2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHoward Dean: The Case for Hillary Clinton
By Howard Dean September 1 at 11:00 AM
Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton remains the best hope for Americans who are counting on strong and experienced leadership to deal with the economic injustice, educational crises, and foreign instability, which have plagued our country in the early part of the 21st century.
Clintons three most compelling characteristics continue to be her vast experience in foreign and domestic policy; her tenacity and history of getting things done across the political aisle, particularly as a senator; and the ferocious enthusiasm of her followers, particularly among young women working for true political gender equity that is long overdue.
Clinton is not only the smartest and the toughest person in the race, she is also the person who has put forward specific policy proposals on issues ranging from profit sharing for workers, revitalizing rural America, criminal justice reform, universal automatic voter registration, to an economic plan that recognizes equal pay, paid family leave and childcare are essential to competitiveness and growth.
I want her sense of justice, and policy understanding in the Oval office when we face up to the fact that we have to forgive over half of our student debt, and fundamentally change educational opportunities for poor kids in America.
---- summary of the rest: She has courage, compassion, leadership... She has been subjected to more criticism and vitriol than any other candidate but there is no evidence of any wrongdoing. Dean says he trusts her to be tough in a tough world.
Rest at the link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2015/09/01/howard-dean-the-case-for-hillary-clinton/
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)William769
(55,147 posts)Put him with Hillary & some others that have come out for her and we'll have a "dream team".
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)LettuceSea
(337 posts)Fires me up, but my vote is safe.
IMO these articles are best when the surrogates highlight her strengths without making excuses, as whining and complaining about adversity aren't really considered attributes of strength. Dean does a good job here, for the most part.
BeyondGeography
(39,377 posts)You didn't need to throw that in to close the sale, Howard.
MattSh
(3,714 posts)never thought I'd hear something like that from Howard, but there it is...
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)eom
Laser102
(816 posts)Then again that's a good idea. He'd make them disappear.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)Godhumor
(6,437 posts)For supporting she who would not be named.
Kidding aside, great endorsement. Clinton has really racked up an amazing level of endorsements considering how early in the process this all is.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)Establishment dems like establishment candidates. I think there is a relationship here. The more a politician appears on beltway news the more likely they are to endorse an establishment candidate.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)HappyPlace
(568 posts)No, thank you.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)enacting bad policy just to prove that you can work with the other side is even worse.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)HappyPlace
(568 posts)Shit, Ike was more left than many of today's mainstream Democrats.
No sir, it ends now.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)We are lucky to have someone with so much passion for helping others.
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)What a great team!
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)Otherwise your post no sense
SonderWoman
(1,169 posts)antigop
(12,778 posts)http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/07/AR2007090702780.html
When Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton flew to New Delhi to meet with Indian business leaders in 2005, she offered a blunt assessment of the loss of American jobs across the Pacific. "There is no way to legislate against reality," she declared. "Outsourcing will continue. . . . We are not against all outsourcing; we are not in favor of putting up fences."
Howard, you really, really, don't get it, do you?
Howard, you really are removed from how most people live.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Hillary's trade policy would be disastrous for American working people. Just disastrous.
America cannot afford Hillary Clinton in the White House.
Response to OKNancy (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)BooScout
(10,406 posts)They're now Name Removed. Who was it? I hate it when I miss Trolls being zapped!
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)ya.... i hate missing 'em too
BooScout
(10,406 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)TBF
(32,083 posts)on this one. While Clinton is strong on civil rights and women's rights I don't see the commitment to fighting poverty here in the US. I do think she is extremely smart and would make an excellent supreme court justice.
sheshe2
(83,835 posts)Snotcicles
(9,089 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)lost a lot of respect for Dean when I learned that he endorsed Clinton long before anyone had even committed to running.
staggerleem
(469 posts)The early endorsement essentially kills any leverage you might have with ANY candidate. The one(s) you did not endorse now know where you stand, and can safely ignore you, and the one you DID endorse knows you're sewn up, and not worth any more effort.
