Last edited Sat Jul 18, 2015, 09:10 PM - Edit history (1)

...that Bernie was showing up at NN, and trumpeting the fact that Clinton wasn't. Now, when Bernie is suddenly faced with an audience not as supportive as the ones he's been appearing at, where activists don't prioritize the same set of issues that Bernie does, it could only be a conspiracy by the Clinton campaign (who apparently also convinced Sanders to refuse to address the activists' concerns until he'd talked about his issues first, making the situation worse).

The protesters were more interested in getting attention for themselves.

But you jumped all over causing it in those threads.

if one watches the real VIDEO of the interaction from "NetRoots Convention."

Watch it. He gave them the appropriate answers from his Heart as an Activist since the 60's.

The Disinfo from those who didn't watch needs to be refuted from the Videos from the Netroots Conference.

I think you are fair enough to at least WATCH!. Or, who knows?

Don't want the backup info, facts, or - God forbid - further research. Especially if more reading is required. Also: no evaluating sources! Too "thinky".


Just start screeching and keep at it.

to be part of the program.

Black Lives Matters is about reaching out and raising awareness of the fact that so many Black lives have been lost to police brutality.

Had the organizers of the event, the organizers of Black Lives Matter and the presidential candidates attending the event worked together to provide a meaningful time and a respectful listing of the shocking number of names on the list (which I don't think was read in its entirety) of Black lives lost to police brutality, the Black Lives Matter movement would have benefited greatly.

As it is, the Black lives that do matter and that have been lost were not the focus of the attention. Rather, the discourtesy of the protestors, the unnecessary discourtesy given the profound solidarity that both O'Malley and Sanders clearly feel for the Black Lives Matter agenda, grabbed the agenda and a genuine discussion of how to end the police brutality did not take place.

A loss to all sides, to the many Black lives lost, to the Black Lives Matter movement which came across looking rude because it was not given the place it deserved on the agenda and the rest of us who would have liked to see our candidates speak and also deal with the Black Lives Matter issues with full attention and not this kind of chaotic, distracting demonstration.

It was sort of a shock and awe type of moment brought about by either the organization of the Netroots Nation or the Black Lives Matter, maybe both.

It was an insult to all of us white liberals who want to help make Black Lives Matter but don't know quite how.

Counterproductive. Yet the cause is so good and the protests so justified.

So it left many of us protesting the methods and supporting the cause. And that is not a pleasant place to be. Movements should try to avoid placing potential supporters in the position that the Black Lives Matter demonstration placed so many of us at Netroots Nation. Not a smart move although forgivable because the cause is so deserving and so pressing.

I hope that all concerned learned an important lesson. Don't get attention by offending your friends. It's just not smart.

Facts are stupid things...

but don't let that interfere with your "spin"

now others are doing it to him.

Fascinating to look at his trajectory.

Definitely a good story in its own right.

Irrational since Bernie was marching for civil rights before many of them were born but good for them. They are uninformed he is aware.

We, liberals, historically have been split every which way we could.

And now, with the Internet - and on netroot conference, no less - the different fractions show up and disrupt speakers.

Perhaps candidates should stay away from such free for all events.

...the protesters didn't provide room for that. That was a mistake.

Fortunately, there was an opportunity given O'Malley afterward...

that he would be there, with stirring music, graphics, etc. but then there is no follow up.

They didn't show what happened so perhaps they didn't think it was showing him in the best light. So I don't know what really happened.

Sorry, but I don't have cable and haven't been to get if from CSPAN in spite of someone's help because I'm not going to sign up to one more thing.

So I can only take the word of everyone who saw it here.

What's the purpose of that?

They accomplished nothing but looking like idiots, & ruining a very special day, & they have nothing to show for it.

