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Bernie Sanders calls for single payer and an end to private prisons. (Original Post) JaneyVee Oct 2015 OP
NOT GOOD ENUFF BERMIE? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #1
I'm not sure what he should have done. JaneyVee Oct 2015 #2
So you don't know but it still wasn't good enough. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #3
What do you think he should have done? JaneyVee Oct 2015 #5
It's your opinion not mine, you tell me. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #9
Do you think anything should have been done? JaneyVee Oct 2015 #17
Why are you asking me? This is your thread. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #18
Post #17 provides some good suggestions. JaneyVee Oct 2015 #22
Why should I support and defend your opinion? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #24
So your opinion is nothing should have been done, or JaneyVee Oct 2015 #33
Did I give my opinion? Perhaps you could point out which post that was. Tia! beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #34
Ok so no opinion. Fair enough. JaneyVee Oct 2015 #38
Did I say I had no opinion? How about you stop trying to tell me what I think? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #49
Bernie is a fighter who will use the bully pulpit... JaneyVee Oct 2015 #56
Really? Do go on. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #58
I believe the OP is a misguided economist, not a political science major. Uncle Joe Oct 2015 #4
Too soon for insults. Please wait at least 15 more posts. JaneyVee Oct 2015 #6
You didn't wait for 15 posts, the OP was a disingenuous insult. n/t Uncle Joe Oct 2015 #7
Oh god really? JaneyVee Oct 2015 #15
No, you posted two "links" with no context either from a policy or political point of view Uncle Joe Oct 2015 #19
Ok sorry I "insulted" Senator Bernie Sanders. JaneyVee Oct 2015 #25
Apology accepted. Uncle Joe Oct 2015 #28
This isn't the first time this tactic has been tried. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #10
It would at least have some redeeming quality if they also post most relevant paragraphs instead of Uncle Joe Oct 2015 #13
Maybe they just don't know any better? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #16
This is EXACTLY my point. He's so popular yet.... JaneyVee Oct 2015 #52
Oh, was that your point? I thought it was that he should have done more. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #53
He should have used that bully pulpit I hear so much about. JaneyVee Oct 2015 #57
What have you heard about it? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #59
So we want someone who supports private prisons & won't fight for single payer? think Oct 2015 #8
I don't think your question is going to get an answer Doctor_J Oct 2015 #32
Were you trying to make a point? If so, you failed. Live and Learn Oct 2015 #11
You think Bernie Sanders is the governor of Vermont? That's so adorable! Scootaloo Oct 2015 #12
It's funny how the typical responses on DU are to... JaneyVee Oct 2015 #20
Well, look at what you "provided" Scootaloo Oct 2015 #29
I'm not trying to pin him for any of it. JaneyVee Oct 2015 #36
Yes, you are very obviously trying to give him the responsibility. Scootaloo Oct 2015 #45
I just specifically said that is not what I'm doing. JaneyVee Oct 2015 #48
You can say whatever you like. What you're actually doing is pretty obvious, though. Scootaloo Oct 2015 #50
Ok, good talk. JaneyVee Oct 2015 #55
Two unquoted links and a snarky phrase is "providing substance"? arcane1 Oct 2015 #30
This message was self-deleted by its author postatomic Oct 2015 #14
I see what happened. You don't know about the separation of state and federal government. DisgustipatedinCA Oct 2015 #21
See post 20. JaneyVee Oct 2015 #26
I saw it, and what of it? Looks like you still need some Schoolhouse Rock. DisgustipatedinCA Oct 2015 #31
That must have been before he became a Democrat. ucrdem Oct 2015 #23
See post 21! beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #27
Right, he's just an ordinary U.S. Senator from Burlington ucrdem Oct 2015 #35
No the idea is what should he as a senator have done about it! beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #37
Write an angry open letter to the President about the TPP perhaps? ucrdem Oct 2015 #39
Oh dear. You think the op is about the TPP? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #40
You'd do better sending it to your senator. nt ucrdem Oct 2015 #41
What are you on about? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #43
You don't even know what you're trying to achieve at this point, do you? Scootaloo Oct 2015 #47
... hifiguy Oct 2015 #42
See post 20. JaneyVee Oct 2015 #44
You have been suitably and thoroughly rebutted in this thread. hifiguy Oct 2015 #46
Which post? So far I haven't received a single opinion other than... JaneyVee Oct 2015 #51
I will offer an opinion artislife Oct 2015 #54
Post #20 did nothing for me. 840high Oct 2015 #60
I understand your post, and will give you the benefit of the doubt that it's not trolling. thesquanderer Oct 2015 #61

