Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

last1standing

(11,709 posts)
Mon Aug 17, 2015, 05:39 PM Aug 2015

2008 vs. 2016 The More Things Change, The More They Stay The Same.

I'll keep this short, since I almost never post at DU anymore...

In 2008 Team Hillary told us we had to vote for her to protect hard-working, white folk.

In 2016 Team Hillary is telling us we have to vote for her to protect minorities from the same people she was pandering to in 2008.

Speaking only for myself, I couldn't post the divisive, hateful posts that are being smeared across DU and other sites, slandering the only person in the Democratic primary who has always stood up for minority rights 100% of the time, and never used race as a sledgehammer wedge to discourage voters, like some have been doing.

I couldn't just couldn't do that and still have any pride or respect for myself.

Hillary has a lot of great qualities, but her campaign's eagerness to destroy the reputations those who oppose her path to power disqualifies her as presidential material and the more I see of her tactics, the less I see myself being able to hold my nose for her in the general.

TL;DR: I'm disgusted by Team Hillary.

42 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
2008 vs. 2016 The More Things Change, The More They Stay The Same. (Original Post) last1standing Aug 2015 OP
Never Good Enough, Bernie! MannyGoldstein Aug 2015 #1
????from a Bernie fan daybranch Aug 2015 #10
It's sarcasm. MannyGoldstein Aug 2015 #11
Hey Manny! last1standing Aug 2015 #18
Huh? Cali_Democrat Aug 2015 #2
past behavior is a pretty strong indicator of future behavior cali Aug 2015 #3
it's called projection lol nt msongs Aug 2015 #4
I think the real question is whether Team Hllary is truly in the dark... last1standing Aug 2015 #6
I was pro-Obama from early 2007. I'm pro-Hillary now. DanTex Aug 2015 #5
I respect that answer, even though I disagree with it. last1standing Aug 2015 #7
She isn't above it....nt artislife Aug 2015 #9
No. Like her husband, she has great potential but her flaws are greater. last1standing Aug 2015 #19
I had to read Goethe's Faust for German artislife Aug 2015 #25
One of my favorite pieces of literature. But that Faust , like Hillary, is complicated. Vattel Aug 2015 #29
She is complicated. last1standing Aug 2015 #35
And Salmon P Chase awoke_in_2003 Aug 2015 #14
personal slurs are all the PUMAS have Doctor_J Aug 2015 #8
OMG. You are so right. It's not azmom Aug 2015 #12
Well spoken and accurate Hydra Aug 2015 #13
There will always be some who have no loyalty to principle, only power. last1standing Aug 2015 #16
I know, I don't know how they sleep well at night either Hydra Aug 2015 #20
They sleep like babies hootinholler Aug 2015 #41
Three things you say could use a little bit more elaboration - I think they're incorrect. Thanks. George II Aug 2015 #15
You don't have to believe a fact for it to be true. last1standing Aug 2015 #17
No, I'm well aware of that "concept", I just haven't seen those three "facts" in real life. George II Aug 2015 #22
Perhaps you haven't been looking. last1standing Aug 2015 #23
So you can elaborate those three to "educate" me perhaps? Otherwise I call...............forget it. George II Aug 2015 #24
If you don't know about them, there's nothing I can do to educate you. last1standing Aug 2015 #26
I've been a "proponent of all three"? If I don't believe any of them without elaboration... George II Aug 2015 #27
Many republicans don't believe in climate change, but they still contribute to it. last1standing Aug 2015 #28
Now I'm a "republican"? George II Aug 2015 #30
Are you? last1standing Aug 2015 #31
You seem to have already made that accusation - I've been a Democrat for about 45... George II Aug 2015 #33
If you're looking to take offence, I have no problem with you taking it from my posts. last1standing Aug 2015 #34
I'm not going to bother holding my nose. Fuddnik Aug 2015 #21
There comes a point when the lesser of evils is still too evil. last1standing Aug 2015 #39
You got me thinking - at what point will we hear about the hard-working Christians who support her? CanadaexPat Aug 2015 #32
If it will help her campaign, I have no doubt that Team Hllary will be on it. last1standing Aug 2015 #36
I agree to a point. blackspade Aug 2015 #37
I'm glad you agree to a point, because I agree with you completely. last1standing Aug 2015 #38
Needed saying hootinholler Aug 2015 #40
We'll see, but I'm not bothered either way. last1standing Aug 2015 #42

daybranch

(1,309 posts)
10. ????from a Bernie fan
Mon Aug 17, 2015, 07:21 PM
Aug 2015

politics too messy or what??
I do not know much about O'Malley what are his best points??

