2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumCNN Shuts Down Bernie2016TV!! Because They Aired Raw Video Of The Debate!! CNN Censored Them!
Last edited Thu Oct 15, 2015, 03:31 PM - Edit history (1)
Second Time A Big Media Corporation Tried to Silence Bernie's Channel. This is outrageous!
John Ellis is more angry, and rightfully so, than I have EVER seen him.
Here he explains what happened!
src="
Now we know for sure that Bernie Won This Debate.
They are deleting their own polls. Trying to hide any evidence that BERNIE WON THE DEBATE!
Every Focus Group....
Every Statistic now available....
37,600 Individual Donations DURING the Debate to Bernie....
50,000 New Twitter Followers DURING the Debate....
Bernie the MOST SEARCHED on Google DURING the Debate....
All this and MORE says 'BERNIE SANDERS WON THAT DEBATE'
Now they KNOW people are outraged at their decision to ignore the facts.
But they can't control Social Media. YET!
So they SHUT DOWN Bernie2016TV because they can.
And this will only ensure that people see the manipulation and attempt to control the message.
We have a RIGHT to see the footage of all Political Debates.
Not the Censored Version Corporations want us to see!
THIS IS A DEMOCRACY!
Outrageous!
And hey, Corporate Media!
BERNIE SANDERS WON THAT DEBATE BY A LANDSLIDE!!
Adding this as it sums up who WON THE DEBATE:
to MadFloridian for finding it!
msongs
(67,453 posts)artislife
(9,497 posts)I find that disturbing.
frylock
(34,825 posts)for the last 25 years. You can say that they have "evolved".
artislife
(9,497 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)nt
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)And some of these people have the nerve to tell me I'll need to close ranks with them if and when Clinton gets the nomination. I haven't forgotten. I won't forget.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)hehe chuckle so funnyyyyyyy
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)passed legislation allowing a few Corporations to buy the people's airwaves.
Btw, do you even read before you post?
First, this channel is run by private citizens and has nothing to do with Bernie other than they are supporters who knew the media would not cover him as they should, and used their skills to do so themselves.
So what do you mean 'Bernie can start his own'?? Apparently not, he would be shut down just like these guys have been by Huge Corporations who have chosen the candidate they know they can trust.
brooklynite
(94,745 posts)TrumanTown
(15 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)...familiar with Federal Campaign Finance law:
$0
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)....of that "$500,000"?
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)Time Warner
$501,831
$476,831
$25,000
And yes, it says "individuals." And yes, I used to work in a top 50 multinational and yes, we were pressured to make specfic donations. I even have a memory of my last manager screeching at me the specific dollar amount I was to donate.
George II
(67,782 posts)If what you say happened, you should have reported them to the FEC.
I can't believe that of the $476,000 in contributions not a single person allegedly "pressured" to contribute didn't report the pressure to the FEC. Not a single disgruntled employee.
BTW, over my career I worked for three companies in the Fortune 100, including the Bank of New York (NO, not a "bankster", Rhett accused me of that a few weeks ago - I worked in their IT department) and never had pressure of any kind. My father was an IT executive for them and Citicorp - again, ZERO pressure.
Unless there is any evidence of pervasive "pressure", it's only a story with no legs. Sorry, sounds good but highly unlikely.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Sen Sanders' campaign is being funded by the people and Clinton's is funded by the billionaires. So I guess you side with the oligarchy. Too hard to actually fight to solve poverty, just ignore it.
A Goldman-Sachs Admin will put corp profits over eliminating poverty. Whose side are you on in the class war?
George II
(67,782 posts)....."$31 donations"!
So one out of every 300 men, women, and children in the US has contributed to his campaign?
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Sen Sanders if for the People and HRC is for Goldman-Sachs, and Time-Warner, etc. Do you honestly believe they will want her to cut into their profits to reduce poverty? Not on your life. 50 million people living in poverty and you want to continue the corporate run status quo.
George II
(67,782 posts)....Hillary Clinton will be the Presidential nominee for the Democratic Party and most likely will win the general election in November 2016 and succeed our first black President as our first woman President.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)into the WH. Too bad for the people living in poverty. Goldman-Sachs doesn't give a crap about them.
Why would Democrats support the 1%? Do you hope they will like you?
George II
(67,782 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)....oh, you also occasionally make incorrect assumtions about me, too.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)RandySF
(59,276 posts)When did cable TV become art of the airwaves?
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)out!
Elections cannot be PRIVATIZED in a DEMOCRACY. Now either they HAVE BEEN, meaning the people did not know this and we not a Democracy, because you can't privatize elections in a democracy, OR John Ellis and all of us, have a legal case against CNN
There are a few remarkably disturbing comments in this thread, just a few thankfully, indicating that OWNING Political Debates giving the right to Corporations to obstruct the Democratic Progress, is just fine.
I thought I could not be shocked anymore! But that is pretty shockiing on a political forum, Dem or any other.
