He's forced to choose between cutting foodstamps or shutting down the govt.

Clinton, Sanders, O'Malley, doesn't matter. Nothing will get done unless we work to take back congress also, nothing.

Name a Dem POTUS that this hasn't happened to, in one way or another.

I can't think of one, not even Big Dog.

but he had Texas sized balls!!

Some old school sleeves-rolled-to-mid-arm-palooka if you get my meaning.

and who was NOT willing to commit US ground forces to a decade-long
war in Viet Nam ..

Yes, once Kennedy was out of the way, Johnson did sign some
important legislation for racial minorities.

It was his fig-leaf, for the history books.

to get things done. Obamas first two years were pretty easy compared to now.

The question is what do the Sanders supporters who got so mad at Obama's compromise do when Bernie has to do the same things to get anything done, at least till we take back the House which isn't going to happen during his first term.

nor throw him under the bus.

Fooling nobody but other fools.

personally, i do not set myself up in that manner. but no... i think it is a legitimate question.

No POTUS has more powers than the POTUS has.

LOL, if Obama cannot make Republicans magically vote for single payer, the idea Bernie can is utterly hilarious.

Just the latest Messiah. Not looking for a President, but a benign dictator. Apparently it's just a matter of the cult of personality. Find a strong enough personality and the voters go along with what he or she wants, period and Congress rolls over. Well, that's not going to be Bernie Sanders.

Sen. Sanders will take to the airwaves and educate the electorate on the issue and implore them to activate and get involved in their government. If you had been paying attention, you'd have already known this as it's part of his stump speech. The part in each speech where he says not even the greatest president in the world can do it alone. It will take a political revolution. It's also the part of his speech where he points out that Obama made a grave mistake by not harnessing the excitement and energy of his campaign and use it to activate the electorate in support of his endeavors. Again, this is part of his stump speech. He knows what's coming if he succeeds and he has a plan. Now, what will Hillary Clinton do in the same situation? A Grand Bargain?

aren't going to listen to Sanders (they also won't listen to any other Democrat).

i mean it sincerely, though it may not sound like it.

i am not so.... (without being condescending), i do not have the faith in the american people. but.... it is an interesting stance and lets see what he does with it.

i do appreciate it. i am glad i took the time to read your post.

but just a little bit of thinking on this track gives me a better understanding to where my focus has been. the narrow focus, middle class and working class and the supporters and their manner.

interesting. thank you

Given the state of our media, I'm afraid the 'revolution' won't be televised, and taking over political blogs will not be enough to convince the masses. Sounds like a 'teaparty' style revolution, but without the Trinitron screens, Koch money or a conservative media willing to cover it.

well, i can try, but we all have our agenda and not all are going to walk on the high side, and sure enough majority rules and minority loses.

i have little to know faith, but i better understand the expectation. also, there has to be a feeling of the possibility of success in order to create. so i can get how people are going around believing in these things when i am saying. .... huh. lol

it is interesting.

However I really don't think that what the voters think, even if they let the republican know their views, is going to change the fact that they will NOT be doing anything at all the help Bernie get things done, not without some kind of compromise, it just won't happen. Do you really think republicans care about what the voters think?

their base and vote.

they are not being punished anywhere

Some do not like the answer. I'm fine with that. Also, thank you for answering the "What would Hillary do?" (You answered with "I don't know&quot

I am not one of her supporters, but I do think that all three of them WILL compromise if they become president, and I think that those who support O'Malley and Clinton understand that has to happen before things can get accomplished. From looking at a lot of post in this thread, I don't think some of those who claim to be Bernie supporters will be so understanding.

He's educating the public.

His campaign is already succeeding in it's challenge of the establishment and the 'business as usual' status quo.

You still won't be able to make republicans do what you want them to do. The house has been so gerrymandered that republicans there can do whatever they want, the will of their corporate masters, ignore those you have educated, and still keep their office. It won't matter who many people complain as long as their bas votes for them, and they will.

the 2016 election, spending his time and effort to help them get elected? this is another question i have.

we might not have a country if the Republicans hold the house that long

To those who never bother to vote in off years.