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
11. It's sarcasm.
Mon Aug 17, 2015, 07:37 PM
Aug 2015

I suddenly noticed some people today saying that O'Malley was a good alternative to Bernie, sounded like the same kind of posts that used to tout Hillary.

 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
2. Huh?
Mon Aug 17, 2015, 05:42 PM
Aug 2015
Hillary has a lot of great qualities, but her campaign's eagerness to destroy the reputations those who oppose her path to power


Who from the Hillary campaign are you referring to and whose reputation are they seeking to destroy?

last1standing

(11,709 posts)
6. I think the real question is whether Team Hllary is truly in the dark...
Mon Aug 17, 2015, 06:00 PM
Aug 2015

...or truly so cynical that they don't care.

I won't hazard a guess which it is.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
5. I was pro-Obama from early 2007. I'm pro-Hillary now.
Mon Aug 17, 2015, 05:59 PM
Aug 2015

I was seriously upset with some of what Clinton did in 2007. But she redeemed herself by wholeheartedly supporting Obama and then with her service as SoS.

It's not 2008. One thing that is the same is that we need to do everything we can to ensure that the GOP doesn't take the White House. In 2016, that means Hillary Clinton.

last1standing

(11,709 posts)
7. I respect that answer, even though I disagree with it.
Mon Aug 17, 2015, 06:06 PM
Aug 2015

I don't respect those who smear a strong advocate of minority rights by insinuating that he's an elite racist who doesn't get it. His record, actions, and words show that he does.

I think it's great to support Hillary because she's a strong, intelligent leader who has the perseverance to see this campaign through.

But it's not acceptable to use the same race-baiting tactics as in 2008 in this campaign to destroy a good progressive. It's unnecessary and shows that her campaign people have learned nothing from the last time she ran.

last1standing

(11,709 posts)
19. No. Like her husband, she has great potential but her flaws are greater.
Mon Aug 17, 2015, 08:15 PM
Aug 2015

I believe her lust for power has overshadowed her real desire to help people. It reminds me of a Faustian deal. Once you make a deal with the devil, you can't turn your newfound power to good purpose. Everything good will be perverted.

 

Vattel

(9,289 posts)
29. One of my favorite pieces of literature. But that Faust , like Hillary, is complicated.
Mon Aug 17, 2015, 08:28 PM
Aug 2015

The one in the Faust by that English writer--dang, what's his name--is more transparent.

last1standing

(11,709 posts)
35. She is complicated.
Mon Aug 17, 2015, 08:37 PM
Aug 2015

There are a lot of good intentions behind her desire for the White House. Unfortunately, I believe she's compromised her positions to greatly that she's lost her purpose for running.

 

awoke_in_2003

(34,582 posts)
14. And Salmon P Chase
Mon Aug 17, 2015, 08:00 PM
Aug 2015

Played friendly during his time in the Lincoln administration to get himself on the Supreme Court

azmom

(5,208 posts)
12. OMG. You are so right. It's not
Mon Aug 17, 2015, 07:45 PM
Aug 2015

Like they invented racism, but they sure are exploiting it for their political purpose.



Hydra

(14,459 posts)
13. Well spoken and accurate
Mon Aug 17, 2015, 07:50 PM
Aug 2015

And yet I see the same "No we aren't! We totally didn't say that" was not far behind in here.

last1standing

(11,709 posts)
16. There will always be some who have no loyalty to principle, only power.
Mon Aug 17, 2015, 08:10 PM
Aug 2015

I don't know how they sleep at night, but their lack of honesty only helps me to understand why they're so very harmful to this nation.

Hydra

(14,459 posts)
20. I know, I don't know how they sleep well at night either
Mon Aug 17, 2015, 08:16 PM
Aug 2015

But I have to say they are the PERFECT advertisement for their candidate- makes it utterly clear what their candidate stands for, in case there was any doubt.

hootinholler

(26,449 posts)
41. They sleep like babies
Mon Aug 17, 2015, 10:13 PM
Aug 2015

They think everyone is like them, which is why their assumptions of other's motivations are always the worst scenario.

George II

(67,782 posts)
15. Three things you say could use a little bit more elaboration - I think they're incorrect. Thanks.
Mon Aug 17, 2015, 08:02 PM
Aug 2015

In 2008 Team Hillary told us we had to vote for her to protect hard-working, white folk.

In 2016 Team Hillary is telling us we have to vote for her to protect minorities from the same people she was pandering to in 2008.

