Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

gobears10

(310 posts)
Sun Jul 19, 2015, 01:09 AM Jul 2015

Social Democratic Class Politics vs. New Left Identity Politics

Last edited Sun Jul 19, 2015, 02:42 AM - Edit history (3)

Traditionally, the term "progressive" has connoted a social democratic, class-based politics. It was a political perspective rooted in the socialist tradition of the early 19th and 20th century labor unions across Western Europe, Canada, the U.S. (Eugene Debs), and elsewhere. Over time, "progressives" moved away from anti-capitalism and become social democrats, working to reform capitalism while melding markets with robust safety nets. Old-school progressives wanted to unite the working class as a whole, to push for policies including collective bargaining protections, minimum wage laws, fair-trade deals, single-payer healthcare, affordable college, progressive taxation, public funding of elections, and more. Class solidarity was the primary goal.

However, "progressive" has come to connote a new term definition, especially among young people. As leftist movements across the developed world adopted neoliberal and corporatist Third-Way policies, "progressives" moved away from center-left and toward the center, and even often to the center-right on class issues. However, they still portrayed themselves as "leftist" by having a unique focus on politics of identity. Gay rights. Women's rights. Reproductive rights. While all of these issues are important in their own right, focusing too heavily on them and prioritizing them created an environment in which societies made much social progress, but they moved backward on economics. No longer in the U.S. is it controversial to support gay marriage: heck, even large corporations and Wall Street are fully supportive of LGBT rights and issues. But it's far, far harder in the U.S. to say "let's also raise taxes on the rich above 50%" or "let's enact medicare-for-all" or "let's make college tuition free" or "let's reign in on Wall Street." These issues are politically unpalatable, while social progressive stances are much more easier for our elected politicians to adopt, even on race-based issues.

What we're seeing now is a pretty ugly clash between the old school social democratic progressives and the new left identity politics progressives. True, identity politics and class solidarity aren't mutually exclusive, and it is important and necessary to reconcile them. No good modern leftist is a class reductionist who believes LGBT rights is a "minor" issue, or that criminal justice reform is "insignificant." However, the problem is that there are too many "identity politics reductionists" in the "progressive movement." People are judged and reduced to their tangible identities: their race, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, ethnicity, visible disability status, religion, and so on. All that matters is whether someone is a white male, for example. That is enough to discount to what they are saying, even if they have a genuinely important agenda. Class issues are almost completely downplayed: poor or impoverished white people are often not viewed as needy of help. I've heard people say that "homeless white people don't need assistance because homeless PoC have it worse." In my view, that mentality is wrong. Oppression olympics is wrong.

Extreme adherents of radical identity politics argue that the problems in society are inherently caused by white cisgender heterosexual males. Every single event and action by white men, even if they are progressive, is seen through the lens of power relationships or "privilege." These radical leftist ideologies are in fact very counter-productive because they divide people, and are hostile to whites joining social justice movements to show solidarity with PoC. Radical identity politics leftists say white progressive "allies" often "invade space," "derail conversations," and "aren't critical enough." They claim white people can't ever understand the struggle of PoC, or ever empathize, or ever be good. There is some truth to this, but radicals crank it up to the extreme. To say that Bernie as an old white male cannot want equality for someone else and offer his support and help in an active manner is... not anywhere close to equality. In believing that white people can't truly care about social justice, racial justice, or economic justice, these radical identity politics leftists are the ones being bigoted toward white people. And I'm saying this as a person of color who has been in progressive activist circles.

I'm not white. I'm South Asian: I immigrated from India to the U.S. as a child. I'm 22 years old, and was active in campus politics at UC Berkeley. And I've been around these radical identity politics leftists. They praise MLK and Malcolm X, but ignore how Malcolm X changed his views toward progressive whites after the Hajj. Many of them are voting for Hillary solely because she is a woman, and because they feel our society is characterized by systemic patriarchy. While it is important to break down glass ceilings and to effect gender equality, and I'd love to see the first female president, I think other issues and policy stances are important too. I think it's also demeaning to Hillary to vote for her simply due to her gender. I've met a lot of well-meaning, genuinely progressive white allies throughout my life, and I think it's horrible to portray them as the enemy when we all need to come together to make a more equal society.

