and The Rude One can take his own advice regarding self-copulation.

but the other poster should just ignore you. This little exchange right here, of you coming into someone's thread just to be insulting and then telling that person that if they don't like it they can ignore you is like a microcosm of the whole election drama.

OP posted a deliberately inflammatory article, then acted like people should either agree or shut up.

btw, it's not "someone else's thread" - that's not how boards work. This isn't Facebook or a private blog. Everybody gets to comment.

My point was telling someone to ignore you after you deliberately avoided the opportunity to ignore them comes of as hypocritical. Perhaps I could have expressed myself better when I should have said "The thread this person started but has now actual ownership over that you CHOSE to click on.

I hear you talking, and don't like what you're saying. So I walk up to you, and with a smile on my face say "you can fuck yourself, and if you don't like me telling you to fuck yourself, you can ignore me since I was unable to ignore you."

The opinion was that pain has no color....Whoever thinks this is "insulting" is living in an alternate universe...The "other person" you

referred to, didn't, for some reason, like my opinion, and basically told me to shut up, by suggesting I trash the thread. I simply reminded her that

she was as free to put me on ignore as I was to "trash the thread"...Turnaround is fair play.

Wow, you should read my first post, because you clearly do not understand what I said.

You come in here and insult someone, and when you get called out on it, you play the victim, good for you Troll.

Sorry we triggered you.

in an argument.

The opinion was that pain has no color....Whoever thinks this is "insulting" is living in an alternate universe...The "other person" you

mentioned, didn't, for some reason, like my opinion, and basically told me to shut up, by suggesting I trash the thread. I simply reminded her that

she was as free to put me on Ignore as I was to "trash the thread"...Turnaround is fair play.

But white voters are still a big factor because white workers, especially older white workers, vote more consistently and at higher levels than do non-white workers.

Demographics might be on our side, but changing demographics only count if the demographic you are looking at actually votes and participates.

And I agree that energizing the 41% who do not vote is vital. The more difficult question is how do we energize them? If the prospect of a fascist in the White House was not enough to energize them, what would be?

we should be "grooming" them now for 4 years out. I agree with what they said, we need more non white people on our tickets. I truly believed that say, Julian Castro would have energized our base. We need to get young people in all offices.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!

80 is going to rock the world.

They are both important voices, but they are quite old. We need new blood rising through the ranks right now, to secure the party's future.

I believe Bernie has shown that he DOES have such appeal.

When people get old their bodies begin to fail them, they get sick, and they die. Oftentimes their minds fail as well. It's just a fact of life. It's ridiculous to pretend age is not a factor in someone's ability to do this very difficult job!

Nobody should be discriminated against due to age, if they are equally capable of doing the job. But being a president requires that someone be in top form, both physically and mentally, and also be statistically expected to survive the term. Personally, I'd prefer a candidate to be under 60 years of age.

We need good progressives to follow in the footsteps of Sanders and Warren, and to have the energy to stir the excitement of the populace.

Pipe dreams are pleasant, but we need to face reality and work very hard to get Trump out of office in four years.

Believe me - I know! I am 62.

Naturally there is a lot of variation between individuals, but the statistics show a steady decline as we age (not to mention observed changes at the cellular level).

Nevertheless I voted for Bernie in the primaries. Age is not my number 1 criteria for voting, by any means. But if all else was equal, I would vote for a candidate in their 60s before one in his 70s.

all things being equal, then, MAYBE, take age into consideration as a slight factor. That seems to me as being practical... so, I would agree with that.

And it was kind of petty of me to insistently step on what you found to give you hope.

It doesn't hurt to think Sanders/Warren 2020, as long as we are also supporting the rise of a new crop of Dems while we're at it.

... and, of course, I'm open to potential new candidates who might have their own appeal. We obviously need the best candidate who will have the greatest chance of defeating Mr. Tiny Hands in 2020 before he does permanent damage to our country and way of life.

A lot of people thought a 74 year old Jewish Socialist wining even one state in a primary was a "pipe dream"

Others thought the same for the presidential prospects a black man with the middle name of "Hussein" we're as well.

Unions as well. Far to many of the leaders are much older than the median age of US voters.

So, how do we attract them? It must be more than simply volunteering to make phone calls and send out mailings.

Yet our reps are in touch with many enthusiastic supporters. Hillary is one. Warren another Obama. Michelle. We need them to go out and ignite them, we need to help as well.

We the people need to start this. I want to see Julian Castro more in the spotlight. People like him need to be front and forward.

The GOP is much more of a Parliamentary type party, where there is a specific platform that all must support.

The Democrats are far less organized, far more open to ideas.

I was for Sec of Labor Perez

That's what we really need to find out - age, race, location, gender, etc. so we might effectively engage them.

Some of them we probably do not want to have voting against us - they're fine staying home and watching Fox, Oprah or whatever.

I've not seen any serious studies on exactly who these people are...

