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Agschmid

(28,749 posts)
Tue Aug 4, 2015, 10:36 AM Aug 2015

The myth of Joe Biden's political appeal

If the rumors hold true and Joe Biden actually does run for president, he'd seem on paper to make a formidable candidate. Not only is he a sitting vice president, but many commentators say he has charisma and "authenticity" that contrast nicely with the overly-scripted, "polarizing" Hillary Clinton — or that he's a better politician than she is.

[center][/center]

Yet evidence for Biden's political appeal in the real world — among the Democratic electorate, the party, and the American public more broadly — is distinctly lacking.

During his 2008 presidential run, Biden performed abysmally, dropping out after getting less than 1 percent of the vote in the Iowa caucuses. Since becoming veep, he has never been particularly well-liked among the public, with whom he is viewed more unfavorably than favorably. He's performed worse than Clinton in most polls testing both of them against major Republicans. And the party elites and interest groups that play an important role in the primary process have shown no great desire for a Biden bid, rushing to endorse Hillary Clinton rather than waiting for the veep to make up his mind.

Worst of all for Biden's primary chances, he hasn't been able to crack 20 percent support in the nearly 100 national polls of Democrats that have tested his name. The closest he has come to Clinton in any of them is 33 points behind her.


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The myth of Joe Biden's political appeal (Original Post) Agschmid Aug 2015 OP
Pretty much this. TwilightGardener Aug 2015 #1
Post removed Post removed Aug 2015 #2
We typically don't call each other trolls... just FYI. Agschmid Aug 2015 #4
Amazing someone can insinuate you are a troll with the history you have here. NCTraveler Aug 2015 #7
And they aren't even new. Agschmid Aug 2015 #9
You might not, but I will. LWolf Aug 2015 #19
You know, troll-calling is bad form on DU. Not a good idea at all. MineralMan Aug 2015 #8
Meh.... Joe is the guy... Adrahil Aug 2015 #12
Anyone But Hillary! MineralMan Aug 2015 #3
I agree. Agschmid Aug 2015 #5
I think that Biden would pull about 10% from Clinton, MineralMan Aug 2015 #6
Agree. Agschmid Aug 2015 #10
Before the campaigning even began, polls asked Dems who they wanted to see as the nominee. Hillary Metric System Aug 2015 #14
That's true. And she's still polling far ahead of everyone else. MineralMan Aug 2015 #37
Before VP, Joe was most famous for sponsoring the RAVE act and the 2005 Bankruptcy Bill. Romulox Aug 2015 #11
thanks for that info. m-lekktor Aug 2015 #13
The 2005 Bankruptcy "Reform" Act was even worse. nt Romulox Aug 2015 #20
That bill had a direct and negative effect on me.. frylock Aug 2015 #24
Sorry to hear that. I've met lots of people whose lives were made worse by the 2005 BK bill. Romulox Aug 2015 #28
Yep. That bill forced my hand, and I wound up filing Chapter 7.. frylock Aug 2015 #32
Wow man! I have a Surly KM riding on Rabbit Hole wheelset I built up myself. Romulox Aug 2015 #34
Awesome! I hate to threadjack this, but always great to talk with a fellow Surly rider.. frylock Aug 2015 #35
This is my favorite thing that Surly has ever done: Romulox Aug 2015 #40
I don't know/remember the specifics of that particular bill for some reason. m-lekktor Aug 2015 #33
DU should switch the letters Persondem Aug 2015 #15
Maybe they should, you could ask in ATA. Agschmid Aug 2015 #16
+ 1 nt Stellar Aug 2015 #17
It's a long shot but . . . ucrdem Aug 2015 #18
It's because Joe and Hillary are essentially interchangeable. nt Romulox Aug 2015 #21
You know I really do think Bernie has the better positions... Agschmid Aug 2015 #22
This whole narrative in the news cycle seems to originate with Maureen Dowd's column. Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #23
I don't have access to any kind of special information... Agschmid Aug 2015 #25
I was just curious, I thought I'd missed something. :) Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #26
Nothing substantial yet! Agschmid Aug 2015 #27
MoDo really dislikes BlueMTexpat Aug 2015 #30
I agree, that's why I was wondering. Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #31
We're definitely on the same BlueMTexpat Aug 2015 #39
The Democratic establishment is starting to feel a bit queasy about Clinton's electability tularetom Aug 2015 #29
biden is a safe type of candidate JI7 Aug 2015 #36
I love the guy medeak Aug 2015 #38