George II
(67,782 posts)cprise
(8,445 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)...internet access could not participate, are acceptable to many here?
So you're implying that people who can't afford cable television have the resources to watch the debate on Youtube?
By the way, in 2010 91% of all homes in the United States have either cable or satellite television, probably even higher here in 2015. That significantly cuts down on those who didn't have live access to the debate OR the immediate rerun of the debate within an hour after it ended.
cprise
(8,445 posts)What does reaching poor voters and cord-cutters have to do with it, when there are people like me out there who have access to both cable and Internet?
Does it disturb you that even more people might approve of Bernie's performance?
If there is any implication, it would be that the parties and the media are curbing the poor and cord-cutter demographics' exposure to obscure candidates (like Bernie and O'Malley) who will fight for them.
Another post said 7% of the population relies on broadcast. That's millions of people.
George II
(67,782 posts)...could it be that they couldn't see the live or rerun on CNN but could see the streaming rerun of the debate? Simple question.
cprise
(8,445 posts)and these TV threads have been veering toward larger problems with access.
But to answer your question, cutting off streaming compounds the access problem.
Its also possible that the poor are simply being damned (after all, some networks have started following vagrants around in a disapproving manner). Meanwhile, Dem establishment's messaging is about the middle class.
George II
(67,782 posts)....what medium would they use to watch the debate on Youtube? Simple question.
The debate was public, it wasn't conducted in a basement somewhere. It was "broadcast" (use whatever word you want) live with I believe only two short commercial breaks. It was then rerun at 11PM (eastern).
cprise
(8,445 posts)...about progressive candidates (and ideas) reaching as many voters as possible?
If so, you should accept the answer I gave. Furthermore, people I know have Internet but no cable in order to save money. So that is relevant to the point being made as well.
The best way to "broadcast" public debates is to use both broadcast TV (airwaves not cable) and free Internet streaming.
The worst way is to place the debate in the walled-garden of paid access such as cable.
George II
(67,782 posts)cprise
(8,445 posts)And you have your answer, sir.
Have a nice day.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)74% did NOT see debate. So the online polls were far more scientific.
Bernie won, there is no doubt about it, Only the Corp media says otherwise.
brooklynite
(94,745 posts)L0oniX
(31,493 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)...allowing a few Corporations to buy the people's airwaves." ?
If you're referring to the Telecommunications Act of 1996, it wasn't passed by President Clinton it was passed by Congress. Clinton only signed it into law.
The Senate passed it 81-18 (1 No Vote) - 51 Republicans and 30 Democrats voted Aye, 2 Republicans and 16 Democrats voted Nay.
The House passed a similar bill by a vote of 305-117 (12 No Vote) - 208 Republicans and 97 Democrats voted Aye, 18 Republicans and 98 Democrats voted Nay.
The conference bill was passed without a vote in either house.
Hardly a bill that Democrats or the President were supportive of. Yes, Clinton signed it because the votes in both houses were veto-proof.
So you're asserting that way back in 1996 (19 years ago) President Clinton conspired with the Republicans to change the existing Telecomunications laws just in case some day his wife would run for President and there might be a need for a network to prevent another outlet from broadcasting what they broadcast live?
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)so many Democratic votes.
The Telecommunications Act is just one of a number of really bad bills that Bill Clinton signed.
I will not vote for Hilary because of her support of this kind of corporate dominance of our political culture and because of her wrong vote on Iraq and lack of judgment on so many issues and in so many situations.
George II
(67,782 posts)sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)She was a private citizen at the time, but her husband was President of the United States. I don't recall her ever suggesting it was a bad idea. Do you?
riversedge
(70,311 posts)--a bill Bernie wants.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)nt
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)count her time in the White House.
That is not much experience. Her voting record is good, but she made serious mistakes in that short time.
Hillary either counts the White House years and takes responsibility for Bill Clinton's actions that harmed our country including but not limited to the signing and passage of the Telecommunications Act or she admits to having relatively little experience in politics.
I am very concerned at the news that CNN has shut down BernieTV over a copyright dispute.
I am concerned that CNN has edited the debate video and refuses to allow the transmission of the unedited version.
That seems to me to be a curtailment of freedom of speech.
I am concerned that Comcast which is the owner of CNN and whose employees are big Hillary supporters is editing that video.
Comcast has an interest and has expressed its opposition to our current internet policy if I am not mistaken and also has wanted other government favors such as mergers and consolidations of the media.
That Comcast supports Hillary causes me to question what side she is on when it comes to the regulation of telecommunications and the internet.
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)Let's be honest. She's a lawyer first and foremost and a very sharp one at that.
Thespian2
(2,741 posts)impossible to argue with those who support the 1%er...
sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)for that matter or any other legislation. Presidents don't pass legislation. Of course, you know that. As for the telecom bill of 1996, Clinton opposed it? He only signed it because it was veto proof? You're kidding. Right?
