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Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 05:24 AM Aug 2015

Hillary's failing with BLM was her lack of personal reflection, not the "white people" phrase

It was Hillary's lack of reflection on how much her own efforts on "getting tough on crime", done mostly for political gain, I suspect, have been responsible for a worsening, not an improvement, in the lives of black and brown people in America.

This lack of reflection is not unique for her. It is something we have come to expect from her considering her only official comment on the IWR vote that helped to take the lives of hundreds of thousands of innocents was basically "I made the wrong call." --rather short of the apology most of us Democratic voters would like to see.

The legacy of the crimes bill that she actively helped to push and lobby for when she was First Lady has been the growth of incarceration, growth of private prisons and the dissolution of black and brown families in unprecedented numbers -so much that the number of black men in prison today now exceeds that of the number of slaves in the 1850's.

THAT is what she needed to reflect on, instead of lecturing about what BLM needs to do and how they need to do it.

"Obviously, I know more about the Civil Rights Movement in the old days, because I had a lot of involvement in working with people. So they had a plan—this piece of legislation, this court case we’re going to make, et cetera, et cetera. Same with the gay rights movement."

No, Hillary, I think BLM knows exactly how they want to protest and your job is not to tell them how to do that. The job you are trying to get elected for is to make policy. But if you want to earn votes, you're going to have to show some introspection and reflection. For the lives of people of color both in the US and in the countries you have encouraged the US to make war upon.

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Hillary's failing with BLM was her lack of personal reflection, not the "white people" phrase (Original Post) Bonobo Aug 2015 OP
I agree with you, Hillary's true lack of hubris daybranch Aug 2015 #1
Oh she has hubris. What she lacks is humility. nt Bonobo Aug 2015 #2
Bernie voted for that 1994 crime bill. Where's his reflection? SonderWoman Aug 2015 #3
but but but... Hillary is teh evil /sarcasm uponit7771 Aug 2015 #4
Yeah, it's absurd. SonderWoman Aug 2015 #5
He reflected on it at the time and made this speech protesting the expansion of the prison-state Luminous Animal Aug 2015 #7
If a Clinton complainer would come forward to give us an idea oasis Aug 2015 #13
IMO, what analysis of her response reveals about her is richer than that. HereSince1628 Aug 2015 #6
Leo Strauss' Philosophy of Deception Zorra Aug 2015 #8
White guy's opinion. Bobbie Jo Aug 2015 #9
What? I thought BLM were Hillary's puppets? lunamagica Aug 2015 #10
It died next to the "Hillary controls the DNC" meme ... JoePhilly Aug 2015 #11
You have it backwards AgingAmerican Aug 2015 #15
Then why are they trying to get Biden JoePhilly Aug 2015 #20
You have it backwards AgingAmerican Aug 2015 #16
does that make you a sanders shill? seabeyond Aug 2015 #17
African Americans examine Butter Hillary sculpture at Iowa State Fair HFRN Aug 2015 #12
2-5 again. Agschmid Aug 2015 #18
all you're doing, is building up stats, as a false alerter HFRN Aug 2015 #22
It's not a false alert, we have community standards. Agschmid Aug 2015 #23
ok, 'failed alert', then, if that distinction without a difference makes you feel better HFRN Aug 2015 #24
Watching the video, I'd say everything about it was a fail n/t whatchamacallit Aug 2015 #14
I liked the Nightly Show's take on it: beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #19
Yawn ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #21

daybranch

(1,309 posts)
1. I agree with you, Hillary's true lack of hubris
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 07:30 AM
Aug 2015

turns voters off. Her whole persona is Bill said I was smarter than him and therefore I deserve being President more than he did and since I am smarter than him or you I will just tell you what to do.
Like I will tell you how I will vote when you elect me President.
I will say however than the policy ideas I have heard and read in the news, seem small in terms of what is needed to stamp out police beliefs in their right to shoot people who do not submit to their jackboot actions.
The fire racial hatred has been tindered since the civil war as a mechanism to keep working people white, black, brown from joining together to throw out the rich master billionaires who control our government and allow these greedy bastards to rob us all.
Body cameras may be a very good idea but what are you going to do to keep them from being turned off etc. If Black Lives are to really matter, a political force must be exerted that threatens and removes the billionaires which consistently profit from the poverty, racism, and police brutality.
I hope there is a lot more we do to ensure economic and racial equality and dignity in our society. Only by doing this can we assure people of color and the poor and politically powerless are from police brutality.