Did they get their one-on-one meeting with Sanders? No, he understandably cancelled the meeting. Did they gain sympathy from the audience? Not likely, the audience was there to hear the candidates speak. Did NRN benefit? No, it comes off as a disorganized joke. What candidate will speak to them in '16? Has BLM cause been advanced? No. Some other more responsible group will have to pick up the torch.
All I see here are a bunch of narcissists...personal attention means more to them than the cause they claim to promote. So sad that egos take precedence over an important issue.

Bubbles need bursting and they certainly busted some bubbles!

Uh-huh.

The look on the faces of the mostly white Bernie supporters wearing those Robin Hood hats....

It's not just about economics. Blacks face shit that white people will never go through. Walking home from the store without being stalked and killed because of the color of your skin is a privilege. Trayvon didn't have that privilege.

Well done, #BlackLivesMatter.

Pop those bubbles.

That's not winning anything.

they hate liberals

That'll totally be better.

Perhaps we should listen to someone who might know a bit about how economic and social justice are intertwined.

...when some racist fuckwit decides to gun you down in a church because you're black?

You can't eat a hamburger when you're dead.

No amount of economic equality would have saved the 9 blacks massacred in South Carolina.

You just don't get it.

Again, you can't eat a hamburger when you're dead.

And fortunately, we can multitask.

Because without economic justice, you can't get social justice. Poverty exacerbates and reinforces racism. And if you wave a magic wand and make racism disappear, minorities will still be oppressed via poverty.

But good to know you think Martin Luther King, Jr didn't get it.

Without social justice, economic equality won't mean a whole hell of a lot if you're treated as a second class citizen because of the color of your skin.

You're still not getting it.

Let me guess, you're white? It's no surprise you would want to prioritize economic justice before social justice....because that would benefit you.

Which is what MLK was getting at. Which is why I explicitly do not prioritize either.

You think we should multitask while I think racial equality should be prioritized.

Is going to ignore the whole economy to work solely on civil rights. Aint gonna happen.

very well said. It is amazing to me how people can even begin to argue against this... especially what passes for the left. You will find absolutely ZERO Black leftists that don't understand this. The cops main function in capitalist society is to protect the private property, power, and privilege of the ruling classes. Police brutality is a symptom of that main function. This is not to deny the history of white supremacy that goes along with that.

There is no country on earth with no economic justice that has one iota of civil justice. Doesn't exist.

Your meme is irrational and has no history to support it.

equality is a matter of the spirit, of compassion, of feeling one with other human beings.

Passing laws that promote racial equality can only go so far. It is much more than a legal issue. It is a social issue. The demonstrations alienated or risked alienating not the candidates but people in the audience who felt confused by what seemed to be a hostile attack on O'Malley and Sanders both of whom are strong advocates for racial justice.

It was unfortunate. The Black Lives Matter group should have been given a better place in the proceedings and the list of names of victims of police oppression should have been read in a truly respectful way.

So both sides are right, and I fault Netroots Nation for the organization of this important aspect of their event.

45% of African American children under the age of 6 live in poverty. 27% of African-Americans in general suffer poverty, nearly double the rate of white Americans. The numbers for Latinos are very similar. The leading cause for this problem is income inequality.

But this is not a concern for you. You and many others go out of your way to silence talk on such subjects.

Why?

help the cause of civil rights, right?

...coming from a 'Democrat'.

when BLM interrupts a Hillary event (if they ever do *whistles*)?

Me and Sylvester will wait for your response.
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But crickets from them in heckling those who either ignore them (Hillary) or disagree with them (GOP)...

concerns.

Guys in suits with badges would drag them away.

Like happened to this guy who merely turned his back on her while she was speaking...

He answered their questions during the brief time remaining. See the videos.

He gave a speech tonight that was supported by all races. No damage was done because really nothing bad occurred.

I am glad they spoke out. It went a little over the top but hey rage will do that. Now I eagerly await them protesting Clinton, Chaffee, Webb, and the Democratic Convention next summer.

Unless you think "sitting in a chair for the remaining duration of his allotted time" is the same as "running out"

And they sure did a job on the most progressive white candidates.

