It bulldozes right through the deeply-felt concerns contained in the phrase "black lives matter." As to whether it's a gaffe and requires an apology, I guess that depends on one's constituency and who one is trying to appeal to.

When the politicians have received the message?

We need to all aknowledge that living in this country is far more dangerous for the AA community. It is.

It just is.

When we say all lives matter, these deaths merge into a pool of deaths.

Imagine if we responded to the statement "6 Million Jews died in WWII." With "60million died in WWII, all deaths are equal."

We would skim over the fact that some deaths were the result of something more than just war casualties.

thank you

He is trying to address such issues. The crazy host keeps touching him saying wait...then he turns to the protestors puts up his hand for them to wait, then he waves his hand at Bernie...when Bernie starts to talk the protestors yell.

He was addressing the criminal justice system wrongs,trying to discuss more.

It was a shameful thing to watch.

Please, Madfloridian, let go of being angry that they disrupted their time. Bernie wasn't hurt by it, he went on to speak to 12, 600 people tonight.

The job of president will be filled with much harder days, far deeper disrespect and much more tuning out. He can handle it. He must be able to handle it.

Please, the BLM are people in pain and they may not be reacting with manners, but the community at large has been far more patient, far more forgiving than imaginable.

I know you feel this deeply because you respect Bernie and Martin and you feel they weren't respected.

Politics ain't for sissies. Both men handled it, and know there is still so much to handle

Please.

Being angry still, does nothing but make sleep hard.

I think being angry sometimes is a healthy thing. That was the most unnerving political event I have ever seen. A host who could not quit texting and checking his phone. Two or three chants being yelled out at once.

This is not about Bernie. It is about all of us who truly care about people and their needs. We are being turned into the enemy.

But the protesters were not there for Bernie or Martin. They were there for themselves. For their dead.

By letting it go, it becomes harder to be turned into the enemy.

I agree anger is sometimes a healthy thing. Look at MADD, they have turned their anger and heart ache into something that has helped so many.

But this today, was a reaction to this
http://gawker.com/unarmed-people-of-color-killed-by-police-1999-2014-1666672349

76 and that was for 5 years finishing last year.

This year has seen how many more, including the life of a young black woman Sandra Bland taken hours ago.
The cops are trying to pass it off as a suicide.The fact that she was arrested for such a minor infraction is all too common.

There was disruption, but it borne out of real, deep pain.

We weren't hurt today. We can let go of our anger.

then the Roma and GLBT community point out they were also targeted, it's a lack of empathy.

Got it.

What's seldom pointed out is that a very large number of uppity Slavs also died in the camps, mostly because they were Slavs.

Jewish lives matter.

GLBT and Roma lives matter a bit.

Oh, did others die, too? Well, that's nice.

And, in fact, that's how it works out. You talk about those groups' losses and then the total number killed in the camps, and some take it as diminishing their group's pain and suffering, their group's special identity. Lost in the landscape, they don't matter as much any more. And this is 70 years on, mind you.

It is more dangerous being AfAm or NatAm in the US than for other groups. Killings by police amount to a very small portion of the danger. That's most of what matters, however. Far more lives would be saved by a reduction of the homicide rate; even more lives than that would be saved by increasing high school graduation and college attendance rates.

Then I kept seeing 6 million Jews died. I asked, who were the other 6 million?

I remember learning that number did include, GLBT, Roma, the handicapped, the "anarchists". Wellmaybe notm LGBT because it was grade school and I don't remember if they wanted us to know about that.


No, we should remember the other 6 million specially for their being singled out to die a certain death, in certain places.
I said that if we just remember all 60 million who died, without rembering how certain groups were targeted in that number, we diminish the suffering of the camp victims.



And I am sorry I didn't use them as the example. But I wanted to use an example that on the whole, most readers would know about and would be able to see parallels to why it is important to remember the specifics.

And you are pointing out how their lives became to matter less perfectly.

BLM is a recognizing a number of individuals inside the larger pool of deaths by Police Brutality, inside the pool of an even larger number of Murders, inside a larger pool of number of unnatural deaths...

The history of humans.....

