I am starting to think that I don't ever want an entity with this kind of slime machine devotedly attached to represent me or my country.

I admit I'm a 25 year old white guy so I do fit the meme of young white guys supporting Sanders but I happen to know that Sanders has supporters who are white, native American, African American, Asian, Latino...the Sanders support is not limited to whites like the meme that is going around suggests.

... maybe should have read "are all white". Kind of sounds like your argument is that he doesn't have any. We've seen pictures so we know that he has them. Besides you can find a few POC at a Jeb Bush event. I do agree with you that people should get to know someone before making assumptions or passing judgment.

extremely underrepresented. Part of it is Hillary is more mainstream and most immigrants and POC despite of what tRump and the Teajadis claim want to be part of the main stream.

I am 100% Sandernista, and he has done a wonderful job at inclusiveness as a legislator, but his message somehow doesn't resonate with POC. Though it seems like he's starting to get through.

Long way to go in the campaign still. I'm a Clinton supporter, but if Bernie wins it, he will have my vote and support. I think Hillary has a better chance in the general, but I'll be happy with either one.

picture than which Democrat gets to be President. It'll take a serious turn out to start the return of Congress to sanity.

We also have defeat the meme of "dysfunctional Federal government regardless of which party leads".

to see pop up again in this campaign. I know so many minorities who are supporting Bernie, more every day, But hey, I just let the 'meme' no doubt paid for some Corporate funded think tank, keep on going. It only helps Bernie. Racism is ugly and it is sad to see it used in this way. But I'm not going to try to analyze those who stoop to that level for political reasons. I'm thrilled we have such a great candidate in this race, one of the best ever.

...as a very small bit of humor, but there are those who can see racism in someone who prefers vanilla ice cream over chocolate.

It's the most hideous campaign tactic that could be imagined, brought to life.

I don't understand why Hillary Clinton is going this way.

Dirty politicians campaign dirty. They can't help themselves, it's who they ARE.

Her only goal is to be the first woman President. She doesn't really care about anything else.

You're not going to see them sit down and calmly discuss issues. They know their ideas are unpopular because their ideas come from the one percent. So they resort to race-baiting and personal attacks. Anything to distract from the issues. Oh look, a picture of the Clintons with their grandchild....

the hillary campaign wants you to think that to alienate you. its the narrative they want to sell. hillary is losing support almost by the day and woman are leaving her in droves. bill clinton had a lot of aa support, and hillary needs the support of poc to have a prayer against either bernie or biden (actually, any candidate needs to appeal to a wide variety of voters). so as part of the inevitability meme, they are trying to push the idea that sanders only appeals to white voters (they have said worse but i am not going to repeat it). if he can only appeal to "white volvo drivers" that leaves poc (they hope) to gravitate to hillary.

nice, huh?

its always great when campaigns avoid slimy politics

A sampling of the posts from this person should give you some idea of their pattern and reason.

Last edited Thu Sep 24, 2015, 07:58 AM - Edit history (1)

Never mind.

Because they have a failing campaign on actual issues, and a candidate in disarray, so "why not"?

Hi. I'm also an Indian American that immigrated to the U.S. at the age of two. There was one thing from what you wrote that surprised me. You said that one of the reasons you experienced racism is because of your accent. But, I am sure you have an American accent since you came here at the age of 2. Right from my childhood, I've spoken with an American accent.

Last edited Thu Sep 24, 2015, 08:43 AM - Edit history (1)

so funny story...I grew up in a heavily Indian area in NJ for a while, so I had a slight accent growing up. still noticeable enough to others to elicit bullying. i don't have it anymore though

Had friends during my youth whose parents were here at the local major university working on a cure for AIDS, and who happily practiced their culture while they were here. They probably faced some(lots?) of discrimination, but I've always felt that what makes us different is what makes us special.

if they saw our Bernie volunteers. Of the three of us co-chairs in our local Bernie group, I'm Caucasian, one if Hispanic and one is African American. The minority in our wonderful group of volunteers is are Caucasians. It's the advantage of recruiting on a college campus.

poison as many minorities as possible with the false meme before they can hear Bernie's ideas with their own ears.

