We know his record.

Now the harassing of black people who don not support him certainly is an issue. And calling us Koch plants paid to troll.
https://mobile.twitter.com/BlackJacobin85/status/623254805880770560

That is human nature.

Bernie got criticized, he got protested. How is that an attack on his fans? His fans were the ones attacking random black folks on the internet.

They are flawed. They are human.

then everthing imploded.

And it still has very little to do with Bernie.

White people who marched and fought for Civil Rights were murdered as well. You keep saying it doesn't matter. How could it not matter? The nation was and in many instances still is, even under a Poc President under a white supremacy. Why would it not take any or all to fight it?

It was nice, it was good, and it was not enough. If it were, would we be here? Dying in the streets by the hand of the law? In prison? 1/3 of black men jailed in their lifetime? How does that do anything about the situation today. Thousands of black were lynched. We are still being lynched.

If there is someone a little shy about making a ruckus in the public domain or shy about taking on officials in the public square, but thought well maybe I might try, they may turn shy again and say what's the use if they are also working to get Senator Sanders elected to a different office. For most, it won't matter, but if that person is scared away, that's one less that would break out of the cycle of just watching things unfold instead of doing nothing.

or that white people aren't being properly acknowledged for their own civil rights work? Stop demanding that black people preface every critique of white privilege with an asterisk that says "but not all white people",everybody already knows that. And stop bringing up Dr. King when demanding that black people pat you on the back for,as the article points out, being a normal,non racist human being.

since it began and have come to know some of its incredible members unwilling to let the Ferguson protests disappear and the murders of AAs go unnoticed for one more day.

I remember when DU was not particularoy interested in the Ferguson protests and I'm racking my brain to try to remember why one of the best posters on Ferguson, seeing how little interest there was for his excellent OPs trying to keep the focus on this most important issue, finally said goodbye to DU. I remember asking him not to leave, knowing that once he did, Ferguson would also disappear from DU's consciousness, but I understood and eventually joined him elsewhere where there was more hope that we could keep the focus on this issue.

How come Hillary eg, wasn't aware of the movement until she made her gaffe, and airc, those going after Bernie now, defended her here? I could have posted the reactions of AAs around the country, but instead tried to explain to one of Hillary's defenders WHY her phrase 'all lives matter' was so insensitive. No one was really interested.

I let it go because this is NOT a political football to be played as it is being NOW, only to disapear once again when it has no political benefits, either AFTER the election or before, if t hat should be the case.

I will go back to read some of the Ferguson Protest OPS, it saddened me that once the media went away, so did DU until NOW.

Bernie Sanders btw, defended Hillary Clinton to the media after she was being slammed by AAs for her insensitive remark. He too did not want to use it as a political football and would not play their game which was 'get her now while she's down'. He is a class act, and I hope not to be tempted into joining in this game, like him,, though I am nowhere near as disciplined as he is, because it is way too serious an issue for that.

Last edited Thu Jul 23, 2015, 09:17 PM - Edit history (4)

of course Viola Liuzzo was among some brave souls murdered by the occupation army of the time. It does matter and is noted as an ultimate sacrifice in doing what was right. Still is, yet today it is still happening to POC in large numbers that can't be minimized or diminished by actions that happened 45-50 years ago. Yes it's going to take us all, BUT, yet again I ask, why have enough of "all" of us NOT stood up in the last 45-50 years in numbers enough to let the PTB all of "we the people" want to see an end to POC being murdered, having their voting and civil rights abrogated by a racist RW SCOTUS and local racists in many state of the union? Enough have stood up for LBGT rights to change the law of the land, yet no law is strong enough to create proper policing techniques, proper psychological training for police, proper screening for the thugs comprising the occupation armies patrolling minority and other communities and on and on. SCOTUS appointments in the next administration is of prime importance and a priority concern after this upcoming GE.

It's all been spelled out in the last week or so since NN and #Black Lives Matter.

ON EDIT: after what sanders supporters have done to a few POC, here, Bravenak, most recently, a very special person, people who have concerns about sanders and voiced them and are now being hidden, banned and otherwise subject to the white privilege of whiny little children who can't stand truth, every positive word concerning sanders is TOTALLY rescinded ..

(This>>>>true-RESCINDED AFFIRMATIONS>>>.THIS>>>Sen. Sanders, so far in my book, is coming closest to being the one to address these questions straight forward, no BS. THIS>>>>>TRUE In the next 16 months, we better get our shit together to field the best candidate for POC rights and the rights of all americans or all americans especially the POC and poor will be thrown under the fascist racist train of the RW to be crushed, mutilated and discarded like so much human garbage. And the many poor who will be voting against their best interest only because of racist fear agitated by the media, won't be able to blame POC anymore, although I'm sure they and the Moonie media will try. IT WILL TAKE ALL OF US with critical thinking skills and a conscience to turn back the fascists. TRUE>>> BS supporters of sanders here don't appreciate POC, these words have also been rescinded because the sanders supporters keep telling POC here to STFU when they raise concerns about sanders priorities.