 

SonderWoman

(1,169 posts)
3. Bernie voted for that 1994 crime bill. Where's his reflection?
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 08:15 AM
Aug 2015

I also think you're forgetting how high the crime rate was in the 90s. And the fact that black urban mayors and the entire congressional black caucus was overwhelmingly in support of tough on crime policies. Minority communities were screaming for tougher policing on crime and drugs.

 

SonderWoman

(1,169 posts)
5. Yeah, it's absurd.
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 09:26 AM
Aug 2015

Even today, I go to community meetings and people want more policing and tough on crime policing. White people here acting like us minorities want to live in crime and drug ridden neighborhoods.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
7. He reflected on it at the time and made this speech protesting the expansion of the prison-state
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:37 AM
Aug 2015

while Hillary actively lobbied for it.



Mr. Speaker, let me begin with a profound remark: Two plus two equals four.

In other words, there is a logical and rational process called cause and effect. In terms of Newtonian physics, that means that every action causes an equal and opposite reaction. In other words, Mr. Speaker, there are reasons why things happen, as controversial as that statement may be.

A farmer neglects to tend and care for his fields—it is likely that the crop will fail.

A company neglects to invest in research and development—it is likely that the company will not be profitable.

In a similar way, Mr. Speaker, a society which neglects, which oppresses and which disdains a very significant part of its population—which leaves them hungry, impoverished, unemployed, uneducated, and utterly without hope, will, through cause and effect, create a population which is bitter, which is angry, which is violent, and a society which is crime-ridden. This is the case in America, and it is the case in countries throughout the world.

Mr. Speaker, how do we talk about the very serious crime problem in America without mentioning that we have the highest rate of childhood poverty in the industrialized world, by far, with 22 percent of our children in poverty and 5 million who are hungry today? Do the Members think maybe that might have some relationship to crime? How do we talk about crime when this Congress is prepared, this year, to spend 11 times more for the military than for education; when 21 percent of our kids drop out of high school; when a recent study told us that twice as many young workers now earn poverty wages as 10 years ago; when the gap between the rich and the poor is wider, and when the rate of poverty continues to grow? Do the members think that might have some relationship to crime?

Mr. Speaker, it is my firm belief that clearly, there are some people in our society who are horribly violent, who are deeply sick and sociopathic, and clearly these people must be put behind bars in order to protect society from them. But it is also my view that through the neglect of our Government and through a grossly irrational set of priorities, we are dooming tens of millions of young people to a future of bitterness, misery, hopelessness, drugs, crime, and violence. And Mr. Speaker, all the jails in the world, and we already imprison more people per capita than any other country, and all of the executions in the world, will not make that situation right. We can either educate or electrocute. We can create meaningful jobs, rebuilding our society, or we can build more jails. Mr. Speaker, let us create a society of hope and compassion, not one of hate and vengeance.

oasis

(49,426 posts)
13. If a Clinton complainer would come forward to give us an idea
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 03:38 PM
Aug 2015

of what a crime bill for the 90's should look like, I'd be greatly in their debt.

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
6. IMO, what analysis of her response reveals about her is richer than that.
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 10:54 AM
Aug 2015

But recognition of that depends upon varying points-of-view. And during the primary campaign season, only some of those points-of-view are available to anyone.

BLM is going to make for a some really interesting books and dissertations...that won't influence this election or be of interest to most people when they are completed.



Zorra

(27,670 posts)
8. Leo Strauss' Philosophy of Deception
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:57 AM
Aug 2015
Many neoconservatives like Paul Wolfowitz are disciples of a philosopher who believed that the elite should use deception, religious fervor and perpetual war to control the ignorant masses.

Rule One: Deception

It's hardly surprising then why Strauss is so popular in an administration obsessed with secrecy, especially when it comes to matters of foreign policy. Not only did Strauss have few qualms about using deception in politics, he saw it as a necessity. While professing deep respect for American democracy, Strauss believed that societies should be hierarchical – divided between an elite who should lead, and the masses who should follow. But unlike fellow elitists like Plato, he was less concerned with the moral character of these leaders. According to Shadia Drury, who teaches politics at the University of Calgary, Strauss believed that "those who are fit to rule are those who realize there is no morality and that there is only one natural right – the right of the superior to rule over the inferior."