Her campaign's eagerness to destroy the reputations those who oppose her path to power disqualifies her as presidential

last1standing

(11,709 posts)
17. You don't have to believe a fact for it to be true.
Mon Aug 17, 2015, 08:11 PM
Aug 2015

That appears to be a concept that some here don't quite get.

last1standing

(11,709 posts)
26. If you don't know about them, there's nothing I can do to educate you.
Mon Aug 17, 2015, 08:23 PM
Aug 2015

You've been one of the biggest proponents of all three. If you've been a proponent through ignorance, I suggest you educate yourself. If it's been for some other, less innocent purpose, I suggest you look inside for your answers.

George II

(67,782 posts)
27. I've been a "proponent of all three"? If I don't believe any of them without elaboration...
Mon Aug 17, 2015, 08:26 PM
Aug 2015

...how could I be a "proponant" for ANY of them?

last1standing

(11,709 posts)
28. Many republicans don't believe in climate change, but they still contribute to it.
Mon Aug 17, 2015, 08:27 PM
Aug 2015

Sometimes the pollution is metaphorical.

George II

(67,782 posts)
33. You seem to have already made that accusation - I've been a Democrat for about 45...
Mon Aug 17, 2015, 08:33 PM
Aug 2015

....years, which is 45 years longer than the candidate you support, one who wants the nomination from MY party even though he doesn't see fit to be a member of that party.

last1standing

(11,709 posts)
34. If you're looking to take offence, I have no problem with you taking it from my posts.
Mon Aug 17, 2015, 08:35 PM
Aug 2015

But I think I'm beginning to understand why you can't see facts. You don't appear to know what they are.

Fuddnik

(8,846 posts)
21. I'm not going to bother holding my nose.
Mon Aug 17, 2015, 08:16 PM
Aug 2015

It's still hurting and swollen from all the times I've pinched it in the past.

last1standing

(11,709 posts)
39. There comes a point when the lesser of evils is still too evil.
Mon Aug 17, 2015, 09:30 PM
Aug 2015

At what point does casting a vote for someone who supports harmful policies or uses racial hatred to get elected, make one culpable for the actions of the one they've supported?

I'm not a fan of thinking of things as binary choices. I've been a Democrat for many years but I'm no longer sure what being a Democrat means when the leaders of the party push tax cuts for the wealthy, drone strikes on American citizens, cutting social security, drilling in environmentally sensitive areas, and so on.

And I certainly don't understand Democrats who attempt character assassination on those who have helped lead the fight for civil rights.

At what point does being a good Democrat make one a bad human being?

I'm still trying to justify voting for the lesser of evils because of the Supreme Court appointments, but even that can only hold me for so long. I'm not so sure I can trust the lesser of evils to nominate less than evil justices.

CanadaexPat

(496 posts)
32. You got me thinking - at what point will we hear about the hard-working Christians who support her?
Mon Aug 17, 2015, 08:32 PM
Aug 2015

Sooner rather than later, I'd expect.

last1standing

(11,709 posts)
36. If it will help her campaign, I have no doubt that Team Hllary will be on it.
Mon Aug 17, 2015, 08:39 PM
Aug 2015

Nothing they have done suggests otherwise.

blackspade

(10,056 posts)
37. I agree to a point.
Mon Aug 17, 2015, 08:57 PM
Aug 2015

I don't think that those of us that support Sanders need to attribute every negative reaction/story/event to "Team Hillary".
Sometimes you have to take the lumps and counter them with facts.
There is no need to internalize everything.
There are several large cracks in the Democratic Party coalition. They are systemic and structural problems that lie beneath the actual candidates.
We all need to pull the wedges out, not drive them deeper.

last1standing

(11,709 posts)
38. I'm glad you agree to a point, because I agree with you completely.
Mon Aug 17, 2015, 09:04 PM
Aug 2015

Not every slight someone makes up and posts at DU and other places is coming from Hillary's organization.

That said, there's a very, very strong chance that when a smear appears to overwhelm the public discourse in a matter of days, there has been a concerted effort to make that happen. It takes a lot of people having the same thought at the same time to get something like the "liberal white supremacist" meme out so quickly.

I think it's safe to pin this one on Team Hillary.

last1standing

(11,709 posts)
42. We'll see, but I'm not bothered either way.
Mon Aug 17, 2015, 10:17 PM
Aug 2015

I don't have much respect for anyone who defends exploiting racial tensions for personal gain, whether they're Democrat or republican, Team Hillary or Team Bernie.

I'll be the first to admit, there are problem supporters in both camps, but I have little doubt Bernie would be disgusted with what a few of his supporters have posted, while I have even less doubt that Hillary's campaign staff is behind the attempt to drive this racial wedge. She did it in 2008, why should we believe her team isn't doing it now?

Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»2016 Postmortem»2008 vs. 2016 The More Th...