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JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 01:16 PM Aug 2015

Why Bernie? Why now?

This is an exchange of views, posts numbers 245 and 246, and I think that, although my response is long, some might want to read this because it goes to the core of an issue that may be dividing our Democratic Party.

Another DUer wrote (link to thread at the bottom of this post)

This is lot of trumped up propaganda when the reality is that

he was unelectable because of his fringe politics. That's the reality of it. He never bothered to run for national office because he obviously understood that he was out of the mainstream. Thanks to fighters like the Clinton's and Obama, many of the impediments to his appeal have been broken down for him and he is now able to take advantage of his fringe status. It's really nothing more. If he was so great, he would have run for office in his 40;s but he knew he was not viable.

He's an opportunist, and he has hid out in Vermont but now that he sees an opening, he's going for it. That's fine. That's what primaries are for. But he did not break down any barriers on his own. He is the beneficiary of the efforts of others before him who bore the brunt of intrusive questioning and lack of privacy to endure a national campaign. Now that there's an opening, he's slipping in. Let's not coddle him now, though. He can fight for his spot like everyone else has had to.

*****

I answered:

He quietly stood for what was right for all these years while others stole the spotlight
and spoke half-truths.

Now, he is speaking out. The American people are listening. And what they are hearing is what they feel in their hearts.

History is a story unfolding as we breathe and move. Bernie's time in history is meeting ours.

I can understand the envy of those you describe in your post. People who did not have the courage to tell the truth twenty years ago, who could not then and do not now stand up against all the lies the right wing has persuaded Americans to believe are feeling unappreciated, confused and disappointed. Maybe even bitter.

They missed their moment. They could have told the truth back then. They could have questioned those who were selling the Iraq War before it happened. They could have stood against Wall Street greed and trade that was swallowing American's jobs. They could have funded education and audited the Fed and the military budget.

If they were just preparing a way and sacrificing their integrity to tell their half-truths, to skirt the issues, to sign bills like the repeal of Glass-Steagall, the "reform" of welfare, the sentencing acts, the facilitation of the privatization of prisons, the sale of war materials to local police forces, the War in Iraq, NAFTA, free trade with China, the NSA's invasion of our privacy and on and on, then they made huge mistakes.

What they were preparing was the way for Citizens United, for students saddled with the heavy burden of debt at the time that they should be able to start families, buy homes and furnish households, of banks that cheat and steal and pay the penalties with other people's money, of outsourced and exported jobs, of our markets inundated with cheap goods made by near slave labor while our children cannot find work . . . . I could go on. Detail after detail. Mistake after mistake. And all because of the corruption of campaign financing and the revolving door between government and wealthy corporations.

Lie after lie. Misleading promise after misleading promise. And now those who told the lies and made the misleading promises want us to think that they did it all in order to prepare the way foe someone who was intentionally and coyly hiding himself in Vermont.

That doggie won't bark. It's such an obvious fantasy, so clearly made up after the fact that no one is going to believe it.

Bernie has been in Congress since 1992. He voted his conscience over and over and again and again even when it was unpopular to do so. He was quietly and repeatedly re-elected by the people who know him and knew him the best -- the people of Vermont. He was not in the national headlines because the media and the top dogs in the Democratic Party ignored him.

Their mistake, not his.

Bernie's time has come. Whether he wins or not -- and judging from the enthusiasm of the crowds he draws and the determination of the volunteers he attracts, I think there is as good a chance that he will as there is that anyone else will, he is lifting the veils from a lot of eyes. He is putting the lies where they belong -- in the trash can of history.

Bernie speaks of a political revolution.

When we look at revolutions of the past, and the violent ones are the best known but the non-violent ones are more numerous, the conditions that forced the change we call revolutions existed well before the first tremors of that change were noticed or measured.

In my view, social change, economic change, the spread of new ideas. not crazy people or leaders, bring on the kind of abrupt change we call revolution.

A new invention -- electricity, the cannon, the iron horse, the airplane, television for example -- so changes society that political change must follow.

Computers, the internet, the automation of the workplace, all of that massive change that has occurred in the past 30 years links us, weaves us together in ways that we never thought possible. They have changed the social reality in which we live. And Bernie's ideas respond to and fit with this new reality.

Individuals, leaders, revolutionaries we call them, are credited with spawning the drastic changes that they come to represent. But really that is just the way that we, as we usually do, spin myths around the changes in our lives in in the lives of our ancestors. It is easier to for that part of us that is primitive and ill informed to credit bears or eagles with miraculous powers than to analyze and figure out nature and science.

