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Tx4obama

(36,974 posts)
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 03:27 PM Apr 2013

Attorney General Holder: ‘We will not sit by’ while Republicans rig the Electoral College


AG Holder: ‘We Will Not Sit By’ While Republicans Rig The Electoral College

Attorney General Eric Holder has a solid record on voting rights, and he’s criticized Republican state lawmaker’s efforts to restrict the franchise in the past — at one point comparing voter ID laws to an unconstitutional poll tax. At a speech in New York yesterday, Holder added a new line to his previous attacks on voter suppression, suggesting that DOJ will respond with legal action if any Republican state lawmakers move forward with their proposals to rig the Electoral College:

Long lines are unnecessary. Shortened voting periods are unwise and inconsistent with the historic ideal of expanded participation in the process. Recent proposed changes in how electoral votes are apportioned in specific states are blatantly partisan, unfair, divisive, and not worthy of our nation. Let me be clear again: we will not sit by and allow the slow unraveling of an electoral system that so many sacrificed so much to construct.

There are two versions of the GOP’s election rigging plans, both of which Republicans want to enact exclusively in blue states. One version would allocate electoral votes in several targeted blue states by Congressional district, rather than to the winner of the state as a whole. The other version, which is currently being pushed by Pennsylvania Senate Majority Leader Dominic Pileggi (R), would allocate electoral votes proportionally — so that Mitt Romney would have won a significant chunk of Pennsylvania’s electoral voters even though President Obama carried the state. As with the congressional districts plan, Pileggi’s election-rigging plan would give away electoral votes to Republicans in his blue state, while still keeping all red state electors in GOP hands: ...

-snip-

Full article here: http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/04/05/1828661/ag-holder-we-will-not-sit-by-while-republicans-rig-the-electoral-college/


