I think many of us would like a deeper understanding of how these kinds of tactics advance the blm cause. You know how we liberals are LOL

...it's often uncompromising and demanding to the point of exasperation. I think it's a reflection of the frustration and despair those protesting feel for their cause. It can be a confounding mix of reactionary acts, and actions calculated to 'advance' their cause. It's often a raw mix of emotion and reason.

I think back to 'Occupy' and recall many of the same questions being asked and the responses being that many didn't care about the political equation or agenda; just the effect of the movement, itself. It's like that.

front runner in the Democratic primary?

If it's nothing but being demanding, how come they are not demanding anything of those three people?

I am sure they will come up with some excuse

I am shocked I tell you, shocked.

It takes all of their points and just shoots them down when they can't answer that simple question.

I'm not buying it. Code pink makes due.

This is vital.

With a few rogue activists against the entire lily-white liberal population of Seattle.

Hysterical.

Please expound on what makes a good liberal vs a bad liberal or a "lily-white liberal" vs a ??? And, if you please, do it in an Archie Bunker voice. This is just too good.

And it's also overwhelmingly liberal. And these two women who claim to speak for Black Lives Matter were calling white liberals racists in their remarks. Are white liberals racist? That's certainly debatable. Will they listen to someone who is CALLING them racist? Mostly likely not.

I suggest you do a bit more reading on the event we are discussing before you start freaking out over me targetting "liberals."

Didn't think so.

Of lily-white liberals. That is a fact. You are welcome to go search out demographic reports. I'm sorry if the truth is offensive to you.

All northern European background.

Those disrupters weren't going to let Bernie speak no matter what he did-and they have no reason to be angry with him.

My comment was about the two women's statements about racist white liberals.

Last edited Sat Aug 8, 2015, 10:42 PM - Edit history (1)

Do what? What can a "liberal white supremacist" do? I've been ready for years, tell me where to sign. This is turning out not to be a sincere movement.

of a few. Although I do wonder why more politicians aren't being targeted.

Bernie is vilified for talking too much about economics, his supporters cast as harassers for using his record to defend him, but what BLMSeattle did and said is a-ok.

Thanks for the laugh. I needed it.

Works for me.

...speak to them.

I suggest you not make such dishonest generalizations. Disagreeing with this action is not equivalent to disavowing the entire movement.

We've seen it often enough when criticizing a specific policy of the President's makes you a "hater".

...you've spoken to a few of them. This kind of vitriol can take on a life of its own. Maybe it'll calm down here by morning...I rec'ed your post, btw.

It seems as if you can barely contain your glee with the title of this OP. Right now in Seattle there is a mixed crowd really excited. Old and young and no one talking about the events today.

...maybe you should direct that to the folks here lashing out at BLM.

Where you see 'glee' I don't know, but you're now lashing out at me. Get a grip.

Nah, no way. never seen it before. Never. Nope.

It has been a long day.

BLM was addressed prominently by each speaker at tonight's event. Heartfully and the crowd was with them all the way. In line, for at least 45 minutes, I did not hear one mention of today's event and the "evil" BLM. (if you have read any of my posts, you will see I have never bashed them and do not consider them evil)

Why? Because protest is not uncommon here, even at white supremacists.

There is a big granola crowd that rinses out it Whole Food tins thoroughly and they have helped gentrify this city. We all do need to see how we live impacts others. White liberals and even me, don't like to feel bad.

But we are bad in some ways and while we as a collective worry about our carbon imprint, we also need to worry about how our lifestyle impacts the poorer population. (Which is actually me.)

And..if you consider that lashing out, I apologize. I felt as if I was stopping a meme that does nothing to promote any real dialog on this site. Just entrenchment all the way around.

And he has done the most with his policies to help black people.

Mostly its confusion, we don't simply understand, thats why so many of us wonder if they are for another candidate and trying to take him down like Meagan with Trump.

I personally support a movement to help blacks but not like this.

Fuck that.

... for a candidate having trouble connecting with AAs than his own supporters waging war on BLM?