I don't have my poor little white feelings hurt but this starts to look and sound like a really nasty argument that everyone looses because at least one side is convinced, and refuses to acknowledge they may be wrong, and making demands rather than talking honestly in hopes of attaining understanding and real change. Pick a side, all sides do it but I'm seeing distraction at this point.

Nothing will be good enough unless it's done right now...fine, talk to the people of color that are in the White House, senate and congress...how about AG Eric Holder?

it should be seen as a credit to him that he recognizes this .

has responded to the outrage that resulted from her 'gaffe' yet.

I understand their point, they are correct that it is not TRUE that 'all lives matter'. How can anyone claim that when on a regular basis we see the killing of Blacks by Police with NO CONSEQUENCES.

And when the DOJ finished its 'investigation' and issued its 'report' that's all that happened.

Dem Govs, see Ferguson, sent out the National Guard to suppress the protests that erupted after the murder of Michael Brown. Time to get rid of that Gov imo.

Dem Mayors over the past year, have sent out the cops to suppress the protests that have been ONGOING over the past year.

What is wrong here? There really is a huge problem. The killing has continued no matter how many protests there have been. AND NOTHING HAS BEEN DONE to stop it.

So yes, to include other 'lives' in this shows that people still aren't getting it.

How to get the point across is the problem.does to

We can't say "all lives matter" because it's not a statement of fact as things stand now.

Well, so what? "Black Lives Matter" isn't a statement of fact as things stand now.

One's good, one's bad? Both are false.

Except that "black lives matter" is an assertion of morality that goes beyond current observation and is a statement of what should be.

That's how I view "all lives matter." That also says that the Latinos and whites and Asians that are wrongly killed also matter. Unarmed AfAms are killed at around twice the rate of whites? Fine--is it okay for them to be at equal rates? I think not; you may disagree, but then you really can't say "nobody should be wrongfully killed at the hands of the police."

In either case, it's not an observation on the current state of affairs, it's an assertion of morality that constitutes a statement of what should be. It's curious to those who view it this way that the spotlight shouldn't be shared, that it's not viewed as a common problem that's unevenly experienced but which shouldn't exist for any group in the first place.

I believe very strongly myself that ALL lives matter, and that black lives have been treated like they matter less, and that's a problem.

(But oh by the way, poor lives have been treated like they matter less also. Same for homeless lives. Neither of these as much as black lives. But I wish BLM would understand that it is not ONLY black lives that are devalued in our society, and when someone says "all lives matter" it really is about ALL lives, unless proven otherwise by the person's actions.)

I think the way O'Malley stated his apology - that he does believe that all lives matter, but that wasn't the place to say it - was very good.

I was going to say something very similar.

I watched both the candidates and CAme away with very different opinions on how this was handled by each.

O'Malley has the self awareness to say *I'm Sorry* and mean it. I really appreciate that.

...when the phrase was adopted by blacks protesting police brutality.

It's understandable there would be of offense taken when responding to black protests with that deflection.

To his credit, he didn't double down on it, he apologized mere hours later for the offense and corrected it.

Or if he were just trying to be inclusive to all the people since he would be the president of all of them.

so is saying he did not mean it in that way.

...but he evidently has some good advisers, given his unequivicol response.

More importantly I'm glad he stayed and talked to the protesters.

But the dude was taken back and didn't know how to react so I don't fault him too much.

Sure, we know that white lives matter. But there is an urgency that the power players must come to understand that black children are being gunned down in our country every day with impunity. With impunity. Some of us live in fear every day that this heartless violence will touch our own children, our own grandchildren one day. They are brilliant and funny and beautiful and gifted. And and I am frightened for them.

When you say white lives matter, too, of course that goes without saying. Because that goes without saying. And when you feel it necessary to say it, I think you haven't heard my fear at all.

Or GAY white lives and especially TRANSGENDER white lives.

Of course to be poor, homeless, transgender AND black - your life matters less than nothing in many places in this country.

I believe the worst discrimination is against blacks. But even if that discrimination disappeared, you would still have all these others.

I agree with O'Malley's apology. It wasn't the right place to say it. But with the right understanding and true inclusiveness, it is the attitude a US President has to have.