He recently said that he has voted in the past and may vote in the future. He doesn't believe in voting just for the sake of voting. I don't agree with him because I think we actually do need to vote for the lesser of evils sometimes but that wikipedia article is out of date.

the dems might start winning their seats back. The sooner the better.

The senate, yes, but not the house not in his first term. If he wants to accomplish anything in his first term, he will have to compromise, just like Obama had to. So will the same people who trashed Obama for "compromise" also trash Bernie?

it is the best chance.

Bully pulpit.

Veto pen.

Executive orders.

According to the Sanders strategy at least as I've heard it articulated....in previous elections a large percentage of the population doesn't bother to vote....for a variety of reasons (think the system is rigged, no one represents their interests, etc. among others). Yet the issues that Sanders is running on (that the average politician doesn't touch) are the issues that the majority of Americans agree on. Sanders' plan is to tap into that segment of the electorate....and to cultivate coattails.

Last edited Sun Aug 16, 2015, 10:17 PM - Edit history (1)

the issue.

we do not all want the same thing.

azzzzz well. i better understand. but i am too pragmatic. prove me wrong.

who live on pure love and fart glitter.

who wouldnt want one of these.

Look, I know this is going to be lost on you, but ...

Bernie is a long shot to win the dem nomination, and will be lucky to beat the stupid to win POTUS ...

But, somehow HE is going to "win the house and senate?"

Dude, I like Bernie a lot, am voting for him and he is the best we can do for POTUS, but this is just fantastical thinking.

look at it this way.....unless there is a tremendous groundswell for Bernie, he has no chance to win at all. His strategy is to convert working class whites who are voting against their interest, and motivate current non voters to vote for him.

I've looked at the numbers in the House......and there are about 50 house seats that are within striking distance if there is a Democratic wave. We only need about 30 to take the house.

If his strategy works, he will deliberately nationalize the election and call for a Democratic House and Senate and we will take the House and Senate.

If his strategy does not work, he won't even win the nomination.

If Bernie wins the nomination and wins POTUS, the most likely scenario is that has the same exact congress as BHO has, with a shot at maybe getting the senate back.

The House is gone for a long time, most likely, due to redistricting.

I live in Pa, we had a democrat win the governorship in a landslide, and the Rs maintained a 12 to 5 hold on house seats this last election.

It isn't all or nothing as you portray it.

His message and his relentlessness in sticking to it can win HIM the presidency, but this isn't 06 or 08 when the democratic party and country had Iraq and Bush to vote against and ride that tide for the house and senate.

As stupid ass bullshit as it is, the republican's/jackass media, have poisoned BHO to the public, and there just is not the energy there at all to get the kind of super sized "wave" that would be necessary to flip the house.

I know people want to believe "bernie" is a revolution, but it isn't. It is going to mostly be isolated to the presidential race, and he has a WHOLE LOT OF fucking stupid to beat just to get himself to 1600 Pa, he isn't going to get the people of this country to think big picture with congress and all ...

Each district's voters do.

he is going to ask.

more along the lines of Truman when he said..."The country can't afford another Republican Congress"

to beat the stupid and get POTUS ...

Bernie is awesome, but he is a long shot to win the dem nomination and people have the white house curtins measured and a majority in congress to go with it?

he has abundant successful experience dealing with intransigent legislators. I still see complaints from some Marylanders (and DUers) who appear not to understand the necessity for compromise.

Their idea of compromise is cutting benefits a little instead of a lot. The poor can't afford anymore "compromise".

Get things done in their first term?

maybe even more so.

upper hand i think.

and we sure as hell aren't going to compromise our way out of it. I for one am tired of seeing Democrats exchanging tax breaks and deregulation for not cutting social services even though they get cut anyway. It's time to stick our progressive flag in the ground and DEFEND IT. Enough is enough! Go Bernie!

Were you asleep in the eighties when Tip O'Neil and a democratically controlled House and Senate basically served up Reagans' anti government, pro corporate agenda on a silver platter? Every president since has continued this rightward drift in both parties and quite frankly, I'm sick and tired of it. Bernie has a long track record of siding with people over corporate power and that is the root of most of our problems. So forgive me for supporting my guy.

