2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBernie Sanders talks about getting more white people to vote Democrat
http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2014/11/19/365024592/sen-bernie-sanders-on-how-democrats-lost-white-votersNPR's Steve Inskeep sat down with Sanders in his office and talked about the senator's plan for the middle class, how he says the Democratic Party lost its way
bravenak
(34,648 posts)winter is coming
(11,785 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)Both are positioning themselves as speaking for the "white working class", and both are partially doing so.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)...aren't big fans of social justice or economic safety nets.
To go after them, you would have to give things up that would lose you parts of the existing Democratic base. It would be a zero sum game at best.
JI7
(89,260 posts)etc.
remember the govt shut down ? many supported it because they saw it as cutting off welfare to the minorities but were surprised at how they were affected because they want to believe whatever they were getting was not the same thing or for the same reasons.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)frazzled
(18,402 posts)he wanted to be the candidate for guys with Confederate flags on their pickup trucks.
But he kind of came awfully close. You see, if railing against big-money interests is the only tool you have in your bag, you're going to miss all the other issues with working-class white voters: like virulent misogyny, racism, xenophobia, opposition to social programs, etc. The problem is, they don't suddenly become enlightened liberals (okay, he acknowledges he isn't a liberal) because you might be able to convince them of some economic interest. So you're going to have to accept all the nasty bits of them as well. And that starts to get ... complicated.
scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)kath
(10,565 posts)frazzled
(18,402 posts)Last edited Fri Jul 17, 2015, 09:16 AM - Edit history (1)
to what I was saying. Plus, 7-8 months ago is hardly, um, a long time ago.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)In the US, populism has always been white supremacy dressed up in the clothes of economic justice. I'm curious whether that leopard can change its spots.
(For anyone who freaks out, no, that's not a dig at Sanders, it's a prediction that the voters he needs to target for his coalition are mostly too racist to end up supporting him.)
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)I am sincerely interested.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)The first big incarnation, the "People's Party", endorsed William Jennings Bryan in 1896. Here's something of his from a stump speech:
http://www.edchange.org/multicultural/speeches/w_bryan_white.html
There is a white man's burden -- a burden which the white man should not shirk even if he could, a burden which he could not shirk even if he would. That no one liveth unto himself or dieth unto himself, has a national as well as an individual application. Our destinies are so interwoven that each exerts an influence directly or indirectly upon all others.
Sometimes this influence is unconsciously exerted, as when, for instance, the good or bad precedent set by one nation in dealing with its own affairs is followed by some other nation. Sometimes the influence is incidentally exerted, as when, for example, a nation, in the extension of its commerce, introduces its language and enlarges the horizon of the people with whom it trades.
Later, the populist movement of the 1920s hitched its star to Robert M. LaFollette, who pushed eugenics into Wisconsin social policy. A decade later, the standardbearers of populism were Huey P. Long and Fr. Charles Coughlin, whose racism (I hope) needs no introduction. Long and Coughlin both railed constantly against FDR for giving away too much of the New Deal to minorities (modern thinkers tend to fault him severely for the fact that the New Deal barely included nonwhites at all; even that was too much for the populists of the day) with the result that both broke with FDR by 1936 after supporting him in 1932. FDR, remember, was a Bourbon Democrat, not a populist, at least in terms of the voting coalition he brought to the party.
This era (the 1920s and 1930s) also saw the second resurgence of the KKK, largely in the midwest; the Klan was every bit a "populist" and "progressive" movement in its day (and at this point, Strom Thurmond was a "progressive" Democrat who opposed many of FDR's policies because they involved to some extent white tax money going to blacks -- the progressives and populists wanted a fully functioning social democracy for whites only).
The next populist national leader was George Wallace, who admittedly had a "dynamic" view on racial issues, but only achieved populist success as a virulent racist. This gets to my premise on Bernie: the history of populism has not been of racist demogogues turning aggrieved whites against blacks and immigrants, but of racist aggrieved whites pushing their leaders into increasingly racist positions -- c.f. Wallace's vow never to be "out-n****red" by an opponent again.
The more recent appearance of populism as a self-identified movement hit public attention in 1992 with the Perot fans, who are essentially the same people as the current Tea Party.
Populism -- at least its core ideas -- did precede Bryan (consider the anti-Masonic and anti-immigrant "Know Nothings" of the middle 19th century), but the 1890s was the first time I know of that a movement consistently called itself "populist". At any rate, the consistent theme, at least to my eyes, has been that of aggrieved working class/poor whites, generally rural, and increasingly "ethnic white" as time progressed (and as the "ethnics" became "white" .
It is a truism, variously attributed to many writers, that if America were entirely white we would have the most socialist government in the developed world, and that's probably true; for an entire book on that question, see Katznelson's "Fear Itself" on the role white supremacy played in the establishment of the New Deal. But the fact remains: government programs that are seen as helping white people (SS, Medicare, SSDI) are viewed highly positively by poor whites, while government programs that are seen as helping nonwhites (SSI, TANF/AFDC, SNAP) are viewed highly negatively by poor whites (in general, of course).
For some longer-form arguments than this, I can think of some very good books:
Fear Itself by Ira Katznelson
Democratic Promise by Lawrence Goodwyn (this is more about monetary policy but mentions race; the two subjects are inseparable in the late 19th century US)
The Radical Middle Class by Robert D. Johnston, a study of Portland, Oregon, during the Progressive era and the rise of populism, progressivism, and the Klan.
JI7
(89,260 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Last edited Fri Jul 17, 2015, 09:27 AM - Edit history (1)
The folks who currently vote Democratic, the white, black, hispanic, female, LGBT folks who vote Democratic wouldn't come along for the ride if we abandon economic or social justice. Which is exactly what you would have to do to pander to those white voters who currently won't vote Democratic.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)If America were entirely white it would probably have the most socialist system in the developed world...
boston bean
(36,223 posts)The party has left them.
Why cause the party shifted to social justice versus the economic justice that pretty much helped only them.
This is why Sanders will never be the nominee of the democratic party. He doesn't get it. He doesn't want to talk about it, because it alienates the people he thinks he needs to vote for him to win. When he says, he may be wrong in the Times article, he doesn't realize how wrong he actually is.
That is also the reason he says things like, you should only worry about how your family is doing economically, not these other tangential issues, that we can't agree upon.