ON EDIT###<<<every positive word on sanders here is hereby rescinded-rescinded and my friends are reading this also. I am sending them here to see how POC are treated by sanders supporters...this nixonesque-atwater strategy to put black people in their place WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO PASS. #Black Lives Matter, even here people don't believe that.

I could push for a while then I would have to be carried off the field....lol....

Because the real fact of the matter is that if you are in the camp of the privileged and want to do something to help end the oppression of others you will be punished by the oppressor as an example. In other words, if you are white and are doing the right thing other white people are gonna put the hammer down on you hard.

The whiny whites around here can't even take a little bit of constructive criticism.

Yeah, I wouldn't listen to them either.

Of a missed point.

Instead of throwing out a dismissive

misses the point. Rather than casting aspersions on those that did what they could, when they could. It serves as a hit piece on someone who tried to make things better.

And The point is....

It is All Economics.

It always has been and most likely always will be....

Talk about missing it by a mile...

"It is All Economics"

No, it really isn't.

I don't have time to rehash this point that has been argued here ad infinitum. At this point I'll just put you in the non-it-getters column and leave it at that.

Truly sorry I asked...

You do have to dig a little deeper, but.............

been that way for long????

Just not buying what's being sold.

of work and sorting out to be done before the primaries. I just hope all of US is up for the upcoming challenge(s).

put's a lot of the BS in perspective. Bernie is close to being accepted by all decent, critical thinkers living in reality. He does not seem to be, in all candor, some self absorbed insulated and privileged individual living in a bubble of denial as to what real problems and their priorities could possibly be with our current stable of liberal and progressive candidates seeking our votes. He is beginning to 'fess' up that he knows what's going on with us 'little' people out here in the streets facing all types of threats from our militarized armies of occupation controlling minorities and the minority communities all across amerika. Hope he keeps it up because Sandra Bland matters, and all #Black Lives Matter, as a priority to millions of concerned people living in the occupation army policed and controlled ghettos and other communities in amerika.

You nailed it!

I literally just finished reading this on alternet. Well worth the time.

The issue as I see it. Sanders has a great record in this area. Damn near unquestionable. So, what happened? He has spent the last decade representing a monolith constituency. He has done so brilliantly. His positions are sound and his record is solid. He has been doing what he should, and that has involved limited interaction with diverse communities. That is in no way the fault of Sanders at all. Just the opposite. He has been one of the best representatives for his constituency of any elected official in this country. What he and others weren't ready for, is the what have you done for me lately and the errors in rhetoric that come about when those around you all look the same. Example: Sanders clearly stated that guns are a problem of gangs in LA and Chicago, not in his rural back yard. That statement is clearly and provably false. It is an NRA talking point that has engrained itself into every segment of society. Sanders was simply fighting for his constituency and needs to realize, and is realizing, that he is now fighting to represent a much larger constituency than he has in the last decade. Sanders is no NRA stooge. He just knows where his bread has been buttered for the last decade. We are watching him change his rhetoric. We are watching him realize that he might need to address some things differently. He is realizing some want immediate action, not the decades it will take to realize any effort at all with respect to economic justice alone. It is clear from his words, and his willingness to change rhetoric, that he gets this.

Some are also tired of hearing about the greatness of a white man on this topic for the last fifty years while people are dying in the streets today. That concept is so difficult and makes it almost unfair to Sanders and his positive historical record with respect to rhetoric. It's hard to show it as great deeds when in 2012 it was proven that society has given white men the authority to hunt down and shoot a black man as if he were wild game.

It's about a man with that kind of record being called indifferent or aloof or unaware. It is also about wanting action on the brutality that we have been witnessing now. It is about all those things.

I agree it isn't about the greatness of a white man. Still, optics are real and must be recognized. That comment was in reference to optics only. Optics that have really left Sanders, and his supporters, in an unfair position. I actually think aloof is and acceptable word in this situation. Comments with respect to him being indifferent or unaware are simply from people who are unaware themselves.

Have a nice day.

Others may see it differently, but that is how it looks to me.

That is why soon, I will not be in these types of threads. I'm speaking more to being inclusive, not exclusive.

The difference is they are listening to the AA folks here on DU, not trying to tell them how it is.

I do not tell people how to vote. Offering perspective. The perspective will not be accepted. That's ok. Change takes a long time. The problem is, the injustice isn't being stopped through all this. It requires action now. Protesting and asking questions of the candidates is perfectly fine.