FUCKING BRILLIANT!

I said last year that identity politics is a loser. We lost. Are we going to learn or double down? I always thought of the Democrats as more clever than this, but it appears we're suicidal.

How many senate seats are we going to lose because of these hostile proclamations? Stop talking and listen before we hand Trump a filibuster-proof senate. We tried this way and it failed. Stahp!

Identity Politics = Civil Rights

You really want to abandon that cause?

But it cant be your headline act ...

Talk to him. He needs to shut up and stop selling his damn book at our expense.

Grifters got to Grift.

Look, standing up for the rights of all americans is the right thing, but we end up boxed into a corner by the rs when they play culture wars like trump did for the last year and a half.

No one is saying abandon civil rights. But, team hate wins if identity politics is the lead act.

He never stood for all Americans. He never stood for me. Nor most of my friends.

Hillary was going for the complete opposite, the politics of non-identity. In the meantime, her opponent is endorsed by the KKK (and doesn't repudiate it, either).

But the candidate who wanted to bring together women, POC, the LGBT community, immigrants, and Latinos is somehow the person who is running on identity politics.

Of all the gaslighting techniques people have employed, this is about the worst one yet.

Absolutely!

It's how we won with Obama in 2008. It's how we actually won a mid-term in 2006. This is why Bernie was so popular. He was talking about doing things for every section of society. It gave him more broad appeal than narrowly focusing on race.

Using language like what's used in the OP will just cause further exodus of whites from our party. Meaning you can look forward to a filibuster proof Trump. Fun!

Language like this is also completely unhelpful: "You really want to abandon that cause?" Accusatory straw-man language is why we morphed into an echo chamber and lost.

in the goddamn PRIMARY!!!!!!

I am going to bloody well scream if this revisionist shit is continuously lathered up and spread about like some plazzy body scrub in a 20 quid "massage" parlour.

Between shitfuck tangerine plonker Trump, the nazi white trash scum who voted for him but NOW so many are beggin us to chase around like a 3-legged dog chasing a fucking bone on a string, and the baying, bleating "Sanders really won or would have" set, I swear I am gonna snap.

AND, of course, EVERY time I take a butcher's, who is getting gets tossed under the fucking bus? Us women or us people of colour or us LGBTQ folk!!!

Go on Democratic Party, chase after yer fucking racist hate-driven crackers, convince them you can hide us non white non straight non males a long enough time to get their short little fat fucking fingers to hold their nose and vote blue!!!

FUCK THIS SHIT

Pray tell, what "sections" would you leave out?

Let's face it: Obama was the most appealing candidate since JFK.

We need less social justice emphasis and more economic justice

Our focus needs to be on wages, jobs, and the environment. We should spend more time talking about these subjects than everything else combined.

Nm

nm

there is an underlying unity.

Unless you think you have nothing in common with an out-of-work middle-aged white guy...

The average earner of over $74K voted for Trump.

I proudly voted for Hillary. This election made me realize this nation has a lot, a hell of a lot, of bigoted, racist, sexist, misogynistic, frightened, ignorant and overall stupid people. Many that voted for tRump are going to be pissed when he back peddles on what he said he'd do. Funny thing is they won't blame tRump. No, they'll blame Obama, or Hillary, the Democratic Party, or a combination of the three. 😠😡

Everyone I know who was going to vote Democrat talked about having to hold their nose to vote for Clinton. Everyone I know who planned on voting Republican was *stoked* to vote for Trump. This resulted in some bizarre justifications for Trump; for example, every service person I know (and I kinda know a lot) was unhappy having a leader in office who might command them to go into battle, but could be not bothered to serve themselves. Or were to cowardly, if they'd had some drinks. Their children couldn't be bothered to serve this nation. Oh, but Trump had an excuse. Remember those bone spurs?

Trump is a used car salesman who's learned the swindlers trick to turning defect into feature. The only way to deal with someone like that is to shine the light of day on them.

So maybe some recounts?

Nm

It only works if we do it too. Polarizing the electorate along racial lines is a loser when 67% of the country is white. Let them own that mess while we focus on bringing healthcare, education and jobs to people who need it. That is our path back. That is how we can win again.

Let's not be like Labour in the UK, where the party had an identity crisis, imploded and barely exists now. Same thing happened to the left in Israel.

I can 100% guarantee that in 2020, if we promote solutions that will help people and the alt-right can only produce Tila Tequila, Bannon, and Nazi salutes, we win.

...to oppease this sentiment.

Progress is dependent on winning states and having a good electoral strategy, not just espousing general ideals or chastising racial groups.

Losing elections destroys progress.

Not trying to have a go at you, Josh. I just don't see how we make any progress if we've lost every branch of government.

And they will see that their idealized vision isn't happening. We look at the futile attempt to make fossil fuels have a comeback, just not happening.