And to think this comes from a guy from Bernie's home state. Makes one wonder, doesn't it?
pnwmom
(108,989 posts)Bernie and Martin should have been working on endorsements earlier.
frylock
(34,825 posts)pnwmom
(108,989 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)pnwmom
(108,989 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)staggerleem
(469 posts)modestybl
(458 posts)...In the two biggest tests of her leadership and judgement - "Clinton care" and the Iraq War authorization, she failed abysmally. She comes off as over coached and over consulted... I am at a loss to understand anyone who is liberal and progressive supporting her - except as better than any of the freak show on the Repub side...
SunSeeker
(51,612 posts)She is a woman and it's about time. She is strong. She is a progressive. She's been through hellfire and back. There is nothing the GOP can throw at her that she cannot deal with.
What really makes me excited about her is that I know for ONCE, women, which make up half of our nation's population, will no longer just be a "special interest." We will finally have a President using the bully pulpit to champion women's rights, to call out the sexist crap that goes on every fucking day.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)That is certainly no reason to vote for anyone.
That you mention it 1st is interesting.
Phillis Schlafly is also a woman.
So is Sarah Palin.
And in a democracy, it's not about time for any candidate.
SunSeeker
(51,612 posts)You ignore the rest of my post, just like this country has ignored women.
It IS about time we had a female President. Over half our population is female. The fact that we have never had a woman as President is an OUTRAGE. If you don't think we need to get more women in leadership, you don't really want a democracy. So don't lecture me like I'm the one who doesn't understand democracy.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)Uh.... no I didn't.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)Many of Clinton supporters would vote for Palin or Joni Ernst against Sanders
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)See how that petty attack can be written both ways?
Everyone knows that is much more likely anyway because many of them come right out and say it.
Geronimoe
(1,539 posts)We lost both houses of Congress, the Presidency and had a Supreme Court dominated by conservatives. When we finally got temporary control of Congress, Pelosi took impeachment off the table.
SHRED
(28,136 posts)Giving W the green light was foolish.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)or wrong stance Hillary has taken.
But think about her vote for the Patriot Act -- for a vague definition of terrorist act, a definition that could be used to people's detriment very easily, her campaign for a law that would make flag burning a punishable offense -- nicely patriotic but why waste the time on that?
Bernie is just a stronger candidate, especially on trade, on the rights of Americans, on the economy, on standing up to the right wing -- which is what we need right now.
If we compromise any more with the fanatical right wing we now have, we will tip over.
What do you do when dignified, fair compromise cannot be obtained, you fight and you call in the American people to support your fight.
When a two-bit governor takes on the public service unions and tries to shake them down, you speak up and you act on behalf of working people. You don't "compromise" by sending a post card and staying out of it.
We need a fighter in the White House, someone who cares about and will fight for the people -- and that is Bernie Sanders this time around.
I am sorry that Howard Dean has bought into the Hillary machine.
AnAzulTexas
(108 posts)you'd have been my vote if senator sanders weren't in it and you were to step in again (without making an irate ass of yourself like we all saw last time)
BuelahWitch
(9,083 posts)which ain't gonna happen. Sorry Howie, the "kool kids" won't ever let you sit at their able.
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)As far as leadership, I haven't seen any leadership from her on any progressive legislation. She just follows the polls and does so with saccharine conviction.
postatomic
(1,771 posts)Howard Dean addresses what is very important here; taking on the issues directly. Being able to work with her Democratic contemporaries in Congress. She's had the kitchen sink thrown at her and she is still standing. Hillary is one tough mo-fo.
Ron Green
(9,823 posts)or at least first for Democrats. And we may yet fail it.
Hailing endorsements and celebrating support from the keepers of the established systems is not moving in the direction necessary for our survival.
brooklynite
(94,667 posts)Ron Green
(9,823 posts)the bought politics and candidates developed for us over the past decades."
By "fail" I also mean "avoid taking a more active role as a citizen rather than continuing as a consumer who decides only to 'like' or 'not like' a candidate."
Juicy_Bellows
(2,427 posts)sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)until I realized it was satire.