The internet has changed everything. We can find out opinions, facts, learn history, study science. It's all accessible to us now. We just have to ask a question and we get a variety of answers to choose from. That changed reality calls for a changed social organization and a changed politics. And here is Bernie who represents the very democratic change that works in this new reality.

I don't think that voters will accept the usual excuses that the apologists for the corporate bosses give once Bernie has had his say. The bosses don't know as much more about the world than we can find out as they used to. We are headed toward more democracy, not less.

Today, a Jeb Bush cannot say that he will take care of women when we can press a few buttons on our computers and study his history, the ideas he sponsored, the budgets he signed, the vetoes he cast. Politicians cannot hide their pasts from us any more.

It's Bernie's time.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=post&forum=1251&pid=558746
Replies #345 and 346

44 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Why Bernie? Why now? (Original Post) JDPriestly Aug 2015 OP
Thoughtful and well reasoned post. Thank you. peacebird Aug 2015 #1
Thank you. JDPriestly Aug 2015 #4
Thank you for making this an OP. LWolf Aug 2015 #2
Thank you. Great post. Heartfelt. JDPriestly Aug 2015 #3
Change is sometimes painful...THIS. nt LWolf Aug 2015 #10
THIS Armstead Aug 2015 #9
K&R&bookmark JEB Aug 2015 #5
This message was self-deleted by its author R B Garr Aug 2015 #6
I understand that you see Bernie's popularity as unfair. JDPriestly Aug 2015 #7
wrong again. You just wanted to isolate my post because you weren't getting R B Garr Aug 2015 #39
huh? artislife Aug 2015 #8
Some of the comments about Bernie here are positively unhinged. beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #29
This is the most bizarre reasoning I've seen for a long time Armstead Aug 2015 #11
"Sorry, but he reminds me of a booty call type guy. " Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #12
New Coke or Classic Coke? Armstead Aug 2015 #13
I was thinking more like Alka Selzer Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #15
"illegitimate son"??? Seriously??? Live and Learn Aug 2015 #16
Someone I love very dearly was born to his mother when she was not married. JDPriestly Aug 2015 #21
No, you've struck ignore. Your post makes no sense. nt Zorra Aug 2015 #17
Oh hell, I was going to say something similar zeemike Aug 2015 #20
Nothing wrong with copying in my view. JDPriestly Aug 2015 #22
What does this "personality critique" have to do with anything? mhatrw Aug 2015 #24
Great post! JDPriestly Aug 2015 #30
Hey, I'm an illegitimate child! AND I like Bernie! StandingInLeftField Aug 2015 #27
Great response to a ridiculous post. TY nt Live and Learn Aug 2015 #14
it's more than just distracting us or seizing the terms of debate: they want to keep discussion MisterP Aug 2015 #18
Berine because... RealistComments Aug 2015 #19
Thank you. JDPriestly Aug 2015 #23
You are very welcome... RealistComments Aug 2015 #35
Here is your thread in the BS group warning others about effective Clinton posters, R B Garr Aug 2015 #25
"not one of the great issues facing our society" mhatrw Aug 2015 #26
Sorry. I don't spam the boards, and I have no personal beef with you. JDPriestly Aug 2015 #31
Ya get the idea they're running out of ideas.... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2015 #28
Sanders has always fought to blaze his own path Babel_17 Aug 2015 #32
Thanks. Great post. JDPriestly Aug 2015 #33
Thank you. BillyLeB Aug 2015 #34
Great post, thanks JDPriestly. Scuba Aug 2015 #36
OUTSTANDING come back ! beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #37
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Aug 2015 #38
Good post, JD! I've waited these many years for a 'true' populist candidate for president and Bernie dmosh42 Aug 2015 #40
In the meta-sense, I think it is because this is something that needed to happen. hifiguy Aug 2015 #41
I agree. He did not live his life or even the past 20 years in contemplation of the day that JDPriestly Aug 2015 #43
Bernie assumed a burden, much like RFK did. hifiguy Aug 2015 #44
HUGE K & R !!! - THANK YOU !!! WillyT Aug 2015 #42

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
2. Thank you for making this an OP.
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 01:47 PM
Aug 2015

Your response is thoughtful, accurate, and powerful.

I think you nailed something important about the envy. You are responding to statements about the Clintons and Obama, but I think that envy extends to many of their supporters, as well.

