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1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
Sat May 16, 2015, 08:04 PM May 2015

Why Radicals Like Bernie Sanders Should Run As Democrats, Not Independents ...

This is a thread in the Bernie Group that I would have liked on, but I can't ... so I'll do it here.

A Bernie run would poses an interesting view of the Left ...

From the linked article:

In the wake of his announcement, some on the pragmatic left rushed to make the socialist safe for mass consumption. “Bernie Sanders is not Bukharin or Trotsky,” Rolling Stone’s Matt Taibbi assured readers, while Thor Benson took to the New Republic to demand the media stop calling Sanders a socialist (he’s a democratic socialist). The Huffington Post’s Jonathan Cohn went even further. Sanders “isn’t actually that far to the left,” Cohn said, and ultimately, “the label doesn’t mean a whole lot anyway.”


Taibbi, Benson, and Cohn ... widely championed on these pages as "true progressives" are considered the "pragmatic Left" ... but, others like Smith and Swanson consider Bernie as a sell-out or not the true deal.

This split can't be good for the Democratic Party or the anti-republican party ... So, I would love for a radical like Bernie run as a REPUBLICAN ... it wouldn't be that difficult to frame his language to be consistent with the republican party's stated "ideals" and "principles" ... and it would get the left's message out to working class republicans that are voting against their interests because they are just voting against the "D".
49 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Why Radicals Like Bernie Sanders Should Run As Democrats, Not Independents ... (Original Post) 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 OP
Bernie will run as a Democrat and he'll kick ass. Other candidates are duly warned. NYC_SKP May 2015 #1
He might kick ass; but, that has nothing ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #4
the majority of Americans hold views to the left of many current representatives of both major.... NYC_SKP May 2015 #9
Yes ... so imagine what would happen if ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #10
Bernie's going to pick them up anyway. He's a lot more likeable than Hillary. NYC_SKP May 2015 #12
Bernie is going to pick up the working class anti-Democratic voters? ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #14
Bernie's personality is something to be overlooked, at best. nt pnwmom May 2015 #25
At least he speaks in concrete comprehensible phrases. NYC_SKP May 2015 #28
running as a republican would be absurd and wholly inconsistent with Bernie's record cali May 2015 #49
Two things. Bernie is not a radical and David Swanson is a twit. Bluenorthwest May 2015 #2
"radical" "socialist" "Trotsky" delrem May 2015 #3
It wasn't my article. n/t 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #5
uh huh. nt delrem May 2015 #6
LOL ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #8
uh huh. nt delrem May 2015 #20
Radical = 'Not right wing' AgingAmerican May 2015 #22
Right. but can you prove Bernie isn't a Stalinist, or Maoist? hmmmm.... delrem May 2015 #23
Can a person prove they don't have bodies buried in central Oregon? AgingAmerican May 2015 #30
Red Herring. I think that's pretty proveable...like he says...look at my record. I see no libdem4life May 2015 #44
Bernie is not radical. onecaliberal May 2015 #7
Well compared to some democrats he's pretty damn radical Autumn May 2015 #15
Agree he is not radical. He and Warren are what Dems Should be. nt WDIM May 2015 #17
^^^that^^^ onecaliberal May 2015 #19
Me, too. ^^^^^^^ libdem4life May 2015 #45
"So, I would love for a radical like Bernie run as a REPUBLICAN" NYC_SKP May 2015 #11
... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #13
Bernie cant be bought by a corporation so... WDIM May 2015 #18
Do you think Hillary Clinton's message could be crafted to speak to any of that? hmmm? delrem May 2015 #24
Nonsense. He's running as a dem. 840high May 2015 #16
Bernie Sanders views are mainstream (traditional) Democratic AgingAmerican May 2015 #21
Then why is it so important to him to label himself as a Democratic socialist? pnwmom May 2015 #26
Not everyone is a clone of someone from the past AgingAmerican May 2015 #29
Please explain how being a "Democratic Socialist" is different enough pnwmom May 2015 #31
Please tell us what is 'extreme' about being a Democratic Socialist? AgingAmerican May 2015 #32
Gorbachev described himself the same way. I think it's a dumb label for any Democrat pnwmom May 2015 #33
So he is a commie? AgingAmerican May 2015 #34
That's the impression he unnecessarily chooses to give with that label. He is basically pnwmom May 2015 #35
You are stuck in right wing memes AgingAmerican May 2015 #36
We can't win without swing voters and he's stupid to alienate them for the sake of his ego pnwmom May 2015 #37
Sure, if you say so AgingAmerican May 2015 #38
I AM for socialistic programs. But it is a label that unnecessarily turns non-political voters -- pnwmom May 2015 #39
So you are stuck on a label AgingAmerican May 2015 #40
Branding sells in politics just like everywhere else. It's dumb to think it should be ignored, pnwmom May 2015 #41
Your position is very shallow AgingAmerican May 2015 #42
The majority of voters only have time for a shallow assessment of the candidates. pnwmom May 2015 #43
You only speak for yourself AgingAmerican May 2015 #46
I used to work for a national political polling firm (unaffiliated). I'm more familiar with average voters pnwmom May 2015 #47
Sorry AgingAmerican May 2015 #48
The fucking Cato Institute says other Senators are fiscally more left than Bernie--and the merrily May 2015 #27
 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
1. Bernie will run as a Democrat and he'll kick ass. Other candidates are duly warned.
Sat May 16, 2015, 08:08 PM
May 2015