SHRED
(28,136 posts)Digest this:
1. I believe that, when you have so few banks with so much power, you have to not only reestablish Glass-Steagall, but you have got to break them up. That is not Hillary Clintons position.
2. I believe that our trade policies, NAFTA, CAFTA, PNTR with China, have been a disaster. I am helping to lead the effort against the Trans-Pacific Partnership. That is not Hillary Clintons position.
3. We have to be aggressive in transforming our energy system away from fossil fuel, and defeat the Keystone pipeline. That is not Hillary Clintons position.
4. I believe that, as opposed to my Republican colleagues who want to cut Social Security, I believe we should expand Social Security by lifting the cap on taxable income. Thats not Hillary Clintons position.
5. I believe that we have got to raise the minimum wage over a period of several years to $15 an hour not Hillary Clintons position.
6. I voted against the war in Iraq. Hillary Clinton voted for it.
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/08/30/bernie-sanders-gives-6-huge-reasons-to-pick-him-over-hillary-video/
Faux pas
(14,686 posts)howard dean thought. Now I can give 2 shits.
Politicub
(12,165 posts)ChiciB1
(15,435 posts)It mortifies me that so many of the people we "thought" wanted what was best for America got invaded by The Body Snatchers! That was one super scary movie and one by one "POOF" you shut your eyes and IT'S DONE! So many liberals are fallen into the same hole! Can you say BARNIE FRANK???
Cha
(297,447 posts)ChiciB1
(15,435 posts)I guess saying "BS" is like meaning "BS" to some people. I'm just not one of them.
Cha
(297,447 posts)McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)Like Hillary, another failed 2008 candidate.
Voices from the past, when voters want a leader for the future.
It's deja vu all over again.
Fearless
(18,421 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)(That, and contrary to the myth that he was supposedly progressive, Dean has always had it in for the ACTUAL progressives in his home state-so why should he do Bernie any favors?)
Laser102
(816 posts)davidthegnome
(2,983 posts)I don't agree with him here though. There's a lot more to it than experience (Sanders happens to have a lot of that, too, though, perhaps, not on foreign policy so much) and being the smartest and/or toughest is debatable. It takes a mighty nerve for a democratic socialist to even stand up and say what he believes in, to challenge the status quo and the every day nonsense.
I love Dean, but I also love Sanders. Clinton will get my vote if she wins the nomination, but I am hoping that she does not. It's not that I dislike her personally, it's that I distrust her corporate ties, influence and overall greed. Living in the age of super PACs, it's hard NOT to say that about a politician.
Damn shame he never got the chance to be President. One of of my big fears is that the party line and the media will go after Sanders the same way they did Dean. If they do, I may just have to change my registration to independent.
I don't doubt Clinton's ability - what I doubt is whether or not she's really on the side of the average, working people, the poor, the every day people who struggle through life. I know for a fact that Sanders is - his voting record, his words, everything about him demonstrates it.
I don't want someone "Presidential", I don't want someone who can maintain the status quo and keep things civil. I want someone to shake the shit out of Washington and business as usual. I want a fire breathing democratic socialist who will put the fear of God back into some of these assholes who have stolen our Country, attacked our social safety net, given the taxes of the poor to the wealth of the rich (bail outs...). No. For me, only Sanders will cut it. It's time for turbulence man! It's time to kick some ass, just like I think Dean would have.
Enough is enough. Let's do something truly outrageous and elect Bernie Sanders.
ChiciB1
(15,435 posts)we need to figure out what!
Iwillnevergiveup
(9,298 posts)and wonderment. Pretty sure a fair number of us who supported and voted for Gov. Dr. Dean are righteously scratching our heads about another guy who represented Vermont.
Gloria
(17,663 posts)practical work vs. idealistic stuff from someone who means well, but cannot achieve his stated goals under the type of opposition we have as well as the economic realities we face.
D
Trajan
(19,089 posts)For many decades now ... That is ALL up in the air now ...
Those aren't idealistic programs - they are functional, NECESSARY programs for regular citizens ...
THOSE are the realities ... If Clinton isn't up to the job, then maybe she should stand aside ...
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Not what bills she voted for?