Because once they hear Bernie speak they will know this propaganda is bullshit.

Though I do believe they expected this meme to have accomplished its task by now.

Ahhh...yes, I know exactly what part of New Jersey you grew up in!!

up here, it gave them a meme to try to take him down with. The reality is his rallies up here are proportional to the local population.

Black Lives Matter protest in Portland, ME

Bernie threatens the current power structure. Therefore, he must be stopped by any means necessary in their eyes.

Power-seekers.

You can smell it in the way they talk.

In many cases I, unfortunately, believe you are correct.

------------------------------------------------------\/

"The internet is a gift from God", Pope 9/2015

Sometimes with limited information, sometimes with a lot of information. Everyone assumes and those assumptions are often wrong. If one were to assume that a Sanders supporter on this site is white, they would stand over a 99% chance of being correct. If one were to assume that a Clinton supporter on this site is white, they would stand over a 99% chance of being correct. One thing no one here really talks about, except the number of times it has been brought up by our AA members, is that this place is an absolute echo chamber. It really isn't a far fetched assumption to make though I also think it is excellent you brought it up. Though I think the important part of the message is how overwhelmingly "white" this place is. That aspect has been discussed many times by our minority members.

I'm truly sorry that accusation was thrown at you. I have often seen minorities treated poorly here and there is no separation as to whom people support in this primary.

It sure isn't an echo chamber. The overall tone may be more in one direction than another at any given time, but overall I think it has historically been a mix of mutual back slapping and slaps in the face.

Please look at any primary poll posted. Please search the AA forum and look for this exact aspect being discussed. Truly an echo chamber in almost every single way. Notice how few posters are actually involved in the knock down drag out fights here. It pales in comparison to those sticking to issues and promoting progressive causes, these names just aren't recognized as much as the flamethrowers.

As for the serious discussions vs the knock-down fights...Well, as with any other venue, the emotional and sensational tends to get the most attention on the General forums on DU, while substance tends to get overlooked by all but those who are most involved or in the groups or ultra specific forums.

From personal experience, I know that over the years I've written carefully thought-out posts that were very oriented to serious issues, in a way that was factual and thoughtful (even if biased), in an attempt to actually initiate serious discussion. Those tended to sink like stones. But a post that says "Obama sucks" or "Sanders sucks" or some variation based on candidates or "sides" of an issue will get replied to and stay at the top of the list.

DU is an echo chamber, you really shouldn't be posting at sites that *ARE* echo chambers and host to bigotry.

Perhaps many believe his supporters are predominately white because of initial images out of early states. Really, that may be more indicative of the general makeup of the states he was in at the time.

As for why you were told to check your white privilege, I imagine it must have been over the perceived tone of your comment, rather than simply your support of Bernie Sanders. Why shouldn't you support Bernie Sanders? He's a democratic candidate for president.

A lot of the bitterness on the site between Bernie Sanders supporters and African Americans has bubbled up because of how many African Americans on DU have felt they have been treated by white Bernie Sanders voters. This behavior has not been exhibited by every Bernie Sanders supporter or even every white Bernie Sanders supporter.

Really, some of the animosity was already there between some DUers and the African American posters on DU. Some of it was a carryover from discussions of Trayvon Martin, Michelle Obama's heckling, and just general animosity toward President Obama, and discussions of white privilege. Unfortunately, some of these same individuals are now ardent Bernie Sanders supporters.

When it was Trayvon Martin...in their minds, justice was well served. Not necessarily a sentiment understood as rational to African American DUers. In the case of Michelle Obama's heckling, she had a right to be heckled and should have handed over her mic to the heckler. Again a notion, odd to African Americans, she's a 1st lady, not an elected official. The general animosity to the President...well, odd to African American DUers since he is a democratically elected, democratic president. And finally, suggestions that institutional racism has created structural problems for people of color (seemed reasonable to many African American DUers), which inherently create opportunities of privilege for white people, met with absolute denials and protests from some DUers (seemed hard to deny to many African American DUers).

