2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThink Hagel’s bad? Just wait until there’s a Supreme Court opening
The Hagel battle is actually a dry run for the next justice fight -- and it's clear that the GOP will filibuster
BY JONATHAN BERNSTEIN
Compare that Russian meteor hit earlier this week to the one that wiped out the dinosaurs. Got that? Now think about the Chuck Hagel filibuster and what we can expect if a Supreme Court seat opens up sometime soon.
The Hagel filibuster seems to have fired up interest in Senate procedure, but its actually a little difficult to figure out what, if anything, is so unprecedented. The one thing thats clearly new is that its the first time a cabinet nominee has lost a cloture vote. However, its certainly not the first time that 60 votes was required for a cabinet post; its not the first time that a cabinet nomination was delayed by opposition; and if current reports are correct, it wont be the first time a cabinet nomination has been defeated by a filibuster. It certainly isnt the first time a cloture vote has failed on an executive branch pick, or even a high-profile pick.
Some of this is just partisanship. Republicans are making the absurd claim that a 60-vote requirement isnt a filibuster. Democrats are exaggerating how unprecedented this move is.
Still, the political press, and perhaps even Senate Democrats, seem surprised that Republicans really mean what theyve been saying ever since Barack Obama was elected about requiring 60 votes to move anything through the Senate. And if there was a Senate norm against filibustering cabinet nominations, Republicans have no intention of honoring it. And that matters because of the other supposed tradition that will be tested the first time theres a Supreme Court opening: No Court selection has been denied by filibuster.
Now, the first problem with that claim is the case of Abe Fortas in 1968. The Senate took a cloture vote, which failed, and Fortas name was withdrawn. Senators opposing Fortas, however, claimed that it wasnt really a filibuster more or less in exactly the way that Republicans this week denied that the filibuster against Hagel was a real filibuster.
more:
http://www.salon.com/2013/02/16/think_hagels_bad_just_wait_until_theres_a_supreme_court_opening/
NoMoreWarNow
(1,259 posts)something has to break with this system
Demeter
(85,373 posts)and there's not a repairman in sight, since Hairy Reed broke, once again.
NoMoreWarNow
(1,259 posts)Demeter
(85,373 posts)then we will see change...but no hope, unless it's the 80% who make the changes.
eilen
(4,950 posts)I had a bit of schaden freude watching them tear apart their own, so much I want to laugh at them, particularly their young showboaters. They will turn on themselves to get a headline.
Let Obama choose a Democrat. One that knows how to fight dirty in politics and knows where the bodies are buried and one that doesn't think that republicans are their friends. I almost felt sorry for Hagel. Betrayal has a neutering effect; he hardly knew what hit him. I think all mainstream conservatives should look at that and see what their party is turning into. It will be them next.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)so happily served to others. He famously attacked other nominees, Democrats of course, including his anti gay diatribe to the press about Hormel in which he said being gay is an inhibiting factor to serving one's country. I do not support homophobes, nor anti choice radicals, nor Republicans. Hagel of course voted for the Iraq War, while his supporters claim he opposed it. Like a few other Republicans, after 5 horrible years he stopped expecting WMD and started whining about the war he gleefully helped to start for no good reason.
I've never supported any Republican and Chuck is nothing but a Republican.
Proud Liberal Dem
(24,414 posts)It's not about Hagel, it's about Obama IMHO.
disndat
(1,887 posts)on Hagel's anti-Iraq war position.
eilen
(4,950 posts)and I loved every minute of it.
Zambero
(8,964 posts)It takes a certain amount of courage to own up in public to one's past mistakes in judgment. In today's GOP, the pressure to stay in line and not break ranks is intense, and despite his political designation, Hagel should be commended for demanding that his colleagues reverse course in Iraq, and for not resorting to the usual face-saving maneuvers so common in partisan politics.
forestpath
(3,102 posts)pasto76
(1,589 posts)Hagel is one of the few republicans -anywhere- to criticize the iraq war and president bush.
Hagel is a combat veteran. Hagel received two purple hearts while squad leader and non commissioned officer during vietnam.
Hagel is NOT a career politician.
these are all the real sticking points with the right. They dont want anybody with sense in the pentagon. That would mess up the whole money works.