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=52289
It's unlikely a deal was struck to make Hillary president until she agreed to concede the primary in 2008 and was handed the job at State as a consolation prize.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)Perhaps some people could ask why CNN doesn't want the debate rebroadcast? Or they could ask CNN to allow rebroadcast or something. There should be a reasonable solution to this disagreement.
George II
(67,782 posts)...available on live streaming. In fact a record setting number of people watched it streaming:
http://money.cnn.com/2015/09/16/media/cnn-debate-live-streaming/
There's only one person in the US complaining about it being censored and edited, the person in the OP video.
When CNN and Facebook went to all the expense of the logistics of the debate and set aside 2+ prime time hours to broadcast it, why would they allow anyone to stream it?
Other than the NFL channel, when have Super Bowls been rebroadcast or streamed live?
stone space
(6,498 posts)Our Democracy is owned by The People.
This is a Theft of Democracy.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)It makes everything you say come out in gibberish.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)On Thu Oct 15, 2015, 09:06 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
I'm sorry you shouldn't talk with Wall Street in your mouth
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=687229
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Unprovoked personal attack. George provides a link for those interested in watching the debate, and this poster makes a gratuitous insult about "Wall street being in his mouth." In addition to rude, it's nonsensical. Copyright law has nothing to do with Wall Street. Insulting anyone who disagrees or provides alternative information is getting really old and makes DU suck.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Oct 15, 2015, 09:20 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Tough call - I rarely vote to hide - but I would really think that this is more of an attack on the poster rather than the information. If you can refute the claim, do that instead. Whether the post gets hidden or stands, I encourage poster to try a different approach. Is it wrong? Prove it.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Oh bother, I thought it was humorous and quite mild for DU.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)Do you have a link for it? I looked around for it unsuccessfully on CNN. They have only specific pieces of the debate on their website.
George II
(67,782 posts)...was the Kennedy/Nixon debate available a day or two after it happened?
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)CNN wants us to see. I have been able to watch debates in their entirety on C-Span and other channels in previous years long after they took place. Kennedy/Nixon debate? Yeah, right...I'll have to check with DARPA on that. Hmm...Nope too early even for them.
Hey this is my 5000th post!!! Wish it could have been on a democracy-affirming post.
ThoughtCriminal
(14,049 posts)I threw away my 10k post on something like this - and I was making grand plans for a profound statement on what DU means to me.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)Fla Dem
(23,765 posts)If you don't trust CNN, here irt is on you tube.
I'm still not sure what part of the debate the OP claims has been edited out. The whole dialogue involving Bernie's comments about the media obsessing over Clinton's emails starts at about 55:37.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)That's a joke right?
It was 1960. The 1st ever televised Prez debate. They weren't even in color either. They may have been available after they rewound the tape.
I think maybe Prez debates and technology have changed just a little bit.
Pitiful desperation? Or was it a joke?
So why wouldn't the debate in its entirety be available? Leave the stupid commercials in if they want to.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)advocating for the corporate-controlled media conglomerates.
All Democrats used to understand how blatant their tactics were. How corrupt they are. How their tainted money poisons our political process.
Now, Democrats, such as yourself are forced stand loyal with the corporate-controlled media--because your candidate of choice is firmly aligned and financially supported by these corporations.
Pathetic and sad.
What's next, Hillary Democrats bashing bash their fellow Democrats who oppose prolonged war in the Middle East? Hillary Democrats advocating for the companies who profit from war?
Talk about selling your soul.
demwing
(16,916 posts)what the hell is wrong with this world
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Now transplant the maturity and level of discourse to DU.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)Might not want your pure ignorance about this left on public display.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Now CNN is keeping them from showing live events until April 2016
SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)stone space
(6,498 posts)billhicks76
(5,082 posts)I would feel like a complete fool by now. Practically no better than a Republican regardless of how rabid their latest strain of conservatism is. You must have no conscience and no ability left to critically think if you support someone who has to resort to lies and censorship to seduce someone into supporting them.
haikugal
(6,476 posts)I hope he gets the help he needs. Outrageous!
Thanks for posting..it can't be posted too often in my view.
Cosmic Kitten
(3,498 posts)Go Bernie!
Bernie2016TV!
artislife
(9,497 posts)Cosmic Kitten
(3,498 posts)artislife
(9,497 posts)But there used to be a great site called Television Without Pity. It was hilarious and as big as this site with thousands of threads and years of posting.
It was bought out by Bravo.
Then a few years down the road they shut it down.
Then they took it down.
It remains in the minds of the posters who loved it...but it all but disappeared.
Memory erase.
I remember when Joan Rivers was asked about Israel and Palestine and she basically said eff the Palestine children. It was awful and then...days later she died. That video couldn't be found in my search for a couple of months after that. Scrubbed.