64 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Attorney General Holder: ‘We will not sit by’ while Republicans rig the Electoral College (Original Post) Tx4obama Apr 2013 OP
That's a good start, Mr. Holder. Now why don't you get off your butt and do something about AndyA Apr 2013 #1
He could also get off his butt and NYtoBush-Drop Dead Apr 2013 #14
Write them a "harsh" letter. russspeakeasy Apr 2013 #31
It Reminds Me of Congress in 2006 Wolf Frankula Apr 2013 #32
Or flap his gums on TV for a good sound bite for 5 O'clock news Left Coast2020 Apr 2013 #38
Now that you've worn yourself out by making that bold statement go back to sleep. Katashi_itto Apr 2013 #50
I feel the same. All talk and no walk. firenewt Apr 2013 #51
The Ohio GOPs got cold feet and backpedaled on this one Kolesar Apr 2013 #2
And a few Republicans have publicly commented this type of gerry-mandering is undesirable, HOWEVER summerschild Apr 2013 #23
You have sat idly by through the financial crises pennylane100 Apr 2013 #3
There's a Justice Department in this country? The United States? Really? savannah43 Apr 2013 #9
Funny, but sadly true. pennylane100 Apr 2013 #10
easy out for repubs on this: declare themselves "too big" to prosecute lol. nt msongs Apr 2013 #4
how about we take their idea, and run with it? maindawg Apr 2013 #5
Already happening. Flying Squirrel Apr 2013 #7
The National Popular Vote Bill - 49% of the way there mvymvy Apr 2013 #8
49% of the way there goldent Apr 2013 #21
A move towards real democracy TJrules Apr 2013 #54
If the popular vote instead of the Electoral College had decided presidential elections, Art_from_Ark Apr 2013 #62
Shit, I thought he was gone fishing. russspeakeasy Apr 2013 #6
Good one, thanks for posting. Going to the link. freshwest Apr 2013 #11
Okay, which one of you jokers told Holder there's a lot of pot smoking in the Electoral College? nt winter is coming Apr 2013 #12
yes we will Doctor_J Apr 2013 #13
He'll write some 'nasty' letters, and hope for reply. End of story! dmosh42 Apr 2013 #15
Pennsylvania is so Alabama bucolic_frolic Apr 2013 #16
These founding Fathers created John2 Apr 2013 #17
Don't stop there Mr. A.G. go ahead and look @ Ohio 2004 and watch the rats scatter Botany Apr 2013 #18
If Holder can call it publicly "rigging" why can't he do more than just talk? Sunlei Apr 2013 #19
Action not words.... on point Apr 2013 #20
all talk no action The Wizard Apr 2013 #22
What are his options? drm604 Apr 2013 #24
He's right, he won't be on his butt. Heywood J Apr 2013 #25
this. navarth Apr 2013 #52
Well, since all DoJ has been doing is "sitting by" truebluegreen Apr 2013 #26
Oh yeah.... zentrum Apr 2013 #27
Alright, thank you Mr. Holder, you can go back to sleep now . . . NBachers Apr 2013 #28
He just noticed? WTF. nt valerief Apr 2013 #29
Good... And don't let Wall Street rig the economy any more either... midnight Apr 2013 #30
Hey Eric.. pangaia Apr 2013 #33
Well, that's the best news I've heard all week. rocktivity Apr 2013 #34
As we are all aware, the Atty General's word is something we can bank on ... Jack Rabbit Apr 2013 #35
Unfortunately, I don't believe there is anything creeksneakers2 Apr 2013 #36
No legislature can appoint presidential electors after Election Day mvymvy Apr 2013 #46
Congress can pick the day the electors are chosen creeksneakers2 Apr 2013 #56
They won't sit. They'll lie down, roll over, and play dead. forestpath Apr 2013 #37
No, you won't sit by... awoke_in_2003 Apr 2013 #39
So far burrowowl Apr 2013 #40
Holder: big words, little action. blkmusclmachine Apr 2013 #41
MICHIGAN! nt Snotcicles Apr 2013 #42
Yup! Bozita Apr 2013 #47
Yeah! Yeah! KansDem Apr 2013 #43
Prove it Mr. Holder! Prove you will do something. Maineman Apr 2013 #44
A day (or several years in this case) late and dollar short. geckosfeet Apr 2013 #45
Thank you. I have sent this along. oldandhappy Apr 2013 #48
Everyone write a letter. oldandhappy Apr 2013 #49
At least he's finally talking tough FreeBC Apr 2013 #53
Read this to my cats. Their reaction: Brigid Apr 2013 #55
Prosecute them, my dear Watson Rosa Luxemburg Apr 2013 #57
You have thusfar tavalon Apr 2013 #58
Well, get on with it, man. And TY for noticing, Mr. Holder. Hekate Apr 2013 #59
Holder won't do a thing. LoisB Apr 2013 #60
I'm pretty sure "sit by" is exactly what he'll do. Billy Pilgrim Apr 2013 #61
Well Eric, we're waiting... Blue Idaho Apr 2013 #63
Kabuki theatre at its finest Harmony Blue Apr 2013 #64

AndyA

(16,993 posts)
1. That's a good start, Mr. Holder. Now why don't you get off your butt and do something about
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 03:35 PM
Apr 2013

the criminals on Wall Street that tanked our economy, causing millions to lose their jobs, savings, homes, etc.?

If you have any questions, there's a very smart Senator named Elizabeth Warren who would be happy to fill you in on the crimes committed.

NYtoBush-Drop Dead

(490 posts)
14. He could also get off his butt and
Sat Apr 6, 2013, 12:26 AM
Apr 2013

go after the BUSHCO criminals who lied us into war and tanked what was left of the economy that they hadn't given away to Halliburton et al.... round them up, send them to The Hague for war crimes.

Wolf Frankula

(3,601 posts)
32. It Reminds Me of Congress in 2006
Sat Apr 6, 2013, 06:44 PM
Apr 2013

And the "red hot letter of protest" to be sent to the monkey Bush. Get off your ass, Eric, and do something to stop the rigging of the election. Else, go back to being a mouthpiece for criminals.

Wolf

Left Coast2020

(2,397 posts)
38. Or flap his gums on TV for a good sound bite for 5 O'clock news
Sat Apr 6, 2013, 11:28 PM
Apr 2013

I had high hopes for you Mr Holder from day one. Since then you have been a huge disappointment.

summerschild

(725 posts)
23. And a few Republicans have publicly commented this type of gerry-mandering is undesirable, HOWEVER
Sat Apr 6, 2013, 12:54 PM
Apr 2013

I expect that Ohio and other Republican controlled states (with ALEC's help) will quietly continue such plans and then all jump in too late and in too many locations for the Feds to respond.