Now what she has said?
What has she achieved?
The mess in Syria? Is that to be credited to her account?
The TPP? Another mess to be credited to her account?
She sponsored a bill with Bennett to make burning the flag a criminal act. It didn't pass, thank heavens. What a waste. But she didn't succeed with it.
Now Bernie way back when as Mayor of Burlington, created a beautiful waterfront for the city. He was elected to four separate 2-year terms as mayor of Burlington. Clearly the people there felt he had accomplished things for them.
Bernie has been elected and re-elected to Congress repeatedly since 1990 because his constituents see him as having achieved things for them. That is a remarkable record.
Hillary -- what are he achievements? List them please. Not just jobs, but what has she done?
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)Sancho
(9,070 posts)Gloria
(17,663 posts)I sure hate to think that a lot of unrealistic people, wanting platitudes, could screw up our chances.
So, Sanders is about a "revolution." The best way to have a revolution is to control the Supreme Court.
All the Dems are together on key issues. I don't dislike Sanders...BUT....If the Dems get shoved into nominatiing Sanders, nice guy or not, he will lose. Then, what happens to all the
fans who grasped for promises without noticing the practicalities of running a government with a bunch of jackals in opposition?
What happens if the Repugs win??? There will be a DEvolution...there will be no revolution.
And I wish Dean were head of the DNC again, too...
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)fantasy. The Republicans hate her, have (unfairly but nevertheless) soiled her reputation.
I think Bernie has a much better chance of winning in 2016 than Hillary.
We shall see.
ChiciB1
(15,435 posts)I've heard she's wrapped up quite a few already. I never thought about this before and I should know the answer but don't, can the delegates change their minds? I have the sinking feeling that they can't and if THEY are already on board, we're STUCK! It would be GREAT to have a Convention that was more like it used to be. I doubt "they" will never let THAT happen either!
KINDA SUCKS! But, I'm still going to do all I can to support Bernie!
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)right thing for the Party and relinquish and free her delegates.
Used to be the first round of votes at a convention included a lot of votes for favorite sons -- the possible candidates from the states of the delegates and then moved on to the real votes.
These endorsements won't mean a thing if Bernie wins several primaries.
I campaigned for Bernie tonight at a very casual community street event. About 90% of the people in my area of Los Angeles who attended the event were for Bernie. It was incredible. I've done a lot of campaigning in my life and never seen anything like that.
ChiciB1
(15,435 posts)She's wanted to be POTUS for so many years I'm not sure she would/could be that charitable. I went to Howard Dean's FB page and was simply astonished that post after post after post called him out for his recent remarks and full on support for Hillary. Never thought HE would be so enthusiastic this early, not the same Dean I had a lot of respect for. I don't think he's even acknowledged what happened! I myself posted, but there were hundreds and hundreds and more hundreds and very few supported him.
I fear our Democratic Party doesn't care much for what "we the people" seem to want. FB ISN'T DU, so his popularity isn't just the so called "lefties" here. It was heartwarming and jaw dropping and yet we have people like Debbie Wasserman Schultz who seems to be almost a Repub! And she says she is the leader of the DNC and the rules give her a great deal of POWER!
She has her head up "you-know-where" from Day One, I think. We NEED to find a way to have our voices heard. Still, not ready to give up, we have a long time left... so let's keep working as best we can.
EEO
(1,620 posts)Hillary has too many donors who will make sure no meaningful change happens.
This is not an election cycle to vote for the establishment candidate.
Bill Clinton governed as a center-right president. Hillary will do the same. No more this way, no more half measures.
You want a genuine liberal who is not the lapdog of the large banks? Vote Bernie.
If not, vote for Hillary.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Dean:
oh wait.......
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)Still wish he was at the helm of the DNC though.
Gothmog
(145,443 posts)BrainMann1
(460 posts)I have a lot of respect for you.
sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)HappyPlace
(568 posts)And it's filled with half-truths and the praise is mostly subjective:
"toughest person in the race" sure. whatevs.
"has put forward specific policy proposals" huh? anything lately? mostly she's vague.
