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wyldwolf

(43,867 posts)
Sun Oct 27, 2013, 09:55 AM Oct 2013

Would you say the following statement is true?

When presented with the statement, "according to decades of polling, more Americans are conservative than liberal."

I replied, "What the polling for decades indicates is people aren't quite in agreement on what 'conservative' and 'liberal' mean. When asked to self-identify, Americans are more likely to identify as 'conservative.' On individual issues, and in 5 of the last 8 presidential elections, Americans have become decidedly more liberal. From economic policies (those identifying as economic conservatives have dropped) to social hot button issues like gay marriage, liberal positions are now most favored.

The conservative movement has lost the culture wars, is losing the demographics war and, if it weren't for gerrymandering, would be losing the congressional war."

Your thoughts?

26 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Would you say the following statement is true? (Original Post) wyldwolf Oct 2013 OP
I Think You Are Right, Sir The Magistrate Oct 2013 #1
I would say, Liberals are more conservative and pro-military, and Conservatives orpupilofnature57 Oct 2013 #2
The United States is a liberal democracy (or a thassolocratic oligarchic republic, if you prefer). Laelth Oct 2013 #3
Neoliberals maybe . orpupilofnature57 Oct 2013 #8
There's nothing neo-liberal about the Marshall Plan. Laelth Oct 2013 #18
I'll also add that our liberalism explains our wealth. Laelth Oct 2013 #19
Nice Read and add-on,,,,But Thomas Jefferson, Adam Smith, orpupilofnature57 Oct 2013 #23
I'll grant you that Clinton was not a liberal. Laelth Oct 2013 #24
Agreed, Liberals are the Karma Police of Democracy . orpupilofnature57 Oct 2013 #25
The power of branding: "painting white hats on our guys and black hats on the enemy"... JHB Oct 2013 #4
+1000 !!!! orpupilofnature57 Oct 2013 #5
Excellent post. n/t Laelth Oct 2013 #6
So true. For decades I've been saying that Dems need to hire... polichick Oct 2013 #16
Falls right in line with the Obamacare debate... Wounded Bear Oct 2013 #7
" Cognitive dissonance " is just what it is . orpupilofnature57 Oct 2013 #9
Utter horseshit, no content whatsoever. bemildred Oct 2013 #10
curious as to why you feel that way wyldwolf Oct 2013 #11
What part do you feel is accurate or meaningful? nt bemildred Oct 2013 #12
sorry, shouldn't have asked. :) wyldwolf Oct 2013 #13
It is nothing. bemildred Oct 2013 #14
I'm sure more Amerians identfy with being conservative than identify with being liberal Douglas Carpenter Oct 2013 #15
That you answered the question well and gave an excellent explanation of your answer.... Rowdyboy Oct 2013 #17
Its the media's way of trying to persuade folks in the middle to think they are JoePhilly Oct 2013 #20
I think the word and idea of "conservative" sounds laid back and comfortable to people. CANDO Oct 2013 #21
Kick. n/t Laelth Oct 2013 #22
I've asked Republicans what conservative policies have been successful - they were all stumped!! JEFF9K Oct 2013 #26

The Magistrate

(95,248 posts)
1. I Think You Are Right, Sir
Sun Oct 27, 2013, 10:16 AM
Oct 2013

People have been taught to disdain the label 'liberal', and so are less likely to own up to being liberal in their views, even though quite often their views, when expressed on a case by case basis, add up to consistent support for liberal positions and policies.

 

orpupilofnature57

(15,472 posts)
2. I would say, Liberals are more conservative and pro-military, and Conservatives
Sun Oct 27, 2013, 10:18 AM
Oct 2013

still don't care about culture wars, their esoteric xenophobes, who are only concerned with 1% of the culture they aspire to become. Look at the way Mitt was trying to win us over , while letting the 1% know he was their boy . They don't need to care what we think, that was sealed by SCOTUS when they sold our elections .

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
3. The United States is a liberal democracy (or a thassolocratic oligarchic republic, if you prefer).
Sun Oct 27, 2013, 10:21 AM
Oct 2013

Either way, we're principally liberal.

Here's Cenk Uygur on the subject:

The problem is the Washington bubble. Inside the Washington bubble, the Republicans are always right, the Democrats are always cowed. Every issue is framed from the conservative perspective and liberals are some fringe group outside of the "mainstream of America." Wake up press, mainstream Americans are about tell you for the second election in a row that they are definitely not conservative.

You see, every member of the traditional press that just read that last sentence will rebel. "Come on, how can you say the country is not conservative? That's outrageous." Watch, I'll outrage you even more - the United States of America is a liberal country.

Compared to some Western European countries, we could be a little more liberal. But compared to the rest of the world, it's not even close. We are one of the bastions of liberalism. In fact, the United States has almost always led the world in being progressive. We created the United Nations, we rebuilt our enemies through the Marshall Plan, we pushed for human rights throughout the world, we established the idea of freedom of speech and of the press, and the list goes on and on. We are a liberal country and proud.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/23/123459/05/937/639783


He's right.

-Laelth

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
18. There's nothing neo-liberal about the Marshall Plan.
Tue Oct 29, 2013, 08:58 AM
Oct 2013

Nor about any of the other evidence Uygur uses to support his argument. Your single link is weak sauce.

The United States is a global bastion of liberalism.



-Laelth

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
19. I'll also add that our liberalism explains our wealth.
Tue Oct 29, 2013, 09:03 AM
Oct 2013

The United States remains the wealthiest nation on Earth (despite the fact that our wealth is distributed poorly), and it's our liberalism that has created our wealth.