I hope I'm wrong, but the GOP is getting desperate - and they will do anything to win - except CHANGE.

pennylane100

(3,425 posts)
3. You have sat idly by through the financial crises
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 05:09 PM
Apr 2013

and so many other crimes committed by corporate America and corrupt politicians who serve them, so you will forgive us if we are not able to generate much enthusiasm for the new improved Justice Department.

 

maindawg

(1,151 posts)
5. how about we take their idea, and run with it?
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 05:32 PM
Apr 2013

eliminate the electoral college. Just go with the popular vote.

mvymvy

(309 posts)
8. The National Popular Vote Bill - 49% of the way there
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 05:43 PM
Apr 2013

Obvious partisan machinations like these should add support for the National Popular Vote movement. If the party in control in each state is tempted every 2, 4, or 10 years (post-census) to consider rewriting election laws and redistrict with an eye to the likely politically beneficial effects for their party in the next presidential election, then the National Popular Vote system, in which all voters across the country are guaranteed to be politically relevant and treated equally, is needed now more than ever.

To elimate the Electoral College would need a constitutional amendment, and could be stopped by states with as little as 3% of the U.S. population.

Instead, The National Popular Vote bill would guarantee the Presidency to the candidate who receives the most popular votes in all 50 states (and DC), by state laws.

Every vote, everywhere, would be politically relevant and equal in presidential elections. No more distorting and divisive red and blue state maps. There would no longer be a handful of 'battleground' states where voters and policies are more important than those of the voters in 80% of the states that now are just 'spectators' and ignored after the conventions.

When the bill is enacted by states with a majority of the electoral votes– enough electoral votes to elect a President (270 of 538), all the electoral votes from the enacting states would be awarded to the presidential candidate who receives the most popular votes in all 50 states and DC.

With National Popular Vote, the United States would still be a republic, in which citizens continue to elect the President by a majority of Electoral College votes by states, to represent us and conduct the business of government in the periods between elections.

The presidential election system that we have today was not designed, anticipated, or favored by the Founding Fathers but, instead, is the product of decades of evolutionary change precipitated by the emergence of political parties and enactment by 48 states of winner-take-all laws, not mentioned, much less endorsed, in the Constitution.

The bill uses the power given to each state by the Founding Fathers in the Constitution to change how they award their electoral votes for President. Historically, virtually all of the major changes in the method of electing the President, including ending the requirement that only men who owned substantial property could vote and 48 current state-by-state winner-take-all laws, have come about by state legislative action.

In Gallup polls since 1944, only about 20% of the public has supported the current system of awarding all of a state's electoral votes to the presidential candidate who receives the most votes in each separate state (with about 70% opposed and about 10% undecided). Support for a national popular vote is strong among Republicans, Democrats, and Independent voters, as well as every demographic group in virtually every state surveyed in recent polls in recent closely divided Battleground states: CO – 68%, FL – 78%, IA 75%, MI – 73%, MO – 70%, NH – 69%, NV – 72%, NM– 76%, NC – 74%, OH – 70%, PA – 78%, VA – 74%, and WI – 71%; in Small states (3 to 5 electoral votes): AK – 70%, DC – 76%, DE – 75%, ID – 77%, ME – 77%, MT – 72%, NE 74%, NH – 69%, NV – 72%, NM – 76%, OK – 81%, RI – 74%, SD – 71%, UT – 70%, VT – 75%, WV – 81%, and WY – 69%; in Southern and Border states: AR – 80%, KY- 80%, MS – 77%, MO – 70%, NC – 74%, OK – 81%, SC – 71%, TN – 83%, VA – 74%, and WV – 81%; and in other states polled: AZ – 67%, CA – 70%, CT – 74%, MA – 73%, MN – 75%, NY – 79%, OR – 76%, and WA – 77%. Americans believe that the candidate who receives the most votes should win.