Apparently in BernieWorld, this makes perfect sense.

to admit that if the shoe were on the other foot, and Hillary and her supporters were cast as the enemies of PoC, that they too would be rather frustrated. Are you a person of such character?

... among AAs/minorities since he announced.

Why do you suppose that is? Is it Bernie's fault that his message isn't capturing AA support - or is it the fault of AAs?

If any group of people are "casting BS as the enemy", I would suggest you ask them why they feel that way.

How can you care about fighting racism when you still defend that welfare bill and when you take Wall Street money?

It's not possible to stand with the streets AND mix in the suites, after all.

You're either with the people or you're with the 1%.

I know you have an amazing way with words, Nance. I usually feel so inspired by your posts. Today everything is uspside down.

What a mess.

I'm black. I love Bernie. And I don't think he's the problem. Republicans must be loving this.

But that doesn't change the fact that BS has been having a problem connecting with AAs - and the poll numbers show that.

And solving that "problem" - whatever it is, whatever it stems from - is not being helped by BS supporters stating that people who are speaking out on issues that so negatively affect their daily lives shouldn't be heard, or are targeting him at HRC's behest.

It would behoove Mr. Sanders to examine WHY he is not connecting with minorities, instead of ignoring the obvious FACT that he is not.

Your candidate spent most of the Nineties backing the DLC, a group that fought mainly to keep AA's out in the cold in the Democratic Party.

She may have that support, but she's done nothing to deserve it.

And she's not even more electable than Bernie anymore.

... better with AAs than he is?

Is it their fault he's not?


As for the "what about your candidate" remark, I find it very telling when a BS supporter can't discuss their own candidate without bringing HRC into the discussion. Is BS not capable of standing his own ground without being compared to someone else?

HRC is in the discussion because, as it happens, she gets most of the AA support at the moment. She's done nothing that I can see to deserve it(she never fought for AA issues as First Lady and has always been a "tough on crime"-why do three or four little speeches about racism since January make up for years of indifference?) but currently gets it. Fine. I accept that. It doesn't prove Bernie's campaign is illegitimate and shouldn't be happening, and it doesn't prove Bernie deservs AA hostility.

What a lot of us have reacted to is that Bernie has been the victim of an orchestrated smear on race(even over the racial composition of the crowd at his campaign kickoff, something that was totally irrelevant and happenstance)...he has never had a single blemish on his record of fighting bigotry, has always opposed police violence and all forms of institutional racism, and never done anything to deserve being singled out for attack and pressure on racial issues.

And we are also reacting to what looks like an undeserved blm vendetta against Bernie...and what looks like a belief on their part that the success of the anti-racist agenda depends somehow on Bernie being driven out of the race-never mind that a Democratic presidential race without Bernie would only be something that rich white men could benefit from.

It's not as if AA interests are ever actually served by the less-progressive candidate beating the more progressive one in the Democratic primary.

After posting this little gem: "HRC made herself the pro-slaughter candidate. That's what pledging to do "whatever it takes" means on "keep(ing) this country safe," - you are claiming you don't "use rhetoric like that"?

"A Democratic presidential race without Bernie would only be something that rich white men could benefit from" - nope, no over-the-top rhetoric there either.

"Bernie has been the victim of an orchestrated smear on race ..." Well, according to the BS supporters here on DU, Bernie has been "the victim" on an almost daily basis since he announced. The conspiracy theories abound here tonight, as they have done for weeks whenever Bernie's name gets mentioned.

Everyone is "out to get him" - the PTB, the DNC, HRC, Bill, Obama, the media, the pundits - everyone.

Poor Bernie.

You do agree attacks on Bernie on that are completely unjustifiable, don't you?

And how could you possibly think a campaign without Bernie would be better? Or that anyone other than rich white men would have benefited from such a campaign?

Why do you feel such contempt for the most principled, uncompromised candidate in the race? I know you don't support him, but why act like he shouldn't even be running.

Would YOU even have cared very much about this campaign if nobody had challenged HRC in the primaries? Do you think any real issues would have been discussed, any real passion?

