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Exilednight

(9,359 posts)
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 01:32 AM Nov 2016

How We Lost

1. Hillary played the popular vote versus the electoral college. I would have thought that after Gore's defeat in 2000 that anyone with the last name Clinton or Gore would have figured out that elections are not won through the popular vote, but rather through the electoral college.

I know some people will argue that the electoral college should be abolished, but it's not based in reality. It takes a constitutional amendment to change the electoral college, and with the amount of states, House seats and Senate seats that Republicans control - let's just say that we have just a good a chance as abolishing the second amendment.

2. There is a generational divide within the Democratic party. Exit polling shows that a good portion of the Obama coalition stayed home during this election. Millennials were down 5% nationwide for Hillary when compared to Obama in 2012. Hillary, also, lost 5% of the African-American vote and 6% the Hispanic vote when compared to Obama in 2012.

Most of Sanders support came from millennials. Their concerns were more oriented towards what their generation is facing in the future (student loans, environmental issues, good paying jobs coming out of school... etc...) and not on issues like Social Security or major wedge issues like immigration.

3. The party as a whole needs to take a long hard look at our relation with corporate America. The neo-liberal wing believes that all issues can be solved through the market based solutions, but in reality this is not true.

Remember when neo-liberals argued that gay marriage should be legalized for the impact it would have on the wedding business? Just plain old liberals believe that markets have a use, but are not an end all be all to our problems. Gay marriage was finally legalized because it was finally reasoned that it was just the right thing to do - markets played absolutely no role.

Our party took a huge generational leap forward when we nominated Obama, but an even larger one backwards when nominated Hillary. Voter turnout (see 2) proves this point.

4. DNC leadership has been a complete disaster. In 2008 we controlled the Senate, House and Executive. In two years, under the guidance of Debbie Wasserman, we lost 63 seats in the House, which cost us the House. We, also, lost 6 seats in the Senate, but still managed to retain control. In 2014 we lost the Senate. And don't even get me started on Gubernatorial seats and state houses.

Debbie, failed this party in the grandest of ways.

5. This was a change election. Hillary represented the establishment wing of the Democratic Party. What independent voters wanted, and quite a few liberals, was a candidate of change. The Bill Clinton years were good for when they were, but they're not suited for the world of today. Stating that she would put Bill in charge of the economy was not the best of ideas. Any economist worth their weight in salt will tell you that Bill Clinton got lucky from the explosion of the internet, and fortunately for him he managed to get out of office just as the bubble was bursting. His long term economic policy is what lead to many of today's woes. Keeping Greenspan was the biggest mistake Bill made, but at the time he was lauded for it by neo-liberals and Republicans alike.

6. Hillary was a flawed candidate coming out of the gates. Let me say this upfront: There was nothing in Hillary's emails that is illegal. Now, let's not confuse illegal with poor judgement. What Hillary did with the email server was bad judgement, especially for someone who had aspirations of running for president.

Unlike Bill, or Obama, Hillary has a severe problem with coming off as genuine to large audiences. Some will argue and say "you have to get to know her on a personal level", just one problem with this statement - there's only one Hillary Clinton vs millions upon millions upon millions of voters in this country. It's impossible for every voter she needs to reach to get to know her on a personal level.

This is not to even mention that Republicans just plain out hate her. Any other person would have not nearly come under as much scrutiny as anyone with the last name Clinton.

One of the biggest memes going around on this very website was that Hillary has already been vetted, and they were right, she was. Those same people also chose to ignore her flaws. Yes, the overwhelming majority of accusations were false, but without the charisma and ability to connect with audiences she is/was unable to convince voters that they were/are false.

In conclusion: At some point, this party needs to take a long hard look in the mirror and search its soul for what it wants to be. It can't be everything for everybody - politics does not work that way.

Furthermore, we need to examine our candidates and admit when our candidates have flaws.