Liberalism, classic and modern, believes that a properly functioning “freer” society is a more powerful society, all other things being equal. This was, explicitly, Adam Smith’s argument. Build a strong peacetime economy, and in wartime you will crush despotic nations into the dirt.

http://www.ianwelsh.net/the-logic-of-the-surveillance-state/


American liberalism has made us wealthy and powerful.

-Laelth
 

orpupilofnature57

(15,472 posts)
23. Nice Read and add-on,,,,But Thomas Jefferson, Adam Smith,
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 06:23 AM
Oct 2013

Ben Franklin and Ted Kennedy were Liberals, Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, and Barack Obama are Neo-Liberals because of the way they've governed our country in reference to the rest of the world . And I'll have a sip of that Sauce your drinking if you think Liberalism explains our wealth, exploitation and corruption are the elements LIBERALS are SUPPOSED to keep in check and not enable, Hence the difference between the two, one feigns the other .

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
24. I'll grant you that Clinton was not a liberal.
Wed Oct 30, 2013, 06:54 AM
Oct 2013

I sincerely hoped that Obama was a closet liberal, but if he is, he's still mostly in the closet. That said, we had enough liberalism left over from FDR and LBJ to allow us to survive 30+ years of Reaganism, but, at this stage, income inequality in the United States is at about the same level it was in 1928 (or 1918, depending upon the study cited and the metric used). We have been abandoning liberalism and marching back toward the unrestrained capitalism of the Gilded Age.

Nevertheless, I maintain, as did Adam Smith, that free and open liberal capitalism is what made us so wealthy compared to other nations. Liberal laws saw to it that the benefits of capitalism were distributed more fairly across all segments of society.

-Laelth

JHB

(37,161 posts)
4. The power of branding: "painting white hats on our guys and black hats on the enemy"...
Sun Oct 27, 2013, 10:42 AM
Oct 2013

...to paraphrase someone in the Reagan administration (in the context of spinning the Nicaraguan Contras as "freedom fighters" and "the moral equivalent of out founding fathers&quot .

For the last two generations conservative activists have worked to stick halos over their own heads and stick horns on liberals'. Starting with William F. Buckley and those around him with books and magazines, through the 70s when Heritage and other spin tanks were founded, through the 90s with Gingrich and Limbaugh weaponizing vitriol against liberals, they've consistently painted themselves as good and reasonable and sensible while channeling peoples anger and resentment onto liberals.

This doesn't mean that they were always wrong about everything or that liberals were always right about everything. What it means is that they were consistent in their messaging and marketing -- they made sure that whenever people were angry or frustrated or resentful that the blame could be laid at the feet of liberals. And the media stopped questioning them after campaigns against "liberal media bias" left the major media worried about appearing partisan.

Let us not forget that the driving nodes of these campaigns have been funded by right-wing billionaires and business interests, allowing a long-term strategy that has avoided the major fragmentation of sub-groups spinning off into their own narrow interests. (until now, maybe.)

 

orpupilofnature57

(15,472 posts)
5. +1000 !!!!
Sun Oct 27, 2013, 11:22 AM
Oct 2013

Your Right !! or I mean Correct !! In the end it's ambiguous characterizations to justify our ends .

polichick

(37,152 posts)
16. So true. For decades I've been saying that Dems need to hire...
Tue Oct 29, 2013, 08:09 AM
Oct 2013

some first-rate branding people from Madison Ave.

And they would - if they really wanted to change this story. But the way it is seems to work for an elite few.

Wounded Bear

(58,673 posts)
7. Falls right in line with the Obamacare debate...
Sun Oct 27, 2013, 11:31 AM
Oct 2013

People "hated" the bill while it was being debated.....but they "loved" most of the major parts of the bill.

Cognitive dissonance at work, fueled and funded by the RW echo chamber.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
10. Utter horseshit, no content whatsoever.
Sun Oct 27, 2013, 12:13 PM
Oct 2013

Wish presented as fact, a complex reality reduced to partisan drivel.

Douglas Carpenter

(20,226 posts)
15. I'm sure more Amerians identfy with being conservative than identify with being liberal
Tue Oct 29, 2013, 07:55 AM
Oct 2013

whether more Americans actually are conservative than liberal is hard to say. There certainly are more rabid rightwingers ranting away in your typical neighborhood bar or barber shop than there are rabid leftwingers ranting away in your typical neighborhood bar or barber shop. I think rightwingers are much more likely to feel that everybody agrees with them and are thus entitled to rant away in public. In the big picture I think the conservative movement is in a state of decline.

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
20. Its the media's way of trying to persuade folks in the middle to think they are
Tue Oct 29, 2013, 09:29 AM
Oct 2013

conservative.

When people are "in the middle", one way to manipulate them is to get them to follow the crowd. Get them to think they are part of some larger social group.

So when the media says "most Americans are conservative" they are creating a crowd that the folks in the middle can join. And if you can get them to self identify with that label, you have a better shot at getting them to act the way you want them to.

Later, if they find themselves conflicted, they simply have to figure out what "conservatives" are doing.

Its a persuasion technique.

 

CANDO

(2,068 posts)
21. I think the word and idea of "conservative" sounds laid back and comfortable to people.
Tue Oct 29, 2013, 10:00 AM
Oct 2013

My wife once described herself as such but has voted Democratic right along with me since we married 16 years ago. It is what it is...I think to most people "Liberal" seems and sounds a little risque or flamboyant. Just my take on it. Of course we who know the difference and political consequence of which term used to describe one's self would obviously choose the correct response instead of the what feels or sounds comfortable.

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