Link: http://inthesetimes.com/article/17948/bernie_sanders_democrats

Key part of article you left out:

Radicals on the Left should take note. And so should pragmatists. While the unpopularity of Tea Party views among the public should ultimately—we hope—limit its rise to power, the majority of Americans hold views to the left of many current representatives of both major political parties. By mobilizing a determined volunteer base, we can counter the power of big money and exploit the gap between Democratic incumbents and their constituents. In other words, we can use the primary to our own advantage. As we can awaken and embolden the progressive majority, we can demonstrate that moving left is a winning strategy for Democrats.


 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
9. the majority of Americans hold views to the left of many current representatives of both major....
Sat May 16, 2015, 09:43 PM
May 2015

is all that matters.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
10. Yes ... so imagine what would happen if ...
Sat May 16, 2015, 09:51 PM
May 2015

Bernie run as a republican ... He would pick up all the working class "I'll never vote for a Democrat" republicans, a significant portion of working class republican leaning independents, and ALL of DU!

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
12. Bernie's going to pick them up anyway. He's a lot more likeable than Hillary.
Sat May 16, 2015, 10:13 PM
May 2015

He's easy to relate to.

Nobody out there can relate to a jet setting self-promoting, doesn't-have-a-message, professional millionaire politician.

Bernie, they will feel and understand his message.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
14. Bernie is going to pick up the working class anti-Democratic voters? ...
Sat May 16, 2015, 10:37 PM
May 2015

because they feel him?

Yeah, right!

Can I have some of what you are smoking/drinking?

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
28. At least he speaks in concrete comprehensible phrases.
Sun May 17, 2015, 10:56 AM
May 2015

Hillary is scripted, always, and it shows.

And it's usually empty rhetoric, absent any specific plans or promises.

Or example, when asked about her plan to take money from Super PACS, Hillary Clinton said:

"We do have a plan. We have a plan for my plan."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2015/04/14/hillary-clinton-we-do-have-a-plan-for-campaign-finance-reform/

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
49. running as a republican would be absurd and wholly inconsistent with Bernie's record
Mon May 18, 2015, 03:52 AM
May 2015

He has caucused with the dems for 25 years. His voting record is more dem than a huge number of titular dems. His governing philosophy aligns with dems like FDR. And there are practical reasons as well; the repuke field is crowded with something like 20 batshit crazy potential candidates elbowing each other for the most wingnutty soundbite. It would look and be nothing but a stunt.

dumb, dumb and dumber idea for Bernie to run as a repub.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
2. Two things. Bernie is not a radical and David Swanson is a twit.
Sat May 16, 2015, 08:19 PM
May 2015

Bernie Sanders, on the other hand has been in Congress caucusing with the Democrats since 1991. How radical.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
8. LOL ...
Sat May 16, 2015, 08:59 PM
May 2015

I didn't write the article ... and you clearly did not read the article (or apparently, my OP either) if you are taking issue with those terms. But, felt the need to comment anyway?