The more I reflect on 1984, the more it seems to have come true
seaglass
(8,173 posts)Cosmic Kitten
(3,498 posts)BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)What a despicable person she was.
questionseverything
(9,661 posts)that made it look like bernie was attacking hc when he was defending her...the 1% are desperate to stop his message from getting out
so what does the dnc say about this? with only 6 debates ,are they all controlled by freaking corporations?
is the dnc now the official pay to play (or hear) party?
Cosmic Kitten
(3,498 posts)The DNC is certainly aligned
with mass media interests.
The both want fewer voters and
more control over the narrative
to massage the illusion of Democracy
appalachiablue
(41,177 posts)and that was very important. This is all very concerning, seems undemocratic and like censorship. The original public debate may be edited by CNN; this doesn't seem right or permissible in a democracy.
questionseverything
(9,661 posts)we the people have a right to the information we need to make a serious choice....the dnc has already stifled debate for months and by giving cnn control over the only one we have had so far they are further censoring the candidates message
questionseverything
(9,661 posts)makes it look like bernie is attacking her instead of defending her
basically we have been breitbarted by cnn
appalachiablue
(41,177 posts)and older footage of figures like Ted Kennedy and FDR from the 1930s on YouTube. It's unlawful to me. What manipulators like in the Soviet Union when certain photos and histories were altered to erase people, scenes and events. How ironic, speaking of 'red baiting and commies' theses days.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)"We have a RIGHT to see the footage of all Political Debates."
You have no more right to re-broadcast the recorded program than you do an episode of Game of Thrones or any other television program.
And, no, copying and providing the entire thing does not fall into any affirmative defense of "fair use".
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)that affects their lives and future, such as ELECTIONS. But I know, Bill Clinton made it possible which in itself was against all principles of Democracy, for a few Corporations to buy up the People's Airwaves.
I don't know the law, I'm sure those corrupt Corps made sure there was nothing to protect the rights of the people in their agreements.
John Ellis is not the only one who is super angry over this obvious attempt to silence THE PEOPLE and to control the message.
He will get the help he needs.
Unfortunately for these Corrupt Corporations, the last time they tried to shut him down, they helped him get more viewers and supporters than he would ever have had had they not tried to silence him.
People don't like this. It's a top issue in this campaign, the CONTROL Corps have on our system.
THIS is not going to help CNN control the message, which they are doing even without this censorship.
Ellis doesn't know the law. Maybe it's a good time to find out just how MUCH we were sold down the river by our so-called Representatives.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)You got that part right.
Metric System
(6,048 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)about.
But I intend to find out.
Everything related to our Democratic system of such as public debates, should be in the Public Domain. And if you don't know why that is, I can't or don't really care to help you.
I know this, the issue of corporate control of our government is a #1 issue for a majority of Americans in this election.
And THIS epitomizes why that is.
I will make sure to tell everyone I know about this.
zeemike
(18,998 posts)Or just telling us that is how it is and we should just accept the reality of it.
And when you hear that on a site called Democratic Underground you know just how far down the rabbit hole we have come.
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)where all the aggrieved can swarm and Jane Goodallize it to show them?
hedda_foil
(16,375 posts)cosmicone
(11,014 posts)btw .. I love your signature line -- where did you get that revolution image?
hedda_foil
(16,375 posts)I think the issue here is why did the DNC apparently give all the rights to CNN?
questionseverything
(9,661 posts)why would the dnc give the rights to a democratic debate to a corporation that will not allow it to be shared?
senz
(11,945 posts)Something's rotten in the state of American democracy.
hedda_foil
(16,375 posts)The party's attorneys aren't likely to be sloppy in negotiating contract terms.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)AS Bernie said, 'the people have the power to change things if they are united. We ARE. CNN forced to re air Debate. I will be taping it like milliions of others.
That shows how when the people rise up and make themselves heard, they have way more power than the Corporations who THOUGHT they had so much control.
Doesn't feel bad to be on the wrong side of this? They really had NO IDEA how ANGRY the people were. Now they know.
Of course no one trusts them. They are disgraced thoroughly.
Bernie won that debate, according to all stats and the PEOPLE know it. So does CNN and the Corps are scared to death.
George II
(67,782 posts)....censorship.
I'll repeat my question posed earlier - why aren't the Sanders, O'Malley, Chafee, or Webb campaigns complaining about this?
Basically its a non-story.
senz
(11,945 posts)Sometimes one needs to examine one's own motives, George II.
George II
(67,782 posts)Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #19)
Sheepshank This message was self-deleted by its author.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)....and then following up with admitting you don't know about law and then this statement:
You must admit, that there is pretty funny
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Democratic Electoral system to Giant Corporations?
My question is, show me the law that was passed that GAVE AWAY the rights of the American people to their ownership of our Democratic System of elections?
Post it please, I was unaware that our Electoral System has been PRIVATIZED by a law! What LAW can sell our Public Right to Campaign Debates, which I understood to be in the PUBLIC DOMAIN.