The bill has passed 31 state legislative chambers in 21 states with 243 electoral votes. The bill has been enacted by 9 jurisdictions with 132 electoral votes - 49% of the 270 necessary to go into effect.

NationalPopularVote
Follow National Popular Vote on Facebook via NationalPopularVoteInc

goldent

(1,582 posts)
21. 49% of the way there
Sat Apr 6, 2013, 12:27 PM
Apr 2013

The "49%" figure says it all - I think the remaining 51% is going to be a bit more difficult.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
62. If the popular vote instead of the Electoral College had decided presidential elections,
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 10:18 PM
Apr 2013

then Samuel Tilden, rather than former Union general Rutherford B. Hayes, would have been elected President in 1876. I often wonder whether the South would have been less antagonistic, both towards the North and towards freed slaves, if Tilden, a Democrat, had been able to become President.

Then there was the election of 1888, in which Grover Cleveland won the popular vote but lost the electoral vote to Benjamin Harrison. Of course, Cleveland came back 4 years late to defeat Harrison.

And then, there was the election of 2000, in which Al Gore was cheated out of the White House, even though he had won the popular vote by a margin of 530,000. For sure the US would have been better off with Gore in the White House, than with the man who ultimately ended up there.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
11. Good one, thanks for posting. Going to the link.
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:00 PM
Apr 2013

Many states would be RED instead of BLUE now and not getting Medicaid exchanges and other Obama reforms enacted if this was in place here. It is an ALEC proposal to disenfranchize the MAJORITY of citizens, as they know that they live in urban areas. We pay taxes for the WHOLE, our voices must be heard.

bucolic_frolic

(43,196 posts)
16. Pennsylvania is so Alabama
Sat Apr 6, 2013, 09:45 AM
Apr 2013

The Founding Fathers feared popular opinion, rule by the masses. They
filtered public opinion with the Electoral College, and with the original
system of selecting Senators in each state legislature. Wouldn't we have
a tilted Senate if that system still existed?

At the same time, The Federalist Papers show an abhorrence of "factions"
or parties, sort of a fear of dominant factions. Freedom was more important,
and that included respect for minority opinions.

I don't pretend to know the Founders' intent, we'll leave that to Antonin.

I do know that cherry-picking votes, political strategies, techniques, and
electoral college votes to win elections is at gut level UNFAIR. Since Maine
and Madison Wisconsin already split their electoral college votes, it may be
hard to prevent other states from establishing their own rules, at least
on a Constitutional basis.

"One man one vote" almost seems inconsistent with the Electoral College.

 

John2

(2,730 posts)
17. These founding Fathers created
Sat Apr 6, 2013, 10:19 AM
Apr 2013

a Constitution that represented them and their ERA. Many of them were slave holders and obviously racists. They were subjects of the English monarchy and needed something to justify their rebellion. Why would their intent matter to someone today?

That original Constitution does not exist today anyway. I think Scalia and people that use these men as the Gospel should be informed about it. I don't think any Constitution is worth anything, unless the people it governs consent to it. People have the right to rebel against tyranny. There has been two rebellions in this country's history. One was successful and the other was not. In each occasion principles were established in the Constitution after a War. It is still an ongoing process to protect everybody's rights in this country from people who want to oppress certain groups. And that oppression always seems to be instigated on the right. When will they get it through their heads that they are not superior to any other Americans. If anybody thinks they have a racial preference or entitlement, then it seems to be men like Scalia.

Botany

(70,521 posts)
18. Don't stop there Mr. A.G. go ahead and look @ Ohio 2004 and watch the rats scatter
Sat Apr 6, 2013, 10:33 AM
Apr 2013

but I am not holding my breath

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
19. If Holder can call it publicly "rigging" why can't he do more than just talk?
Sat Apr 6, 2013, 10:38 AM
Apr 2013

We got to suffer through years of redistricts, re-mappping, people are elected by gaming the system, states like AZ. get away with not counting 600,000 votes... and it's still only TALK, about it.