It's viewed as a deficiency of Bernie's that he's focusing his agenda on economic populism, that he's not talking enough about race, gender, or other topics. But that's missing the point. Sure Hillary Clinton gave speeches on mass incarceration, white privilege, immigration reform, and other important social justice topics. But she's not calling for reinstating Glass-Steagall, single-payer healthcare, raising the minimum wage to $15, or other important economic policies. She's not focusing on overturning Citizens United, tackling the top 1%, etc. That's because the billionaire class holds the true political power in the U.S., and the billionaires (Wall Street, the Koch Brothers, etc.) are the root of our evils.

It's much harder to advocate for economic populism than it is to call for social justice on other topics. Economic injustice also exacerbates systemic racism, sexism, etc., and we can't eliminate racism without economic reforms. No one in the Democratic Party establishment is talking about economic injustice, or eliminating poverty. Only Bernie.

Bernie's talking about the issues he's talking about because they have been ignored and dismissed as "fringe" for so long, ever since LBJ's "War on Poverty" since the 1960s. Economic justice is one the most important issues that have been neglected in the U.S., and of course it makes sense for Bernie to make it the center of his campaign. When rural, socially conservative states are backing higher minimum wages, support protecting entitlement programs, and support collective bargaining, that shows they aren't supporting the GOP due to an agreement over pro-business economic policies. Sanders is tapping into a nascent economic populism in the country, and in my view, it is important to make that the central topic of the 2016 Presidential Election. It is actually a deficiency that the rest of political establishment has ignored economics for far too long. And it happens to be the fact that Bernie's policies would mostly affect poor people of color given that minority communities have been hit the hardest by wealth and income inequality, poverty, unemployment, poor education, and low social mobility.

Like Bernie was saying in Iowa the other day, we can't divide ourselves by gender, sexuality, and race. But that's exactly what the hecklers earlier today in Arizona want to do, as they chanted "what side are you on," and spewed profanities. Sanders, in contrast, has the ideology that all poor and working class people, regardless of race, should unite in a broad movement. And he says the problems in society can be traced to the billionaire class' stranglehold on government. It is a populism based on economic class, rather than ethnic or racial identity, and I think it is a much more workable leftism and and has a better shot at building a genuine grassroots movement.

30 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Social Democratic Class Politics vs. New Left Identity Politics (Original Post) gobears10 Jul 2015 OP
Very well thought out and expressed. mmonk Jul 2015 #1
ty!! gobears10 Jul 2015 #2
I really do think artislife Jul 2015 #3
bernie's always felt economic justice and racial justice are intertwined... gobears10 Jul 2015 #26
No. Race does matter. We can't pretend it does not matter. Cheese Sandwich Jul 2015 #4
I support inclusive progressivism... gobears10 Jul 2015 #5
Can you explain to me how free college solves the problem of police murdering black people? Cheese Sandwich Jul 2015 #6
not my point... gobears10 Jul 2015 #7
I pretty much agree with your ideas here but the political strategy is what concerns me Cheese Sandwich Jul 2015 #9
dialogue... gobears10 Jul 2015 #14
Did you see in the video that Bernie WAS talking about the criminal injustices... madfloridian Jul 2015 #22
What is your solution to police murdering black people? snagglepuss Jul 2015 #8
Free college would help. Cheese Sandwich Jul 2015 #15
good post gobears10 Jul 2015 #16
Thank you for those words. n/t Betty Karlson Jul 2015 #19
Good answer. But in another thread a poster suggested that much of this is not in the hands of jwirr Jul 2015 #28
You're right jwirr, it is complicated Cheese Sandwich Jul 2015 #29
Absolutely. In our community every park has some type of equipment setting there for the kids jwirr Jul 2015 #30
Yes race does matter artislife Jul 2015 #12
You are entirely correct. But so is Mr. Sanders. Betty Karlson Jul 2015 #18
Because it's a tactic. seabeckind Jul 2015 #20
Divide and rule? Betty Karlson Jul 2015 #23
gobears... catnhatnh Jul 2015 #10
K&R. Great post. WIProgressive88 Jul 2015 #11
Every slimeball in the 1% gives thanks to the day when the notion of white privilege came into snagglepuss Jul 2015 #13
definitely... gobears10 Jul 2015 #25
Raising taxes on the rich was never considered to be to the "left".... Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2015 #17
This is outstanding PDittie Jul 2015 #21
I'm genuinely torn here starroute Jul 2015 #24
Welcome to DU PowerToThePeople Jul 2015 #27