Not all, of course. But many. That's why, in my view, there are so many "sour grapes" posts that don't do anything to rebut Sanders on anything, and why so many repeated attempts to mislead, to make something out of nothing, or a mountain range out of a hummock, appear here daily. They're bitter before a primary vote has been cast.

It's not too late. They haven't missed their moment, if they can let go of their own pre-conceived perceptions and conventional "wisdom" about the coming primaries and GE. They can join the revolution, and I think some will. The stronger Bernie gets, the harder it will be to resist.

I've been reading about the changes that Democrats want for 13 years now on DU, and about how they can't ever be achieved because we can't elect those who are best on issues, or because we can't effect change without more Dems in Congress, or...there are always excuses.

This time, there aren't any. The opportunity is before us. We can take it, or reject it, but those who reject it ought not to complain when the nation continues it's staggering journey into fascism.

With the enthusiasm that Sanders is generating, if we get him nominated, I think he'll have some really long coattails in the GE. That's what I'd like people to understand. As he says, it's not about him. It's also not just about the presidency. The political revolution needs to occur, and will occur, at all levels. His leadership is generating the energy and enthusiasm to make that happen, and all of us who want to change the nation's direction need to be on board and busy, taking advantage of this opportunity.



JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
3. Thank you. Great post. Heartfelt.
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 01:56 PM
Aug 2015

Bernie is a positive force. But he is working against a lot of negativity.any

I don't view the people who support other candidates as bad or anything.

I just recognize that change is sometimes very painful, and people express that pain on DU.

But we cannot stay mired in the past.

The economics of the 19th century may work for a few very rich people, but they are not working for our society. Nature and our environment are telling us that.

One of the areas in which we need a much more cooperative, pooled effort is changing to renewable energy. The forces that want to hold us back have a lot of money and a lot of power, and I am not going to name names because many, many people and corporations would just as soon have a world in which coal, gas and oil dominate our energy market.

Hey! Even those who work in coal in the Appalachians, ordinary people who depend on mining for their livelihoods cannot imagine a society in which they and their children will have opportunities other than the opportunities of the past down in those mines.

So we have a lot of very positive work to do.

Feel the Bern.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
9. THIS
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 02:35 PM
Aug 2015

"I've been reading about the changes that Democrats want for 13 years now on DU, and about how they can't ever be achieved because we can't elect those who are best on issues, or because we can't effect change without more Dems in Congress, or...there are always excuses. This time, there aren't any. The opportunity is before us. We can take it, or reject it, but those who reject it ought not to complain when the nation continues it's staggering journey into fascism. "

Exactly....or to pull out a variation on an old meme -- "We've kept our powder dry for so long it's going to turn into dust if we don;t use it soon."

or something like that

Response to JDPriestly (Original post)

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
7. I understand that you see Bernie's popularity as unfair.
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 02:29 PM
Aug 2015

I think his popularity is a step in the right direction.

We as a country have to move forward, as Obama said.

One of the subtexts of my post is that history is not really about the individuals, the mythological figures that we credit with guiding it.

Napoleon was maybe as close to a super-hero as historical figures come. George Washington maybe.

But they weren't really so super. They swam on the tides that took them to their historical shores.

Marie Antoinette is viewed as a spoiled young woman. She was beheaded by an outraged bunch of French revolutionaries.

In fact, her mother, Maria Theresa, was viewed as a benevolent empress in Austria who advocated for and instituted public education for nearly every, if not every child in Austria.

This is Bernie's time. I'm sorry if that hurts the feelings of people who believe that they made the sacrifices that prepared the way.

I'm very sorry, but history works this way.

I campaigned very hard for both Bill Clinton and Obama (Kerry too), but their times in the history of our presidential elections have passed. That is the way it rolls.

Bernie is rising. He was not hiding away in Vermont. He was serving in Congress, giving lots of speeches on lots of topics. And his speeches were way ahead of the time.

Sorry, but we can all look up on the internet and see a picture of Bill Clinton signing the repeal of Glass Steagall. What do I see? The greedy faces of a gaggle of men who knew very well that they were getting rid of what they viewed as the wicked witch, the law that prohibited them from gambling with federally insured funds, buying risky derivatives with them.

We all have paid for the repeal of Glass Steagall. That is just a fact.

We all pay for the growth of the prison-industrial system. Another hard fact.