Unfortunately, typically, the same group of DUers were often in each of these interactions and were perceived by some African American DUers as hostile to African American DUers and African Americans in general. They just happened to be democrats.

Now many of this same set are ardent Bernie Sanders supporters. They're kind of blended in. A tiny, but vocal group, blended in with a larger unsuspecting contingent. So, in walks, simply an honest Bernie Sanders supporter...perceived as part of the hostile pack.Unfair...absolutely. Surprising...not at all.

There are African American supporters of Bernie Sanders. There are allies of African Americans who are not African American who are supporters of Bernie Sanders. But, unfortunately there is also a tiny carryover group who brought their hostilities with them into the Bernie Sanders supporters. So, its not always easy to sort it all out. They're not hard to spot, though. Good Luck! Maybe you should try to PM them.

I agree with you that it is complex. But that stuff is a two way street.

For example, I generally think President Obama is great. But he has also take stands or done things that are contrary to my own personal values and beliefs. I criticized him strongly during the health care debate because I totally disagreed with what he was doing. (Still do.)

How often did people like me who disagreed with him on that issue and criticized him get tarred with "attacking out first Black President" as if we should hold our tongues (keyboards) and just go along because he is President and he happens to also be an African American. Too often for comfort. If a President Kerry had handled it in the same way, does that mean we can criticize, but President Obama should be above criticism?

It does always work both ways. You're right. The well has been poisoned. Well meaning individuals can move forward, form alliances, and agree to disagree. But, there is a lot of mistrust. For instance, I can't think of any AA DUer who hasn't disagreed with President Obama at some point, either about single payer, or education issues, etc. But, tone and trust can carry you a long way.

I tell my kids, if someone trusts you, you can tell them anything. But, if someone doesn't trust you. You can't tell them anything. So, when I speak of a carryover effect, I guess I mean that there were several that seemed to jump into forums where AA DUers were present after the Trayvon Martin incident to proclaim that justice was well served. Well, OF COURSE, the killer was set free. There was no other possibility based on the evidence. This is a ridiculous notion to me. I live in the American south. Deep South. I can find Dixie flag waving, tobacco chewing and spitting, individuals who agree with that sentiment...that justice was served. But, I have actually found a few that wondered...what the hell? Yeah, surprised me, too. But, I didn't expect to find any DUers pontificating positively on that trial.

But, let's say I did believe it, "justice was served" and I knew you didn't. That was such a dark time of grief for African Americans in America, there is no way I would show up behind every AA DUer post I could find, just to be sure they understand I felt like justice was served. I just don't think that much of my opinion, that I would feel comfortable injecting myself into that angst. But, for some, it felt almost like a sport.

We're adults in a free country. Of course, we'll disagree. But, interactions aren't without consequences. We all suffer them. This board has suffered them. I think African Americans can distill honest criticism from ...hmm, the president can't seem to do ANYTHING right for some people. Shucks...it seems to be the same group that thinks justice was served. Wait, apparently it's the same group that doesn't believe in institutional racism. (There are even a few, who have proudly proclaimed, they simply trashed groups and ignored DUers not to have to suffer listening to that tripe.) The same group that thinks it's horrible the 1st lady didn't hand her microphone to a heckler, but were indignant when hecklers, heckled an elected official running for office.

I mean...if you were us...what would you think? Food for thought...in terms of equal opportunity offending...White Americans are the racial majority, with a 77.7% share of the U.S. population. African Americans are the largest racial minority, amounting to 13.2% of the population. At 13% of the population, trust is important. Because as a demographic, you're in charge of very little.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_United_States

PS. During that Michelle Obama heckling fiasco, I had a DUer tell me Fredrick Douglas would have been EMBARRASSED of Michelle Obama and would have praised the heckler. Again, if you were us...what would you think? I don't recall you being in the carryover group. I'd have to take your word for it.