I think you can have an excellent dialogue with some of the posters replying. A couple of those names have a proven history of discussing these topics with great respect regardless of the candidate being supported. You are very key in making this discussion work with them as well.

Bernie can and will 'defend' himself, if people will just let him do it. And he'll do it by showing that he IS listening, and DOES have plans to more actively work on the specific aspects of racism that that AA's feel are most urgent.

Just leave it to him.

And I suspect he, wisely, won't be defending himself by inventing a "why are you calling me racist?/Why are you saying I don't care about Black people" narrative.

I'm speaking more people to people dialogue.

That nothing short of total surrender to the meme is acceptable.
White privilege makes it all irrelevant

would do if you were trying to tell them what to think about issues regarding their equality.

You would get the same response.

The obvious conclusion then is just not talking to them...because your opinions and ideas are not wanted.
Good advice...I will take it...seperation is the answer. We can just talk among our own group that will grow smaller but will be always agreeable.

go home and your mom will give you some graham crackers. Because of course it's all about you and how you are effected by it.

Too bad I find it on what is a generally intelligent board.

quit accusing people of being petty. The issues are in no way petty.

And dismissed as garbage...I know this because I have been there before...the more I try to explain the stronger the accusations will become. I can do nothing but feed the hostility monster.

Even if I were to grovel at your feet and beg forgiveness for my imagined thought crimes it would not be enough...punishment is the only satisfaction the only reward.

garbage is garbage. The thing you don't understand is that no one has to like you just because you so strongly demand that they do. And in case you didn't already know, and I know you do, saying something like imagined thought crimes does not show any sincerity and anyone would suspect your motives for grovelling. (another jab at civil discourse).

you=explain
them=accuse
you=nurturer (feeder)
them-hostile
you=grovel, beg
them=punisher

you are very transparent. Like one of those creepy little worms that live deep in the ocean.

the accusations and insults will only escalate.
Now I am a creepily little worm strongly demanding that people like me.
If I wanted you to like me I would kiss your ass and flatter you with praise.

But frankly my dear I don't give a damn.

and by the way-great movie to use as an example-again your little sideswipes are obvious and cruel. Gone with the wind! REALLY?

And right, you did not say I was one just compared me to one and there is nothing cruel about that is there?...does that mean I can say that black people are as funny as monikers and get away with it?...my god I hope not...but under the rules you are operating on I could.

And I chose that for it's irony, but I understand that some people don't get it.

I am a peaceful person and want peace, but not at any price.

and transparent

Got it.

...from anyone identifying themselves as a liberal? How does that history insulate ANYONE from criticism of their statements or actions today?

Was it unconscionable to criticize either Martin or Malcolm in their day if there were disagreements with their tactics actions, or rhetoric? Of course not. There was a great deal of disagreement between several factions of the civil rights movement over the efficacy of direct action or the benefit of compromise and negotiation; between reactionary violence and non-violent tactics; between marching in the street or participating in the legislative process.

How are these disagreements we're seeing today so much more (or less) consequential to the individuals or the concerns involved that it should be seen as some outrage to question candidates' focus, rhetoric, or priorities in this election?

My advice would be to get over the notion that ANY candidate's past history of support for issues, initiatives, and interests associated with race automatically insulates them from questions of commitment to the issues of the day. Challenge these politicians to excel on their earlier support and work to elevate the issues, interests, and concerns; not merely seeking to elevate the candidates.

I'm talking about a deeper understanding among people just to have dialog and also to act on solutions, not get off track like we are doing.

...the article, not as much.

Thanks for posting, anyway.

That's why the tit for tat stuff at some point holds no water, especially in a heated political arena.

I like your candidate as a second choice btw. I'm leaving all these types of discussions now. But thanks for your input.

I can't think of another candidate I would trust more with the issues that BLM has raised.

He isn't polished. He just states things as he sees them. People who know him know what kind of person he is and that there are no issues in that regard about doing something about it if he gained that office.

But politics isn't the truth. Struggles with power are. Unfortunately, to win, you have to go through a political process on the national level. The establishment doesn't care if you are in the middle of legislative bodies. They do care if you are in a place of higher visibility and they will do whatever they can to squash you like a bug if an opportunity presents itself.

advocacy into a racist. This is a distortion on par with turning John Kerry into a traitor or George Bush into a statesman. I despise them, but must convey grudging admiration for managing to completely create a new reality from scratch.

this is craziness.

Naturally she starts out with more of POC's support. It's up to Bernie and us (his supporters) to try to win them over. Bernie has not done a good job of it so far. And a lot of his supporters have actually been making things worse. Not Hillary or her supporters. His supporters!