Mira
(22,380 posts)on their problems and I too share the Schadenfreude in watching them eat their own and realize the danger they all are in.
Obama has inserted a steel rod into his spine when it comes to dealing with those who will not work with him, or at least he is slowly pushing it in.
I am not unhappy that he has these trial runs in standing up for his beliefs and candidates before the time comes to apply the learning in a SCOTUS candidate.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)base on the Israel issue.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)If Obama put up Chuck Schumer or Russ Feingold for Sec. of State instead of John Kerry, they'd still claim he hated Israel without any shame - since they have no shame.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)kiss his ring and promise Israel some F-35's and keep funding for Iron Dome to get Dem Senate support. They'd love Schumer as SecDef. Feingold, not so much.
Zambero
(8,964 posts)This is at least partly about Tea Party "solidarity", and never cooperating with Democrats on anything. If you dare break ranks with us you will be ostracized, rejected, your integrity will be impugned, and your career will effectively be over. Regardless of whether you are on the right side of history or not. The party of NO should not be permitted to pull this off.
DhhD
(4,695 posts)GOP extremely busy making stupid outbursts and then the POTUS could use Executive Order to seat one of the 5 each day (or on a set deadline) on the SCOTUS until Congress approves one of the nominees. Hearing the cases and making a decision, are two different matters. Use the Constitution and Executive Order together. Give the GOP the hard time.
DhhD
(4,695 posts)dbackjon
(6,578 posts)sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)how the national legislature works. We have a system comprised of 535 members that concedes a de facto veto of any legislative action that requires senate confirmation or bicameral consent for the passage of laws to 41 senators. If that is a representative government, I'm curious just who it represents.
OmahaBlueDog
(10,000 posts)(or Thomas, Roberts, or Alito -- who are far less likely)
The replacement of Breyer or Bader-Ginsburg, while troublesome, will be looked largely upon as leaving them no worse than they are now.
Not so with Kennedy, and especially not so with Scalia. They will pull out all of the stops. Filibuster and impeachment of the President will be high among them. Should he get one or both of those replaced, the GOP will look to make a campaign issue of it. Either proposing SCOTUS term limits (which I'd actually support), threatening to stack the court (Hey, FDR did), or just threatening that once they got the WH and both houses of congress, they'll start summarily impeaching "activist judges."
The President should stay the course. Keep nominating female justices. Diane Wood is my personal favorite, although she is now on the wrong side of 60. I like her for two reasons. 1) Bill Clinton nominee. 2) NOT an Ivy Leaguer.
Don't nominate Hillary. The Republicans want that. They've hinted she's an acceptable nominee because they want to hold a show trial and deny her the court and the Presidency in one shot.
Ultimately (and it will bite us in the ass someday) we have to do the right thing and end the FIlibuster once and for all.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)That would be a good fight. I don't think it should necessarily be a woman, I think he should take a strong look at minorities that are not currently on the court. Obviously a LBGT would be a huge deal whether it be a man or a woman. I agree it shouldn't be a Ivy Leaguer, they need to find someone outside that "beltway" of schools.
OmahaBlueDog
(10,000 posts)I mention nominating a woman again for two reasons. 1) A court with 4-5 female justices will be more reflective of the population as a whole and 2) frankly, it makes it harder for a party dominated by white males to oppose.
I'd love to see someone who has been a long-time public defender, or somene who has been heavily involved in indigent legal aid.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)An African-American woman with that kind of experience shouldn't be hard to find. It's going to take quite a long time to change the makeup of the court since they are lifetime appointments.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)The only way he'll be replaced with Obama in charge is if he dies (and, cue the GOP conspiracy theories about Obama plotting his death...).
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)Cosmocat
(14,566 posts)There is another level of their jackassedness, and this would send them to it.
They believe they are entitled to anything they think they are entitled to, and they have come to believe they have the right to pack the court however they see fit. Their default manner of controlling the country is the SC, and combined with their deranged hatred of all things BHO, if Scalia or Kennedy's slots opened up, there is no end to what they will do to try to destroy whoever is nominated. He could reanimate Reagen himself, and they would eviscerate him.
Drunken Irishman
(34,857 posts)It's going to be a mess.
trueblue2007
(17,228 posts)marlakay
(11,474 posts)ends because after 8 years other side has a greater chance.