Response to Agschmid (Original post)

Agschmid

(28,749 posts)
4. We typically don't call each other trolls... just FYI.
Tue Aug 4, 2015, 10:41 AM
Aug 2015

I'm not going to alert but that was out of line.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
7. Amazing someone can insinuate you are a troll with the history you have here.
Tue Aug 4, 2015, 10:47 AM
Aug 2015

And for posting something rooted in todays reality.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
19. You might not, but I will.
Tue Aug 4, 2015, 11:32 AM
Aug 2015

I want DU to hold that line. Personal attacks are not okay. It seems like there are more personal attacks on DUers in GDP than there are attacks on actual candidates.

Edited to add the response:

On Tue Aug 4, 2015, 09:29 AM you sent an alert on the following post:

Now that didn't take long
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=492799

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

YOUR COMMENTS

Calling Agschmid a troll.

JURY RESULTS

Someone else already alerted on this post before you alerted on it, and only the first alert was sent to a Jury. A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of the post on Tue Aug 4, 2015, 09:31 AM, and voted 6-1 to HIDE IT. Please note that even though your alert was not sent to a Jury, it has been forwarded to the Administrators who review all alerts.

Thank you.
 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
12. Meh.... Joe is the guy...
Tue Aug 4, 2015, 10:55 AM
Aug 2015

everybody wants a beer with and loves to have around events, but who somehow slips off the top of voter preferences. His time is done. He has been great. He is maybe the best VEEP I can remember... he actually made a difference.

Retire Joe! Retire as a much-beloved Veep during an historic Presidency, not as the guy who didn't know when to quit.

MineralMan

(146,336 posts)
3. Anyone But Hillary!
Tue Aug 4, 2015, 10:40 AM
Aug 2015

That's the rallying cry. Frankly, almost all of the same objections many people have about Hillary Clinton also apply to Joe Biden.

I don't think Biden will run. If he does, Clinton will still lead in the polling.

Agschmid

(28,749 posts)
5. I agree.
Tue Aug 4, 2015, 10:41 AM
Aug 2015

If he runs he won't pull enough from her to put her in 2nd, it will just tighten the race between Bernie & Hillary.

MineralMan

(146,336 posts)
6. I think that Biden would pull about 10% from Clinton,
Tue Aug 4, 2015, 10:46 AM
Aug 2015

maybe 3-5% from Bernie, and simply eliminate O'Malley and the rest. That would still leave Clinton with a substantial margin in most primaries. I don't think he'd run hard or push for the nomination much at all. In the end, he will be a solid, active Clinton supporter, along with President Obama in the GE campaign.

I do think he'd move into the second position in the polling, though, pushing Sanders into third place. I'm pretty much certain about that. He'd still be under the same bus people have tried to throw Hillary Clinton under.

Agschmid

(28,749 posts)
10. Agree.
Tue Aug 4, 2015, 10:49 AM
Aug 2015

I just don't think he wants it in the same way potentially Bernie/Hillary/O'Malley do. And I even temper that statement that I do think O'Malley is running for VP or for future Pres.

Metric System

(6,048 posts)
14. Before the campaigning even began, polls asked Dems who they wanted to see as the nominee. Hillary
Tue Aug 4, 2015, 10:58 AM
Aug 2015

out-polled Biden even before she declared herself a candidate.

Romulox

(25,960 posts)
11. Before VP, Joe was most famous for sponsoring the RAVE act and the 2005 Bankruptcy Bill.
Tue Aug 4, 2015, 10:52 AM
Aug 2015

The former "Senator from the MBNA" is not exactly a man of the people.

frylock

(34,825 posts)
24. That bill had a direct and negative effect on me..
Tue Aug 4, 2015, 11:48 AM
Aug 2015

I could not, in good conscience, vote for the guy.