But, keep in mind, there are some in that group, quite content with the current status quo. It provides a lot of cover.

this is news to me. Wow.

I was visiting a smallish mixed forum then where those with those attitudes identified themselves proudly as conservatives and TPers and constantly reviled liberals, progressives, and Democrats, all dirty words to them. I actually came here specifically TO leave those attitudes behind.

and her supporters are now some of her most strident supporters and despise Bernie and post nasty things about him and despise his supporters. That's real interesting to me.

It's interesting to me too. And yes, I saw what I did there. .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6017420&mesg_id=6018254

And I saw what you did there

I believe the screen name at the new Conservative Cave, I mean pro-Hillary site, is "Chae."

Like with *the letter,* folks are being played... big time.

I should probably have capitalized the C in "what'Cha" to make myself clearer.

Got'Cha. (I originally missed what you did there... I'm sleepynva and should have been in bed about three hours ago!)

Yes, it is possible to oppose Hillary in 08 and support her now. As between Hillary and Obama to pick Obama in 08 and as between Hillary and Bernie to pick Hillary in 16. And talking about another poster behind their back. This does nothing to convince anyone to pick Bernie over Hillary or anyone else. It's just bitter hatred and inability tolerate different opinions.

I'm not surprised.

That's pretty crazy. It's pretty amazing he's not in prison for his long history of violence.

I have always been a critic of Barack Obama, and have taken quite a bit of heat for it over the years.

And there has always been this assumption on the parts of some that the only reason to be a critic of Obama was race-based, which is simply not the case for me.

It's a matter of issues. Obama's positions are not mine, and, in some important instances, are quite antithetical. To begin with, I'm a teacher. He put himself in opposition to teachers, publicly, during the '08 primaries. It was written on the wall for anyone who wanted to acknowledge it to see, and he followed up in fine style to keep himself there: Arne Duncan, RTTT, etc..

I'm not a neo-liberal. He is. That simply says it all. It doesn't mean that I "hate" him. I don't. But he and I don't see eye-to-eye on so many issues.

I'm a Sanders supporter because he and I DO see eye-to-eye on most, not all, issues. That's what it's all about for me. It's not at all about Obama.

For the rest? I've been a strong advocate for racial justice since my mom took me to hear Angela Davis speak when I was just 11 or so years old. To be honest, while I like Michelle Obama well enough, I really haven't paid any attention at all and didn't even know that there was a heckling incident, until you just told me. I've never paid any attention to whatever FLOTUS was in office. Maybe Eleanor Roosevelt, retrospectively, but that's because my class read a biography somewhere along the line; I was born well after her tenure.

so they push this BS

It doesn't really have anything to do with white people or privilege.

It's pretty much entirely about people saying the phrase as loudly and often as possible to enjoy the sensation of hearing themselves say it. It's just trolling.

White privilege is very real, but misapplied to the original poster.

That there is a power and perception differential between white people and other demographics in the States is not in question, but that's nothing do with the use of the phrase "white privilege". The phrase's primary purpose is as a communication block, not as a description of the way white people relate to the rest of the country. That's not what the phrase is *for*. It's like "mansplaining" or "feminazi" or "the gay agenda" or "American Exceptionalism"... There's nothing added to the understanding of race relations by grouping white people into a blob and painting attributes all over them, white people are as diverse within their demographic as any other demographic.

It's just sufficiently vague enough that it can be used to accuse people of things without needing to demonstrate that the thing is in fact true - establishing some nebulous unwholesomeness on behalf of the accused. It's got nothing to do with what the accused actually thinks, what the accused actually does, what the accused's personal qualities actually are, thus there is no way of refuting it, therefore it serves no purpose other than to have the word "privilege" smeared over someone.