 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
30. Can a person prove they don't have bodies buried in central Oregon?
Sun May 17, 2015, 01:30 PM
May 2015

No they can't, because it's impossible to prove a negative.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
44. Red Herring. I think that's pretty proveable...like he says...look at my record. I see no
Sun May 17, 2015, 03:53 PM
May 2015

hint of the political rhetoric of those quoted above. Pretty sure he doesn't believe in pink unicorns either.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
11. "So, I would love for a radical like Bernie run as a REPUBLICAN"
Sat May 16, 2015, 10:02 PM
May 2015

You wrote:


This split can't be good for the Democratic Party or the anti-republican party ... So, I would love for a radical like Bernie run as a REPUBLICAN ... it wouldn't be that difficult to frame his language to be consistent with the republican party's stated "ideals" and "principles" ... and it would get the left's message out to working class republicans that are voting against their interests because they are just voting against the "D".


Exactly what are Sanders' positions that you find consistent with running as a Republican???
 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
13. ...
Sat May 16, 2015, 10:33 PM
May 2015
The 2012 Republican Platform is a statement of who we are and what we believe as a Party and our vision for a stronger and freer America.

The pursuit of opportunity has defined America from our very beginning. This is a land of opportunity. The American Dream is a dream of equal opportunity for all. And the Republican Party is the party of opportunity.

Today, that American Dream is at risk.

Our nation faces unprecedented uncertainty with great fiscal and economic challenges, and under the current Administration has suffered through the longest and most severe economic downturn since the Great Depression.

Many Americans have experienced the burden of lost jobs, lost homes, and lost hopes. Our middle class has felt that burden most acutely. Meanwhile, the federal government has expanded its size and scope, its borrowing and spending, its debt and deficit. Federalism is threatened and liberty retreats.

For the world, this has been four years of lost American leadership, leadership that depends upon economic vitality and peace through strength.

Put simply: The times call for trustworthy leadership and honest talk about the challenges we face. Our nation and our people cannot afford the status quo. We must begin anew, with profound changes in the way government operates; the way it budgets, taxes, and regulates. Jefferson’s vision of a “wise and frugal government” must be restored.

Providence has put us at the fork in the road, and we must answer the question: If not us, who? If not now, when?

That is the choice facing the American people this November. Every voter will be asked to choose between the chronic high unemployment and the unsustainable debt produced by a big government entitlement society, or a positive, optimistic view of an opportunity society, where any American who works hard, dreams big and follows the rules can achieve anything he or she wants.

The American people possess vast reserves of courage and determination and the capacity to hear the truth and chart a strong course. They are eager for the opportunity to take on life’s challenges and, through faith and hard work, transform the future for the better. They are the most generous people on earth, giving sacrificially of their time, talent, and treasure.

This platform affirms that America has always been a place of grand dreams and even grander realities; and so it will be again, if we return government to its proper role, making it smaller and smarter. If we restructure government’s most important domestic programs to avoid their fiscal collapse. If we keep taxation, litigation, and regulation to a minimum. If we celebrate success, entrepreneurship, and innovation. If we lift up the middle class. If we hand over to the next generation a legacy of growth and prosperity, rather than entitlements and indebtedness.

That same commitment must be present both here at home and abroad. We are a party that knows the difference between international acclaim and world leadership. We will lift the torch of freedom and democracy to inspire all those who would be free. As President Reagan issued the clarion call to “tear down this Wall,” so must we always stand against tyranny and oppression. We will always support and cherish our men and women in uniform who defend our liberties with their lives.

As we embark upon this critical mission, we are not without guidance. We possess an owner’s manual: the Constitution of the United States, the greatest political document ever written. That sacred document shows us the path forward. Trust the people. Limit government. Respect federalism. Guarantee opportunity, not outcomes. Adhere to the rule of law. Reaffirm that our rights come from God, are protected by government, and that the only just government is one that truly governs with the consent of the governed.

The principles written in the Constitution are secured by the character of the American people. President George Washington said in his first inaugural address: “The propitious smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right which Heaven itself has ordained.” Values matter. Character counts.

Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan understand these great truths. They share a positive vision for America – a vision of America renewed and strong. They know America’s best days lay ahead. It will take honest results-oriented, conservative leadership to enact good policies for our people. They will provide it.