Not in the hands of Corrupt Corporations, who can MANIPULATE THEM as I see they ARE doing already, into PROPAGANDA to ensure THEIR choices of candidates gain power in order to represent THEIR INTERESTS!!
And then deny the PUBLIC the right to see the entire footage in order to see how they are LYING.
You must have known about this when did it happen? Who voted to sell our rights to have electoral material IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN.
Now I remember something. THIS must be why the League of Women Voters opted out of this RIGGED SYSTEM.
Yes, they stated they could not participate in it anymore.
I intend to go do some research on this.
It is simply SHOCKING to think that our entire Electoral System, our debates, part of that system are now OWNED by Private Corps and can be Propagandized for their interests, without the public having the right to see it ALL.
You appear to be fine with this. Unbelievable.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)I value contractual agreements. Rule of law must be applied equally since it's a serious protection for all of us.
If you or Bernie or anyone doesn't like the terms of the contract, they should change the terms, not sign the contract or accept it as written. Pissing and moaning about it after the fact is a losing venture.
It's what you are expecting Bernie to do...disregard the rule of law because his followers were too stupid to follow the law.
Fact remains, that you have all of those silly quotes......you never answered my question! instead you attempted to deflect with some mis mash of manufactured outrage.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)We have learned something many of us did not know.
THEY SOLD OUR DEMOCRATIC ELECTORAL PROCESS!
Outrageous!
Contracts are for Businesses.
When did our Democracy go up for SALE? Can you help us with this?
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)What a strange leap you are attempting.. If anything, honoring a contractual agreement protects democracy.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)other private entity the copyright to the debates.
The debate material should not be subject to copyright. It should be free to everyone.
This is a mistake on the part of the DNC.
I fully respect the fact that normal programming is copyrighted.
But these political debates should belong to the people.
CNN should respect that.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)But what you have said, isn't what has been said upthread. You have a grasp of the actual problem.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)regular TV programming that is copyrightable but rather a type of political speech that should be provided for transmission by all.
I know that is a new idea, but it seems to me that no one should be able to claim to own the copyright to a national political debate of this importance.
Imagine the Lincoln/Douglas debates having been subject to copyright. It's sort of like saying that the Declaration of Independence or the election results themselves could be subject to copyright. It's bad enough that the codes for the voting machines are private property. I strongly disapprove of that.
No one should own a piece of the democratic process. It turns my stomach to even think of that.
As I said, I fully understand and respect the copyrighting of other TV shows and creative work of all kinds.
But the debates are not the creative work of the networks or cable companies. They are a public service and should be given to the public.
CNN should show the understanding to allow Bernie TV to show the unedited video.
It would be a smart public relations move for CNN to allow free dissemination of the debates.
It's rather foolish to invoke copyright in this situation. Makes CNN look really bad.
Sometimes legal right is not worth enforcing. Sometimes it is better to be generous and let others have what they want. This is such a case for CNN.
If they are chintzy and narrow-minded on this, it will be all over the net by the end of next week, and CNN will lose more than it is gaining by claiming its copyright.
The debates belong to all of us - as did the Lincoln/Douglas debates. It's an American tradition even if it has been disregarded in recent years.
And I think there is a free speech issue there somewhere.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)Doesn't make it more palatable when there is the feeling that such words should be public. Above all else CNN is a business and making $ is tantamount. While the debate material makes them money they will stick with the provisions of the contractual agreement, ill advised as that may be.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Sheepshank
(12,504 posts).....although I've heard they have an exclusivity provision regarding sanctioned debates.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)This debate should have aired on PBS and immediately been released to the public domain.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts).....made when negotiating contracts.
The fault here is the release of information that was not their property to begin with.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)No private organization should have exclusive rights to matters that are of such public importance as these debates are.
staggerleem
(469 posts)We can talk all day long about how things "should" be, and get nowhere. I'm not saying that I "like" the situation any better than you, but the fact is that in the world of mass corporate media, elections have become the rough equivalent of sports, and election coverage is handled quite similarly to sports coverage.
When a World Series game is live on the air, ONE network has the rights to show footage of it. If another network's local newscast comes on while the game is still in progress, they can discuss the game, but cannot show highlights until the game is over. Any other display of the live game can only be made by prior arrangement in the contract (e. g., mlb.com probably has live webcasting rights, by prior arrangement.)
It's the same story with the debates. CNN INVESTED in that presentation, and they have the exclusive rights to it WHILE IT'S HAPPENING. Bernie2016.tv, assuming no prior arrangement was made with CNN, did, in fact, violate CNN's exclusive broadcast rights in this case. That may suck, but it is what it is. It's something else that falls under the whole "money in politics" rubric, and will be another entry on Bernie's "to do" list, once he's been elected.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)DNC?
questionseverything
(9,661 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)questionseverything
(9,661 posts)for the contracts
jwirr
(39,215 posts)JimDandy
(7,318 posts)such as the DNC or CNN.
questionseverything
(9,661 posts)we the people have a private entity ,the dnc, collaborating with a private corporation, cnn to decide what is asked,what we hear and who we hear it from to decide who will be the standard bearer for the party nomination of the only political party the 99% have any chance of influencing
it would not hurt to ask the dnc ,you never know, they might share in the interest of transparency....and if they will not share with the public that says something right there
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)FlatBaroque
(3,160 posts)LO fucking L
tblue
(16,350 posts)And I'm really freaked about what's happening to our fragile democracy. We are falling off a cliff but it seems like most of us don't know it or just don't want to hear it. 😱
Response to Sheepshank (Reply #260)
Post removed
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)But to state that this Bernie idiocy is like buying slaves is ridiculous in the usual manner of extremism employed by some Bernie supporters.