mmonk

(52,589 posts)
1. Very well thought out and expressed.
Sun Jul 19, 2015, 01:15 AM
Jul 2015

When NC went from backwoods to a modern society, it was done through fusion politics (poor people both from white and non white backgrounds in conjunction with forward thinking people joining together).

 

artislife

(9,497 posts)
3. I really do think
Sun Jul 19, 2015, 01:31 AM
Jul 2015

That Bernie sees himself in the downtrodden.

The downtrodden is made up by individuals who suffer from different societal ailments. He wants to lift them all.

I am not sure how he views himself as an individual and that may be the key to why he isn't parsing out groups of people. He sees the connection to the same on a deep level, no matter how we arrive there.

 

Cheese Sandwich

(9,086 posts)
4. No. Race does matter. We can't pretend it does not matter.
Sun Jul 19, 2015, 01:37 AM
Jul 2015

This country was founded on capitalism, racism, and genocide. They are all ongoing.

Police departments target black people. Courts too.

I agree we should have a class based, class aligned politics. We should take on the 1% and end their power.

But our new politics must be designed to win. That means looking around, seeing what the groups are, where the grass roots power and energy is, and then representing those movements if they are consistent with the progressive goals and vision.

There will never be a progressive or revolutionary transformation in America unless we have a movement with black people at it's core.

#blackLivesMatter is a movement for justice and equality. Any broad movement of the progressive left that seeks a political revolution or progressive transformation should work in concert with the modern grass roots civil rights struggles.

gobears10

(310 posts)
5. I support inclusive progressivism...
Sun Jul 19, 2015, 01:45 AM
Jul 2015

Last edited Thu Jul 23, 2015, 03:48 AM - Edit history (3)

But I don't understand how this is going to work. BLM wants to protest all the candidates, and wants to shut down every presidential debate.

Black Lives Matter had an excellent opportunity for constructive dialog that they blew. Treating allies like enemies doesn't leave you many allies. Would they, should they, tolerate similar attempts to stifle their own dialogue?

Systemic racism is an important issue, and I hope BLM can find better leadership to pursue the cause. Code Pink slamming Condi is one thing, same with AIDS activists condemning Reagan, but this group taking their frustrations out on Bernie Sanders is BULLSHIT.

Bernie, who was a Civil Rights Activist in the 1960s to fight anti-black oppression. Bernie, who marched with MLK in 1963 and witnessed his "I Had a Dream" speech at the "March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom." Bernie who was a student organizer for the Congress of Racial Equality (CORE) and the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC). Bernie who coordinated sit-ins against racially segregated housing at the University of Chicago. Bernie who got arrested for civil disobedience, protesting racially segregated schools in Chicago.