Romulox

(25,960 posts)
28. Sorry to hear that. I've met lots of people whose lives were made worse by the 2005 BK bill.
Tue Aug 4, 2015, 11:58 AM
Aug 2015

It basically forces people into un-tenable Chapter 13 filings, when what these people often need is a true "Fresh Start" (Chapter 7.)

(As an aside, I hope you are well, and still riding. You should see the bike I built for myself this year. Do you know Hadley USA hubs? They are in LA area, and basically make one of the best Single Speed hubs going.)

frylock

(34,825 posts)
32. Yep. That bill forced my hand, and I wound up filing Chapter 7..
Tue Aug 4, 2015, 12:18 PM
Aug 2015

before the bill went into effect. I had been unemployed for 14 months prior to filing.

Yeah, man, still riding every weekend, and any weekday after work when I can fit in a quick pedal. I built up a Surly Krampus several months ago, ostensibly for bikepacking, but I can't stay off the thing! My other bikes have grown jealous! Haven't had the SS out in a while. Maybe this weekend. I'm ashamed to admit that I'd never heard of Hadley, but their product looks real nice. What kind of bike did you build up, and what color did you opt for on those hubs?

Romulox

(25,960 posts)
34. Wow man! I have a Surly KM riding on Rabbit Hole wheelset I built up myself.
Tue Aug 4, 2015, 01:04 PM
Aug 2015

I have a (2012?) Surly Karate Monkey I've been riding for a few years that I have built up a few different ways--always SS though, since Michigan is real flat. Right now, I have a Rabbit Hole wheelset that I built myself on it--single speed on Halo hubs. I have the 3" Knard on the front, and a 2.35" Schwalbe Nobby Nic on the rear. Set up ghetto tubeless, too. This is my mud/wet leaves bike.

My 2015 bike is an Ibis Tr 29. Carbon Fiber Single Speed with a 100 mm Reba fork. The wheelset is Hadley front and rear hubs, SS specific, with Stan's Arch Ex hoops. Hate talking about this one on a thread about Bankruptcy. Beleive me, I saved up.

Anyhow, Hadley hubs are among the best. In the same league as Chris King. Made in Upland, California. Basically, any axle can be switched out for any other one. My Hadley/Arch wheels started out as 135 mm QR. A simple axle switch ($45 or so) and they are now 142 mm/ 12 mm Maxle.

frylock

(34,825 posts)
35. Awesome! I hate to threadjack this, but always great to talk with a fellow Surly rider..
Tue Aug 4, 2015, 01:14 PM
Aug 2015

the KM is a great frame. My SS is a 2008 Redline Flight Monocog with an 80mm Fox F29. I just went ghetto split-tube with my Rabbit Holes as well. Was pleasantly surprised by how easy the beads set, and I haven't lost a single pound of pressure since converting. I may eventually go with the Velocity Dually, or Stan's Hugo when I go with my dyno hub setup. I'm gonna take a closer look at those Hadley's. They are priced significantly lower than the CKs or Hope hubs.

Romulox

(25,960 posts)
40. This is my favorite thing that Surly has ever done:
Wed Aug 5, 2015, 02:16 PM
Aug 2015




(not directed at anyone in particular! It just cracks me up.)

I also rock a X-Check SS for when the trails are wet, and a "Neck Romancer" Pugsley for when it snows! I want a Krampus too.

My SS is a 2008 Redline Flight Monocog with an 80mm Fox F29. I just went ghetto split-tube with my Rabbit Holes as well. Was pleasantly surprised by how easy the beads set, and I haven't lost a single pound of pressure since converting.


Nice. I have the same experience--nothing but good things to say about split tube tubeless. I pulled a 3" Honey Locust thorn from my a split tube Knard recently, and it sealed right up. I run about 10 PSI in the Knard in the summer.

I may eventually go with the Velocity Dually, or Stan's Hugo when I go with my dyno hub setup. I'm gonna take a closer look at those Hadley's. They are priced significantly lower than the CKs or Hope hubs.


