2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumOn NRN - This is what MLK had to say about similar schisms between Democrats during the late 1960s
Martin Luther King, Jr. delivered one of his most important speeches, "A Time to Break Silence," at Riverside Church, New York City, on April 4, 1967. It was a statement against war in principle, that followed Dr. King's "Letter from Birmingham City Jail," published four years earlier, his statement against social injustice in principle.
Dr. King explained why he was joining with the most progressive wing of the Democratic Party against Johnson's War in Vietnam, and why he was abandoning the Civil Rights-only focus that had up until then been the strategy of most mainstream AA leaders:
I hope you can see what is happening today in the context of the often bitter political struggles of half a century ago, and the similar questions of tactics and principles. I remember these issues and the divisive smears that were used against the anti-war movement back then. One was the oft-repeated slam that the anti-war movement was a "white" movement. This was directed at AAs - a warning not to alienate the "Cold War liberals" in the Johnson Administration who some AA leaders still saw as their natural allies. I think there are many parallels with the dilemma that some AAs feel today about whether to align with the progressives, the Sanders campaign in particular, or whether to continue to side with the more established centrist, pro-war HRC wing. As Dr. King decided, anti-war and progressive economics are Civil Rights issues.
Do not mistake my criticism of the "Bernie doesn't care about minorities meme" for any dismissal of AA concerns. Just the opposite is true. I take a longer view, and stand with Dr. King, who took a stand with progressives against the RW wing of the Democratic party over issues of war and economic injustice. I am a progressive, as is Sen. Sanders.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)and how he changed (in their mind) from protesting racism to protesting what they really care about (economics).
I wonder if they know that we study our history more than they do and we know Dr King would have been right there saying 'Black Lives Matter'. I know it's hard for some people to say 'Black lives Matter', it upset them that the atrention is going to black people and racism.
All these lectures about Dr. king are terribly patronizing and show a complete lack of understanding and empathy towards our community. I wish people would tell their friends not to lecture black people about black history and civil rights and let them know it's paternalistic and patronizing and makes black people not interested in their candidate since the candidates supporters are so patronizing and paternalistic and talk down to black folks.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)I personally remember these issues and events, and it is hardly "patronizing" to recall them. I think you are saying, rhetorically without really believing it, is the patronizing message that groups of people can only speak to their own issues. Whites can talk about white people ... and so forth. I think Dr. King would surely disagree with you.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Try it. Say it. Black Lives Matter. It's easy.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)of the individuals involved in this incident. Bernie Sanders did not cause this injustice. He's part of the solution. Go after the real source of the problem - those who perpetuate war and economic injustice, which are Civil Rights issues.
Black Lives Matter.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)leveymg
(36,418 posts)You just might need him.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)of the individuals involved in this incident. Bernie Sanders did not cause this injustice. He's part of the solution. Go after the real source of the problem - those who perpetuate war and economic injustice, which are Civil Rights issues.
Black Lives Matter.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)Here's your chance. Let me have it.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)is NOT going against those that promote war or economic injustice.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)Please clarify that a bit.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)The problem is progressives that insist that solving economic injustice is the solution to PoC's problems in America. That is what BLM said in that moment, and WHY they addressed it a NRN.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)I agree by the way that if PoC had the same money, education, and economic status, they would still be pulled over for Breathing While Black. Racism hasn't gone away, particularly among lower-status, less educated whites, which describes most cops. Is racism dead at the top - an honest answer to that is no. Even lawyers and bankers and doctors, of all races, are still afflicted on some level by this disease. Is it getting better or worse? Better, my kid's generation is far less color afflicted in their personal relations.
But, I still think economic justice is the place to concentrate, at least on the policy level. What do you think?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I am not going to repeat myself again.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)The fact that you can or will not explain your reasoning explains a lot.
Nice chatting with you this afternoon. Take care. n/t
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Ask anyone on this site what I stand for ... they don't seem to have a problem hearing me.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Hydra
(14,459 posts)I think all of the issues plaguing us are related and have a common root. The divisiveness I've seeing here looks like it's coming from a group of people who are attempting to stifle progress while wearing the colors of firebrands.
Someone pointed out yesterday that economic equality is as important as racial equality- if you just have one, then you're going to get nailed by the other. Equal rights, equal access, equal voice, equal economics.
Maybe this is a climbing the flagpole moment? We'll just have to see.
villager
(26,001 posts)...struggles.
There may be moments, strategies, openings, where one set of issues is more pressing, solutions more necessarily imminent.
But as you point out, they are ultimately, finally, intertwined (just as getting to the root of our impending destruction of the biosphere --which will discriminate not a bit on whose lives are disrupted -- is also intertwined with remaking economies...)