"history of getting things done across the political aisle" is not a stretch, but it's not a very long reach from where she sits.
It's primary season, I'm for O'Malley or Sanders because they've articulated very specifically a number of solid progressive positions including how they'll be accomplished.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Dean claims that Hillary is the smartest person in the room. I posted here just the other day that Sanders is the smartest person in the room. I will tell you why below.
I quote from the OP and the Washington Post article.
"Clintons three most compelling characteristics continue to be her vast experience in foreign and domestic policy; her tenacity and history of getting things done across the political aisle, particularly as a senator; and the ferocious enthusiasm of her followers, particularly among young women working for true political gender equity that is long overdue."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2015/09/01/howard-dean-the-case-for-hillary-clinton/
OK. Clinton's experience in foreign policy. In spite of the fact that she had lived in the White House and can claim to have been a close confidante of President Clinton for eight years, she still failed to question the Bush administration's claim that we had to invade Iraq due to WMDs and Al Qaeda. She had to have known that we really didn't know. She should have asked for verified evidence of Bush's claims. Other members of Congress, including Chaffee did.
And when the International Inspection team reported on the eve of our invasion (Vanity Fair April 2004) that Saddam had no WMDs, Hillary should have immediately called on Congress to investigate the lies and should have informed the American people.
Further, with regard to the War in Iraq and her vote, why did it take her so long to recognize the error in that invasion and her vote?
At the time of the vote on the Iraq War Resolution, BERNIE SANDERS, in contrast with Hillary Clinton asked the obvious question: OK, so we invade, we get rid of Saddam, WHAT THEN?
That Hillary did NOT ask that question tells me a lot about Hillary. That Bernie did ask that question tells me all I need to know about Bernie. BERNIE, not Hillary is the SMARTEST PERSON IN THE ROOM. He asks the central questions. All of Hillary's experience cannot make her as independent, or resourceful a thinker, a questioner as Bernie. Bernie is the smartest person in the room.
****
What did Hillary get done across the aisle?
Well, one of the things was introducing a law that would have made burning the flag illegal. I love the American flag. I would never burn it, but can you really call reaching across to a Republican to sponsor a law against burning the American flag much of an accomplishment? I don't.
The Flag Protection Act of 2005 was a proposed United States federal law introduced by Senators Hillary Rodham Clinton and Robert Bennett. The law would have outlawed flag burning, and called for a punishment of one year in jail and a fine of $100,000.[1][2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_Protection_Act_of_2005
Fortunately, it did not pass. What an exercise in pandering to the right wing of America. What a waste of time in retrospect. If that is Hillary's idea of reaching across the aisle, I don't think I want to vote for her. Not that it is wrong, just ????? What is the point?????
For that, she and Bennett got paid????
Wikipedia reviews her relationships with the Republicans. Looks to me like her hands stretched across the aisle were pretty much slapped down in most cases although she has been an effective and strong advocate for women's and children's issues:
As First Lady of the United States, her major initiative, the Clinton health care plan of 1993, failed to reach a vote in Congress. In 1997 and 1999, she played a leading role in advocating the creation of the State Children's Health Insurance Program, the Adoption and Safe Families Act and the Foster Care Independence Act.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton
On the other hand, she has in more than one instance voted for bills that she should have questioned. If that is what you do when you successfully reach across the aisle, I want nothing of it because the bills that are passed without that questioning affect my life and the lives of other Americans in negative ways.
Clinton voted for the USA Patriot Act in October 2001. In 2005, when the act was up for renewal, she worked to address some civil liberties concerns with it,[228] before voting in favor of a compromise renewed act in March 2006 that gained large majority support.[229]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton
At the time the Patriot Act was passed, I questioned its definition of terrorism and terrorist act which is unclear, potentially vague and overbroad. We all know terrorism when we see it, but so far it has mostly been applied to people of certain religions and maybe even ethnic backgrounds. The definition is not precise enough. That's a huge problem with a bill that creates criminal penalties.
And then there are the confusing provisions in the Patriot Act that have been used to permit the NSA to violate the privacy of American citizens. I haven't heard much from Hillary even now about the revision of the Patriot Act that is needed.