Yeah, they are really good and a good price. Check out mtbr.com forums to see what people say about them. Hadley don't have a website (you can talk to the owners by phone though), so Balle Racing is kind of like their unofficial product page:

http://www.balleracing.com

I don't have any affiliation, I'm just a fanboy of theirs. Great stuff!

m-lekktor

(3,675 posts)
33. I don't know/remember the specifics of that particular bill for some reason.
Tue Aug 4, 2015, 12:20 PM
Aug 2015

But I do remember the RAVE act!

Persondem

(1,936 posts)
15. DU should switch the letters
Tue Aug 4, 2015, 11:04 AM
Aug 2015

to UD for Undermine Democrats.

Why this OP? Is Joe so threatening that purported negatives have to highlighted before he even announces?

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
18. It's a long shot but . . .
Tue Aug 4, 2015, 11:20 AM
Aug 2015

so are the other not-Hillarys which basically require a Clinton catastrophe to succeed. Which gives them a certain vulture-like cast and calls for either a full-on ABC attitude (the Sanders constituency) or an air of playfulness, for lack of a better word, which Biden is good at. In fact it comes naturally. Being in Cali I don't have immediate experience of Joe's electioneering apart from his presidential runs and veep career which has been exemplary, the Ryan debate particularly, but I've observed time and again that casual acquaintances who loathe Barack really like Joe. So he turned out to be a great pick in that regard. Could he win at the top of the ticket? Somebody has to so I wouldn't rule it out, is what it boils down to.

Agschmid

(28,749 posts)
22. You know I really do think Bernie has the better positions...
Tue Aug 4, 2015, 11:37 AM
Aug 2015

I have absolutely no doubt about that. I think that there is a chance that the republicans might nominate someone he could beat but we won't know until we get much closer to the first primaries.

It sure is going to be interesting.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
23. This whole narrative in the news cycle seems to originate with Maureen Dowd's column.
Tue Aug 4, 2015, 11:43 AM
Aug 2015

Is there actually more to it? We watched the MSNBC lineup last night and I didn't see anything very substantial, just some reaction spots.

Agschmid

(28,749 posts)
25. I don't have access to any kind of special information...
Tue Aug 4, 2015, 11:50 AM
Aug 2015

I think he could run, and should run if he wants to, I even think he'd be competitive. BUT, and it's a big but, I don't think he will in the end.

BlueMTexpat

(15,374 posts)
30. MoDo really dislikes
Tue Aug 4, 2015, 12:11 PM
Aug 2015

Hillary Clinton, as can be evidenced from her long history of trashing anything Hillary does.

So if MoDo is the source of the most recent hoopla about Joe, the "news" should be discounted, at least for bias. It is truly tragic, but sometimes the worst enemies of women are ... other women.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
31. I agree, that's why I was wondering.
Tue Aug 4, 2015, 12:17 PM
Aug 2015

It seems weird that a MoDo column got blown up into a real news item all over the media. Maybe it is Trump fatigue and they wanted something new to talk about.

Some woman trash other women because it gets them taken seriously by some men--standing up for your own is seen as some kind of weak feminine tribalism (although we are supposed to ignore when men in power cover for each other.) It's a power-play.

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
29. The Democratic establishment is starting to feel a bit queasy about Clinton's electability
Tue Aug 4, 2015, 11:59 AM
Aug 2015

So they're floating Biden out there as an alternative in case she implodes before the convention.

He might be a nice guy and all but a lot of us remember the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings.

And he voted for the Iraq war resolution too.

JI7

(89,276 posts)
36. biden is a safe type of candidate
Tue Aug 4, 2015, 01:34 PM
Aug 2015

Maybe doesn't have the extra appeal to win the nomination against some others.

But most would say he is qualified to be president and they should feel safe with him ad pres.

This is why Obama picked him to be vp. People feel comfortable with him.

If anything happens where Clinton don't be the nominee it still most likely be Biden ends up as the nominee.

medeak

(8,101 posts)
38. I love the guy
Tue Aug 4, 2015, 02:01 PM
Aug 2015

we are related distantly and like myself and other relatives we are all too affectionate and honest. If that's the worst that can be said about us....

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