2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThe myth of Joe Biden's political appeal
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Yet evidence for Biden's political appeal in the real world among the Democratic electorate, the party, and the American public more broadly is distinctly lacking.
During his 2008 presidential run, Biden performed abysmally, dropping out after getting less than 1 percent of the vote in the Iowa caucuses. Since becoming veep, he has never been particularly well-liked among the public, with whom he is viewed more unfavorably than favorably. He's performed worse than Clinton in most polls testing both of them against major Republicans. And the party elites and interest groups that play an important role in the primary process have shown no great desire for a Biden bid, rushing to endorse Hillary Clinton rather than waiting for the veep to make up his mind.
Worst of all for Biden's primary chances, he hasn't been able to crack 20 percent support in the nearly 100 national polls of Democrats that have tested his name. The closest he has come to Clinton in any of them is 33 points behind her.
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TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)Response to Agschmid (Original post)
Post removed
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)I'm not going to alert but that was out of line.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)And for posting something rooted in todays reality.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Thanks for your post.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)I want DU to hold that line. Personal attacks are not okay. It seems like there are more personal attacks on DUers in GDP than there are attacks on actual candidates.
Edited to add the response:
Now that didn't take long
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=492799
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
YOUR COMMENTS
Calling Agschmid a troll.
JURY RESULTS
Someone else already alerted on this post before you alerted on it, and only the first alert was sent to a Jury. A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of the post on Tue Aug 4, 2015, 09:31 AM, and voted 6-1 to HIDE IT. Please note that even though your alert was not sent to a Jury, it has been forwarded to the Administrators who review all alerts.
Thank you.
MineralMan
(146,336 posts)You might want to edit your reply.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)everybody wants a beer with and loves to have around events, but who somehow slips off the top of voter preferences. His time is done. He has been great. He is maybe the best VEEP I can remember... he actually made a difference.
Retire Joe! Retire as a much-beloved Veep during an historic Presidency, not as the guy who didn't know when to quit.
MineralMan
(146,336 posts)That's the rallying cry. Frankly, almost all of the same objections many people have about Hillary Clinton also apply to Joe Biden.
I don't think Biden will run. If he does, Clinton will still lead in the polling.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)If he runs he won't pull enough from her to put her in 2nd, it will just tighten the race between Bernie & Hillary.
MineralMan
(146,336 posts)maybe 3-5% from Bernie, and simply eliminate O'Malley and the rest. That would still leave Clinton with a substantial margin in most primaries. I don't think he'd run hard or push for the nomination much at all. In the end, he will be a solid, active Clinton supporter, along with President Obama in the GE campaign.
I do think he'd move into the second position in the polling, though, pushing Sanders into third place. I'm pretty much certain about that. He'd still be under the same bus people have tried to throw Hillary Clinton under.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)I just don't think he wants it in the same way potentially Bernie/Hillary/O'Malley do. And I even temper that statement that I do think O'Malley is running for VP or for future Pres.
Metric System
(6,048 posts)out-polled Biden even before she declared herself a candidate.
MineralMan
(146,336 posts)Romulox
(25,960 posts)The former "Senator from the MBNA" is not exactly a man of the people.
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)The RAVE act is horrible.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)I could not, in good conscience, vote for the guy.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)It basically forces people into un-tenable Chapter 13 filings, when what these people often need is a true "Fresh Start" (Chapter 7.)
(As an aside, I hope you are well, and still riding. You should see the bike I built for myself this year. Do you know Hadley USA hubs? They are in LA area, and basically make one of the best Single Speed hubs going.)
frylock
(34,825 posts)before the bill went into effect. I had been unemployed for 14 months prior to filing.
Yeah, man, still riding every weekend, and any weekday after work when I can fit in a quick pedal. I built up a Surly Krampus several months ago, ostensibly for bikepacking, but I can't stay off the thing! My other bikes have grown jealous! Haven't had the SS out in a while. Maybe this weekend. I'm ashamed to admit that I'd never heard of Hadley, but their product looks real nice. What kind of bike did you build up, and what color did you opt for on those hubs?
Romulox
(25,960 posts)I have a (2012?) Surly Karate Monkey I've been riding for a few years that I have built up a few different ways--always SS though, since Michigan is real flat. Right now, I have a Rabbit Hole wheelset that I built myself on it--single speed on Halo hubs. I have the 3" Knard on the front, and a 2.35" Schwalbe Nobby Nic on the rear. Set up ghetto tubeless, too. This is my mud/wet leaves bike.