Holder needs to get off the talk and bring MANY Federal charges and lets sort this out in court!

on point

(2,506 posts)
20. Action not words....
Sat Apr 6, 2013, 12:09 PM
Apr 2013

And don't forget the banksters, war crimes and torture crew, all the other criminals you have ignored

The Wizard

(12,545 posts)
22. all talk no action
Sat Apr 6, 2013, 12:30 PM
Apr 2013

Now if they opened a legal marijuana dispensary he might take action. Something as trivial as rigged elections is off the table.

zentrum

(9,865 posts)
27. Oh yeah....
Sat Apr 6, 2013, 05:00 PM
Apr 2013

...This current crop of democrats, except for Warren, have sat through 4 elections and done nothing about republican theft of our votes....none of them seem to have the ability to stand up straight.

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
33. Hey Eric..
Sat Apr 6, 2013, 06:49 PM
Apr 2013

What do you mean...&quot You) Will Not Sit By’ While Republicans Rig The Electoral College?"
Of course you will.

Put up or shut up.

Jack Rabbit

(45,984 posts)
35. As we are all aware, the Atty General's word is something we can bank on ...
Sat Apr 6, 2013, 08:06 PM
Apr 2013

... in today's financial markets.

creeksneakers2

(7,473 posts)
36. Unfortunately, I don't believe there is anything
Sat Apr 6, 2013, 11:08 PM
Apr 2013

Holder can do. Bush V. Gore established that state legislatures have absolute power to choose any slate of electors they want. They can even give the electors to a losing candidate, as the Florida GOP legislature theatened to do in 2000.

"Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors..."
Article II

mvymvy

(309 posts)
46. No legislature can appoint presidential electors after Election Day
Sun Apr 7, 2013, 12:57 PM
Apr 2013

Any attempt to appoint presidential electors after the people vote in November would be unconstitutional on its face (and subject to summary judgment) because (1) the Constitution gives Congress the power to establish the day for appointing presidential electors, and (2) existing federal law requires that presidential electors be appointed on a single specific day in each four-year election cycle (namely, the Tuesday after the first Monday in November). Therefore, no state may appoint presidential electors after the results of an election become known (under either the current state-by-state winner-take-all system or the National Popular Vote compact).

creeksneakers2

(7,473 posts)
56. Congress can pick the day the electors are chosen
Sun Apr 7, 2013, 10:38 PM
Apr 2013

It can't decide who is chosen or how.

Bush V Gore:

"This is the source for the statement in McPherson v. Blacker, 146 U. S. 1, 35 (1892), that the State legislature's power to select the manner for appointing electors is plenary; it may, if it so chooses, select the electors itself, which indeed was the manner used by State legislatures in several States for many years after the Framing of our Constitution. Id., at 28-33.....The State, of course, after granting the franchise in the special context of Article II, can take back the power to appoint electors. See id., at 35 ("[T]here is no doubt of the right of the legislature to resume the power at any time, for it can neither be taken away nor abdicated&quot (quoting S. Rep. No. 395, 43d Cong., 1st Sess.)."

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=000&invol=00-949

"Plenary means characterized by being full and complete in every respect.... Plenary authority refers to the complete power of a governing body."

http://definitions.uslegal.com/p/plenary/

 

awoke_in_2003

(34,582 posts)
39. No, you won't sit by...
Sun Apr 7, 2013, 02:51 AM
Apr 2013

you will continue to go after pot growers and dispensaries- easy targets. Fuck you, Holder.

burrowowl

(17,641 posts)
40. So far
Sun Apr 7, 2013, 02:55 AM
Apr 2013

I think Holder and the Obama Administration as Sister Teresa our Religion teacher used to say are: "Wishy washy spineless jellyfish!"

oldandhappy

(6,719 posts)
49. Everyone write a letter.
Sun Apr 7, 2013, 01:35 PM
Apr 2013

Easy to do. Your address of choice (Holder or either party in Pennsylvania) is available on the internet. Thanks.

 

FreeBC

(403 posts)
53. At least he's finally talking tough
Sun Apr 7, 2013, 04:06 PM
Apr 2013

Not that I think he will follow it with actions or anything, but it's a start.

Harmony Blue

(3,978 posts)
64. Kabuki theatre at its finest
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 11:32 PM
Apr 2013

Look at how aggressively he tackled marijuan dispensiaries compared to electoral college rigging. This guy is simply trying to save face for a legacy he will be infamous for.

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