It would matter from the standpoint of things not getting worse, but why pretend anything else important would happen?

There are black conservatives, Obama being the prominant example, but his followers are persuaded that blacks should be steered away from social justice as well.

... comments I have ever seen posted on DU - and believe me, nowadays there are a LOT of ridiculous posts to choose from.

I am going to be charitable and assume your remarks stem from incredible ignorance, rather than stupidity - or something even worse.

I can't tell you how many posts I read here and think the poster forgot to add the tag.

Some of these comments are an embarrassment.

And they really continue to wonder, why Bernie?

Here goes another one for the books.

They could protest a Clinton event. Or even better an Obama or Lynch event since those two can actually do something before January 2017.

Somehow, they haven't quite managed to do any of those. How odd.

I guess noticing that makes me a white supremacist.

Bernie's not selfish-- he's willing to share BLM's attention with Hillary.

who care about their cause.

I don't appreciate and support a movement that treats people with disrespect.

I don't expect the leaders of this movement to be Gandhi or MLK but this bullying
and alienating style wins no one over.

Bernie is not "humble enough".....#bowdownbernie

Why would anyone want to associate with a group that adopts this strategy?

that hopes to get change would put out but the kind that is meant to do something else. Wish someone could trace where that one originated.

it has a really bad feel to it.....hopefully this isn't representative of the BLM movement nationwide

Your advice? Already done that.

My candidate? I am following. I'm hoping to actually get to listen to him at his next rally.

I don't think those two women, or even all of BLM Seattle, represent all of BLM or all of Black Americans, and I still don't want Black men, women, and children being incarcerated on trumped up charges or harmed in any way. I don't want those lives lost. So I'm still supporting the movement.

I don't support today's action. I don't think it helps that movement. Today, I'm told this:

If they want to play partisan games to support a candidate that will hurt them, they are welcome to do so. Alone.

The rest of us will continue to do the heavy lifting for the equality movement.

He's never done anything to deserve this treatment.

I can't think of a single good reason for it.

that shows Bernie's life long support of the Black people and their advancement as irrelevant.
They then go on to say I should STFU and learn what they want me to do.
It is a bunch of Damned if you do Damned if you don't BS.

doing a grave injustice to the Black lives matter movement. I also don't believe that most supporters of the movement support these tactics.

I sincerely hope they stop using these tactics and that this doesn't crush the movement because it is needed more than ever.

Here is a great article from the BBC on why it is so badly needed:

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33765871

Ferguson: The other young black lives laid to rest in Michael Brown's cemetery
By Jessica Lussenhop BBC News Magazine

Why don't they go after the guy who said "white lives matter, too?

That line was worse than anything Sanders has ever done or said.

distinct and separate from the real BLMSeattle.

The organization's facebook page "link:https://www.facebook.com/BLMSeattle"
is brand new and has almost no photos. Read comments: "FAKE PAGE... FRAUD". "BS page", "REPORT this fake page trying to monopolize on a real issue for likes. This page is NOT affiliated with the real Seattle BLM. Click on the cover photo to report!! Don't let like seekers exploit the BLM movement."

I'm across the continent and have no way of finding out the facts, but time will tell. And supporters of the disruptive BLMSeattle & its shutdown of Sanders are risking their DU credibility.

Last edited Sun Aug 9, 2015, 11:56 AM - Edit history (1)

It's not too hard to find Marissa Johnson quoted in news articles about Seattle BLM events since last fall.

And here she is in January:

I don't have time to watch it all now, but what I saw of her here I liked.

Bernie will be up.

I'm not angry, I'm ecstatic!

To characterize Sanders supporters like that is surprising.

"So now it's all-out war against BLM for Sanders supporters?"

have a hidden agenda. Just sayin.

I fully support BLM but I think what people are talking about are some 'members' who are trying to stir.

If that is all out war, so be it.

I don't appreciate them one bit. And neither should any Democrat. Their stated goal may be noble and desirable, but whoever is calling the shots for the movement is a dolt. They are doing more harm than good, by a large margin.