An attribution that is irrefutable by virtue of refuting it becoming evidence for it's legitimacy has no value. Why "privilege"? Because it sounds like the position of the person holding the privilege is somehow undeserving of it, no other reason. It's the overtones of the phrase that are important, not the definition, which is a ridiculous idea anyway. One can no more blame white people as a race for racism or power differentials than one can blame Islam for 9/11.

It's just "officially sanctioned" conflation, that's all.

Hence the OP, which details this process, the "misapplication" is in fact the purpose of the phrase. The attribution of status via labelling rather than understanding. The ending of communication.

That's why people use it. It's to convince themselves they've won an argument on the Internet.

They set up the hoop in another room, shoot and score. It's got nothing to do with real white people.

The white privilege is not a method of shutting down a conversation, but rather a term that should open your eyes to alternate views of a given situation.

You may ask, "what is white privilege?" Well in simple terms it means the ability to move through American society without racial inhibitions or prohibitions.

African Americans have been trying to explain to us white folks that their experience does not benefit from the privileges that our skin color/names/etc provide socially, politically, and in business.
Understanding that you are a product of this privilege does not make you a bad person or diminish your accomplishments, but should make you aware and sympathetic to the difficulties of those that don't enjoy said privileges.
Those white people that have the means need to be actively destroy the caste system (which is what it is) that our white ancestors have left to us.
All of our fellow citizen's long term prospects for freedom and equality depend on it

None of the things you describe are unknown to anyone. Everyone already knows that black people are "othered" from the rest of society in the United States. It's been that way forever.

"African Americans have been trying to explain to us white folks that their experience does not benefit from the privileges that our skin color/names/etc provide socially, politically, and in business."

No.

African Americans have BEEN explaining to the rest of the populace, and not just white people, that their experience does not map to the standard expectations of human progress in American society. They are disenfranchised.

I'll go further.

Society does not close the deal.

Black people are not perceived as being wholly the originators of their own success or humanity, an artificially generated context is placed around them, it's a special "black" kind of success that isn't the same as ordinary human success, it's typically reacted to as more surprising or less expected than the success of other demographics. Other demographics. Not "white people".

This means that when a black person tries to get ahead in life, generally, they are likely not treated with the same level of respect, the same level of expectation of success, the same level of trust and give-and-take that one might expect as a non-black person. Non-black person. Not "white" person.

Black people are assumed to be less trustworthy and more violent than the rest of the populace, for no good reason. The police are well known for lacking the ability to relate to ordinary black people as if they are distinct from things that they are reminded of then confronted with them.

Black people are oppressed by these phenomena.

Oh, look. I think exactly the same thing you do. But... where did the white privelege go?

Hmmm.

None of this is "white privilege".

If there was a necessity (which *I* do not see, as far as I'm concerned it's just yet another way of turning the story of black oppression into yet ANOTHER story about white people) to attribute qualities to the experience of white people as a way of highlighting the discrepancy between the way white and black people are treated by society as a whole, it would make far more sense to describe it as white normativity, which would be similar to the term used by gay people (and others) to describe the heterosexual experience, that term being "heteronormativity", as we can only take the experience of white people as "normal", not "priveleged". It is not a "privelege" to be treated as an ordinary person by the police. That's what we should expect.

But that's not the term being used.

Why not?

There is a great deal to be gained emotionally from using the term if one is white, however. It becomes an identity process. "Look at me, I'm so understanding." I see the term bandied about far more regularly by white people than black people. It's a badge of honour. White Saviour Complex, basically, which phrase, you may like to know, I am very happy to treat as a useful description.

It's also yet another story that doesn't really have any black people in it.

I can see that you are hardened into your worldview and are incapable of understanding the viewpoints of others.
Your lack of understanding about the privileges white people enjoy in our culture demonstrates the power of hegemonic systems that prop up the values of the dominant ideology.
Your final fall back to the "White Savior Complex" underscores this point.
POC need allies and understanding, not 'saviors' to break an inherently corrupt and unjust system that oppresses and robs all of us of our potential as a society.