Works for you?

I was barely able to keep a roof over our heads in the last recession. Another recession like that is almost too awful to think about.

When it's done for the right reasons like protecting the middle class and not just the latest right wing freak out about stupid shit like defunding ObamaCare.I know Bernie will side with us and not with those who have gotten us into this mess. I think there is a progressive movement that is ready to explode in this country and Bernie is the guy to lead it because he has been leading it for 50 years. President Sanders would do everything within his power to rally public support to his side and force change not just promise it.

Some think that shutting down the government is such a great idea, but it's not. What about all those people who won't be getting a paycheck? I take it you won't be one of them. If Bernie has been leading this movement for 50 years, why haven't we seen change yet? It's not as easy as you might seem to run the country, make sure people get their benefits, paychecks, etc, and still lead some kind of revolution by shutting things down for who knows how long. It just doesn't work that way. The my way or the highway thinking doesn't work.

Sometimes, yes, it is necessary to take a stand and not compromise with fools, idiots, and wankers.

the government simply does not function that way

Without compromise, nothing gets done.

Which is exactly what has happened with President Obama: non-stop, intractable obstruction. Regaining control of the House and Senate is essential; otherwise it'll just be more gridlock. That's what the GOP does to Democrats; doesn't matter who they are.

Regaining control of the House and the Senate is essential, but not likely for the first term of whoever wins, Bernie, Hillary or O'Malley. Until then compromise is going to be necessary, no mater who is the president.

He doesn't have a chance in hell!

This meme always centers around Senator Sanders as if only he will have this problem.

Any Dem president will have to face off with the Republicans.

I am thinking Sanders will be able to handle it the best as he will have
the voice of the people just like FDR had.

And I have faith that, unlike Clinton, he will not agree to any compromise that sells out Social Security, Medicare or any of the programs people need.

He said that after Obama got elected, he said, "I've got this now," and turned to congress for understanding. Bernie can (if anything) gather a crowd. He can also address the population effectively.

No matter what he does, he sounds like an anti-politician!

--imm

But rather that many of Sanders's supporters will have strokes when he behaves like every single other President in history and deals with the reality of the actual situation.

what she thought of sanders. upper middle class, university, white, she falls in his demographics.

she told me she likes him. she doesnt think he can win. and she does not think he will be able to implement any of the proposals he is making.

that was just conversation. and she was not about flame baiting. it was political conversation.

I would have no problem with him as president, nor would I have a problem with him having to do some compromising to get things done until we can gain control of both the House and the Senate. I think some here think he can do everything without compromise, and that's just not going to happen.

refusing any and all compromise like sharing economic equality with social issues even at the cost of a vote. so one of the checks on my list to not vote for the guy is him being bullheaded and literally not accomplishing a damn thing.

Are you afraid to answer the question? Were you one of those posters who got so mad when Obama had to compromise?

No matter who wins the nomination, republicans WILL be in control of at least the House for their first term. No matter who is in the WH, they will have to compromise to get things done, it's a fact that they all have to face, and I for one want to know who is willing to get things done, even if they have to do some compromise. I supported president Obama, I didn't agree on somethings, but I did realize that compromising is part of being president when you have republicans who only want to obstruct things.

puts in front of them.

intuned with addressing state power, before sanders.

and ya know. lets remember that we had bushco destroy so much of our nation and we had it with obama. after the election everyone walked away.

but... i better get the plan.

he'll have reached outside the establishment for fresh or re-invigorated voters. He'll have more leeway to do whatever he deems necessary at the time. He's a seasoned elected official, though, has been around Washington for a long time so knows the players (Obama didn't have this perk).

I may be wishfully thinking, but almost by default we'll have a unique governing situation. No one owns him.

Not overnight, but you can bet the Rs in the House will do one of two things...1) Make asses of themselves, yet again 2) Grow up and cooperate

Republican care about what the voters think? They never have, and it won't change no matter who we put in the WH. If I had a dollar for every time republicans have "claimed" they are doing the will of the people, when polls show otherwise, I would be rich.

If we have a President Sanders they likely know that many of their own voted for him. It's not Business as Usual.