And I also don't care whether Sanders is reacting harshly to them or not. That's his call. Mine is that BLM is run by clueless, bigmouth asshats.

There's a real anger there, a chortling at poking a stick in the eye of white progressives, on Twitter.

I will always support the cause of ending police brutality and militarization and racial injustice. But I wouldn't call myself a supporter of BLM.

At the moment, I think the most respectful thing I can do regarding BLM is stand back and leave them alone. They don't want me as an ally.

Your group is quite disgusting

I don't appreciate or support that, and am frankly amazed you think anyone should.

Anyone who says they are, from what I can currently make out.

I certainly support the idea.

This was posted as a reply to me in another thread. Meet their new enemy. Well worth the watch.

https://m.

I wish every Bernie supporter would watch this and take Bernie out of the equation.

It isn't about Bernie, Hillary or the RW.

If you can stop and really listen to her, you would see an enlightened leader. Truly. The point is to get sh*t changed.

Agitation works. It does.

She is like a few people I know protesting different issues here. Asking nicely isn't going to do it.


I do wish that Hillary had arrived in an open forum first, though...

heh

When it comes to Bernie it appears Johnson is about Bernie when she posts #bowdownbernie

And she accused the audience in Seattle of white supremacist liberalism when they preferred to hear from their invited speaker.

Must we all bow down to Johnson?

No

But we better listen and work for the change that is the aim.

He is just the weakness in the wall that is being used to break through.

It is about achieving the goal of making Black Lives Matter.

To stop the "kidnapping" (what a great word she used) of Black people by Police. They are then taken either a few steps or all the way to jail and brutalized, killed.

There is a train of thought that this system cannot be worked on anymore and the best way is just to break it down. There are people who will vote (if they do) for the most outrageous candidate to hurry the collapse along.

They don't believe Bernie will change the status quo. So him or Hillary or Trump or Walker, doesn't matter.


All of us need to go up to a global view of the situation, which isn't the fact that Bernie has been heckled off stage. It is about looking at the whole process of "electing" people who may or may not change a damn thing.

I am for the process of electing Bernie. But I am aware of so many different points of view on electing someone, anyone.

It is so not about BS, Hillary, President Obama, or Martin O'Malley.. but, it is how they respond to it.. and Al Giordano makes a good case that this is going to keep happening

snip//

Instead too many of you are on Twitter right now whitesplaining and lecturing and talking down to black folks and people of all hues who happen to see this through the lens of the same team. Oh, yeah, that's a real bright idea for winning this campaign. Let's go on Twitter and troll the black people about how they don't understand Bernie.

Bernie handled it badly again today. He left the stage and went shaking hands among the white people in the crowd. He told a reporter that the protesters "don't want to listen to anything." Just like in Phoenix, he ran.

Contrast that will how Martin O'Malley handled the #BlackLivesMatter Protest in Phoenix .. he shut up. sat down and listened, and listened a lot more. Went through out to conference all the damn day seeking to listen to people of color who would talk to him. And, since then he has put out the most progressive and detailed policy proposals on controlling police violence, prison and criminal justice reform and related matters. You don't see people protesting at his rallies. They probably will soon enough but, he'll know how to respond unlike your guy."

Much more.. worth the read.. https://www.tsu.co/AlGiordano/75250428

War? Where's this war?

important than this movement and those affected by it. It is a hell of a thing to see.

But I'm grateful they're being so blatant about all of this. Glad they've dispersed with the "we love and care about you" crap that's full of all kinds of shit. Honesty allows everyone to plan and adjust accordingly.

or just white liberals supporting Berine?

Saying we are all at war with BLM. Nothing is further from the truth.

I support Sanders and believe he has the best ideas. Sanders has the right to run his campaign without harassment. That's all we are asking. Apparently that is too much.

Just BLM making a long shot candidate even longer shot for no clearly described reason.

BLM seems like a pretty amateur and ineffective movement at this point. They aren't gaining traction, and I don't see a Clinton presidency as a victory for the issues they care about.