I know Sanders' history on civil rights. It's a good history. It's not an issue for me at all about any of the current candidates.

Everyone is a very broad category. Everyone does not believe the same things. That much is very clear.

Or just one person did?

the well for Sanders to both hold whites that are low information hoping they just hear racism and steer clear and of course maintain that last real firewall. If they have much slippage on minority support the house of cards comes tumbling down like a game of Jinga after the party has gotten too boozed up for fine motor functions.

They understood this strategically from the beginning hence the instant focus and constant yet nonsensical hammering of the theme.

Sanders has a relatively small percentage of the non-white vote in the primary. That isn't to say that no minorities support Sanders, but polling is clear that the majority of both black and Hispanic voters are supporting Clinton at this time.

That said, it's still stupid to assume that everybody who supports Sanders is white. As the saying goes, on the Internet nobody knows you're a dog.

made a bunch of threads about how black people should support Sanders.

more than usual.

most indian americans support clinton .so it was interesting when you
made a bunch of threads about how black people should support Sanders.

Ain't it??? Every post is dictating what black people should be doing apparently under the belief that because s/he isn't white themselves, that it's not patronizing, unwanted and unhelpful for them to do so. 'Tis such a curious thing.

and even if they do decide to call on their own community to support their candidate i bet it wont be in the same patronizing condescending tone.

i could even understand focusing on other groups because they may have more influence due to numbers. but if you are going to bring up your own background as justification for it the FACT that those of that same background are supporting someone else should be an important point.

So they make up stuff like this. It's pretty revolting that they feel a need to bottom feed on race. It's pathetic, IMHO.

You know I'm beginning to worry about you people. Hope you all can recover once you realize Bernie has zero chance.

And she continues losing momentum to this day.

Her hemorrhaging support will turn into a gusher once the debates begin.

Not only is your reply insubstantial, but it's also got a good solid factual error at its core.

Maybe instead of this constant sneering at people for supporting a Jewish man running for president, you ought to focus on why people ought to support your candidate? her positions on issues, her stances where it matters?

All of our denizens matter!

I'm sure they'd love your input on how to improve their forum. HA HA, just kidding.

it probably is 99% white. What percentage of Bernie's support do you think is from white folk? It's huge and a well known Bernie problem so saying I'm posting false information is a big fat lie.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=obama+crowd+in+south+carolina+2008&FORM=HDRSC3#view=detail&mid=33B08B60CB965EA9A44933B08B60CB965EA9A449

straw man.

A majority of them are - you are seriously going to dispute that?

And the OP said that people were always assuming they were white. We've heard of cases where minorities were told they couldn't be minorities or weren't really minorities because they were supporting Sanders. This all part of some very ugly attacks on Sanders and his supporters.

Its been around since he announced.

...with a long track record in staunch support of civil rights and a solid F-rating from the NRA.

Come on people, let's just throw shit against the wall, repeat it often enough, and see what can stick!

Par for the course for Team Hillary... taking the moral highground as always.

This thread from Sep 5 attacks Sanders supporters for 'telling Latinos how to think' by having a protest in protest of Joaquin Castro for pushing false information about Sanders. The OP assumes the Sanders supporters are white.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251572717

Two days later, Sep 7th a DUer reported on the rally in question having been there. Rally was organized by Latinos for Bernie:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251575777

The person who posted the initial very racist smear never retracted, eventually self deleted saying 'I don't feel safe here'. Lies and spreads bigotry, gets called on it and claims to be the victim. It's exploitative crap.

I will apologize for them. I'm ashamed of my race sometimes.

But Sanders supporters are likely to be white. Just look at the polling demographics.

Do you have a point?

is an issue his campaign needs to work on. Facts are facts.

The point is that the assumption you presented is not far off.

who is lost on the irony of their own sense of white privilege by telling you that.