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Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
Thu Aug 27, 2015, 06:06 AM Aug 2015

Bernie's Fiery Feet Part 2!!

So, in my last thread that got prematurely spotted, I said I was saying that we should hold Bernie's feet to the fire and DEMAND the following:

A ban on the sale of assault weapons

Limits to firearm magazine capacities

Mandatory background checks for online and gun-show purchases

Prohibitions on cross-state conceal-carry

Enforcement of trigger lock laws

Bans on underage firearm possession

72-hour background checks

Increases on minimum prison sentences for crimes involving firearms



Well, the good news is that already supports ALL of those positions. In other words, any votes in opposition to those principals are due to reasons having to do with the details of the bills but NOT out of opposition to the above. Can Hillary say that she supports all of them as well? Let's assume the answer is yes -- is there anything that she has not yet supported? Anything extra she supports?

I'd love to hear the answers, but mostly what I want to do is dispel the mistaken perception that Bernie is not already in support of gun control. He is. Look at the list again. He is.

Yes, I expect to hear Brady Bill, Brady Bill. But In fact, he voted for a version of the Brady bill that contained background checks. When asked, he stated that his objection was that he believed that handgun waiting periods, which were included in the final version of the Brady bill, are best left to the states. This was the reason the NRA backed his election in 1990, over a Republican, who had then recently changed his mind to support such waiting periods.(*)

* http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anhvinh-doanvo/lets-talk-about-bernie-sa_b_8023768.html

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Bernie's Fiery Feet Part 2!! (Original Post) Bonobo Aug 2015 OP
Like I said in the other thread, handgun registration and licensing should be added. DanTex Aug 2015 #1
K&R! Katashi_itto Aug 2015 #2
There are a few areas where I wish all the candidates (including Bernie) need to be stronger: Sancho Aug 2015 #3

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
1. Like I said in the other thread, handgun registration and licensing should be added.
Thu Aug 27, 2015, 06:19 AM
Aug 2015

But Hillary doesn't support that either to my knowledge. Still, she is better on gun control than Bernie. Bernie's most disappointing gun control votes were against the Brady Bill and in favor of partial gun industry immunity, and Hillary was on the opposite side of both.

I also think Hillary is more likely to make gun control a priority, but realistically I don't think much is happening with guns in the next few years regardless of who is president. The best we can probably hope for is better enforcement.

You're right though, Bernie does support basic gun control measures, the most important being universal background checks. More generally, Bernie and Hillary are on the same side most of the time on a wide number of issues. There are a few things like Glass Steagall or gun industry immunity where they differ, but the fact of the matter is that both have very good policy platforms, and as far as things that are likely to get through congress, there really isn't too much difference.

How about this. Instead of bashing either candidate over the small subset of things where they differ, how about we celebrate the huge majority of things where they agree.

Sancho

(9,070 posts)
3. There are a few areas where I wish all the candidates (including Bernie) need to be stronger:
Thu Aug 27, 2015, 07:31 AM
Aug 2015

First, there should not be "regional" ways to avoid gun control. If guns can be purchased and transported, then obviously there is no control to set up pipelines from "hunting states" to "urban crime" states.

Second, universal background checks for ALL sales and uses: no exceptions for collectors, private sales, gun club rentals, or inheritance. If you have a gun in hand, you should have been checked.

Third, there is no transportation of guns except with secured (trigger locks, locked cases, etc.) to hunting or shooting locations. No wandering around with guns in your pocket, on your hip, in your car, or in your bra.

Fourth, mandatory training and certification courses for all gun use and possession.

Fifth, mandatory insurance for gun use and possession. This is NOT just to pay off victims. It's because insurance companies would keep statistics that predict gun violence plus they would likely demand gun security (safes, etc.) in order to get the policy. They would not give you a policy if you have a diagnosed, dangerous teenager in the home. You get the idea.

Personally, I think every possession should be by license only, so I'll add my plan at the bottom of this post. There really is NOT a 2nd amendment problem (read "The Second Amendment: A Biography" by Waldman) if people politically want laws to change. Of course, every time I post this I get arguments, so I defer the the legal scholar who wrote the book.

People Control, Not Gun Control

This is my generic response to gun threads where people are shot and killed by the dumb or criminal possession of guns. For the record, I grew up in the South and on military bases. I was taught about firearms as a child, and I grew up hunting, was a member of the NRA, and I still own guns. In the 70’s, I dropped out of the NRA because they become more radical and less interested in safety and training. Some personal experiences where people I know were involved in shootings caused me to realize that anyone could obtain and posses a gun no matter how illogical it was for them to have a gun. Also, easy access to more powerful guns, guns in the hands of children, and guns that weren’t secured are out of control in our society. As such, here’s what I now think ought to be the requirements to possess a gun. I’m not debating the legal language, I just think it’s the reasonable way to stop the shootings. Notice, none of this restricts the type of guns sold. This is aimed at the people who shoot others, because it’s clear that they should never have had a gun.

1.) Anyone in possession of a gun (whether they own it or not) should have a regularly renewed license. If you want to call it a permit, certificate, or something else that's fine.
2.) To get a license, you should have a background check, and be examined by a professional for emotional and mental stability appropriate for gun possession. It might be appropriate to require that examination to be accompanied by references from family, friends, employers, etc. This check is not to subject you to a mental health diagnosis, just check on your superficial and apparent gun-worthyness.
3.) To get the license, you should be required to take a safety course and pass a test appropriate to the type of gun you want to use.
4.) To get a license, you should be over 21. Under 21, you could only use a gun under direct supervision of a licensed person and after obtaining a learner’s license. Your license might be restricted if you have children or criminals or other unsafe people living in your home. (If you want to argue 18 or 25 or some other age, fine. 21 makes sense to me.)
5.) If you possess a gun, you would have to carry a liability insurance policy specifically for gun ownership - and likely you would have to provide proof of appropriate storage, security, and whatever statistical reasons that emerge that would drive the costs and ability to get insurance.
6.) You could not purchase a gun or ammunition without a license, and purchases would have a waiting period.
7.) If you possess a gun without a license, you go to jail, the gun is impounded, and a judge will have to let you go (just like a DUI).
8.) No one should carry an unsecured gun (except in a locked case, unloaded) when outside of home. Guns should be secure when transporting to a shooting event without demonstrating a special need. Their license should indicate training and special carry circumstances beyond recreational shooting (security guard, etc.). If you are carrying your gun while under the influence of drugs or alcohol, you lose your gun and license.
9.) If you buy, sell, give away, or inherit a gun, your license information should be recorded.
10.) If you accidentally discharge your gun, commit a crime, get referred by a mental health professional, are served a restraining order, etc., you should lose your license and guns until reinstated by a serious relicensing process.

Most of you know that a license is no big deal. Besides a driver’s license you need a license to fish, operate a boat, or many other activities. I realize these differ by state, but that is not a reason to let anyone without a bit of sense pack a semiautomatic weapon in public, on the roads, and in schools. I think we need to make it much harder for some people to have guns.

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