eom

at work, the more determined I am that we won't need to hold any noses to vote from now on, WE will choose the candidates we want and so far, we are doing pretty good wrt to this race!

eom

the candidates are. I know that some don't care. They like to be taken care of by the wealthy.

Sen Sanders does not represent the billionaires, he represents the people. That's very scary to some. "Actually let the people have control instead of the oligarchy?"

Dare to stand up against the tyranny of the oligarchy.

in the face of lies and intimidation from bullies and liars and we are going to see plenty of that over the next year.

They have billions to spend on nasty campaign dirty tricks, we have the truth to quash the lies with.

And there are going to be millions of us, so I hope they are prepared, this will not be like other campaigns where Dems did not fight back, they are going to have a real fight on their hands against the lies, the smears, the deceptions, and I don't much care about the whining anymore.

That's why I fear for Sen Sander's safety. That would be the easiest way to neutralize us is to compromise him in some way.

But on the other hand, this movement is bigger than Sen Sanders and would continue even if they manage to neutralize him. This is a world wide movement. Goldman-Sachs made millions on the financial disaster in Greece. The battle lines are being drawn. Sad to see those here on this supposedly "politically liberal" message board, side with the oligarchs. Sad but not surprising. These are authoritarians that need to follow a strong leader whether they are honest or not. They are willing to give up their freedoms and liberties for a "promise" of security. And I am ashamed that they call themselves Democrats.

did for the Left. We were rolled over. The advantage we now have is that the entire climate has changed, and what they took as 'weakness' was no such thing, it was US not understanding the ruthlessness of those who have so much to lose once the people wake up.

In a way I like that they are so out of touch with the changes that have taken place, let them operate as if we were still living in the 'fifties.

A whole new generation, a very large voting bloc, has entered the equation and they are not at all happy with the 'way things are'.

And they never should have mistaken thoughtfulness with weakness, but that's not our problem that is theirs.

I think it's fair for me to say that because I am one. The BB's parents experienced the depression first hand and were skeptical of those that came along after the FDR reforms and wanted to sell pigs in pokes. But the BB grew up with the Cleaver family and experienced relative comfort. They (we) got soft and complacent. We woke up some when our government started killing us, wounding us, spraying us with cancer-causing chemicals, and giving us PTSD in Vietnam for nothing other than enriching the Arms Industry. But even then we only went so far. And I think the coup de grace came when Clinton, a Democrat, a man that some admire so much for his smile that they would make him king, signed away Glass-Steagall, the death blow to our middle and lower classes. FDR reforms were dead and long live the corruption and tyranny that will follow. The hope is with younger generations that are feeling the pain the most. Maybe they will recognize that it's way past time to throw out the Oligarchy and their puppet politicians.

Most of us never had Cleaver family comfort. Maybe you did, but if so, you were not the norm. Yes, a lot of us came from working families protected by unions. That meant we had just enough. There was never much left over.

You seem to skip the whole civil rights era. You say nothing about the Cold War, the space race, the deaths by assassination of all our idols. ALL the FDR reforms are dead? Social Security?

And of course, Clinton was the overriding villain of an entire generation. Where did you study history? Your post is, I repeat, ridiculous and lacking in any serious content.

The fix is in, the wealth class has their Citizens United and their favorite Democrats and Republicans.

If we stick with the current leading candidate, IMHO, they will be happy with it.

We might think that we've won, but on so many important matters we will have lost.

These are the matters that Sanders has been fighting to defend for his entire career.

I wish I could find the OP that talked about how we're screwn either way, the fix is in.

Grrrrr.

They will try anything to stop him. He told us he will need a movement of millions of people to help him do what needs to be done. He can't do it alone, no one can.

He is keeping his part of the bargain, and we need to do what needs to be done to get the army he needs to begin the process of fixing what they are destroying.

He tells us we do have the power, IF we use it. I find that encouraging, because sometimes I think there is no hope of overcoming the power structure they have built.

But I'm taking his word, he knows more than we do about this.

Biden btw, pretty much said the same thing last week, about the money in politics and how we have to fight it and he said, as Bernie has, that we DO have the power to do so.

It almost sounded like an endorsement of Bernie. I wrote on OP about it and wondered if he too is warning us.

I was so upset to not be able to attend Bernie's rally in Dallas this afternoon. It was 10 minutes from my house. I'm recovering from a mild heart attack and my family is forbidding me from engaging in anything political in nature (I am posting on the sly).

This could very well be my last presidential election and I will not compromise my vote.

One thing I can say for sure about Bernie's candidacy and members of this board --- My admiration for some members grows as I lose all respect for others.

Go Bernie.