This dichotomy requires "perpetual deception" between the rulers and the ruled, according to Drury. Robert Locke, another Strauss analyst says,"The people are told what they need to know and no more." While the elite few are capable of absorbing the absence of any moral truth, Strauss thought, the masses could not cope. If exposed to the absence of absolute truth, they would quickly fall into nihilism or anarchy, according to Drury, author of 'Leo Strauss and the American Right' (St. Martin's 1999).
snip---
The image encapsulates the neoconservative vision of the United States' relationship with the rest of the world – as well as the relationship between their relationship as a ruling elite with the masses. "They really have no use for liberalism and democracy, but they're conquering the world in the name of liberalism and democracy," Drury says.

http://www.alternet.org/story/15935/leo_strauss'_philosophy_of_deception


From the Council on Foreign Relations' publication.

America’s Pacific Century
The future of politics will be decided in Asia, not Afghanistan or Iraq, and the United States will be right at the center of the action
BY HILLARY CLINTON | NOVEMBER 2011

As the war in Iraq winds down and America begins to withdraw its forces from Afghanistan, the United States stands at a pivot point. Over the last 10 years, we have allocated immense resources to those two theaters. In the next 10 years, we need to be smart and systematic about where we invest time and energy, so that we put ourselves in the best position to sustain our leadership, secure our interests, and advance our values. One of the most important tasks of American statecraft over the next decade will therefore be to lock in a substantially increased investment -- diplomatic, economic, strategic, and otherwise -- in the Asia-Pacific region.
snip---
At a time when the region is building a more mature security and economic architecture to promote stability and prosperity, U.S. commitment there is essential. It will help build that architecture and pay dividends for continued American leadership well into this century, just as our post-World War II commitment to building a comprehensive and lasting transatlantic network of institutions and relationships has paid off many times over -- and continues to do so. The time has come for the United States to make similar investments as a Pacific power, a strategic course set by President Barack Obama from the outset of his administration and one that is already yielding benefits.

With Iraq and Afghanistan still in transition and serious economic challenges in our own country, there are those on the American political scene who are calling for us not to reposition, but to come home. They seek a downsizing of our foreign engagement in favor of our pressing domestic priorities. These impulses are understandable, but they are misguided. Those who say that we can no longer afford to engage with the world have it exactly backward -- we cannot afford not to. From opening new markets for American businesses to curbing nuclear proliferation to keeping the sea lanes free for commerce and navigation, our work abroad holds the key to our prosperity and security at home. For more than six decades, the United States has resisted the gravitational pull of these "come home" debates and the implicit zero-sum logic of these arguments. We must do so again.
snip---
How we translate the growing connection between the Indian and Pacific oceans into an operational concept is a question that we need to answer if we are to adapt to new challenges in the region. Against this backdrop, a more broadly distributed military presence across the region will provide vital advantages. The United States will be better positioned to support humanitarian missions; equally important, working with more allies and partners will provide a more robust bulwark against threats or efforts to undermine regional peace and stability.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2011/10/11/americas-pacific-century/

If the article at the link above gets scrubbed, a copy of the entire essay can be found at the link below.

http://www.thomhartmann.com/forum/2012/09/dlcs-pnac-document-hillary-clinton-americas-strategy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251495072

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
11. It died next to the "Hillary controls the DNC" meme ...
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 01:37 PM
Aug 2015

... the second it was rumored that Biden might run.

 

HFRN

(1,469 posts)
12. African Americans examine Butter Hillary sculpture at Iowa State Fair
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 02:53 PM
Aug 2015


'It was very lifelike, it was almost as though she was there, talking down to us'

Agschmid

(28,749 posts)
18. 2-5 again.
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 04:41 PM
Aug 2015

Maybe at some point you'll stop posting this rediculous meme.

It's over the top and dismissive of the important issues that actually matter.

 

HFRN

(1,469 posts)
22. all you're doing, is building up stats, as a false alerter
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 06:28 PM
Aug 2015

if by chance they keep stats on that

(and it's not a meme, it's a joke, that nobody would actually take seriously)

Agschmid

(28,749 posts)
23. It's not a false alert, we have community standards.
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 06:55 PM
Aug 2015

It would be nice if we stick to them occasionally.

 

HFRN

(1,469 posts)
24. ok, 'failed alert', then, if that distinction without a difference makes you feel better
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 07:00 PM
Aug 2015

and you're right - we do have community standards

and you aren't meeting them with your alerts

(and just curious, but why do you clutter up your posts with stuff at the bottom - you say you're tired of my picture - ever occur to you some might be tired of yours? that have been repeated far more times?)

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