Bernie who publicly denounced police brutality. Bernie who backed Jesse Jackson's 1988 run for POTUS, who opposed the tough on crime policies of the 1990s, who opposed the 1996 welfare reform that marginalized poor women of color. Who continues to oppose mass incarceration, the war on drugs, police militarization, police brutality, the death penalty, etc. He wants to stop incarcerating people and building more jails, he wants to build more schools. He wants to stop locking up people for non-violent crimes, and wants to look at our drug laws. He wants to put body cameras on police. He opposes mandatory minimums. He supports community policing. I assume he's against three-strikes laws, stop-and-frisk. He voted YES on funding for alternative sentencing instead of more prisons. He supports rehabilitation over punitive measures. He wants to lower recidivism. He's against putting hundreds of thousands of cops on the street. He wants to decriminalize marijuana consumption, and is looking at legalization.

He was the first POTUS to say Sandra Bland's name, and directly addressed systemic racism, and acknowledged that beyond economic reforms, more had to be done to specifically address institutional factors behind anti-black racism. He condemned the Sandra Bland video, talked about how police harass, assault, and kill people of color. He's in the right on the issue.

The real enemies are pro-tough on crime Democrats like Dianne Feinstein and establishment Republicans, not Bernie, the most progressive member in the U.S. Congress.

Martin O'Malley and Bernie Sanders both agree that there is a problem with race and with African American people being murdered in this country. Even when both candidates addressed the issue, the protesters continue to shout over them even before they had a chance to finish their points. For this reason I believe that disruption was the real goal of this group, not actual dialogue. Actual constructive and respectful dialogue between social justice activists and their natural political allies is what we need.

I just dislike how they argue that when Bernie talks about tuition-free college, it's not important to their cause or issues. Like economic populism won't help poor PoC the most.

gobears10

(310 posts)
7. not my point...
Sun Jul 19, 2015, 02:00 AM
Jul 2015

Look, there are instances of institutionalized racism independent of class. Our society is structured on systemic white privilege, cis-heteropatriarchy, unfettered capitalism, and other overlapping systems of oppression (kyriarchy).

You can be a rich black person and experience anti-black racism. Your class privilege doesn't cancel it out. For example, if you go to a high-end store, you could still have guards follow you around. Rich black people have also been arrested outside of their houses. White and non-black PoC clutch their bags in elevators around you, even if you are a wealthy black person. Moreover, Sandra Bland had a new job lined up and had a college degree. Racism is a problem that deserves attention in its own right.

Having said that, from an intersectional perspective, if you eliminate class-based oppression, you do blunt most of the suffering that plagues the African-American community. The catalyst for Baltimore was police brutality, but tell me that it wasn't important that the area had high levels of unemployment, poverty, poor education resources, low opportunities for upward mobility, and other class-related problems. Tell me that city zoning laws, property-tax financed public schools, single-parent homes, etc., aren't important in upward mobility. Tell me that healthcare, a lack of networking and connections, and avenues to college aren't extremely important. When the youth african american unemployment rate is 51%, tell me that that's not important. Affordable housing, minimum wages, jobs, education, etc., of course these are important, given that poverty causes more crime. With less crime, it'll be easier to call out cops for excessive use of force.

Class-based oppression intersects with racism to exacerbate racism. Much of racism is fundamentally rooted in unfettered capitalism, although there is racism independent of economics as well.

If we ended stop-and-frisk, put body cameras on police, legalized marijuana, addressed the discrepancies between crack and power cocaine in sentencing, the school to prison pipeline, the death penalty, mandatory minimum sentencing, broken window policing, mass incarceration, put in place civilian review boards, etc., then African-Americans would still face a horrible material situation and an overall low quality of life due to economic injustice. They could still suffer from predatory lending and wealth and income inequality (which affects them much more than whites). In my view, overall, economics is the driving factor behind the suffering of African-Americans, and in addition to economic injustice, we need to address police brutality, the drug war, societal attitudes about racism, white supremacist groups, and so on. Just that once you get rid of poverty, a lot of the issues that African-Americans face is more subtle than blatant.

My main problem is that some on the radical left claim that talking about college or healthcare isn't important to African-Americans or latinos when it definitely is.