We need every non-Republican we can muster in Texas. Please stick around! (I had a mild heart attack a few years ago. The people on Walnut Hill lane were top rate, and patched me up pretty well).

discussion if even you did it on the sly. Please avoid some very nasty, disgusting op's about our candidate.. looking pretty much like an orchestrated ratf&&k style smear job ... smells likeit anyway. I almost let it get my blood pressure through the roof.

I agree, life is too short, but we still give a damn!

By not taking things personally, focusing on what he represents by his actions and words.

Mental note to self: Bernie himself is a good model in how to handle the onslaught.

and tries desperately to avoid talking about issues.

That is what we have been witnessing, and shamefully right here on a dem forum.

In the past good Dems were destroyed by these tactics, often because they didn't respond quickly enough and forcefully enough.

That isn't going to happen to Bernie. He has an army of volunteers none of whom NEED to be paid, to expose these tactics and lies as soon as they rear their ugly heads. We have the entire Social Media to make their lies infamous and to take them and use them to show how badly we need to get the money out of politics.

But there is no way Bernie's supporters are going to allow liars and deceivers to try to stop him from running his campaign free of these notorious by now, rovian tactics.

Maybe they will learn that it might be best to just talk about the positives of their own candidate.

who are going to spread it around and stamp out the lies paid for with those Corporate donations.

Otherwise, he would simply be on the ignore list.

It's just a war of words. And most of them are lies

Us and Them

I came here precisely to say that. They’re all scared.

In other words, more people are likely to not vote for her.

She may lose when the time comes and a lot of people -- including a quarter or more of progressive Democrats -- simply can not vote for her. She's headed in that direction, but it's not too late for Democrats to do what we did quite sensibly in 2008 when she had the same problem. We found another candidate. See, http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251452687

Go Bernie Go!

She is the repug's only chance!

They know the idiots in the clown car are worthless, so HRC is all they have.

other than Bernie been described that way?

doesn't he?

And it's going to get uglier as their numbers plummet and Bernie's soars. The "Bernie is a racist" trope is just too precious.

next lie.

numbers WILL plummet. I'm hoping the finally give up and just talk about their own candidate. It's odd but they don't do much of that I've noticed.

She's got a past that they're desperately trying to ignore and/or run from and/or lie about but it's not going to work this time. Hell, it didn't work last time and their sore losers were HORRIBLE to Obama and I say that as an Obama critic.

are the hypocrites who tore her to pieces the last go around (they know who they are) and are now so smugly on board.

the candidate I though would be best for this country. No need to tear anyone to pieces imo, just don't vote for someone who doesn't represent you.

I have noticed nothing specific about Clinton's policies - only that she is leading the polls, and offering nothing but content-free fluff to the 99% and serious policy positions to the 1%.

Next thing you know, by sheer coincidence I'm sure, his first debate question will be "Why don't you care about black people?"

I hope I'm wrong!

Chuckie Toad when he tried to get him to play the game but he ended up not knowing what to do after making several attempts to stay with the 'script'.

It will be a fun to watch actually.

socialism and class struggle 50 years ago, ie he's out of date. Of course, because we don't have any economic and wealth disparity here, everything's humming along just fine in the US. Not!

And it's no accident. It brushes over his entire career, because it's necessary to do so.

Last edited Mon Jul 20, 2015, 01:33 AM - Edit history (1)

everywhere including deep RED AZ last night. Ha! Bernie's only expected to do well in progressive cities like Madison, WI and Portland, ME. But inroads into the Southwest are happening now, like Houston coming up, expected thousands.
In watching last night's Phoenix event video here, that enthusiastic crowd of 11,000+, behind and around Bernie during his tremendous speech shows how much he appeals to wide backgrounds and resonates to the young, Latino, white, black, workers and so many.

BERNIEMENTUM
Summer of Sanders!

Dems, I have seen people from all those demographics state that they will be supporting him even though on some issues, many might disagree. But the over-riding issue all of them care about, is THIS COUNTRY.

All the wedge issues that USED to divide people, have become less important to people across the board as they realize the danger of losing this democracy.

On so many issues, a vast majority of the people actually AGREE. Not being dependent on the Corporate Media anymore, makes a huge difference. Young people especially are not into the MSM so are not being influenced by the Corporate Propaganda.

We are in an exciting time in our history. We can make a difference, it's really up to us.

What have you done for us lately Bernie. It's amazing how the lies take hold and get repeated over and over again.

Civil Rights, they clearly have an agenda and it isn't Civil Rights.