If passing bad legislation that should have been more carefully written is "compromise," I don't want it. Disagreeing on policy is one thing, but passing a poorly written, ambiguous bill just to please the Republicans is quite another. I'm not voting for a candidate that does that. At least you insist that the bill you pass is clear and doesn't permit the government to violate the rights of citizens.
Bernie, in contrast, voted against the Patriot Act and criticizes in particular the license to snoop and eavesdrop on law-abiding Americans that has been given to the elite core of our intelligence and NSA operations with that and other acts of Congress.
Hillary, again not smart enough, not careful enough, not analytical in her approach. She showed over and over the desire to be accepted by her colleagues rather than the kind of independent thinking and ability to see the big picture that a leader should show, that Bernie showed.
When it comes to leadership ability, Hillary headed the State Department for four years. We do not know why she left. That's most of her leadership experience other than working for non-profits.
Bernie's leadership experience was gained as Mayor of Burlington, Vermont, AN ELECTED OFFICE, to which he was elected in 1981 and re-elected to two-year terms three times, the last in 1987. He ran against well-funded opponents in some cases but was nevertheless picked to lead that city again.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders
Bernie even has a little teaching experience -- one year at Harvard. I can't quite picture that, but . . . check it out! Pretty impressive for a guy with only a high school diploma and a bachelor's degree.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders
Bernie lost elections when he started out as a politician, but he went on to try and try again, and has won election after election -- re-elected as mayor and to the House and then to the Senate more recently -- over and over. He has proved that he is electable.
Sanders was the first independent elected to the U.S. House of Representatives in 40 years,[55] the last having been Frazier Reams of Ohio. He continually won reelection with high margins, with his closest bid during the 1994 Republican Revolution, when he won by 3.3% with 49.8% of the vote.[56]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders
Sanders filed as a conscientious objector in the Viet Nam War. He did not serve. Neither did Bill or Hillary Clinton, Dick Cheney or any other president of the US. George W. Bush went into the national guard, stayed at home throughout the war and came as close to serving as any president. But he did not slog through rice fields, survive a POW camp or, as John Kerry did, serve honorably. Bernie's Viet Nam record, therefore, is an irrelevant factoid. I am just throwing in to be sure that it is covered.
Bernie voted against the first Iraq (Kuwait) War but supported bombing in the Kosovo conflict. He voted for the Afghanistan War and against the Iraq War.
Bernie's score on defense and national security is again, a smart one. He is not a pacifist on the one hand, nor a war hawk on the other. In this area, as in virtually all areas, he has shown great insight, far-ranging vision, and instinct for the morally correct choice and great respect for the Constitution and for the individual liberties, the freedom, of American citizens. I for one agree with Bernie's choices when it comes to the use of military force and foreign policy.
Bernie is an outstanding and vocal advocate for Veterans, for their health care, for their rights and for them as people. He is just beyond reproach in this area.
In my view, Hillary Clinton is strong as an advocate for women's and children's issues. But that is pretty much it. I question whether her policy in Syria and Libya has worked well. As many, many refugees make their way into Europe escaping the havoc that ISIS and the various wars in the Middle East are causing, I think that history will have to judge her role in the unrest.
Hillary is weak when it comes to willingness to sign and enforce the legislation we need to get our economy back on a road to prosperity for all of us. She is reported to oppose the passage of a 21st century Glass-Steagall Act that would protect taxpayers from yet another bail-out of the Wall Street gamblers.
It is in my view essential that we tell all bankers that they may not gamble on derivatives or other "investment" schemes with depositors or government money. Never. We need to take a new look at what is going on with Wall Street in terms of the use of computers, speed trading and the lack of a sense of fiduciary duty with regard to small investors. We need a new ethics in banking and investment and overall in our business community.