Let's keep talking past each other because it's so much fun and it's what we do.

The new invisible minority. That's the current dynamic in the debate, though.

They, too, are gunned down with impunity (and it's not every day, to be honest). "All lives matter" include those; it doesn't exclude those, nor does it exclude racial groups #4 and 5.

"Hearing"? Sure. Thinking that it deserves a separate solution? No.

I've heard these arguments before, but only a long time ago when Latinos and women were first being put under the affirmative action umbrella.

As well as #AllLivesMatter

It was to counter the message - deluding the issue and making it less about race than it truly is.

Of course all lives matter. White lives too. But the issue isn't about that - it's about how blacks are more likely than whites to be murdered.

It's too bad the forum tuned into a protest and didn't give him a chance to present his ideas.

There was too much misdirected and unreflective anger. O'Malley is not "the enemy."

In fact, O'Malley stood quietly, listened, and let the protestors vent their emotions. He was heroically patient.

O'Malley can handle criticism, and he learns from it. We will hear more in detail (position paper) from him about public safety and the justice system very soon.

realize how inappropriate it was for him to say what he said in that context, but I am sure he was just being clueless and not actually being dismissive of BLM.

when Democratic presidential candidates are forced to apologize for saying all lives matter.

An inoffensive and normally true statement can trigger painful emotions in others, especially if that statement has been exploited by the very people who have caused the most hurt. If "all lives matter" is used as a justification for ignoring injustice towards a minority, then the phrase itself becomes toxic. I believe that life is sacred; but, if I say I am "pro life," I run the risk of being lumped with those who defend fetuses, but oppose life in every other form. Republicans have done a "good job" of hijacking human language for their own pernicious and Orwellian purposes. In some right wing circles, the term "environmentalist" has come to mean "terrorist." We have to be attentive to potential misunderstanding in the words we use. Communication means paying attention to the experience and linguistic context of the other. That requires seeing things from another person's point of view and accommodating our use of language to get our message across without inciting unnecessary misunderstanding and anger. The things we say are opportunities to build or destroy bridges, so we have to take care in our choice of words.

All lives don't matter?

And I actually wish his apology had been more full throated. It sounds like he still doesn't know WHY he's apologizing, that he's just doing it because someone told him he needed to.

It is hard to focus and get your words straight, when you are under fire. A hostile audience catches you off guard and scrambles your thoughts, and even a normally thoughtful person like O'Malley gets tripped up. This has happened to me in the past, and I must admit that I did not handle it as graciously as O'Malley. O'Malley stayed for the interview and had a calmer venue for expressing his views. We will be hearing more from him (position paper) about social justice very soon. I look forward to reading it.

That he doesn't know WHY the BLM folks found 'All lives matter' offensive.

Was there a longer apology than just 'I apologize to anyone who was offended' (eta: my paraphrase of 'I meant no disrespect') that offered up any notion that he understood why they were offended?

Which is why I asked if there was more to it.

I am sometimes on a computer with speakers and sometimes not. Currently not, which makes watching videos rather pointless, since I'm not a lip reader.

Raine1967 posted it here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12811650#post5

I also posted it in this thread, and I am not sure anyone is bothering to watch it.

I cut him some slack because he was caught horribly off guard. But a genuine apology is a welcome step forward.

He and Sanders get this. Yes, NRN fucked up by allowing this to arise with support from two of their moderators. And the candidates responded as well as they could given the ambush.

Now, will BLM hold Clinton to the same standards? That will show me they are the real deal and not a shadow for something else.

He wasn't apologize for thinking or saying all lives matter. He was apologizing for not understanding how loaded that phrase is in response to BlackLivesMatter. He clearly gets it.

I also don't like the lumping together of O'Malley and Sanders. O'Malley stuck around and gave multiple interviews discussing criminal justice reform and the protest. He stuck around and was engaging with activists at NN until 11 pm. Sanders cut and ran. He cancelled events post-protest.

O'Malley is the candidate truly interested in engaging and learning about issues and having discussions. Hillary only wants to do that with her pre-screened, friendly crowds and Sanders apparently isn't up for any questioning of him. He reacted terribly yesterday.