The white nationalism must be resisted, vanquished a and exposed for exactly what it is. Unfortunately it's going to have to come at great pain to whites most of all, for buying into the rhetoric in literally the very states who cannot and will not be blessed by it.

I'm white. I've noticed that white is somehow the default - the normal, the standard - while every other ethnicity gets labeled as an "identity."

is identity politics.

Class politics >>>> identity politics. Bernie knew but we didn't listen.

Most of the people who voted for Trump are totally against healthcare for all. Many of them disdain education. They would have run from Bernie and his higher taxes and free-stuff-for-all.

But Bernie also opposed the TPP and he talked about stopping the outsourcing of jobs. That plays to every shade of the political spectrum, at least among working class people.

We need a candidate who can give something to everyone. We need broad appeal again. We can win by 85m votes in California, but it doesn't mean shit unless we can win Midwestern states.

we have been spending 30 years trying to appease Reagan democrats. Of course ,we need to focus on the economy, but as long as civil rights can get kicked to the curb, you will have an economy that is weak as it cuts out many people that could otherwise help it.

Or maybe some "democrats" feel that as long as white older males get what they want, to hell with everyone else. I do not think Bernie feels that way, but it seems a lot that invoke him do. That must be how Jesus feels whenever he hears rich people gloss over that bit about how a rich man getting into heaven as is likely as a camel going through the eye of a needle.

And it's the code word for Blue Dogs and DINOs whose only goal is "Get Blue Dog politicians elected" instead of "Fight for Democratic values." It's the battle cry for that faction of the party that got its way this election season, and gave the country a campaign of "We suck less!" Doesn't that make you fired up and ready to go?

Civil rights is a CORE DEMOCRATIC VALUE. And when people see the Quisling Democrats throw this core value aside just to pander for votes from racist pieces of shit that would never vote for them in the first place, it makes the entire party, and the entire country suffer.

Democrats need to return to the core values. They include fighting for poor and working people, and yes, they absolutely must include fighting for civil rights for black people, Latinos, LGBTQIA people, Muslims, women, and every other oppressed group.

When we stop doing what's right because it seems inconvenient and pisses off the assholes that write big checks, that's when we lose.

and we'll get more of the same

But otherwise the Rude one is on target, as usual.

Yes, fuck them.

But, identity politics is a BIG loser.

Nm

but I have also said if I would have changed anything it would have been the choice of Tim Kaine.

We need to turn out the obama coalition. if we do that we win outright and they can't steal it.

But even with that said and done, it cannot be underestimated the harm Comey did to Hillary. I believe he is the one true reason she lost above and beyond anything else. And that is a fucking disgrace for our democracy. Interference from a federal law enforcement agency in our elections disgust me to my core.

nm

Let's not forget Russia as well, strange bedfellows.

Trump on the ballot would have turned out the Coalition by itself.

It was literally tampering with the primaries by media for ratings and ad revenue. Trump was NOT a serious candidate and even a bigger joke than Sanders.

Now we have a batshit crazy person about to enter the White House thanks to this massive malfeasance by the media.

It's a little hard to ask for somebody's vote when you're telling them to go fuck themselves.

If we can feel for the difficulties around issues other groups have, why can we not feel for the difficulty a poor or middle class white guy has? Is his loss of identity, or sense of self, or trouble paying the bills somehow less just because he was born white? If nothing else, finding a way to convince them that we care about their issues, makes it easier to put legislation in place to care about other groups. For example, think about the difference a Trump/Pence presiduncy is going to be like compared to Clinton/Kaine on gay rights.

I'm finding it extremely hard to be all that empathetic, especially since the white working class doesn't seem to give a damn about all the minorities that will suffer under this rancid excuse for a human being.

You said:

Why do you think they are so fearful? White American is on it's way out the door. Not soon enough for me, yet soon. As a white woman I embrace the diversity and do strongly believe that we will see a stronger more forgiving nation.

All white men fear the change, all of them. The power is going to tip. They are not selling they are fearful.

My opinion and it is mine alone...

The OP should read it for this truism, if for nothing else. "If you want someone to listen to you, don't offend them".

Your choice.

That not everyone is going to cheer and give 'recs' for this crap.

Your choice.

Post where you wish and how you wish.

Have fun.

Nite!

Thanks for kicking my thread AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's a choice too.

Agreed, niyad.

why can't we appeal to the working class? Why specifically the WHITE working class? To me, that insinuates that whites are the ONLY ones that work--and I don't think that I am the only one that reads it as such.
Kaine was a horrible pick--I completely agree.
There were so many good choices and that one certainly didn't make me happy.

He offered things like job retraining to coal miners. They didn't want his help. They wanted a bunch of fairy tales and bullshit from a con man about their dangerous, environmentally-unfriendly jobs coming back.

Unions got screwed again and people wonder why the membership could not be sold on the Party. They know their jobs are not coming back. What jobs were they retrained for and what did those jobs offer compared to their lost jobs? It was a GOP agreement but it carried the Clinton signature.