people here who will not tolerate such "disloyalty." Until we face up to a number of inconvenient truths, we will slide deeper and deeper into irrelevance.

still_one

(92,219 posts)
8. It sure is. Why did Feingold and Teachout Lose? They sure weren't the "establishment"
Tue Nov 22, 2016, 11:29 PM
Nov 2016

why did every establishment swing state republican incumbent win?

Most of the 27% that voted for trump have a problem with the "browning of America", and yes, race was a factor.

The fact that a significant amount of Sanders supporters refused to vote for Hillary only demonstrates how selfish those self-identified progressives were. They deserve Trump.

WE DON'T

Ace Rothstein

(3,163 posts)
11. The Democratic Party has some serious issues.
Wed Nov 23, 2016, 12:30 AM
Nov 2016

Look at the history since 2000.

2000 - Lost
2002 - Lost
2004 - Lost
2006 - Won
2008 - Won
2010 - Lost
2012 - Won
2014 - Lost
2016 - Lost

When Obama isn't running or Bush isn't flubbing Iraq and hurricane responses we've had a hell of a time winning elections.

CaliforniaPeggy

(149,635 posts)
5. I think your post is right on. There are lessons, bitter ones, to be learned.
Tue Nov 22, 2016, 11:04 PM
Nov 2016

Thank you for spelling it out so very clearly.

Dem2

(8,168 posts)
6. Can't disagree that the party missed the boat wrt suburban voters
Tue Nov 22, 2016, 11:22 PM
Nov 2016

Didn't need all that many of them either , damn shame it wasn't well understood why the polls kept converging after each of the Nazis fuck ups.

LenaBaby61

(6,974 posts)
9. As long as ...
Tue Nov 22, 2016, 11:35 PM
Nov 2016

You have deliberate interference from outside factions like the Russians, FBI and from a soon-to-be tRump DOJ, it really won't matter who the Dems run. Bernie would have lost as well.

Bottom line is that IF an election can be rigged, and if Dems cannot get voting laws/rights upheld, we could run the best candidate ever, and Dems still won't win. We have a problem, and it's not just allegedly with the candidate we ran this time either.

Flatpicker

(894 posts)
10. Democrats
Wed Nov 23, 2016, 12:09 AM
Nov 2016

Were on the wrong side of many things this time.

Didn't help that we allowed the press to dictate the narrative for this election.

Bernie, for all the disruption he brought, was right to call attention to some of the issues mainstream democrats were choosing to ignore.

Though, I think we all underestimated the racial anger in red states. Thought it was just noise from a vocal minority.

It's too bad we all spent the time infighting vs discussing what could be done.

We dismissed Trump as irrelevant and it backfired.

This one hurt us and will hurt for quite awhile.

Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»2016 Postmortem»Well.....what can I say a...