2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumNoam Chomsky: Progressives who refused to vote for Hillary Clinton made a bad mistake
BRAD REED
25 NOV 2016 AT 13:47 ET
Legendary linguist and activist Noam Chomsky thinks that progressives and left-wingers who didnt want to vote for Hillary Clinton this year have badly miscalculated and will now pay a very dear price.
The Huffington Post notes that in an interview with Al Jazeeras Mehdi Hasan, Chomsky reiterated his position that people on the left should have supported Clintons White House bid, if only as a means to stop Donald Trump from getting elected.
I think they [made] a bad mistake, said Chomsky, who reiterated that its important to keep a greater evil from obtaining power, even if youre not thrilled with the alternative. I didnt like Clinton at all, but her positions are much better than Trumps on every issue I can think of.
Chomsky also attacked the arguments made by philosopher Slavoj Zizek, who argued that Trumps election would at least shake up the system and provide a real rallying point for the left. Zizek makes a terrible point, Chomsky told Hasan. It was the same point that people like him said about Hitler in the early 30s
hell shake up the system in bad ways.
more
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/11/noam-chomsky-progressives-who-refused-to-vote-for-hillary-clinton-made-a-bad-mistake/
doc03
(35,340 posts)MineralMan
(146,317 posts)That point very strongly before the election...
quaker bill
(8,224 posts)he did make the point quite strongly well before the election. I sent links to all my BOB friends. True it did not help enough.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)on Hillary Clinton from the left. Some were quite vicious. They spread like wildfire. Then, when some of those same people realized that the President might be Donald Trump, they provided some sort of weak support for voting for Clinton. That got very little circulation online.
Even after the convention, when Hillary was clearly the winner of the nomination, the attacks continued. Hillary Clinton lost in several states through people skipping the presidential race on their ballot or voting for a third party candidate. If you look at the margins for Trump in several states, that is abundantly clear.
I'm beyond anger on this at this point. Disgust is a more apt description. We are going to pay very, very dearly for what we did to a woman who would have been an excellent President. More dearly than anyone can imagine, I expect.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)Then apparently some either stayed home or wrote in Bugs Bunny. I suppose now they have the president of their dreams.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)I will remind them, however, from time to time, when they decry something Trump has just done. Like Anonymous, I do not forget.
If this is the future of the Democratic Party and its chances of regaining power, then, I'll be relieved when my time here is done.
I'm embarrassed for people who should be the ones who are embarrassed. I hope their privilege carries them through what is coming down the road. For many who never stopped fighting Clinton, though, not enough privilege exists on the planet to compensate for their folly. They will eventual realize what they have done.
quaker bill
(8,224 posts)I do not buy that the "left" had all that much to do with the defeat in the final analysis.
I think Hillary had it in her power to put WI, MI, and PA away. She lost focus on her limits as a candidate and spent far too much time and $ in FL and NC. They even wandered into GA and AZ a bit.
Hillary has been good for 48% of the vote since 2008. I have been saying this since the primaries in 2008. She got +/-48.1%. She needed to focus like a laser on making that a winning margin. Getting out just 100,000 more votes in the right places and she would be worrying about transition right now. She focused on the long drives when she needed to sink the short putts.
BainsBane
(53,034 posts)and they instead enabled it.
LiberalFighter
(50,942 posts)Considering he doesn't live in the United States and doesn't won't suffer any direct consequences of the result.
JI7
(89,250 posts)liquid diamond
(1,917 posts)are worse than trump supporters in my opinion.
VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)ZX86
(1,428 posts)Political parties who refuse to field candidates that can win elections make the bad mistakes. There is no legal obligation for any citizen to vote for our candidates or vote at all. Vote shaming them doesn't earn their support. It alienates them. The, "Hey you fucking moron, vote for me!" is not a winning recipe.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)Sometimes you have to hit rock bottom.
treestar
(82,383 posts)She certainly had a better shot than Bernie did.
ZX86
(1,428 posts)Blaming voters for elections you didn't win is like losing sports teams blaming their losses on the scores the failed to make. It's the job of candidates and parties to win elections.
The issue isn't who didn't vote for you. It's why they didn't vote you.
Also there is no empirical evidence that HRC had a better shot than Bernie. In fact available evidence indicates the opposite.
treestar
(82,383 posts)why do we not take responsibility ?
BzaDem
(11,142 posts)Voters are the one that choose our president -- not candidates, and not parties. No one forced anyone to vote for Trump, or against Clinton. They did so out of their own free will, presumably because they prefer a Trump presidency to a Clinton presidency. The result of the election is on them, quite literally by definition.
NoGoodNamesLeft
(2,056 posts)And without those voters he could never have won. And THAT is exactly why the super delegates and DNC did all they could for Hillary. She was the best candidate. Now Bernie is forever soiled because of those of his supporters who did not support the nominee. There are many people who WILL suffer terribly under Trump. Some minorities are already being targeted. If those "BOBs" think all those people will ever get behind Bernie for president again they are kidding themselves.
ZX86
(1,428 posts)He's just too far out there. But the acceptable standard of behavior like an orange clown, con man, POW hating, pussy grabber who mocks the handicapped? Well that's just pure kind of apple pie Americanism that every citizen is proud to support!
Give me a break. If you're saying an experienced U.S. Senator who earned millions of votes and filled stadiums from coast to coast had no chance against a vulgarian game show host we should just all give up now because it's over.
BzaDem
(11,142 posts)In 2004, Nader's support was 10 times less than it was in 2000, despite the Democratic party running an Iraq War supporter.
Why? Because sometimes, it takes 4 years of watching everything they hold dear be swept away, before one un-blinds themselves from reality.
treestar
(82,383 posts)the lesser of two evils, that is still the thing to do. Why end up with the worse of the two evils?