I do think though, that the protestors' ire is misdirected, I may say so. Bernie, I think, should start making racial justice issues a higher priority in his speeches. He has a great civil rights record so he should speak about it, imo, it will only help his candidacy.

It simply does not matter what Bernie says, or perhaps what O'Malley says...

It just does not matter.

We need to stand united against those who would truly destroy this country (Republicans), not be in-fighting amongst each other. It will be a great day when progressives are able to stand as one against the Enemy.

Huge Applause and that the "BLM" stopped and listened. What you've been reading is belied in the VIDEO from "NetRoots Nation" Conference.

Here in Bernie "PlainSpeak from Years as an Activist going back to MLK:

Bernie Sanders Responds To Black Lives Matter Protesters - Netroots Nation

....they shouted that down too. It's pretty obvious they didn't want answers, they just wanted attention.

They are cutting off their noses to spite their own faces, IMHO.

But I do understand the frustration and anger BLM must have at society in general because of the way this country and its criminal justice system treats blacks. I think that good will come out of this and Bernie will emerge even stronger than before and incorporate, in a more front and center kinda way, the plight of black people in our country.

who are actually on your side is a really good idea!

Equal rights must come first.

We need both. And we can multitask.

I am a white, middleclass guy, with a house, a car, the ability to take vacaitons, healthcare though the VA, and can drive where I want without being pulled over because I don't look like I belong.

An individual right to life must come first.

of in "the black neighborhood", are they not dead?

You can't get social justice without economic justice. Because poverty will continue to be used to oppress. And you can't get economic justice without social justice. Because racism is a fantastic tool of the wealthy.

We are going to have to do both at the same time.

And since they need to be fixed in different areas, we can do that. We can reform our justice system while also breaking up "too big to fail". We do not have to only do one and then the other.

Fighting only for social justice makes many poor whites an enemy. The reason they are moronically voting for the Republicans and supporting racist cops is they blame their shitty lives on minorities. If you're fighting the economic battle at the same time you are fighting for social justice, you get them at least out of the way. There's a chance you'll make some allies.

And on the flip side, as MLK said, “What good is having the right to sit at a lunch counter if you can’t afford to buy a hamburger?”. If I wave a magic wand and end racism, minorities will still be oppressed economically.

We need both, at the same time. And we need activists for each "holding our feet to the fire" to make sure we do not sacrifice one for the other.

and a much higher percentage of people living in poverty.

Check out the stats.

Economic justice is not going to fix racism and white privaledge.

http://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/cps_charts.pdf#page19

Equal rights must come fist.

They suffer higher unemployment because they are black.
They are discriminated against because they are black.
When they apply for work, they are less likely to be hired because they are black.
They are mudered in churches because they are black.

Economic justice is not the solution to a racist system, and I suspsect economic justice is not possible until we do something about racial inequality in our system.

My oldest is dating an adorable black person. The family appears to be in a better financial situation than we are.....however, they still have to worry about how to talk to PD, still worry about being out late alone, still deal with the look of fear. Economics is not the start to full equality, it is the end result of social justice.

There's only so much you can actually legislate racism away.

But racism is a fantastic tool to use in economic oppression. See LBJ's famous quote about "lowest white man".

We can not get economic justice without social justice. And we can not get social justice without economic justice. And if we try to do either one alone, we lose on both.

Many black folks will NEVER achieve "economic justice" with heavy handed police tactics in our cities, many of them ran by democrats - the same democrats who are in the pockets of big money and are selling black communities out to real estate developers because they want a shiny new city - a utopia filled with well-monied hipsters as their constituents.

Police tactics is a large root of the problem. It's designed to keep us from EVER achieving what you may define "economic justice".

Stop, frisk and treat us like criminals from the time we can walk until they can get as many of us registered in the criminal justice system is how it works. You do know there is profit in that. Once in the system, we are at the mercy of this "economic oppression" as you call it.

Can't get a decent job because of failed background checks.

