Thanks for the post, recced.

to the point that they have become meaningless. Denigrating potential allies does not serve any constituency on the left end of the spectrum well. I believe that we pretty much agree on most issues. When we all do disagree, it is not helpful to anyone, regardless of who they support, to be met with a sneer and a snark. You need to have a sense that in the end, someone will have your interests in mind too later. Doing the dirty work of the Rs appears be the new hobby on all gradients of the left.

They reveal the mentality of the person throwing the label.

Across the gamut.

that, back in '01 through DU3, DU billed itself as a "premiere left-wing" message board. The language in "About DU" changed a great deal, as did many other things, with DU 3 and the election of a more centrist D to the WH.

Probably a bit of a trip to have your own creation take off with a life and a mind of its own. Dr Frankenstein I presume...

*Extreme Left", "Far Left", "Fringe Left"- how often have we seen those terms here? And yet, it turns out, we're the real center.

The insults, calculated to shut us down and slink away in shame, didn't work and here we are, with Sanders kicking the ass of the right wing of the party.

I think a the handful of DU'ers who label Sanders "extreme" are completely ineffectual. And honestly aren't worth bothering with.

Also Corp Media isn't "Center", they are Right Wing and Republican.

I am much more concerned with pushing back on Corp Media, especially when they unleash the hounds of hell when Bernie WINS in New Hampshire and Iowa.

Letters to the editor, knocking doors and telling the truth.

There does exist far-left thought in the USA. It's mostly discredited, but you can find it on DU. Look at supporters of Chavez in Venezuela, for example.

We needed someone to say this. The media is in complete denial.

Somewhere along the line a whole lot of them turned into moderate Republicans.

Nixon advocated for universal health care and signed the EPA into existence. I can't imagine Eisenhower being against Social Security.

And people bought into it.

A Reagan meme.

After all the conserving Carter wanted us to do... and the contrived gas shortage.

Follow that thread forward through the Vietnam War, the dynamic protests of the 60's that it produced, and the conservative counter-revolution that followed, that led to the loss of Goldwater and the election of Reagan.

Then go look up The Powell Memo, and that should just about do it.


In actuality, it goes all the way back to reconstruction and the surrendering of the Confederacy, and WWI &II played key roles in the destruction of American Progressivism, but Start with the loons in JBS.

Then for good measure, read Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klien. It will make you hurt, but it's supposed to.

read Richard Hofstadter.

Of course, folks have to want to know what underpins our political system du jour...

Remember, though, Eisenhower/Nixon had witnessed one party controlling the Presidency for 20 years and Congress for even longer. That was a powerful message to Republican politicians of that day that they had to do certain things to get into office and stay there, especially if they were Presidents looking for a second term.

The message sent by the DLC Democrats was a very different one. That was, if you really want to distinguish yourselves from us very sharply, you are going to have to go further right.

decades of the right, relentlessly screaming, "liberal media!"

Reagan was a big help, too.

It appears to alternate with "white supremacist".

What a vile online presence the Clinton supporters are waging.

of nuclear sludge on Latinos.

Someone here said something about there appearing to be a 10-to-14 day rotation cycle to air the same stale crap over and over.

Vile, but at this point, predictable.

Now is the time for a real progressive populist movement, but the message needs to be clear and not overly complex and it needs to be repeated over and over to drive it home into the minds of the people.

Then Bernie will win.

so would make most other dems center right

just like many of us always thought

"so would make most other dems center right "

Well, they take up so much room, you have to move somewhere.






(I couldn't help it)

The misuse of the term against Left-of-Center Democrats should be pilloried here, along with other reactionary rhetoric and Red-baiting.

The "extreme left" in America are a few Maoist cliques and personality cults, like the Bob Atvakians, who are so tiny, scattered, and broke that they are utterly harmless. On the other hand, the extreme Right seems to be well-armed, well-connected to the Rightwing of the Republican Party, internally cohesive, and very willing and able to carry out bank robberies, assassinations and other high-value pre-revolutionary actions.

Commie (socialist) buzz word.

Thanks for the thread, Catherina.

Dwight Eisenhower, a republican, had a top marginal tax rate of 91 or 92% every year he was in office.

It remained quite high till Reagan. But now with Bernie raising taxes on the wealthy is seen as fringe left. Non profit health care is another example. Until HMOs got the ball rolling we had something close to non profit health care here.

Being comfortably more liberal than HRC does not make Bernie a fringe leftist historically wise, because the whole baseline has moved hard right. Thus the Neo democrats are about where the republicans were pre Reagan, the Republican Party has moved to the crazy house.

Go figure.

I pointed that out to one of our resident HC supporters yesterday.

The only truthful, useful, but very self-defeating thing they accomplish with its use, is identifying their position on the ideological spectrum...

It brings back not-so fond memories of the '50s and the Democratic convention of '68.

. . . is rather laughable!

and Bernie Sanders supporters ain't it (I don't mean that in a bad or a good way...it just is).

The country has, indeed, turned to the left; the pendulum is swinging back

I cross circles with the local community of "revolutionary socialists" -- essentially underemployed philosophy majors from the local college. I've gotten to know some of them very well and become friends with them over the years. They're very smart, very creative. We've had many lively discussions.

Anyway, Bernie Sanders has the leftist community intensely divided (what else is new?) Individuals whose stock in trade for years has been to defiantly condemn participation of any kind in the normal political process are now faced with a decision over Bernie Sanders. The arguments and debates have been intense.

Honestly, I'm mildly enjoying their infighting. I've endured their abuse (good-natured) over the years. They've always labelled me as a "liberal" -- which is the strongest possible slur among leftists. Now they're debating whether Sanders is a "liberal" and whether support for Sanders makes one a "liberal".

The center isn't where you are. The center is the predominant views of the country. And that's not Bernie Sanders, Hillary Clinton, or Barack Obama. All of them are liberal.

If the center of the country was the hard left (meaning the perspective where Hillary and Obama are nearly Republican), do you really imagine that the United States would have a majority of the Senate being in actual Republican hands?

I mean really.

It's fine to argue for your political point of view, but for God's sake, don't make a fool of yourself saying things that are so overwhelmingly over the top silly, it makes people want to laugh at you.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

Our Masters include Wall St bank$, Biggest Corps, top billionaires,
biggest investment groups, the MIC, etc.

They are virtually all right wing politically.

They are the ones who actually run the country (thru their political frontmen).

Oh, and 2+2=4.

Rushbo and Fox noise folks like Billo bellow "far far left" and "extreme left" so often people take it as a fact. I remember when Michael Moore told Billo (back when Fox kept inviting him on so he could crush their stupid ideas again and again) that outside of god-guns-and-gays, America was actually liberal - Liberal on education, environmental issues, health care, minimum wage and spending for infrastructure. Billo was incredulous of course. Now the gay canard has collapsed, and the religion crap may be about to swing back towards sanity if the candidates continue with their lies and bigotry. Bernie isn't just center-left, he's just plain old and refreshingly sane. It's been so rare to hear sanity proffered by an American politician that it can seem radical to our ears.

The media is fully culpable in all of this. There is no Benghazi issue. There is no Planned Parenthood issue. The Affordable Care Act did not cause death and destruction. And for heaven's sake, our President is not a secret Muslim. Yet each of these issues is prominently discussed by our media, on sadly both the right wing channels and the so-called liberal ones too.