We finally have an AUTHENTIC progressive, a REAL leader, a TRUE champion in Bernie Sanders who will look out for the folks on Main Street, instead of all those hedgefund types and corporatists on Wall Street. What a breath of fresh air he is! Go Bernie Go!

do you disagree with Bernie on, what has he been wrong about re those issues, in your OPINION.

That was another one of thos fun "facts" you spouted without and backup. Your opinion means very little at this point.

respond to it. Since I have no clue what you are talking about I cannot address it.

Star Member sabrina 1 (55,620 posts)
56. Your opinion, considering your participation in spreading false

claims about a good candidate who represents all that is good about this country with a record to prove it, is of no consequence to me. You lost any credibility you might have to be complaining at this point by participating in those false claims.


Look it up on your own posts...sheesh

attacking Sanders using false claims? I sure haven't seen you defend him against those lies.

I've asked you where you disagree with him on the issues, you haven't responded, but you are there in threads slamming him, joining in, not saying why, not explaining what you don't agree with, I would call that helping to spread false claims about a candidate.

So now can shut that shit out of your talking points. It would appear that it doesn't matter what is said Or not said, what my opinion is or is not. So not I'm not giving you my opinion on any of Bernie's points you opined in the op.

You pick and chose and spread lies about me. That much is established. Happy?

post something negative, that's all I have seen regarding your posts. I don't follow people around to see what they are saying of doing, so I can only judge by what I see. I have not once seen you make a positive comment about Sanders so sorry if I missed them. Good for you if you defend a candidate against lies, that is the right thing to do.

But don't expect people to know anything about your comment history if all they see, if all your comments to them, are negative.

And we are lovers!

Right?!

it!

That is why I am starting to look at who starts the OP and vowing not to post anything.



It works sometimes.

Better to start another one with the FACTS when you see an obvious talking point thread.

Let them drop like a stone where they belong. All my OPs are prompted by theirs. Lol! But I will not feed the talking points, not ever.

You can look up his stellar record on civil rights all on your lonesome - because digging for facts is something that is all our responsibility as citizens of a republic.

She is the one giving her version of "facts" and telling everyone to look it up.

I'll look up jack shit on this topic.

Thanks for your opinion too. At least you don't try to portray it as something else.

issues. So once again I will give you a chance to discuss why you oppose Sanders on the issues, see the OP and see if we can elevate the discussion to just focusing on the issues. On which of these issues do you disagree with Sanders?

..of wonderfulness. Your past responses to me have not been so wonderful and kind and without insult.

You can request my opinion of Bernie a millions times but after calling me a liar, you deserve jack.

about Bernie on the issues, he has been an exemplary Representative of the People. Thank you for reminding me, I'm sure I have forgotten a whole lot more.

awhile (especially offshoring, TPP, and h-1b's). Bernie has been extremely supportive of labor. I know you know that.

And I thank you for all you do, sabrina.

Labor, Bernie has been outstanding on Labor. And the TPP, yes, another excellent topic, and again, Bernie does the right thing.

Thank you very much for the reminders, it's hard to keep up with him sometimes, the man is amazing!

Please let your candidate know that while we appreciate that he was marching 40+ years ago, lip service to our very real issues now just isn't enough. We recognize when someone is just trying to throw us a bone to get a vote & it won't work.

and so far as I know, she has not addressed that yet.

Bernie knows the value of Black lives, no one, other than those who are afraid of his excellent record on this issue, doubts that, so I don't need to remind him, he was working on that issue before many people now ready to vote, were born. AND continued to do so throughout his entire life.

As Jesse Jackson said about Bernie, he will remember that when he most needed support in his campaign from his fellow Dems, only two White Elected officials stood up for him. One of them was Bernie Sanders, 20 years AFTER the Civil Rights Movement you have dismissed so casually, and the other was Jim Hightower.

Btw, what was Hillary doing when Bernie was out there working for Civil Rights, getting himself elected?


I focus on my own candidate, why don't Hillary's supporters focus on theirs, rather than Bernie?

Black Church recently, by using the phrase 'all lives matter'.

Odd you all would forget that while claiming to 'care' so much about the issue.

But hey, I focus on my candidate, because there is so much to talk about re issues and having a candidate who has an incredible record on ALL the issues, especially on Civil Rights, there isn't much time for me to spend running around writing OPS about other candidates.

And nothing to prove or back it up. All the Hillarians has to wait 10 days before confirming her 'stance'.

I'm still questioning on why Clinton punted the $15 minimum wage and insult America with her idea of "profit sharing" instead of an annual raise of 15%.