A person cannot get decent housing with a failed criminal background check. Don't even think about walking in one of those shiny new luxury apartments that are popping up all through the black communities. Those are reserved for educated hipsters with careers and squeaky clean backgrounds. Hell, even with sect 8 public housing (the few remaining that haven't been bull-dozed in favor of "mixed income apartments&quot we cannot get a housing voucher with a criminal background.

So how do folks caught up gonna survive? Why is this NOT important enough for politicians to naturally address without being "rudely interrupted by activists" from their canned speeches.

If we don't have a voice, WE HAVE TO SHOUT until we are heard and these issues are addressed.

Sanders talked about it the previous night. And several other times during this campaign. Heck, Sanders has a lovely speech on the floor of Congress in 1991, when "get tough on crime" was ascendant saying that this was a bad idea and would fuck over PoC. Back when such a stand was politically unpopular.

O'Malley started his time in Baltimore with the same tough-on-crime bullshit, and has since had a change of heart. That he has talked about repeatedly.

In fact, both of their "canned speeches" include it. Both have released specific plans for what they want to do.

You know who hasn't interrupted their canned speech to offer more than platitudes, and has not released anything specific? Clinton. Where's your shouting at her?

You know who could actually do something about it TODAY? Obama, Lynch and everyone else in the Obama administration. Where's your shouting at them?

by racists.

Their schools are underfunded, they are less likely to be hired than a white person with the same qualifications. They are more likely to be arested, tried, convicted, and sent ot prison than a white defendent for the same crime.

The call for economic justice is not going to fix these problems.

We need a Congress and a President who will pass legislation to solve these problems. We need a Supreme Court that will work to enforce equal rights.

Ecomomic justice will not address racism in any meaningful way.

#BLACKLIVESMATTER needs to be in the face of every politican running, and if a politician doesn't listen, he or she needs to be shourted down.

I do not deny that racism is the source of a lot of inequality in opportunity, but I don't see why eliminating inequality in opportunity won't solve anything. You point out that "their schools are underfunded, they are less likely to be hired than a white person with the same qualifications." Those are economic injustices. Economic justice would mean eliminating those problems.

Without adressing the racist system, it is possible to make things better for me (I'm white) but it will not address the racism in our system.

Racism and ecomic injustice are different problems that will not be fixed by a single solution.

Institutional racism includes (but is not limited to) economic and educational inequality between races. Those inequalities are instances of economic injustice. So institutional racism and economic injustice overlap. So I am not sure I agree that racism and economic injustice are completely different problems though I agree that you can't reduce one of them to the other.

How do we deal with racism, and how do we address an economic system that benefits those with more money?

I wish I had answers, I don't.

It is my inclination to put exenting equal rights to everone first. That will not address the economic inequality, but it will put everyone on the same page.

Our economic system benefits whites way more than blacks and that is an economic injustice that does more harm to blacks than any other form of racism. For example, lack of educational and economic opportunity takes far more black lives than are taken by racists with guns. Mass incarceration is also a huge injustice, but even that is intimately tied to a lack of economic opportunity.

wasn't about economics and power (who owns what and why including humans). Some white assholes just decided to enslave Blacks for the hell of it...no economic benefit involved... no plantations involved, no "property rights", and no land ownership involved. Your posts in this thread are beyond ignorance and entirely devoid of any historical analysis.

Bankrupts your attempt to make a point.

#BLACKLIVESMATTER is about equal rights. Until we extends rights to everyone, minorities will be excluded.

belongs solely to you. You are not even in the ballpark on this issue. You are using subjective reality and emotion to stake your claim of righteous analysis. Leftists do not deal in subjective reality or emotions...leftists deal in objective material reality and material history to view material conditions past and present as they were and as they are.