Republicans in the House are not going to lose since they come from districts that have been gerrymandered for them to win in, time after time, until the next census then it can change, if democrats are in charge of redistricting those districts. Republicans will continue to work for the same corporate masters then work for now, it won't change.

some re-evaluating. And a strong President can only help.

It took 3-4 years from when Obama spoke out about LGBT, for instance, but it shifted the outlook anough to ultimately turn it around. A President does have a Bully Pulpit, Executive Orders, and favors to bestow.

pass one thing he put up.

why would sanders be different?

Obama didn't. He's white...and it pains me to say this, but that will make a difference. He's principled and has the history and fortitude to back it up. Obama was still finding his voice when elected.

One more, after this Primary vis a vis Trump, I see the Rs swagger crumbling. Who could know they would all be literally silenced...gobsmacked...by Trump...one of their own.

Never saw that coming, but it's true. Single digits for them and double for Trump. He is threatening to go it alone and leave them and their big donors hanging.

obama was not as forceful as i would have liked. but, what i did see in that was a lot of listening and positioning and he has accomplished a lot. what i do not see with sanders, is any of that. he does not seem to be one that will take that approach but dig in heels. all or nothing.

BUT....

i am glad i am listening to you all in this thread.

and ya.... it will be interesting where the repugs go from here.

i have heard obama and clinton though at least discussing the issue of gerrymandering and one step forward was done on that. states and gerrymandering is crucial i feel. and now with repugs so weak, too important to move on those.

much more weakened, IMO, by the Primary than the Ds. Regardless of what seems to be going around here about Bernie supporters being irritating or rude...and I apologize for those who are... I and many others will vote D no matter who wins. I think the Rs are not so much there, as I don't see anyone within striking distance who can win.

And if it's Trump...well, just throw out all the old tried and true and boring crap. It's a new Game.

personally i find it all fascinating and all a learning process for me. awfully stimulating. and.... i think we are in a wonderful place, we have not ever sat in my lifetime. i think the dem is ours to win. i am good with all our candidates, though may be more comfortable with some than others.

but. i like the actual process and dissecting that process from a campaign run to what people are actually saying and not saying.

thank you

a joy.

... the expectations Bernie is setting up for himself is of the 20,000 issues out there he'll never compromise on one of them or the far left will hate him too.

to look at with any certainty. But being in office and getting re-elected as he has, infers that he knows something about not only working with folks, but setting up the environment to encourage it.

And a lot depends on what kind of mandate he comes in with. He's not just a Leftist. If he gets in, it will be an assortment of folks, rather than one party or the other.

I just think it's going to be a whole new ballgame, if he makes it there. That, alone, gives me some hope.

... southern wingers are NOTHING like northern wingers something I get the impression sanders is betting on.

There's nothing logical that I've read from Bernie that says things are going to be any different from when Obama was in office.

A dead locked congress that will make him compromise at every step

to try and touch them all, or at least enough to get elected. My guess is that he'll make appeals to The People a lot, get them into firing up their locals, and put pressure on from two directions.

Obama is a Democrat and was elected by Democrats. In a way, I think this is how Bernie is keeping everyone a little off balance...which I think will end up being a good strategy.

He is right when he says people are sick of the Status Quo...and he's clearly not that. He's an Independent running mostly parallel to the Democratic structure. That's new and uncharted territory. I think it's brilliant.

He's not owned...and that's a first in our two-party system. It will be interesting, of that I'm sure.

... have to worry about their pols being elected any longer for a while because of gerrymandering there's no preassure to be put on them.

Bernie cant claim independent running as a democrat, even intimating such in any way doesn't make sense... "I'm really not one of them" doesn't sound like a winning strategy.

On getting the republican congress to go along with his program I'll wait and see but right now I have my money on Sanders becoming the new POSUCS if he ever one office

I've been constantly amazed at how many people act like the GOP is against Obama because they don't approve of his policies. They are against Obama because his is black and they represent a base that they beleive is racist. Some of them may well be racists themselves. Remember the asshole who called him a liar at the State of the Union speech? DId he do that because he had a deep rooted philosophical objection to Obama's policy or did he do that because calling blacks names is what people like him do?