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
3. So you don't know but it still wasn't good enough.
Sun Oct 11, 2015, 04:50 PM
Oct 2015

I will give your unbiased flatlander's opinion about what Senator Sanders should have done in my home state all of the serious consideration it deserves.


 

JaneyVee

(19,877 posts)
17. Do you think anything should have been done?
Sun Oct 11, 2015, 05:12 PM
Oct 2015

I'm actually posing this question because perhaps someone can offer info as to something that actually was done. A letter to the governor? An editorial op ed in local news? A speech to state legislators?

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
18. Why are you asking me? This is your thread.
Sun Oct 11, 2015, 05:14 PM
Oct 2015

You said he didn't do enough, what should the senator have done?

 

JaneyVee

(19,877 posts)
22. Post #17 provides some good suggestions.
Sun Oct 11, 2015, 05:24 PM
Oct 2015

And since I don't follow Vermont politics, and since you probably do being you're from there, perhaps you can provide some additional info as to what if any actions were taken?

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
24. Why should I support and defend your opinion?
Sun Oct 11, 2015, 05:28 PM
Oct 2015

Honestly I think exploiting the issues your candidate is weakest on is a bad move but please proceed.

This is fascinating.

 

JaneyVee

(19,877 posts)
33. So your opinion is nothing should have been done, or
Sun Oct 11, 2015, 05:36 PM
Oct 2015

Nothing could have been done, or no opinion either way?

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
49. Did I say I had no opinion? How about you stop trying to tell me what I think?
Sun Oct 11, 2015, 06:03 PM
Oct 2015

You should concentrate on trying to dig your way out of this op.

Uncle Joe

(58,364 posts)
4. I believe the OP is a misguided economist, not a political science major.
Sun Oct 11, 2015, 04:51 PM
Oct 2015

State government vs federal government can be confusing for many.

Uncle Joe

(58,364 posts)
19. No, you posted two "links" with no context either from a policy or political point of view
Sun Oct 11, 2015, 05:18 PM
Oct 2015

about Bernie's home state running counter to his position on those two issues.

Then you posted this as a form of sarcastic attack against Bernie.

"A fighter who will use the bully pulpit. #FeelTheBern"



 

JaneyVee

(19,877 posts)
25. Ok sorry I "insulted" Senator Bernie Sanders.
Sun Oct 11, 2015, 05:28 PM
Oct 2015

Please accept my apology for such an insulting op.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
10. This isn't the first time this tactic has been tried.
Sun Oct 11, 2015, 04:58 PM
Oct 2015

If only they would look at their candidate's position first they'd realize how absurd it is.


Uncle Joe

(58,364 posts)
13. It would at least have some redeeming quality if they also post most relevant paragraphs instead of
Sun Oct 11, 2015, 05:06 PM
Oct 2015

just placing links and ad hominem attacks.

Such as



The sense of betrayal from single-payers’ most passionate advocates after Shumlin’s announcement was palpable, particularly as he had tied his own political persona to the idea. “It is time to put the interests of patients first, ahead of political expedience,” said Andrew Coates, president of Physicians for a National Health Care Program. Single-payer is “the only reform that will cover everyone, save lives and save money. Mr. Shumlin, of all our nation’s governors, knows this well.”