We also are paying, and our children are paying even more and indenturing themselves for the combination of costly post-secondary education and trade agreements, the first -- the education -- leaving our children with expensive loans to repay if they want to qualify for decent-paying jobs, and the second -- the trade agreements -- insuring that the jobs that are available for our indebted children will not be as well paid as they used to be and that our children will have difficulty repaying their loans, or even be unable to repay their loans.

Bernie speaks to these injustices among others.

And some of these injustices are due to the decisions made by some of the

If you think that my facts are wrong, please let me know.

I do not want your post removed. I will not alert on it, and I ask others to let it be.

You are speaking from your heart, and that is what DU is about.

I do not take posts on DU as personal insults. You are entitled to express your opinion

Thanks for your reply.

R B Garr

(16,973 posts)
39. wrong again. You just wanted to isolate my post because you weren't getting
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 09:17 AM
Aug 2015

traction and exposure in other thread and now you can have your own thread to spam and misrepresent as per your stated goals with Hillary supporters in your thread from BS group I linked below.

You didn't need to call me out and copy my post to make your points here, and you know people can't respond without possibly getting posts hidden which you even point out in your BS group thread.. You even warn Bernie supporters about tactical posting strategies so they don't get posts hidden, so you obviously have a strategy. I'm just pointing this out for others to see how they might be manipulated. Note that the responses in this thread are basically personal attacks...quite predictably.





beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
29. Some of the comments about Bernie here are positively unhinged.
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 05:26 PM
Aug 2015


You'd think he took someone's blankie away.

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
12. "Sorry, but he reminds me of a booty call type guy. "
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 02:47 PM
Aug 2015

You just gotta let that sit there awhile. Sort of like a carbonated drink, it will percolate up after awhile.

Live and Learn

(12,769 posts)
16. "illegitimate son"??? Seriously???
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 03:00 PM
Aug 2015

That is a terrible thing to say and does not belong on a progressive site. Nobody is illegitimate.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
21. Someone I love very dearly was born to his mother when she was not married.
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 04:10 PM
Aug 2015

Every child who is loved is legitimate.

The concept is anathema to me. I really love children and babies and especially love my own.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
20. Oh hell, I was going to say something similar
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 04:00 PM
Aug 2015

It always pays to read through the thread so that you don't look like you are copying.

mhatrw

(10,786 posts)
24. What does this "personality critique" have to do with anything?
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 04:50 PM
Aug 2015

So Bernie did not run for national office until the time was right for him to do so. So what?

All those "trailblazers" you lionize led the USA directly into corpocracy. What did Obama or Clinton do in 16 years to mitigate wealth disparity or promote campaign reform? What policies did they ever successfully champion that threatened our corporate overloads?

Clinton and Obama both governed slightly to the right of Nixon. What trails did they blaze to pave the way for Sanders? Sanders' popularity stems from people agreeing that enough is enough. His current popularity is reaction against where the national leaders who came before him, regardless of political party, have taken our country. Sanders is not riding on anybody's coattails. His popularity is almost solely based on his giving a voice to informed people who are fed up with our co-opted political establishment. And that is the only way he "owes" his rise to national prominence to the very people who helped get us into this mess.

27. Hey, I'm an illegitimate child! AND I like Bernie!
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 05:14 PM
Aug 2015

Illegitimate Children of the World, UNITE (for Bernie, that is... )

MisterP

(23,730 posts)
18. it's more than just distracting us or seizing the terms of debate: they want to keep discussion
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 03:38 PM
Aug 2015

nice and fact-free, a tussle between naked assertions in a Hermetically-sealed bubble, where "Sanders is an opportunist everyone's going too easy on" is a fitting defense of a candidate everyone knows is an opportunist who's had every advantage handed over to her

IOW they want to "mirror," like all those lists of "maker and taker states" that have the real numbers flipped, so that it looks like the real list is just another example of empty rhetoric rather than numbers straight from the Fed

what's important is to figure out what the rhetoric's in response to: at the latest DNC stock meeting DWS said they'll keep a debate schedule they wrote when no real challenger was planned, and that there's nothing us swine can do about it; a few months ago suddenly "Sanders has a race problem"

 

RealistComments

(20 posts)
19. Berine because...
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 03:50 PM
Aug 2015

the alternatives are not as appealing to those who care about issues such as income inequality. It is a documented fact that the Clintons have earned $140 million over the last 7 years from corporations. It takes an incredible suspension of disbelief to think that Hillary would address the income inequality issue in any meaningful way.

