Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Indyfan53

(473 posts)
Tue Mar 11, 2014, 09:22 AM Mar 2014

Texas Debt over $340 billion!

Last edited Tue Mar 11, 2014, 10:28 AM - Edit history (1)

Moody's, the credit rating agency that helped caused the recession by giving high ratings to junk bonds, had the nerve to downgrade Illinois' credit score, and most recently Chicago's, as well. Have they not looked at the books of red states? Look at Texas

Texas has accumulated over $340 billion in debt, surpassing states like Illinois and Ohio.

http://watchdog.org/124193/tell-em-aint-got-texas-debt-hits-341-billion/

Moody's is clearly playing favorites! Screw them!

6 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Texas Debt over $340 billion! (Original Post) Indyfan53 Mar 2014 OP
You are comparing a state to a city? yeoman6987 Mar 2014 #1
Illinois has been downgraded Indyfan53 Mar 2014 #4
This kind of analysis is trotted out from time to time. Igel Mar 2014 #2
Yikes it most of it is pension debt..... Historic NY Mar 2014 #3
I call BULL SHIT....... AnneD Mar 2014 #5
Info..... AnneD Mar 2014 #6
 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
1. You are comparing a state to a city?
Tue Mar 11, 2014, 09:32 AM
Mar 2014

I am not sure you can accurately compare without everything that goes into these decisions. A few California cities have been downgraded, but the entire state of California has not. Perhaps they look at it micro and not macro.

Igel

(35,317 posts)
2. This kind of analysis is trotted out from time to time.
Tue Mar 11, 2014, 10:11 AM
Mar 2014

It's almost always used as a kind of hit piece that relies crucially on double-standards, something that's absurdly easy to do by accident when the standards are so complex to begin with.

Take the USPS. We defend it. But this is the kind of analysis used to impose the draconian pre-funding of retirement benefits that's killing the USPS budget.

Making matters even worse is that when it comes to valuing funds dedicated to pensions versus unfunded pension obligations things can get screwy. How do you value what's currently held in trust? How do you estimate benefits that will be paid? What inflation numbers do you use? How do you gauge any capital gains? Do you include everybody that's currently enrolled and assume they'll have "average" lifespans? Higher-than-average lifespans? What do you do with people that would be hired next year? Do you just fix a 20- or 30-year time limit on it--with all the arbitrariness that includes?

Your answers to those questions are (1) determinative of the outcome and (2) fairly arbitrary. Esp. when it comes to political creatures like states and cities. The USPS calculations are fairly arbitrary, but it's not got tax revenues behind it so it has to be judged less like a public service and more like a private entity (so the reasoning goes).

Even the terms in the OP are sort of weighted. TX is "middle of the pack," at $13-14k/person. But California's at $65k/person. It's "middle of the pack" at 39th by GDP.

What's worse is that Texas does municipal bond issues differently than a lot of states. In states I've lived in before cities could float bond proposals by themselves. They were in some sense sovereign. In Texas, the state has to approve bonds because the cities and counties *cannot* sponsor a bond issue--although they're first in line for making payments, the debt gets credited to the state because the state is on the hook in case of default (take that, Detroit). So when Houston passed a $2.7 billion bond issue for school improvements, drainage, comm. college improvements, etc., based on what Houston said Houston could afford, that gets credited as Texas state debt. (Texas is, in some ways, run more like a small country--one with a very centralized government.)

AnneD

(15,774 posts)
5. I call BULL SHIT.......
Tue Mar 11, 2014, 04:07 PM
Mar 2014

this is an attempt by investors salivating to crack open our pension retirement funds in Texas. Our funds are over 80+% funded currently-a damn site more than many others. In other words, we have money and investments set aside to cover these 'debts'. Illinois pension funds has not been as well funded and basically sucked dry by their corrupt politicians. The Arnold Foundation (they invaded Ca. pension)and others tried during the last session to open our pension fund and failed.

This is another attempt to sway public opinion against all us overpaid teachers. Our funds are well manager and the envy of many investment firms. Many districts here don't pay into Social Security (like the Rail Road Pension) so opening them up after the fact would be devastating.

Moody is not playing fav's on this one and we are fighting hard to keep crooks hands out of our cookie jar.

AnneD

(15,774 posts)
6. Info.....
Tue Mar 11, 2014, 04:22 PM
Mar 2014
http://www.pewstates.org/research/reports/the-widening-gap-update-85899398241?p=3

Pensioners in Texas have not gotten a raise in 10 years. With this last session, the state will increase it's contribution (the main reason it has fallen behind) and the folks working now will increase the amount they pay. As long as these investors don't get in and churn the funds we are OK.

Health care is problematic but once folks qualify for Medicare and the new health care laws, things may change. Besides, how many 401's offer any health care?
Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»2016 Postmortem»Texas Debt over $340 bill...