Do you value your mortgage agreement, your rental contract, your adoption contracts, your terms of employment and wages, union negotiated contracts? any signed document is there for the protection of both parties. Again, if the terms of an agreement are not acceptable don't sign, or change it.
demwing
(16,916 posts)That's disgusting
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)Disgusting.
demwing
(16,916 posts)Good, now you're making my point for me.
thanks!
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)For good or bad, both parties entered into it. If Bernie or his surrogate forgot to read the fine print, they are just plain stupid and should be fired.
RandySF
(59,276 posts)JohnnyRingo
(18,650 posts)The debates may be a matter of public knowledge via written transcript, and they are available, but CNN cameras and production staff are not tax funded public servants.
I might have a right to know who won the football game tonight, but I can't rebroadcast the game on the internet just because I'm a fan of one team or the other.
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)It's a private cable company. There is a difference. A large one, at that.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)CNN is does not have sole ownership of the information contained in that debate!
If the law says they do, then you and I and everyone else needs to fight against it, not defend it!
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)remember where I am.
IF somehow the Corporations were SOLD our rights to what you call correctly say is, until we are told differently, a Public Service our Democracy is ENTITLED to.
Now I WANT to know was this right SOLD to a few Corporations? Because if so, things are even worse than we already knew.
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)Last edited Thu Oct 15, 2015, 04:25 PM - Edit history (1)
Did they consider showing the debate from CNN's own website with the commercials and all?
questionseverything
(9,661 posts)it is not a true representation of what happened
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)But this should be in the Public Domain as it is part of our entire Democratic System.
But I'm seeing people here claiming it is copyrighted. How can something like that be sold to Private interests? THAT is scary, because it .means they can manipulate it, which people here are already saying they DID.
So now we have to find out how this happened. IF it happened withou the knowledge of the American people.
I'm sure you can see the possibilities and implications of a Giant Corporation OWNING something like this and the potential to use it for Propaganda and keep it from the people.
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)All CNN did was invest money in the shebang in the hopes of recovering it with ad revenue. They also provided the measly infrastructure, paltry security and event organization .. saving cash for DNC and the candidates.
For that small gesture, they get to keep the faithful from watching the debates hours after it aired for free.
Such travesty!
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)cosmicone
(11,014 posts)executed between and among the DNC and all the candidates on one side and CNN on the other side giving the rights to CNN.
If Bernie signed the contract, his followers are bound by it -- don't you think?
I trust Bernie .. he did the right thing by signing the contract. Since he is honest and a man of his word, the rights belong to CNN.
Perhaps you should write to Bernie and tell him not to sign such onerous contracts and hold his own debate to which all of his supporters will have all the rights.
senz
(11,945 posts)After all, cosmicone, we know who our masters are!
And I'm sure your candidate knows it better, even, than most of us.
All hail!
LiberalArkie
(15,729 posts)The sports organization does, it says so in the broadcast. Just because CBS or NBC or whoever broadcast the event, they do not own it. They supposedly made their money on the commercials. If DWS and the DNC did not keep the copywrite to the program, they are absolute fools.
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)and NFL/MLB/NBA pay for the event. The broadcasters only send a crew to shoot video and pay the producers and editors.
In this case, the contract was different and CNN paid all the costs so they got to own the rights.
LiberalArkie
(15,729 posts)the other groups that put on the debates in years past, did not allow the networks to keep the rights to the program. That is why you can find most of the old ones online. Like this one https://archive.org/details/1960_kennedy-nixon_1 It is about as old as you can get.
Edit to add a better kinescope:
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)The footage is available at cnn.com for anyone who wants to see it.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)It was streamed by CNN online, regardless of whether viewers had a cable subscription:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/cnn-gop-debate-free_55f031c0e4b093be51bcd6c6
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)and how this happened. Who voted for it, so we can start campaingning against them, if they are still in office.
But mostly to find out how 'legal' that 'contract' was. Who represented the American People who OWN and pay for the Airwaves.
Yes, there is a lot that will have to be exposed about all this.
This is definitely PROOF of what Bernie Sanders has said.
For his campaign, YOU cosmicone, have provided the equivalent of GOLD.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)aspirant
(3,533 posts)of the new copyright laws in the TPP?