In contrast,
Sanders has been a vocal critic of Federal Reserve Chair Alan Greenspan; in June 2003, during a question-and-answer discussion with the then-Chairman, Sanders told Greenspan that he was concerned that Greenspan was "way out of touch" and "that you see your major function in your position as the need to represent the wealthy and large corporations."[71][72] Sanders said in 1998 that investment banks and commercial banks should remain separate entities.[73] In October 2008 Greenspan admitted to Congress that his economic ideology was flawed.[74]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders
Hillary was not in the Senate in 2008 when Congress voted to bail out the banks.
Sanders' heroic stance against that bail-out which resulted in the handing over of tax money to irresponsible, arguably criminal, bankers with almost no conditions, no strings attached that would have protected our economy and ordinary Americans is discussed on Wikipedia.
And I ask DUers to view this picture of Bill Clinton signing the Glass Steagall Act which set the stage for Bush's failure to enforce other securities laws and ultimately led to the 2008 crash.
https://www.google.com/search?q=signing+of+repeal+of+glass+steagall&biw=1011&bih=520&site=webhp&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAgQ_AUoA2oVChMItb7h1MnWxwIVhDKICh2oGwPz#imgrc=xeF6OSKHnBMATM%3A
Are they clapping or are a couple of them greedily wringing their hands in anticipation of the profits they hope to make?
That picture pretty much sums up what "reaching across the aisle" has come to mean for Democrats in our Congress.
It has come to mean trading huge tax cuts for the already under-taxed wealthy corporations and 1% of our population just to maintain a little bit of the money for food stamps, Medicaid and other programs desperately needed by the poor and working people in our country.
Democrats like Hillary invariably lose out when they compromise with the right-wing bigots and fanatics in our country. I know the self-appointed "realists" will ask, "What is the alternative? My answer is: a really, really strong fight for the interests of ordinary Americans. If you are going to lose as badly as Democrats lost in 2014, at least do it for a noble purpose, for fighting for what is right, not because you failed your voters by too readily compromising THEIR INTERESTS.
I could go on and on but I do want to end with one cautionary note.
I agree that most of the Republican s' personal criticism of Hilary is unfounded and unfair. She has the distinction of being the only First Lady to actually be subpoenaed to appear before a federal grand jury. See her Wikipedia page cited above for the sordid facts about the Republican campaign over more than 20 years to tear her down.
The good news is that the attacks on Hillary have failed every time. And that does speak to Hillary's strength.
The bad news is that if we elect Hillary, we will have to deal with the Republican attempts to poison her reputation for the entire term of her presidency. She has become their favorite dog to beat. We know what we think of people who beat their dogs over and over. But that doesn't help.
Bernie is dealing with that nonsense in the best possible way. He ignores it and he tells the press and everyone that he does not do negative campaigns; he does not do negative ads and he puts the burden on the nasty and hateful to do their thing without his help.
That is so refreshing. And Bernie can turn any question, any negative ad into an opportunity to tell Americans about the good future he wants to bring for our country. That is irresistible in my book. It is so refreshing. Bernie gets my vote on that count alone.
In contrast, the propaganda by the right against Hillary has been extremely successful. I have a friend who is liberal and actually thinks that there is something to one of the hideous stories told about Hillary.
I would support Bernie rather than Hillary even if Hillary were viewed as a courageous, wonderful woman by the Republicans.
Nevertheless for people who are not sure who to support, I think that all of us should consider whether we really think that Hillary, with all the unfairly negative stuff about her out there, has a chance to win in the general election.
I will bet that just about one or two weeks before the election, the Republicans will trump up some bogus claim about Hillary just in time to prevent her from responding to it. She attracts Republican dirty campaigning like no politiician before her.
All respect for Howard Dean, but our strongest Democratic candidate is Bernie Sanders. No question about it in my mind.
Sorry for writing such long posts. There is so much to say.
frylock
(34,825 posts)John Poet
(2,510 posts)Vattel
(9,289 posts)Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)ChiciB1
(15,435 posts)Kissinger for a long time. No, I don't have links that "say" this in so many words, but it's pretty well known by political activists.
ericson00
(2,707 posts)the Green Party and Socialist Workers might be good options.
Not when we have Bernie.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)Dr Dean's opinion carries absolutely no weight with me here despite my respect and admiration for him.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Well, So nice of you to show up on DU last month, to tell us who we're allowed to support.