Hydra
(14,459 posts)The problem is that some activists truly believe that this is not a common struggle. I think it's rooted in how far they think the change needs to go. Some African Americans were insulted that the LBGT community wanted to use their arguments for equal treatment. Some of the traditionally minded LBGTs that benefited from the SCOTUS decision decried it when Polys like myself were in line next.
We're all in this together- as long as any of us are not equal, none of us are equal. There are times when issues can and should take precedence- The Flagpole moment, the shift in the framing of SSM from marriage to human rights, Snowden leaking the NSA data...BLM could be one of those moments, but we'll just have to see.
villager
(26,001 posts)I just hope it's not going to work again now .
MisterP
(23,730 posts)or is it just the old party loyalty? it's not like Sanders has been conspicuously ignoring race
Progressives are mostly for inclusion and tearing walls down. This seems to have a different thrust.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)until everyone just associates "progressives" and "race problem": ditto OKC, Utøya, or Gemanwings--for up to a week the speculation was all like "Muslims? maybe Muslims. shows Muslim 'characteristics.' the Muslims are coming for your children anyway and the liberals are letting them! it'll be Muslims next time. we can't say whether it was Muslims yet. Muslims have been ruled out." and afterwards weedy science-lovers/Scandinavians/religiously vague airline pilots didn't get a smidge of suspicion in the media or their daily lives
and Tweeting "'White ProgressivesTM' are gonna learn today" is ABSOLUTELY playing this game (and the subsequent Tweets)
Hydra
(14,459 posts)That showed the Grand Ol' Perverts were screwed in the realms of minority votes. Not that I think they set this up, but it's awfully convenient.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)the 1976 election was divided almost perfectly along the 100th meridian; 1980 Reagan forged a sturdier new party that was definitively run by the right wing, and the Dems bobbed toward the left; after 1988's squeaker the DLC was created figuring that 1. the party needed money and 2. Mondale and Dukakis had been too lefty and lost for it; by 1994 we get NAFTA and the Dixiecrats' massive defection to the GOP, starting the Republicans' right-populist "crazy era"--plenty of theocrat-speak but mostly appealing to voters by saying America's being taxed to death, with the Weickers and Jeffordses departing; the Dems rallied around Clinton because of his disgusting treatment and any complaints about his continued neoliberal bills were just sour grapes; the 00s' story we all already know
but we might be seeing a whole new "party system" emerging, like the one prevailing from Pierce to Cleveland or from McKinley to Coolidge, a realignment much greater than adding or dropping regions (like after WWII)
the GOP's base is literally dying out, and there's no young Baggers, brown-suited floor traders, Randroids, or theocrats atremble with fanaticism to bring in fresh blood like in 1978/80; they can't rile them up any longer and Jeb's already wooing the richer Latinos
at the same time the Dems are a joke, pushing yesterday's GOP policies and taking today's and filing the serial numbers off: Clinton's had some praiseworthy social-liberal positions (sometimes without checking the polls first!), but she represents everything the party's become, a conservative machine that spends its time blaming the left every other week via a myriad of loyalist foot soldiers, that's set up to carefully corral the voters and keep their demands for peace and jobs well inside the "veal pen," that neatly blocks any real primary threat to corporatism, that woos CEOs in exchange for contributions; her foreign policy is worthy of Cheney (heck, she voted for Cheney's FP!) and dragging the media along like they're capelin: it's machine politics without the results
Hydra
(14,459 posts)And yes, something is going to have to give- the GOP has no bodies, the DLC is taking their place, and 50% of the country doesn't vote at all.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)well, that and "identify a problem and then try to fix it" instead of "clap harder and harder or Tinkerbell will DIE!"
leveymg
(36,418 posts)this race, and both Hillary and Jeb are fatally afflicted by them. http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251452687 In the end, Obama had it right when he observed in 2008,
"I think Sen. Clinton starts off with 47 percent of the country against her. That's a hard place to start if you want to win the election," he said.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)changing demographics. We are getting browner. And it is clear that Milton Friedman politics no longer work for 99% of us. We have also seen groups like Occupy and BLM break out of the process and established their own power. The millennial age voters have also begun to establish themselves. We are not afraid to look at new different kinds of leaders.
Most of us are disillusioned with politics as usual and we are moving away from the ideas of the last 30+ years brought to us by the GOP and right leaning Democrats. And for many of us there is a new enemy in town Multi-national corporations and their bought and paid for politicians.
We also have new problems like climate change, outsourcing, wealth inequality, etc. But at the same time we still have some of the old problems such as poverty, racism which includes police violence and mass incarceration and lack upward mobility. Capitalism is even being called into question. So there is a firm basis for either a new party or a new kind of Democratic party. I would hope that we just transform this party into our new party. If the tea party can do it we can do it. But nothing will happen without unity.
But I guess that issue will wait. First we have to elect a Democratic Senate, a new president and fill the SCOTUS with good people.