 

Cheese Sandwich

(9,086 posts)
9. I pretty much agree with your ideas here but the political strategy is what concerns me
Sun Jul 19, 2015, 02:20 AM
Jul 2015

The description of the problem is right but what's the best strategy to get power and go forward?

If we start some internet feud between Bernie Sanders fans vs. black lives matter, that's a shitty strategy in my opinion.

BLM is a hashtag that represents a modern grassroots civil rights movement. I don't want to be part of any campaign unless that civil rights movement is also welcome. Their core issues are very simple: Police should stop murdering people and the court system should not have a racial bias. Many in the movement have more issues, but that is the core. Racial biases in the criminal justice system. If you want a broad-based, grass-roots progressive movement in the United States, and if you want to win, then you need blackLivesMatter at the core. But the main reason to support it is because it's just the right thing to do because black lives do matter.

Yes some people are too quick to use this as as political thing and they act like the economic side of things is not important. That's wrong too. We need both. Also I don't know what you think the radical left is supposed to be, but I don't think those are either radical nor left.

gobears10

(310 posts)
14. dialogue...
Sun Jul 19, 2015, 02:35 AM
Jul 2015

Let's sit down, talk to each other, figure out each other's priorities, and develop an inclusive progressive platform that aims to uplift everyone while also targeting systemic issues afflicting certain marginalized populations (anti-black racism, anti-trans violence, etc.). Have Bernie articulate why his economic populism is necessary for the African-American community and how he cares about racial justice. How Jesse Jackson and MLK also focused on poverty reduction as a practical, material way to alleviate the suffering of African-Americans. In turn, have the BlackLivesMatter articulate their concerns about police brutality, racial bias in the legal system, etc., and how they would like Bernie to be sensitive about the movement and speak for the movement.

I still think Bernie can and should make economic populism the central theme of his campaign. But he can tweak his message to show how it affects PoC more, and the unique economic challenges they face. While also stressing the non-economic racism faced by PoC. The BlackLivesMatter people in turn have to realize that Bernie isn't ignoring or sidelining them when he's talking about economic issues.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
22. Did you see in the video that Bernie WAS talking about the criminal injustices...
Sun Jul 19, 2015, 10:27 AM
Jul 2015

that's when he was really loudly shouted down.

He was saying what you would think the protestors wanted to hear...and they yelled louder.

Watch the video, and then do it again.

Candidates are not being allowed to get their message out when they are shouted down like that.

 

Cheese Sandwich

(9,086 posts)
15. Free college would help.
Sun Jul 19, 2015, 02:40 AM
Jul 2015

More money and jobs would help too. The economic system and class inequality is a root cause of police violence.

But a presidential candidate would have to explain that by connecting the dots. It's not good enough to answer a question about police brutality by quoting statistics about high unemployment. It might even be partly true but it's a political fail.

The president can also maybe use the justice department to crack down on racial bias of cops and courts. Demilitarize the cops. Body cameras. Community control of police. Stuff like that.

Personally I'm a socialist so I want a lot more community control of the economy with real democracy and full employment where basic needs are met. Basically address the root causes of crime to reduce the need or excuse for so much police.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
28. Good answer. But in another thread a poster suggested that much of this is not in the hands of
Sun Jul 19, 2015, 08:37 PM
Jul 2015

the federal government. For instance the power of the prosecutor is a state thing because it is an elected office. I think it is even worse than that. Often who gets hired is in the hands of the town or city. And as we saw in Ferguson MO that is a matter of who gets elected. And who is allowed to vote.

And this is all governed by the Constitution. The division of powers between the federal government and the state government. I think that we have to be working from both the top and the bottom to make these changes. The feds have to do what they can and voters have to do the same.

If this is the case this is a very complicated issue. I am not sure anyone even knows how to go about changing it.

 

Cheese Sandwich

(9,086 posts)
29. You're right jwirr, it is complicated
Sun Jul 19, 2015, 09:11 PM
Jul 2015

I think part of the answer has to be empowering communities with full employement, real democracy, and community control of cops.