R B Garr

(16,973 posts)
25. Here is your thread in the BS group warning others about effective Clinton posters,
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 04:52 PM
Aug 2015

and, NO, that is absolutely not me that you are talking about in that particular thread, but here is what your call-out of me in this thread is really about. . You are just trying to draw attention to my post so that you can call me out to silence me and spam the boards as you indicate you're going to do in your thread. You even put in that people are "envious" of Bernie so that will encourage people to disagree with you and you can cry ageism. I have to laugh at your pretending to be his eyes and ears for 40 years. But at least people can see what REALLY motivated you to call me out and try to silence me as has been done to others here. No wonder you people are making so many enemies.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/128041164

"There are a couple of Hillary "supporters" who have a nearly professional ability to trap people into losing focus from the pro-Bernie to the exchange of personal insults. One of them is very adept at avoiding the kinds of insults that are obviously personal and instead appearing to talk generally. A lot of Bernie supporters get caught in the trap. Watch out."

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
31. Sorry. I don't spam the boards, and I have no personal beef with you.
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 05:55 PM
Aug 2015

I have been on DU for a long time, have a large post count and don't post anywhere else.

Rest assured. I'm not trying to push you off DU, and I am not planning to spam you elsewhere.

This is a political debate, not a personal vendetta.

I am curious about you because I am on this board a lot and don't recall noticing your moniker.

I wouldn't know how to spam you elsewhere even if I tried.

I'm just a retired old lady and this is an impersonal political discussion.

Sorry if my post embarrassed you. I did not intend that, but . . . . . I didn't write your post.

What we post on the internet is there for all to see.

Nothing personal. I have no problem with you or any other Hillary supporter.

I'm not really fond of removing posts or DUers from the site unless they truly are professional troublemakers for one side or the other, Republicans or post personal insults.

This is a site for Democrats and political discussion among Democrats.

Different points of view, as I understand it, are welcome, and so are you as far as I am concerned.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
28. Ya get the idea they're running out of ideas....
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 05:21 PM
Aug 2015

Now Bernie is some weird stalker who waited for the right time to make his move?

Seriously?

Babel_17

(5,400 posts)
32. Sanders has always fought to blaze his own path
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 11:03 PM
Aug 2015

There was no older Senator guiding him, or any financial advisers steering him around Washington. There was no team of speech writers to compose his "filibuster". There have been no focus groups to formulate the amazing success of the Sanders campaign, and there are no sworn allies of him in the media to trumpet his progress.

Sanders hearkens back to all the bold progressives of American politics who cleared the path for our party to be able to claim to stand for the 99%. He's their representative in this fight today, and he doesn't owe the Washington establishment a thing for his campaign being in position to drive on to the win.

My 2 cents.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
37. OUTSTANDING come back !
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 07:06 AM
Aug 2015

It's about time someone met that meme head on!

They also claim that Bernie moved to Vermont because it's less diverse.

Thank you, JDPriestly.




dmosh42

(2,217 posts)
40. Good post, JD! I've waited these many years for a 'true' populist candidate for president and Bernie
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 10:23 AM
Aug 2015

has arrived! He's five months older than me and I can't think of an issue where I disagree with him. And he's keeping focused on his issues which the opponents hate to talk about. So he might be a huge surprise to the corporation ass-kissers who have run things since I can remember.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
41. In the meta-sense, I think it is because this is something that needed to happen.
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 12:30 PM
Aug 2015

I have doubts that Bernie would have run had Elizabeth Warren picked up the gauntlet but she did not, and I respect her reasons for not doing so. Someone had to do it, and with Warren out, I think Bernie decided that it may as well be him to lead the effort. That he is a person who has always said what he meant and meant what he said just redounds to his benefit.

He doesn't want to be POTUS for the sake of being POTUS, as so many do, to fill the last gap on a resume. He wants to make the country a batter place and get it working for everyone again. I cannot imagine that ten years ago, or even two, Bernie was lying awake at night and planning a run for the presidency. It's just a circumstance where he happened to be the person in the right place at the right time.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
43. I agree. He did not live his life or even the past 20 years in contemplation of the day that
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 02:21 PM
Aug 2015

he might run for president.

That's very refreshing. I love it.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
44. Bernie assumed a burden, much like RFK did.
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 02:28 PM
Aug 2015

Someone had to do it and no one else was willing to take it on. Nothing against Warren at all.

I honestly believe that devoting your life to becoming president is an absolute disqualifier for holding the office.

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