We respectfully submit this platform to the American people. It is both a vision of where we are headed and an invitation to join us in that journey. It is about the great dreams and opportunities that have always been America and must remain the essence of America for generations to come.


That is the preamble to the 2012 republican platform Much of it (with the exception of the limited government/balanced budget. kill regulations, and the religion stuff) sound EXACTLY like what Bernie is saying.

Do you think Bernie's team would have any difficulty crafting a message to speak to any of this?

delrem

(9,688 posts)
24. Do you think Hillary Clinton's message could be crafted to speak to any of that? hmmm?
Sun May 17, 2015, 05:26 AM
May 2015

Explain why, or why not, in 5,000 words or less.

pnwmom

(108,997 posts)
26. Then why is it so important to him to label himself as a Democratic socialist?
Sun May 17, 2015, 05:45 AM
May 2015

Why doesn't he call himself a FDR or Ted Kennedy Democrat?

 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
29. Not everyone is a clone of someone from the past
Sun May 17, 2015, 01:27 PM
May 2015

He isn't pretending to be someone else. Nothing 'radical' about that.

Please list his 'radical' ideas if he is so extreme.

pnwmom

(108,997 posts)
31. Please explain how being a "Democratic Socialist" is different enough
Sun May 17, 2015, 01:32 PM
May 2015

to warrant a label that would put so many voters off.

 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
32. Please tell us what is 'extreme' about being a Democratic Socialist?
Sun May 17, 2015, 01:34 PM
May 2015

Not right wing enough for you?

pnwmom

(108,997 posts)
33. Gorbachev described himself the same way. I think it's a dumb label for any Democrat
Sun May 17, 2015, 01:37 PM
May 2015

who wants to succeed on the national stage.

 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
34. So he is a commie?
Sun May 17, 2015, 01:38 PM
May 2015

That didn't take you long.

Lemme guess, the GOP won't like it? Boo fucking hoo!

pnwmom

(108,997 posts)
35. That's the impression he unnecessarily chooses to give with that label. He is basically
Sun May 17, 2015, 01:40 PM
May 2015

a liberal Democrat but he is stubbornly attached to a label from the 60's.

pnwmom

(108,997 posts)
37. We can't win without swing voters and he's stupid to alienate them for the sake of his ego
Sun May 17, 2015, 01:57 PM
May 2015

when he's really a liberal Democrat not much different from Warren.

 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
38. Sure, if you say so
Sun May 17, 2015, 02:01 PM
May 2015

Cuz, you know, the GOP won't like the 'S' word.

Are you for Obamacare? Are you for Social Security, Medicare, etc? If so, you are a socialist. So are most Republicans.

pnwmom

(108,997 posts)
39. I AM for socialistic programs. But it is a label that unnecessarily turns non-political voters --
Sun May 17, 2015, 02:27 PM
May 2015

which is the majority -- away.

pnwmom

(108,997 posts)
41. Branding sells in politics just like everywhere else. It's dumb to think it should be ignored,
Sun May 17, 2015, 02:49 PM
May 2015

or that a politician is above all that and should deliberately use a label that turns voters off.

pnwmom

(108,997 posts)
43. The majority of voters only have time for a shallow assessment of the candidates.
Sun May 17, 2015, 03:01 PM
May 2015

Not acknowledging that is unrealistic.

pnwmom

(108,997 posts)
47. I used to work for a national political polling firm (unaffiliated). I'm more familiar with average voters
Sun May 17, 2015, 04:37 PM
May 2015

and how to appeal to them than you are, clearly.

I think he has lots of great ideas but it's stupid to brand himself with a brand that is a negative for the average voter he wants to appeal to.

 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
48. Sorry
Sun May 17, 2015, 07:33 PM
May 2015

Democrats shouldn't strive to appeal to idiots and you will never convince me otherwise.

Have a nice say!

merrily

(45,251 posts)
27. The fucking Cato Institute says other Senators are fiscally more left than Bernie--and the
Sun May 17, 2015, 06:10 AM
May 2015

US Senate is a notoriously conservative body. However, for about 10% of DU, Bernie is a radical. Go figure.

(10% according to this poll. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6592890

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