ChiciB1
(15,435 posts)but too many have the wrong understanding abut what Socialism is. IT IS NOT Communist, nor does it mean that Socialism is a horrible thing. It would be NICE if there was more Socialism today as opposed to DLC or Right Wing.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Like code for drug war $$$$$gravy train to the DEA and the private prison industry lobby.
If she's so in favor of criminal justice reform, how about a clear answer on marijuana legalization? Medical marijuana? (oh, right, "we need more research" ... Surely she knows that the drug war is responsible for filling our prison cells with low level non violent drug offenders. Yet her buddy Debbie Wasserman-Schultz allies with sheldon adelson on the topic of arresting cancer grannies for getting high.
Specific policy proposals, my ass.
Cha
(297,447 posts)those who had questions about his racial injustice strategy. At least that's what his supporters led us to believe when they accused us of calling him "a racist".
snip from your link//
"These attacks are part of the process. If a candidate cant take a hit from the New York Times or Fox News, how are they going to stand up to Putin when he demands Alaska back?
All this has made Hillary more than the best person for the toughest job in the world. I want her as my president, and I trust her to do the kind of job that is necessary in a very tough world."
Thank you for standing up for Hillary against the US corporate goPropaganda media, Dean.. that only ever has an agenda .. not the "news".
Mahalo Nancy~
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Cha
(297,447 posts)who are dissing him now that he's supporting Hillary!
DCBob
(24,689 posts)Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)BooScout
(10,406 posts)Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)Ramming Clinton down our throats may finish off the party.
BooScout
(10,406 posts)TSIAS
(14,689 posts)If was about this time 12 years ago that Howard Dean was surging. Then, seemingly out of nowhere, an orchestrated "Draft Wesley Clark" came on the scene to try and take down Dean's campaign. Most of us Dean supporters felt that Clark was pushed in with the unofficial backing of Bill and Hillary Clinton. Now he's come to support the same candidate hardly represents the "Democratic wing of the Democratic Party". Voting for the war was so important for him in 2003-2004, but now it seems he is opposing the candidate who voted against the war.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)eridani
(51,907 posts)I have yet to hear a single story about self-organizing by previously uninvolved people who support Clinton. There are thousands of examples for Sanders. The local organizer for South Seattle is a 26 year old woman who has never voted. She just missed being old enough in 2008, and never saw a reason to get involved since. She and most of the younger attendees are very turned off to Democrats, but they do realize that they need us old leftover New Deal farts to teach them how to navigate the caucus system.
On September 6, a young man in SW King County has called a Sanders meeting in the Burien public library. Looked him up in VoteBuilder--No Data party ID classification. No one in the 33rd or 34th LD Dem organizations have heard of him, and I don't know him from any of the issue groups I work with either. (Check the Events thread under WA State--I do get around quite a bit and am on lots of lists.)
There is no way in hell that Clinton appeals to any of these kids. They despise banksters and anyone perceived to be in league with them. I noted that DEan never mentioned any proposals for reigning inthe banksters.
The older crowd of Sanders supporters are Democrats willing to support Clinton in the general election, but the kids are not, and they will just stay home.
snot
(10,530 posts)"Clintons three most compelling characteristics continue to be her vast experience in foreign and domestic policy;" check
"her tenacity and history of getting things done across the political aisle," examples, please? Most of her getting done seems to me to have had to do with her voting for Republican initiatives. What progressive initiatives has she accomplished?
"and the ferocious enthusiasm of her followers, particularly among young women working for true political gender equity that is long overdue." Ok, good on her followers; but that's about them, not her.
As for the rest, similar.
Clinton has voted for too many things that were the LAST thing we needed; and what did we get from them?
I'm with Bernie.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)R B Garr
(16,966 posts)"Clintons three most compelling characteristics continue to be her vast experience in foreign and domestic policy; her tenacity and history of getting things done across the political aisle, particularly as a senator; and the ferocious enthusiasm of her followers, particularly among young women working for true political gender equity that is long overdue "