There are a lot of other things that can be done too, like stop giving military weapons to cops. Even though it's probably too late since it's all pretty much given already. Maybe we can talk about getting it back.

A big issue we face is the corruption in the entire system, not just cops. So like courts, lawyers and prisons.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
30. Absolutely. In our community every park has some type of equipment setting there for the kids
Sun Jul 19, 2015, 09:42 PM
Jul 2015

to climb on. In one park we have a huge train engine from WWII era. It no longer works but the children love it. In another we have some kind of rocket launcher. Some parks have tanks and even airplanes or a warship. What we have to do with that junk from the military is disable it and set it in some park for the kids to climb on. Get rid of it the way we used to get rid of the junk from our wars.

And the jobs programs are needed all over the country. When I was working out on one of the reservations we were discussing poverty and the talk turned to the jobs in the CCC camps and other programs from the FDR years. One of the tribal elders said: The recovery from the Great Depression never reached the reservation. I think that is very true of the inner cities and rural black communities as well.

Not only are these communities dealing with slavery and wars in their past - even when we should have known better the programs did not reach them. I wish I could ask that elder why not but it is too late to ask him now. Most of the elders who would know are gone.

As to the corruption - I have a hard time adjusting to all the corruption not only in our country but throughout the world. It is as if all the ethics classes are telling all their students - don't worry there are no rules.



 

artislife

(9,497 posts)
12. Yes race does matter
Sun Jul 19, 2015, 02:27 AM
Jul 2015

I just am trying to understand Bernie, because though he has a great history of working with civil rights, he almost acts like it is a given that minorities suffer more. What he doesn't seem to get, is that there is a large population that refuses to acknowledge it.

I hope I am clear on what I mean.

It's like he is 5 steps further but doesn't realize that the country on the whole, is 5 steps behind.

 

Betty Karlson

(7,231 posts)
18. You are entirely correct. But so is Mr. Sanders.
Sun Jul 19, 2015, 03:39 AM
Jul 2015

There will never be a progressive or revolutionary transformation in America unless we have a movement with black people at it's core.

True.

There will never be a progressive transformation unless we address the systemic economic injustice, where whole groups of people are deliberately predestined for exploitable poverty.

Also true.

There are two manifestations of the same problem. Why do so many believe that economic justice and an end to systemic racism are opposing views / opposing goals?

seabeckind

(1,957 posts)
20. Because it's a tactic.
Sun Jul 19, 2015, 08:03 AM
Jul 2015

To justify the status quo economic policies.

It's the privileged class seeing a threat and in order to counter it they will get us fighting each other while they walk away with the prize.

 

Betty Karlson

(7,231 posts)
23. Divide and rule?
Sun Jul 19, 2015, 10:52 AM
Jul 2015

That old poison again...

But if you will forgive this addition / edit, please answer this question:

how on earth did "they" manage to divide us this time? Who started which meme and how on earth was anyone susceptible to it?

catnhatnh

(8,976 posts)
10. gobears...
Sun Jul 19, 2015, 02:22 AM
Jul 2015

I think you have a real future here. I have seldom see a poster so cogently reply while facing criticisms. Free college doesn't "fix" racism but joined to economic opportunity a larger non-white segment of a growing middle class means any police misconduct towards a non-white faces a greater chance of being directed against an educated person more fully capable of having the resources to use the justice systems to their advantage. The sneaky heart deep racism that so many of us engage in can only be defeated by full class integration. My example would be the Irish joining police forces and becoming politicians. At some point we weren't just "paddys" anymore.

snagglepuss

(12,704 posts)
13. Every slimeball in the 1% gives thanks to the day when the notion of white privilege came into
Sun Jul 19, 2015, 02:31 AM
Jul 2015

common parlance as it cements the status quo by ensuring whites and PoC never come together to change Capitalism and that goes for those in the 1% who are PoC. In fact the people of color who inhabit the 1% ie South Asian, Arab, Chinese etc must think they are in heaven as whites have all the privilege. It's would be laughable if the world it wasn't in such dire straits.