24 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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How We Lost (Original Post) Exilednight Nov 2016 OP
The Hubris Of The Clinton Ground Game elleng Nov 2016 #1
This message was self-deleted by its author emulatorloo Nov 2016 #2
What a hateful tone, wow. And it needs to ignore the media and FBI to make some sort of point about bettyellen Nov 2016 #19
"Hillary played the popular vote versus the electoral college." emulatorloo Nov 2016 #3
I'M not claiming anything; I'm quoting from an article. elleng Nov 2016 #4
Hi I'm asking the OP, ExiledNight. That's his or her quote. emulatorloo Nov 2016 #6
I am not convinced that she does understand how the EC works. In 2008 she lost the Democratic Nom Exilednight Nov 2016 #14
Plus it is very difficult for the party that has had eight years in the Oval Office... spin Nov 2016 #5
Sure is, especially if they ignore the changing needs of the electorate. elleng Nov 2016 #7
The candidate of a party running for the third term might find it difficult... spin Nov 2016 #8
A good candidate would recognize the sense of the time, elleng Nov 2016 #9
A fair point. (n/t) spin Nov 2016 #10
offs. Don't you ever get tired of this meme? SHE DIDN'T LOSE. And every human being ... Hekate Nov 2016 #11
Who will be inaugurated in January? Exilednight Nov 2016 #15
You keep telling yourself that Hekate Nov 2016 #17
I don't need to keep telling myself anything. History has already proven me correct. Exilednight Nov 2016 #21
The "decent candidate" always wins? So what does that say about Bernie? bettyellen Nov 2016 #18
I never said a decent candidate always wins. Please don't put words in my mouth. Exilednight Nov 2016 #22
So Sanders was not a decent candidate either - never "overcame his flaws" to win.... bettyellen Nov 2016 #23
He was not a decent enough candidate to overcome the forces that were against him. Exilednight Nov 2016 #24
We didn't lose Dream Girl Nov 2016 #12
That's funny.... davidn3600 Nov 2016 #13
Is Hillary being inaugurated in January? If not, then she loss. Exilednight Nov 2016 #16
RUSSIA Madam45for2923 Nov 2016 #20

elleng

(131,143 posts)
1. The Hubris Of The Clinton Ground Game
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 01:35 AM
Nov 2016

This piece was first published in Jacobin under the headline ‘Garbage In, Garbage Out.’

'It is now becoming clear that Clinton’s ground game — the watchword for defenders of her alleged competence — was actually under-resourced and poorly executed. Like so much else in this election, her field strategy was hostage to the colossal arrogance and consequent incompetence of the liberal establishment.

At the heart of the failure was the notion of the “new emerging majority.” According to this argument — pushed by, among others, John Judis and Ruy Teixeira — women, Latinos, blacks, and skilled professionals who support the Democrats were becoming the demographic majority. Thus the traditional white working-class base of the Democratic Party could be sidelined.

Back in July Chuck Schumer summed it up: “For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin.”

From this theory and strategy flowed a deeply flawed set of tactics, and a badly fumbled get-out-the-vote (GOTV) effort.

A labor organizer in Ohio, who wished to remain anonymous, reports that Clinton’s early GOTV effort there focused on Republicans in the mistaken belief a significant number of them could be peeled away. This play largely failed. And it also involved serious opportunity costs: traditional Democratic constituencies like African Americans and the white working class were neglected, and Clinton ended up badly under-performing Obama among both groups, especially in the Rust Belt.

Only in the last two weeks, according to this labor source, did the Democratic Party outreach effort really switch back to traditional Democratic voters. By then, it was too late. Due to lack of preparation, the voter lists guiding the effort had not been updated. Because poorer voters tend to relocate more frequently than home-owning suburbanites, many addresses were wrong. And for lack of more frequent contact the campaign was often unsure about the voters’ current political attitudes.