Sanders is a Jew (at least by birth) and if we had not had a black president that would be enough to make things difficult for him BUT the GOPukes were/are determined to do whatever they can to make sure Obama is the last black president. If their objections and opposition were based on principles and conviction things might be different but when they are based on racism and prejudice ANY white guy would be able to work with them better.

I guess some people on this board don't agree with me but I'm celebrating my 70th birthday on September 2 and frankly, my dear(s), I don't give a damn. I've known these right wing assholes since I was in high school, back in 1960, and this blatant racism has always been part and parcel of their world view since before I encountered them.

I imagine someone will likely "alert" this post because I started it off the way I did but what does that matter, really? I'm going to spend the next year trying to get Bernie Sanders elected. I actually do believe that he is the last chance this nation has to prevent fascism becoming the law of the land. In as sense I feel, like a lot of his supporters do, that this is going to be like that old movie with Redford and Newman, charging out in the face of overwhelming odds.

You may have a point. That may be why republicans have gotten away with so much in your face, offensively outrageous bullshit.

It will be interesting to see if that is the case. Though Clinton is more likely a win and then it will be because she is a woman.

I'm a child of the VietNam era (more accurately labeled the VietNam ERROR) and like a lot of my peers I was very surprised when I got to the age (over thirty) where I couldn't trust myself.

And, yes, I really do believe these assholes are racists and I really do believe this nation is heading into fascism.

wishful thinking.

2 ain't happening. end of story.
1 WILL happen.

Either way, whatever "invigorated" voters put him there will do the same as BHO voters did, get burnt out by a 2 year POTUS election and go back to their lives while congress dicks around.

I do agree Bernie would likely start from a better position than BHO in terms of where he was with things, but end of the day, he will have the same congress to work with - complete and total resistance to the SOCIALIST from the Rs, and a worthless, cowardly democratic side of the isle.

Republicans have been acting like jackasses, more and more openly, for going on three decades now, and this country has only punished them one time - 06 and 08, and then turned around and gave them the biggest mid term win we have seen in a long time in 10 ...

They can do wtf they want, almost literally, and this country could give a fuck.

If this is a question for you, then I don't think you are fully grasping what the Senator's campaign is about.

His goal is to have a large grassroots contingent available to get the congress's attention. They will cooperate or they will be gone in the mid-term.

I doubt if the issue was large, like expanding medicare, that he would hesitate to call for a march and have 100,000+ show up in DC to get the attention of the legislature.

How do you get rid of republicans in the house who are in districts that have been gerrymandered so they can't lose? Do you really think that republicans would even listen to the voters? They haven't so far, and they are still in charge of the House.

Oh, that is so pie in the sky I can't believe it.

Republicans don't care about marches. The MSM won't cover marches. They prefer shootings. And people stay away from the polls in droves when it comes to midterm elections. I've done the phone banking, the poll watching, the calling. It is grueling and disappointing work much of the time.

I don't really see much movement to mobilize. Going to a rally and yelling Bernie's name is not enough.

I was at a county Democratic picnic and fundraiser today. There were a couple hundred people there. Most of them were blue collar people, teachers, small business owners, and retired people. They are the people who do the work day in day out, year in year out. They work as precinct committeemen. They work to elect state and local Democrats. They are there with their time and money. They don't come out of the woodwork only when there is a national election.

These people are the REAL grassroots. And let me tell you, if you only show up every four years when there is a Presidential election, you are no kind of Democrat, no member of the grassroots.

I met no Bernie supporters today. Not. A. Single. One.

Bernie is like science, you don't have to believe it for it to work.

Don't lecture me on the REAL grassroots. What you describe is machine politics and your true scotsman attitude is part of the problem.

The times they are a changing.

You don't know what you are talking about. We don't have that in rural Illinois.

And there is a big difference between marching and mobilizing the so-called grassroots. I am talking about governing. You are talking about walking around with signs and being all dreamy at rallies.

What you are calling machine politics is governing. Dream on.

Without compromising his principles.

But don't worry, there will be plenty of things to criticize him on, and to push him on.