But it is never offered to part time employees, and not even to temps, that I'm aware of. Of course, the new trend is to replace as many full-time employees with part-time, as you can get away with. I have no problem with using some temp full-time employees (because that helps to retain permanent full-time workers during a cyclical slow down), but the use of many part-time workers on a regular basis is not fair to people who need full-time jobs. It just makes it easier for the business to not have to offer bennies. Long term temp employees often qualify for some benefits from their temp agencies. And if an opening for full-time comes up, companies will often hire from the temp staff that has already been trained for that job. So it's a good way to get a foot in the door.

Also, profit sharing is determined as a percentage of your wages, so the bigger wage earners (management) get a lot more in profit sharing than the lowest paid employees do. So it has to go hand in hand with livable wages. It will not solve the problems of income inequality in this country. It does help to provide motivation for profitability for a company. It's still an upside down policy...not progressive. But then, I don't expect progressive policy coming from Hillary.

Keep the jobs here and make sure they are decent ones.

And tax the wealthy who need to start contributing their share to this country from which they take so much.

Cute.
No...adorable.

heh

I am definitely not a Hillary supporter, but I have been very vocal on this board since Bernie announced that he was missing his mark with many minority voters. I am still undecided at this point as many of the candidates don't seem to want to take our views into consideration.

I see people here dismissing the entire Civil Rights Movement and those who were there fighting for the rights of AAs. I know, we all know, this is nothing more than a talking point, and its origins are clear.

But it's politics, we, and Bernie I am sure, expected it. I am glad that Bernie doesn't buy negative talking points and ads. Another reason why I support him.

majority older white people. Which is why when younger minorities say things to you, you may just want to listen just a little bit since we are quite a large demographic.

Your DU bubble is not the real world.

spoken for themselves, rather than have all these old people here who claim to speak for them claiming to represent them. They don't.

Guess you haven't been listening, but then, that is why they support Bernie, he does listen to them.

about other DUers and who they are or what they do in RL, though it doesn't stop from ranting and raving about it.

I don't need to save anything, I know these people, some of them are actually HERE on DU. Too bad you have been ignoring them.

why does he register such low levels of support from minorities in polls?

It's one thing to claim what you claim if there is no evidence, but there is plenty of evidence that at this point, you're just wrong.

That isn't to say that Sanders can't or won't increase his support from minorities, but he certainly doesn't have it at this point.

All of whom are finding out about a candidate they can now support and are probably not on the pollsters' radar. Or maybe the polls are wrong, maybe they are not calling young people who don't have landlines, there are all kinds of reasons not to put one's faith in polls.

What I do know is that Bernie IS getting a lot of support from minorities which really shouldn't be a surrprise.

In fact, they have done the research and they see that Sanders is the best candidate on civil rights issues past, present and future that the Democratic party has.

I hate to break it to you but the majority in the BIG bubble are ALSO a majority of older white people. Whites make up 77.7% of the population (as of 2013):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States

And I guess it depends on your definition of "older". But the median age is 37.6. Many would consider 35 and up "older".

http://www.statista.com/statistics/264727/median-age-of-the-population-in-selected-countries/


The only stat that is warped is that we have a large majority of more progressive voters in here, but as far as demographics here in DU it is very much a reflection of the larger population. And I would go further and argue that considering that its the Democratic Party that is the most inclusive in regards to minorities, and youth issues like the War on Drugs, education etc.. that the percentage of minorities and those under 36 on this board would even be above the national average.

His entire career has been about civil rights. Enough with the "lip service" bullshit.

movements for Civil Rights in this country. I have never heard a single AA do that, 'oh, that's old news from 50 years ago', so I have to assume this is coming from people to whom it is not important.

To go that far to 'win', to dismiss those who put their freedom and reputations and even lives on the line for political reasons, is truly a sad thing to watch. And it will backfire on their candidate, it is already. I will be showing these comments to voters I am signing up for Bernie, so they can see how little they really care.

If not Hillary, whom are you supporting?

as an after thought. WTF, are you calling clueless? That I am very aware of the racial bias my son's & I live on a daily basis. Or that I have to fear that my son could be shot & killed running to baseball practice because he has headphones on & didn't hear a cop yelling commands at him? But yet Sanders thinks this somehow will be fixed by unemployment rates?

I have no doubt that your fears are very, very real and I cannot begin to imagine what that feels like, however your last sentence indicates that you really don't know what you're taking about when it comes to Senator Sanders.

It is, however, a bullshit talking point I have heard echoed around here before.

discussing Sanders & social justice & he did exactly that. He began by discussing black youth incarceration/death rates then immediately jumped to adjusting the unemployment rate.

These two things will not magically fix each other. Giving a black kid a job is not going to stop the cops from racially profiling him & throwing him in jail on trumped up charges or killing him. This is where Sanders is missing his mark big time.