As I stated in a previous post here. Institutionalized racism...arose along with Capitalism and the modern slave trade. Dividing the people based on race is a by-product of capitalist social relations. Prior to the introduction of capitalist social relations and the capitalist modes of commodity production ... racism as an institutionalized form of oppression didn't exist. Once understanding that objective material reality there is no possible conclusion that can be drawn that separates social justice from economic justice. That is not up for debate.

Any fight against racism without fighting for economic justice and bringing very real class distinctions and class struggle to the table is not a fight that can be won. Without fighting for both we still have millions of poor and economically oppressed and exploited people of color. Social Justice without Economic Justice is not a plan and can never bring any real end to oppression and exploitation of the working class and the oppressed.

Leftists fully support the efforts, struggle, and organization of movements like Black Lives Matter. That is not what is in question. What is in question is the insistence of yourself and others that fighting racism without an understanding of class struggle, economic justice, and the foundations of what racism rests on is a battle that can be won.

Until we fix the racism, economic solutions will just benefit the ethnic group at the top.

of anything resembling substance or historical analysis. Malcolm did not agree, Mlk did not agree, Fred Hampton did not agree and certainly no Black leftist agrees with the argument you and some others are putting forth.

You are viewing racism through the lens of capitalism as the "end of history." You can not "fix racism." You can't "legislate away" racism. Racism is an institution that evolved out of the modern day slave trade and the beginnings of capitalist commodity production and the quest for "free labor." What part of that don't you get ? What the ruling classes fear more than anything else is the unification of the oppressed and exploited of all races. Divide and conquer for profit. Racism is a tool to create that division.

I post on many venues. You would not find a single post I have ever made that denies that the foundations of this country were built on a foundation of ruling class white supremacy and white privilege. That is not the point of contention. The point of contention is that you and some others (some who have already taken to trying to hide my posts because they can't handle the discussion...I alert on no responses or discussion that is thrown my way and never will) believe that Social Justice is possible under a capitalist ruling class power structure that relies on racism to thrive and divide the oppressed and exploited of all races. Social Justice is not possible without economic justice... unless you consider "the equal rights" for the poor, struggling, and exploited blacks, browns, yellow, whites ect. to starve together in the streets "Social Justice for all."

"The slaveholders…by encouraging the enmity of the poor, laboring white man against the Blacks, succeeded in making the said white man almost as much a slave as the Black himself…Both are plundered, and by the same plunderers." Or, as Douglass also said, "They divided both to conquer each."

--Frederick Douglass

Have I said anything that disagrees with the statement that racism against the AA community is institutionalized ? Have I said that I don't stand with Black Lives Matter or organization of radical social movements on the ground that challenges the capitalist power structure that thrives on racism ? No, I have said none of those things. I discussed the dynamics of capitalist frauds and hypocrites who are using race to try and drive wedges and are stopping multiracial solidarity movements forming. Do you think that poor and oppressed people of "other races" are not also getting their heads smashed in the streets by those whose job is to defend power and privilege of the oppressors and exploiters of capital ? Lets talk again on this in the future. Hopefully we are on the same side here.

I look forward to it.

that a politician running on Black Lives Matter without an agenda that also offers economic hope to white voters can win?

I think that there has to be a balance in order to win an election.

I think that economic issues unite all races and that the special problems of Black Americans need to be addressed in addition to the economic problems that harm the vast majority of Americans.

We need a candidate who can focus on both issues at the same time. I thiknk that candidate is Bernie Sanders.

not forced to the side to protest in a way that made them look bad.

The list of the names of the victims of police brutality deserved to be read at a moment of focus and thoughtfulness.

TRYING to answer their last question, they were shouting another one. I understand those people are upset and anxious to by heard, but constantly yelling questions without listening to any response doesn't help your cause. It makes you look like all you want to do is disrupt and really don't care what the answers are.

The Hillarians have done an excellent job of provoking racial animus. Their attempt failed 8 years ago. They must have refined it. And since they're on the wrong side of most of the issues, what else hae they got?

BTW, will these agents provocateur be appearing at the Republican debates?