And when the campaign finally showed up in the African-American, Latino, and white working-class areas they got lots of “so you only come by once every four years?”'>>>

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/the-hubris-of-the-clinton-ground-game_us_5831cebce4b099512f835e78

Response to elleng (Reply #1)

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
19. What a hateful tone, wow. And it needs to ignore the media and FBI to make some sort of point about
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 01:59 PM
Nov 2016

The sainted WWC man again. And this from "liberals" who probably did not vote. Fuck that.

emulatorloo

(44,187 posts)
3. "Hillary played the popular vote versus the electoral college."
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 01:56 AM
Nov 2016

I'm sorry, what does that mean? Sounds like you are claiming HRC is not aware of the electoral college? Or that her goal was to win the popular vote but not the electoral college vote?

emulatorloo

(44,187 posts)
6. Hi I'm asking the OP, ExiledNight. That's his or her quote.
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 02:02 AM
Nov 2016

I accidentally posted to you first, but quickly self-deleted that post. My question is for OP, who wrote:

"1. Hillary played the popular vote versus the electoral college. I would have thought that after Gore's defeat in 2000 that anyone with the last name Clinton or Gore would have figured out that elections are not won through the popular vote, but rather through the electoral college. "



But thanks for the reply!

Exilednight

(9,359 posts)
14. I am not convinced that she does understand how the EC works. In 2008 she lost the Democratic Nom
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 08:32 AM
Nov 2016

when Obama outplayed her on the electoral map. Hillary kept playing for the popular vote, while team Obama played the delegate count.

spin

(17,493 posts)
5. Plus it is very difficult for the party that has had eight years in the Oval Office...
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 02:00 AM
Nov 2016

to win the follow up election.


Since 1950, there have been seven opportunities for a party to hold the presidency for more than two terms: 1952 (D), 1960 (R), 1968 (D), 1976 (R), 1988 (R), 2000 (D) and 2008 (R). As noted, it was solely in 1988 that the incumbent party emerged victorious. But only in two of these seven elections — 1952 and 2008, when Harry Truman and George W. Bush were toxically unpopular incumbents — did the party in power lose by more than 2 percentage points.
http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/238812-is-it-that-hard-for-a-party-to-hold-the-white-house


There were also a significant number of people who felt political dynasties are a bad idea. They had a Slogan, No more Bushes and no more Clintons.

I agree there were many factors at play in this race.

And who knows at this point. The electronic voting machines in swing states might have been hacked and the election stolen.

spin

(17,493 posts)
8. The candidate of a party running for the third term might find it difficult...
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 02:25 AM
Nov 2016

to play the role of a change candidate.

Of course Bernie played that role but he identifies as a Democratic Socialist who caucuses with the Democratic Party in the Senate.

elleng

(131,143 posts)
9. A good candidate would recognize the sense of the time,
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 02:35 AM
Nov 2016

and should construct a campaign and program accordingly. And be sure those working the campaign get it.

Hekate

(90,829 posts)
11. offs. Don't you ever get tired of this meme? SHE DIDN'T LOSE. And every human being ...
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 03:49 AM
Nov 2016

..."has flaws."

And it was indeed rigged -- against Hillary.

Exilednight

(9,359 posts)
15. Who will be inaugurated in January?
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 08:38 AM
Nov 2016

While every candidate has flaws, a decent candidate knows how to overcome those flaws.

Exilednight

(9,359 posts)
21. I don't need to keep telling myself anything. History has already proven me correct.
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 07:33 PM
Nov 2016

There have been tons of presidents from both parties that had serious flaws and managed to win the presidency. They were just better at overcoming those flaws.

Hillary's biggest flaw was not being able to overcome her flaws.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
18. The "decent candidate" always wins? So what does that say about Bernie?
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 01:54 PM
Nov 2016

I've never seen such twisted logic.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
23. So Sanders was not a decent candidate either - never "overcame his flaws" to win....
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 07:42 PM
Nov 2016

Glad you cleared that up. Because it didn't make sense otherwise.

Exilednight

(9,359 posts)
24. He was not a decent enough candidate to overcome the forces that were against him.
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 07:50 PM
Nov 2016

The deck was stacked against Sanders from winning the primary, but the ultimate responsibility of his losing is on him.

He did make some serious strategy flaws when it came to running his campaign. Especially when it came to his southern strategy.

 

davidn3600

(6,342 posts)
13. That's funny....
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 04:29 AM
Nov 2016

The person filling a cabinet looks an awful lot like Donald Trump.

I'll have to get my eyes checked...

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