My 2015 bike is an Ibis Tr 29. Carbon Fiber Single Speed with a 100 mm Reba fork. The wheelset is Hadley front and rear hubs, SS specific, with Stan's Arch Ex hoops. Hate talking about this one on a thread about Bankruptcy. Beleive me, I saved up.
Anyhow, Hadley hubs are among the best. In the same league as Chris King. Made in Upland, California. Basically, any axle can be switched out for any other one. My Hadley/Arch wheels started out as 135 mm QR. A simple axle switch ($45 or so) and they are now 142 mm/ 12 mm Maxle.
frylock
(34,825 posts)the KM is a great frame. My SS is a 2008 Redline Flight Monocog with an 80mm Fox F29. I just went ghetto split-tube with my Rabbit Holes as well. Was pleasantly surprised by how easy the beads set, and I haven't lost a single pound of pressure since converting. I may eventually go with the Velocity Dually, or Stan's Hugo when I go with my dyno hub setup. I'm gonna take a closer look at those Hadley's. They are priced significantly lower than the CKs or Hope hubs.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)(not directed at anyone in particular! It just cracks me up.)
I also rock a X-Check SS for when the trails are wet, and a "Neck Romancer" Pugsley for when it snows! I want a Krampus too.
Nice. I have the same experience--nothing but good things to say about split tube tubeless. I pulled a 3" Honey Locust thorn from my a split tube Knard recently, and it sealed right up. I run about 10 PSI in the Knard in the summer.
Yeah, they are really good and a good price. Check out mtbr.com forums to see what people say about them. Hadley don't have a website (you can talk to the owners by phone though), so Balle Racing is kind of like their unofficial product page:
http://www.balleracing.com
I don't have any affiliation, I'm just a fanboy of theirs. Great stuff!
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)But I do remember the RAVE act!
Persondem
(1,936 posts)to UD for Undermine Democrats.
Why this OP? Is Joe so threatening that purported negatives have to highlighted before he even announces?
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)so are the other not-Hillarys which basically require a Clinton catastrophe to succeed. Which gives them a certain vulture-like cast and calls for either a full-on ABC attitude (the Sanders constituency) or an air of playfulness, for lack of a better word, which Biden is good at. In fact it comes naturally. Being in Cali I don't have immediate experience of Joe's electioneering apart from his presidential runs and veep career which has been exemplary, the Ryan debate particularly, but I've observed time and again that casual acquaintances who loathe Barack really like Joe. So he turned out to be a great pick in that regard. Could he win at the top of the ticket? Somebody has to so I wouldn't rule it out, is what it boils down to.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)Agschmid
(28,749 posts)I have absolutely no doubt about that. I think that there is a chance that the republicans might nominate someone he could beat but we won't know until we get much closer to the first primaries.
It sure is going to be interesting.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Is there actually more to it? We watched the MSNBC lineup last night and I didn't see anything very substantial, just some reaction spots.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)I think he could run, and should run if he wants to, I even think he'd be competitive. BUT, and it's a big but, I don't think he will in the end.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Haha but I feel the same way all the time!
BlueMTexpat
(15,374 posts)Hillary Clinton, as can be evidenced from her long history of trashing anything Hillary does.
So if MoDo is the source of the most recent hoopla about Joe, the "news" should be discounted, at least for bias. It is truly tragic, but sometimes the worst enemies of women are ... other women.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)It seems weird that a MoDo column got blown up into a real news item all over the media. Maybe it is Trump fatigue and they wanted something new to talk about.
Some woman trash other women because it gets them taken seriously by some men--standing up for your own is seen as some kind of weak feminine tribalism (although we are supposed to ignore when men in power cover for each other.) It's a power-play.
BlueMTexpat
(15,374 posts)wave-length, Starry Messenger!
tularetom
(23,664 posts)So they're floating Biden out there as an alternative in case she implodes before the convention.
He might be a nice guy and all but a lot of us remember the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings.
And he voted for the Iraq war resolution too.
JI7
(89,276 posts)Maybe doesn't have the extra appeal to win the nomination against some others.
But most would say he is qualified to be president and they should feel safe with him ad pres.
This is why Obama picked him to be vp. People feel comfortable with him.
If anything happens where Clinton don't be the nominee it still most likely be Biden ends up as the nominee.
medeak
(8,101 posts)we are related distantly and like myself and other relatives we are all too affectionate and honest. If that's the worst that can be said about us....