Vermont’s public failure is especially frustrating to single-payer advocates because, they note, the Shumlin framework, which had gotten approval of the state legislature minus that key financing element, wasn’t really a true single-payer plan. Notably, large businesses that operate in multiple states would have been exempt. And it was unclear whether or how enrollees in federal plans like Medicare and TRICARE could be integrated into the state’s plan.

Those exemptions cut into the funding base while adding administrative complexity, eliminating one of the potential cost-saving elements of single-payer: simplicity.

“There are some practical problems in the idea of state-based policy,” Coates said, acknowledging the huge federal role in financing and regulating health care.



Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/12/single-payer-vermont-113711#ixzz3oIO9WmEt

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
16. Maybe they just don't know any better?
Sun Oct 11, 2015, 05:10 PM
Oct 2015

There's a reason why Vermonters hate Shumlin and love Bernie but only a person who really wanted to learn about Vermont politics instead of dabbling and playing Palin style gotcha games would understand.

Thanks for the context but I fear it will be wasted on the op.


 

JaneyVee

(19,877 posts)
52. This is EXACTLY my point. He's so popular yet....
Sun Oct 11, 2015, 06:07 PM
Oct 2015

Has he used his popularity to do anything about these issues?

 

JaneyVee

(19,877 posts)
57. He should have used that bully pulpit I hear so much about.
Sun Oct 11, 2015, 06:51 PM
Oct 2015

At least an op-ed in Vermont newspapers. Anything?

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
32. I don't think your question is going to get an answer
Sun Oct 11, 2015, 05:36 PM
Oct 2015

The hillarians fling poop, not answer questions

Live and Learn

(12,769 posts)
11. Were you trying to make a point? If so, you failed.
Sun Oct 11, 2015, 04:58 PM
Oct 2015

These had nothing to do with Bernie and he is right in his determination to do so across the US.

 

JaneyVee

(19,877 posts)
20. It's funny how the typical responses on DU are to...
Sun Oct 11, 2015, 05:21 PM
Oct 2015

Question someone's intellect while providing nothing of substance. Like the posters above who think I'm a "misguided economist" who is confused about how govt works.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
29. Well, look at what you "provided"
Sun Oct 11, 2015, 05:30 PM
Oct 2015

Bernie Sanders is a US senator for the state of Vermont. However you are trying to pin to him issues pertaining to the executive offices within that state - the Governor and Attorney general, respectively (or, since the AG answers to the governor, just the Governor) This is missing of course that Sanders has no say in what happens at that level, in that branch. It's the same thign as if you had tried to hold Barack Obama responsible for something the mayor of Chicago did or did not do.

Anyone with even a basic grasp of civics wound understand that this is an outright farcical argument.

You are not providing anything of substance. You are presenting a very silly non-point that deserves all the mockery it's getting. Sorry JaneyVee, but you bring it on yourself.

 

JaneyVee

(19,877 posts)
36. I'm not trying to pin him for any of it.
Sun Oct 11, 2015, 05:39 PM
Oct 2015

My question above was: What, if any, actions has he taken to stand up and fight for or against these in his home state? I don't follow Vermont politics and perhaps there were actions taken on Bernie's behalf.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
45. Yes, you are very obviously trying to give him the responsibility.
Sun Oct 11, 2015, 05:56 PM
Oct 2015

And it's silly as all get-out.

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
30. Two unquoted links and a snarky phrase is "providing substance"?
Sun Oct 11, 2015, 05:31 PM
Oct 2015


You're expecting more from responders than you yourself are willing to offer.

Response to JaneyVee (Original post)

 

DisgustipatedinCA

(12,530 posts)
21. I see what happened. You don't know about the separation of state and federal government.
Sun Oct 11, 2015, 05:23 PM
Oct 2015

That's not a problem at all, and I'm glad you reached out, because there's help. This will get you started:

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="

" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
35. Right, he's just an ordinary U.S. Senator from Burlington
Sun Oct 11, 2015, 05:38 PM
Oct 2015

who wants to become an ordinary U.S. President. Is that the idea?