If they would have shook their fists in the air and led the crowd in a cheer of "Black lives matter" they would have had those protestors eating out of their hand.

This is America, where pandering pays off and nobody cares what you do as long as you say the right words.

Now, the man on the stand he wants my vote
He's a-runnin' for office on the ballot note
He's out there preachin' in front of the steeple
Tellin' me he loves all kinds-a people
(He's eatin' bagels
He's eatin' pizza
He's eatin' chitlins).

This blog is terribly written and the money line is here:

&quot Sanders) came across as a self-important know-it-all who has better things to do than to listen to uppity black kids who are disrupting HIS speech."

Gloating is ugly, especially when their candidate spurned the entire event.

Some call them white (the ones that are due to racial ancestry). Some don't.

Others don't seem to mind. Personally I'm not sure I get to make the call on who is what, but I always find it odd to see people jump to the conclusion that Bernie is "just another white guy." He was born in 1941, and I'm pretty sure he did not have all the perks that non-Jewish people did during that time period.

getting 1968 deja vu re Nixon's "law and order" message in the wake of Dem convention chaos

be too easily rattled and quick to anger.

Whoever is egging them into disrupting Democratic events is a republican stooge.

The Democrats, all of them, are BLM's natural allies. This was appallingly stupid and shortsighted.

Good job getting the message out there, BLM!

that's been going on since the day Bernie Sanders entered the race, and that's been dominating discussion on DU?

Do you agree with this OP's trashing of "progressive whites" (whoever they are ...)?
"Unlike Gov. O’Malley who allowed the protesters to be heard, Sanders was visibly irritated, saying things like, “If you don’t want me here, I will leave.” He even shushed them at one point.

At times he plunged on, talking over the protesters as if they weren’t there. While he is largely a supporter of civil rights and is, in general, right on the issues of the Black Lives Matter movement, he came across as a self-important know-it-all who has better things to do than to listen to uppity black kids who are disrupting HIS speech. In the end, he took off his microphone and left the stage without as much as a wave to the audience."

I think this is the most disgusting political infighting that I've ever seen, among a supposedly leftist/liberal/progressive group.

It makes me sick.

They try to couch everything in terms of economic justice like that's gonna fix racism. We have been through that shit before and it's tired and we are not feeling it. Instead of trying to figure out why their message don't work with us they make assumptions that we are not informed or that name recognition is the problem. They discuss it with other white liberals and the few few few like minded black people they feel comfortable with. They get angry when they are told that their message is not resonating and start screeds about who marched with Dr King (totally fucking patronizing) get all paternalistic (they know what our community needs better than we do), and then they talk down to us like we're fucking stupid. That is the problem in a nutshell. Ask what we think, don't talk at us or over us. Maybe hire a few black people on your staff so they can tell you why you are failing with that group.

Maybe Bernie needs to meet up with BLM abd ask what he can do to help. And no making admiration over marches from 50 years ago. Shit is real right now, what is he going to do in the now. We don't live 50 years ago.

and I TOTALLY RESENT your categorization of me.

It's not fair.

The way it's being played on DU, it's nothing more than a HRC campaign meme, and it's such a dirty meme that there's NOTHING I or anyone else can do to defend against it. Even to attempt to defend oneself is to lay oneself open to be called filthy names.

There's a year to go, and this DIRTY anti-progressive shit has just started.

Awful. Just awful.

Well, good luck with Hillary or Jeb - because neither of them is a progressive aka racist.

get a pass. Not because Hillary is Hillary, but because she's not PROGRESSIVE, and it's WHITE PROGRESSIVES who are the filthy racists, right? "Nothing to do with Hillary", of course and it's mere coincidence, who has been pushing this meme for a solid month now.

And you know that.

And HRC is the candidate who benefits from this swift-boating tactic.

I follow (in a good way) bravenak. I totally admire her courage.

That's why I responded to her post with my question, because I can't get my mind around the anti-progressive meme.

Bye.