They are turning off a lot of white liberal allies, IMHO.

I've been making signs to march with. With the recent Confederate monuments law passed in my state, I just bought a 34 circle round union flag to carry in my next march by the Confederate flag wielders. I'm still going to defend myself against being told I'm unconcerned about Black lives mattering or because I support Bernie Sanders, I'm some sort of white supremacist that only cares about economic injustice. If either BLM or the Democratic Party keeps attacking me or others or Sanders himself, nothing is going to change in my actions either to continue the protests or defending us against falsehoods. All I'm currently being convinced of in this election cycle is any organized political party today is no change agent.

I wonder who would benefit from that?

and obeying?

Are we not supposed to notice that BLM is attacking the most liberal candidate in both parties? Are we not supposed to wonder why? We can't question that? Apparently all we're supposed to do is "shut up" and do whatever we're told.

Fuck that. If BLM wants mindless, unquestioned obedience, they can go look for it with the right-wing.

But find their methods wrong. Why would I want to help a group that refers to substantial portions of the Democratic party as white supremacists?

Berating people is rarely a positive approach to getting them to do what you want.

I support fewer blacks getting killed by cops, more black kids going to college, ending barriers in employment and getting more minorities into political power. But that doesn't mean I'm going to take them seriously if they call me or others who are at least generally supportive of their goals racist. And I'm not likely to be open to working with them. I'll find other ways.

A number of people who pass themselves off as his supporters are currently trying to relabel BLM as a paid off shrill movement, though just who is doing the paying varies from person to person. The most popular one though seems to be Hillary.

tbh, I consider Bernie to be the better candidate but Hillary to have the less suckish supporters. Seeing some of the crap being posted by supposed Bernie supporters makes me ashamed to call myself a supporter.

liberal white supremacists? Any respect I may have had, or empathy felt for this group is now gone. They can shit on all the white progressive they want, but jack shit isn't going to happen without them pressuring the black conservative in the White House, and it's pretty evident that isn't going to happen any time soon.

question or has already. Of course you express your support for the BLM movement and ask what we can do to help. I thought that was a given. When we wake up to the news of another black citizen shot dead by police practically every day, you can understand why the BLM is so angry.

BLM Seattle? BLM New York? BLM USA? Is there even a BLM organization? Apparently not, if various posters here are to be believed -- they are saying no one from BLM could possibly be expected to apologize for Bernie's treatment yesterday in Seattle, or even comment on it, because decentralized.

In the meantime, we have discovered that Marissa Johnson, the (apparently self-appointed) spokesperson for BLM Seattle, is an extreme Christian who "used to" support Sarah Palin. Things that make you go "Hmmm"...

Also it does not appear that Johnson's action yesterday has garnered much support for the Black Lives Matter cause, just look at the replies to her press release posted yesterday on the BLM Seattle Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/BLMSeattle/posts/716844418437393

If I were a member of BLM at whatever, I'd look long and hard at that reaction. Then I'd ask myself: did this further my cause, or did it erode support?

for "Sanders supporters".

...this has taken on a life of its own.

Yes, there is a war on BLM being waged by mostly Sanders supporters here (who make up the vast majority of posters) and it's made this forum toxic. I'm now wondering about the wisdom of associating myself with this site, itself.

Way to go, DU.

I've been called a "white racist liberal" multiple times in the past 24 hours.

I've come very close to telling some long-time acquaintances "good luck and have a good life."

But I think that the situation outside of Seattle actually mirrors the situation in Seatlle. There is a minority of "disruptors" who are driving the disruption.

I'm not at war with BLM. I have friends active in the movement and would consider myself an ally of the movement without hesitation -- as I'm sure nearly all of us at DU would. I don't have a beef with someone who has a different perspective on the incident in Seattle. Nor do I have a beef with someone who has a different opinion on Bernie Sanders or his character, ethics, or record.

But there are some people who have lost all reason and restraint concerning this matter. Them I have a problem with, but I'm not at war.

I know what you're saying, though.