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
37. No the idea is what should he as a senator have done about it!
Sun Oct 11, 2015, 05:39 PM
Oct 2015

Perhaps you can enlighten us since the op is struggling.


ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
39. Write an angry open letter to the President about the TPP perhaps?
Sun Oct 11, 2015, 05:42 PM
Oct 2015

Run for president in a party he's never been a member of? Am I getting warmer?

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
43. What are you on about?
Sun Oct 11, 2015, 05:48 PM
Oct 2015

And why would my Senator need to learn the difference between the branches?

Are you implying that you're more knowledgeable about government because Bernie opposed the TPP and you didn't?


 

JaneyVee

(19,877 posts)
51. Which post? So far I haven't received a single opinion other than...
Sun Oct 11, 2015, 06:04 PM
Oct 2015

Me being confused about how govt works. Even though my op says "bully pulpit". Anything?

 

artislife

(9,497 posts)
54. I will offer an opinion
Sun Oct 11, 2015, 06:36 PM
Oct 2015

The first link is why single payer failed in Vermont written in 2014. This is my opinion, but when President Obama settled for the ACA, it was with the idea that it would be a stepping stone to single payer down the line. 2014 wasn't down the line enough.

I think as we approach open enrollment on the ACA for the 3rd time, people are starting to realize how bigger companies have an unfair advantage in attracting and keeping the best qualified workers. They alone can afford to offer the best medical benefit packages to their workers. Now that small businesses must offer medical, they see how not being able to pool the workforce nationwide but only with their small numbers is really very costly. I always thought it was one way the larger corporations had a steady stream of indentured servants. Someone in the family needed that job so the family could be covered for a price they could afford, allowing the other spouse to have the more fun job with no benefits.

So people, small business and others are getting pissed at insurance companies who are dropping policies, moving out of state etc. What should be starting to become obvious that the problem isn't that everyone needs to be insured, is that the insurance companies make their own rules and regulations. They are the ones manipulating the costs and the benefit packages. They are the truly evil entities. This should lead people to the idea that if we had single payer, there would be no in or out of network bs, no silver level v gold level (sure there would still probably be medical insurance you could buy for add ons like elective plastic surgery etc)

So while in 2014, Vermont failed, I would say that if in the next few years it or any other state were to try, there would be far more people on board.

thesquanderer

(11,989 posts)
61. I understand your post, and will give you the benefit of the doubt that it's not trolling.
Sun Oct 11, 2015, 08:21 PM
Oct 2015

So then I think the answer to your question is that a President has a huge bully pulpit. A senator, no. The nearest equivalent pulpit for a state is not a senator, but the governor. And remember even in terms of being a senator, BS was not a State Senator (i.e. one that would have some political relationship to the governor or state laws), but rather a U.S. Senator. As a rule, U.S. Senators don't tend to get involved in state politics.

Though when it comes to single payer, a quick google search did turn up that, at the time, BS was trying to win support for a federal version of what Vermont was trying to do on the state level (the federal level being, well, where his job was, and the place where his pulpit--small as it might be--actually was).

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/may/10/healthcare-congress (from 2011)

And there's this:

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/must-read/a-single-payer-system-makes-economic-sense (from 2013)

I think it's safe to say that Bernie Sanders' support for single payer was probably well known in Vermont.

And, btw, according to the article you linked to it, Vermont's governor was indeed bully-pulpit pushing for it... in fact, he actually almost got it implemented, but ultimately wasn't able to get the economics of it to work and had to abandon it. There's nothing BS could have done to help unless he had come up with a way to finance it. Which, come to think of it, is, in a sense, was what he was trying to do, by laying groundwork to ultimately try to get it implemented on a federal level.

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