There he goes under the mass transit vehicle!

... progressive hero like a public transportation vehicle!!

...he stated he would implement a much more limited drone program. I don't have a problem with that position.

This seems to be a mountain of a molehill type of situation...

Were absolute that the use of drones is wrong.

That said, there really are some bad people out there who want to kill us, and drones are part of our defense against them. That said, Bernie's idea of a more limited use (with less 'collateral damage' implied) seems sound. Because right now, under Obama, drone attacks are creating more terrorists than they kill because the victims are profoundly outraged over that very same 'collateral damage' which in human terms is the killing or awful maiming of loved ones. Here's a link from the Atlantic about how our drone strikes are being used by terrorists as a recruitment tool: http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/08/how-drones-create-more-terrorists/278743/

Now, treestar, like Howard Zinn, I believe that war should be banned. If all of us refused to go, then governments wouldn't be able to have the pissing contests that start stupid wars. That said, since I don't see that happening in the near future, I advocate that we keep our strength up and respond when and as necessary, then GO HOME. It's that third step that gets us in trouble. We don't go home. We stay - as Jon Stewart put it, 'we love you LONG time.'

The real problem isn't drones, it is the economic and political power of the deep state (formerly known as the military industrial complex). You can't tell me, for instance, that we went into Iraq for any other reason than raising profits for companies like Halliburton.

...that save lives of American soldiers. However, current use seems to be indescrimately shoot at anything that moves and ask questions later. That does lead to a high number of civilian deaths, which is unacceptable of course. I think Sanders statements on drones falls in line with those feelings.

...about a grayscale image, no matter how good the resolution, from 20k feet up, being remotely flown by some guy in a seat somewhere drinking coffee. No matter how good the intel is, you aren't going to be 100% on the target 100% of the time.

I sincerely believe they do try to make sure the targets are valid but because of how much they're used, failure is just going to happen. And that's why I'm against them.

They are the cowards weapon and I would argue even dishonorable.

But I understand why Sanders would continue to use them because 1) the American public prefers them and 2) they prevent future Black Hawk Downs.

I would prefer that if we were to play world police that we'd go and arrest people and put our people in danger and actually prove that we're doing the right thing by going after these belligerent groups that kill people. But no one wants to hear about how Seal Team X lost 10 guys in an OP trying to get a guy when we could've just droned the base he was in.

days before the debate?

hmm......

And it's one of the issue on which I disagree with Mr. Sanders.

Same as it always has been.

Bernie is comparatively passive and his focus is on inclusiveness and serving the citizens.

He is not longing to be the Top Cop on the block, enforcing western ways to ensure a steady stream of profits for the wealthy few.

Which is, in the end, what our foreign policy is all about.

I've heard on DU that amounted to failure to hold his feet to the fire, naive because no one should trust politicians.

nt

But since there has been a non firm stand already made on drones, we are to "assume" that its use will be at some incremental amount that is acceptable. Got it. Sanders supporters must be flexible to accommodate Bernied burgeoning reality.

Clearly he knows many of his supporters are aghast at this statement but it shows he at least he understands the reality of the situation regarding drones.

He will be able to talk the Republicans into single payer, and such a persons can clearly convince Islamic extremists that they are wrong and should change.

... the fiery Bern.

Bernie is evolving, yeah.

I trust him to see that there is a lot of oversight on this.

a lot more authentic and genuine.

President Obama.Not a knock on Sanders I just think that when a candidate becomes President some things are out of there control.Including Trade agreements.All Presidents republicans and.Democrat Presidents sign Trade agreements.I firmly believe that there are powers that be tell the President certain things they must do Wether they agree or not

But I appreciate that he isn't pandering to me and to other liberals who oppose drone use.

And this is how things work in the real world.

How can you support a candidate who says they would continue to use drones? We are supposed to stick to our principles. Looks like time to find another candidate.

No, they haven't. So then the question graduates from "who would vs. who wouldn't," into a question of how and when they would use them.

Really? Because unfortunately Clinton will be far MORE hawk-like on drones than Sanders will ever be. We need drones right now because we've made so many fucked up mistakes in foreign policy since 2001 (actually FAR predating that if you read your Chomsky and Zinn). We just don't need as much 'collateral damage' which is the euphemism for the killing and horrible maiming of victims of drones who were innocent and unrelated to the 'target.'

I like Bernie more because he said what he said, because it is a moderate position - he wants less collateral damage and more limited use. But he isn't taking drones off the table. And he shouldn't. I'm pretty liberal, but we are not currently in a position to beat those swords into plowshares. Not just yet.

Maybe 2 or 3 liberal presidencies later we will be. But not now.

When people support a non-status quo candidate because of ideals, they're unrealistic uncompromising ideologues who don't understand the "real world."

When they accept that they differ with a position of their candidate -- or perhaps they agree with one of his pragmatic positions -- they're hypocrites.

Bullshit Catch 22.

Drones, Israel / Palestine, how we should engage Russia, etc. I don't pretend he's perfect. I just realize that he's still better on those issues than the other people running, if only by a margin.

So even we wild-eyed liberals won't get everything we want with Sanders. My friend above is incorrect when she tries to simplify this into a binary life-or-death principle. If Sanders had been announcing his intention to start a war with Iran, we'd be at that level. Buy I won't deign to play the starry-eyed, naive liberal who must have all or nothing, just so I can fit someone's stereotype. There's no margin in it.

who would be kicked out of court for leading guestions towards witnesses .

With all of the HC posters jumping on Bernie over this issue she must have.

I guess I missed it.

It's certainly not breaking news:

at least not since he's been in congress. He's just not as bad as the rest. Though he sure was antiwar back when he was of draft age.

It's when you introduce a lack of oversight, secret kill lists, etc. that it becomes an issue.

I don't trust her not to start another war just to prove she is strong on defense (i.e., for political reasons).

sadly this is part of the world we live in. I also didn't crucify President Obama for using them.

Last edited Sun Oct 11, 2015, 10:27 PM - Edit history (1)

All that and more?? But, but ....HRC is a HAAAAAAAAAAAWK!!!

If he simply means 'flying things with cameras', I'm fine with that for terror ops.

I much prefer a well run drone program to boots on the ground or even air strikes by piloted jets. But the key is, the program must be limited and well run.

so loved, right?

And it's not new he came out pro-drone a few months ago: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141193195

that's why this thread is about Bernie and not about Hillary. Bernie loyalists have been leading many to believe that wars would be done away with as would the use of drones because of (1) cost and (2) lives.

Looks like he evoloved...which is another thing Bernie loyalists are so proud of Bernie Not doing....it's all so very confusing.