ANd btw your OP is brilliant. Bookmarked,

gobears10

(310 posts)
25. definitely...
Sun Jul 19, 2015, 02:26 PM
Jul 2015

As an Indian-American who grew up in an upper middle class family, I definitely had a lot more financial and economic resources and opportunities for mobility and education than many white people who are low-income. I consider myself much more privileged than poor white people overall, despite being a PoC.

Anyway, regarding my thoughts on BLM: keep calling our candidates racist. Keep shouting them down without allowing them to speak. There will be no winners at all then. The Netroots Nation seems mostly pleased with all of it at their twitter feed. Boy, they sure did a crappy job of crowd control. Seemed like everyone wanted to hear themselves talk instead of the candidates. The moderator didn't want to intervene because he didn't want to silence the voices of people of color (esp women of color) in the room. But just because you are part of a structurally marginalized group doesn't give you leeway to act however you want without any consequences: disruptions that interfere with the exchange of ideas should have been shut down by the moderator.

They hijacked the 2 most progressive candidates. I don't see what good it will do: Hillary will benefit from this, and she has supported pro-incarceration policies in the past.

Manners lesson 101: DON'T shout down people who agree with you.

And the #BlackLivesMatter co-founder warned presidential candidates: "We will shut down every single debate."
(Source: http://www.rawstory.com/2015/07/blacklivesmatter-co-founder-warns-presidential-candidates-we-will-shut-down-every-single-debate/)

the fact that Sanders' civil rights work grants him zero leeway proves to me that the Black Lives Matter folks do not give a hoot about the past of the civil rights movement. they remind of extremists that would prefer to torpedo something entirely even if it would help their communities, just because it would help someone else more.








 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
17. Raising taxes on the rich was never considered to be to the "left"....
Sun Jul 19, 2015, 03:30 AM
Jul 2015

It wasn't until "tax cuts for the rich" became a mantra of the right under Reagan.

Look at Eisenhower.

Ike wanted to CAP wages by taxing at 100% over a certain amount to pay for World War Two.

Dubya did tax cuts for the rich during Two Wars.

starroute

(12,977 posts)
24. I'm genuinely torn here
Sun Jul 19, 2015, 12:18 PM
Jul 2015

In my mind, the overarching problem is capitalism, which devalues human life and the natural world by putting a dollar sign on everything.

Over the last century, the capitalist system has proved remarkably adept at protecting itself by methods ranging from direct repression (as in the fascist societies of the mid-20th century) to cosmetic reforms and half-hearted gestures towards inclusiveness.

Identity politics didn't come out of a vacuum. It rose in response to McCarthyism, which made being openly anti-capitalist a nearly suicidal act, along with the unions and much of the white working class buying into the system and becoming politically conservative. And it flowered during the Reagan years as a coded method of uttering unpalatable truths.

The best thing about Black Lives Matter is that it rallies the most disenfranchised members of society -- poor black people -- who have nothing to lose by telling home truths about the system. But its greatest weakness is that it reduces those truths to the single fact of racial exclusion. It suggests, for example, that mass incarceration is primarily a racial problem while overlooking the fact that it prospers because it provides a handy source of near-slave labor for capitalistic industries.

On the other hand, economic populism is also hobbled by its attachment to a laundry list of progressive reforms -- more equality of opportunity, setting things back to the way they were 50 years ago, taxing the rich to upgrade our infrastructure -- that do nothing to address the innate brutality and spiritual hollowness of the capitalist system itself.

And I find it very hard to see how the "make life better for everyone" agenda of economic populism matches up with the "we're all going to have to get by on less" imperative of global warming.

So there are many pieces to the puzzle. We haven't yet figured out how to make them all fit together. And under those conditions, saying "A but not B" or "B is a subset of A that will take care of itself" seems premature.

Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»2016 Postmortem»Social Democratic Class P...