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)You can't archive and rebroadcast a program without consent of the copyright owner.
That's the current law, and isn't going to change under any international agreement either.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)Someone should just preface the debate with some words to this effect: "Here is the debate CNN has been telling you Hillary won. Is it my lying eyes or what? I didn't see what they saw. You decide." Then play every clip with Hillary and Bernie.
Fair Use -- currently the law until TPP is passed.
TexasTowelie
(112,456 posts)I have broadband service, but I am not connected to a cable provider.
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)It was 100% FREE to watch online at CNN.com. My wife watched it on her computer. I watched it on my iPhone. Neither of us payed for anything aside from the internet service that we pay for monthly.
freebrew
(1,917 posts)it wasn't "FREE".
It was free* IF one had internet access that allowed one to watch.
The debate should have been broadcast for the PUBLIC to watch.
Not everyone is wealthy enough to afford unlimited access.
Not everyone lives where access is fast enough to stream video.
*Some of US have limits on broadband usage, video is usually forbidden in that respect.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Or maybe they simply don't like Democracy, either way, thankfully a majority of Americans DO and are outraged over the Money that is buying our Elections.
THIS is one way that money is doing this.
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)Happy?
I've been lucky that I've never had to deal with limits on broadband (only two companies in my area with broadband, and neither have limits on any of their plans, just speed caps).
senz
(11,945 posts)Those who respect and value democracy, that is.
BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)They own the videotape. Anyone who was there is certainly allowed to do transcripts in print. No one has a duty to videotape it. It gets taped, sure, because people are interested, but there is no private company that is forced to.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)I've been an intellectual property attorney for more than 15 years.
There are plenty of things wrong with the law.
However, under the law we have, and there is no ambiguity about it, CNN owns the rights in that broadcast. That they chose to allow livestreaming at the time is up to them. That they chose not to allow anyone else to continue streaming the broadcast afterwards is also up to them.
But if you are going to say I'm "wrong", then could you please point to the relevant part of 17 USC with this remarkable "presidential debate exception"?
I thank you in advance for identifying the law in question.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)Democratic Party sanctioned presidential debate should become the sole property of a corporation. That CNN owns all rights to the content of that debate is very scary and very WRONG.
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)Egnever
(21,506 posts)They agreed to the terms kind of silly to bitch about it after the fact.
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)Bernie is just amazing and ordinary laws don't apply to him nor to his supporters. Those laws were made for billionnaires, oligarchs, wall street, plutocrats and anyone who cannot see the greatness of Bernie Sanders. All such laws should be rendered null and void as soon as the big banks are broken up.
Bernie leads by example. All his books can be freely copied and distributed free of charge. If the publisher complains, Bernie will set the publisher straight.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)I was at a Bernie Sanders debate watch party in my area, but also Tivo'd the broadcast because I knew the party would be loud and hard to hear in the venue we had.
Tivo viewers didn't see Hillary's closing statement. Because of the timing, if you didn't add extra time to record, she got cut off completely from the debate as seen by everyone who watched it on Tivo.
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)Even god is on Bernie's side and media simply refuse to accept it. Such heathens!
George II
(67,782 posts)"Truly, O God of Israel, our Savior, you work in mysterious ways."
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)I received an Amber Alert text on my phone during the debate. An hour later, the Amber Alert system came on the TV screen and cut into the debate right as Bernie started to answer a question. Purposeful? Hopefully not. But why the HOUR delay between the phone alert and the TV alert? (It was interesting, though, to have that happen right after DUers had posted in a debate thread that buffering of their live stream kept happening while Bernie was talking.) Hope they found the two kids.
BTW, if you're new to Tivo, you'll learn pretty quickly to add extra time to catch the beginning and end of programs, especially live programs. Not always possible to do so though.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)this country and I can assure you, that is a MAJORITY of the American people, will fight to restore any rights that have been stolen and sold and it will be done by making sure we replace the Corporate Owned politicians who are responsible for these violations of rights
And your snark will be deflated re Bernie's Books when you learn that Bernie actually HAS donated any income from a book he could have made a lot of money, to the American people who can use it as they see fit.
He has also donated any speaking fees he has received to his favorite Children's Charity.
If you are going to attack someone, it's better to know something about them first, otherwise you run the risk of looking foolish.
He unlike most of his colleagues, has not enriched himself while serving the People.
HE is a rare person who understands that, unlike say the Clintons, being elected is not an opportunity to get rich, which they have. It is to serve the people, which he has.
So after nearly 30 years of public service, he is NOT a wealthy man.
Thanks for reminding us of just how this candidate LIVES the way he TALKS.
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)Perhaps we should cancel the elections and go straight to inauguration!!
Tomorrow, I am going to photocopy Bernie's books and start giving them away to people because certainly a socialist (sorry, democratic socialist) like Bernie wouldn't want to profit from all his work writing the books. He doesn't want to be an oligarch does he?
btw .. does Denmark have copyright laws?
BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)Egnever
(21,506 posts)That would apply equally to the law. Something you clearly care little for if it doesn't agree with your preconceived notions.
You don't like the law... Fair enough nothing wrong with not liking it, but to pretend it is invalid because you don't like it is ridiculous.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)That footage is CNNs property. Bernie's Channel can license it but they can't use it without that. As a songwriter and music publisher I agree that the Intellectual property law is grossly unfair. I found that out when my ex divorced me!
jwirr
(39,215 posts)Are we the first to learn that we do not have a right to a public debate in a political race?
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)I started voting in the 1970's.
YouTube didn't have a policy on copyright then.
You either saw shit when it was shown on TV or you read about it in the papers that were delivered that day.
NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)You can find transcripts of the debate online.
Matariki
(18,775 posts)Or shouldn't be. Political debates are part of their public service in exchange for getting their share of the airwaves.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)CNN is a cable network. What "airwaves" are you talking about?
Matariki
(18,775 posts)The debate shouldn't have been held on CNN unless CNN agreed that the content of the debate was in no way their property. Which it most certainly should not be.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Was the prominent copyright notice they aired during the broadcast itself, just to make sure that nobody would be as ignorant as the guy in the OP.
I'll go back to my TiVo recording and see if I can get a picture of it.
questionseverything
(9,661 posts)cnn had agreed to allow the debate to be restreamed then changed their minds
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)CNN livestreamed the event for free. I can't see where they allowed others to do so.
But streaming the event live for free is not the same as allowing people to make copies of it and re-broadcast it.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/cnn-gop-debate-free_55f031c0e4b093be51bcd6c6
Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)I could be wrong.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)I would have liked to have known about this provision of 17 USC when I was buying textbooks, that's for damn sure.
Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)http://teaching.colostate.edu/tips/tip.cfm?tipid=116
Quote:
Purpose and Character:
A fair use evaluation is favored when the purpose and character of the intended use can be categorized as strictly nonprofit, educational or personal. Criticism, commentary, news reporting, teaching, scholarly work and research, are all examples favoring fair use.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)No, simply copying the entire work for broadcast is not "criticism, commentary or news reporting".
If you are trying to say that all news is "news reporting", then what you are saying is that no news outlet has a protectible copyright in anything.
I've been practicing in this area for a long time, and the optimism of "I can use the whole thing as 'fair use'" is a perennial.
I do like the way you refer to "four factors", quote one, and seem to want to believe that "the amount and substantiality of the portion taken" doesn't exist.
YouTube is a commercial website. It is not some kind of charity or educational institution.
questionseverything
(9,661 posts)did you listen to it?
we are not talking about some entertainment thing here where people do have a right to profit from their work...we are talking about information the American people need to make an informed decision
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)What I was asking was whether there was some other source than his own say-so for this "permission".
What CNN did was to livestream the event free on the internet to people who were not cable subscribers. I've looked around for any indication that CNN gave carte blanche for re-broadcast.
If you find it, let me know.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Link to this permission given by CNN.
They streamed it free. They did not license it for recording and rebroadcasting. If you believe otherwise, show me where.
Here is the full transcript:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/10/13/the-oct-13-democratic-debate-who-said-what-and-what-it-means/
Here is the full audio:
http://www.mprnews.org/story/2015/10/14/mpr_news_presents
jwirr
(39,215 posts)if so you can just guess what I am thinking.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Shows how far down the damn rabbit hole of corporate ownership we have come.
ybbor
(1,555 posts)Just like the NFL? The NFL owns the rights to the footage, not the networks. Regardless who broadcast the actual game.
If they don't, then that is another reason to send that shit-for-brains DWS to the curb.
The debates should be available to the public as an informational tool.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)ybbor
(1,555 posts)Wasserman-Schultz proves,once again, she is a fucking idiot!
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)ybbor
(1,555 posts)Seeing as you know everything about it.
Good night.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)If CNN actually edited the event, then it is misrepresenting the nature of its production and presentation of the truth of the event.
It can be said that it is committing fraud on the people of the United States.
The debates, whether Republican or Democratic, should not be edited by the businesses that produce and broadcast them.
This is precisely why I will never vote for Hillary.
Because there has to be a healthy balance between the rights of the media and the right of the people to honest, truthful reporting that is unbiased and as complete as possible.
It is due to this kind of dishonesty that we got into the War in Iraq.
Our media did not present the news on the War in Iraq, the information about the WMDs, etc. honestly.
And now look at what a quagmire that dishonesty and self-censorship by the media have gotten us into.
We want to see the entire video of the entire debate without any network or media censorship.
This is morally wrong. And I think that our political rights as voters supersede corporate right to ownership.
CNN presented the debate video to voters as a full and honest representation of the debate.
It does not have the right to edit that debate just because it filmed it and happens to own the physical copy of the tape. It released the tape to Bernie's TV station and should not be able to silence that station.
There is a point at which Bernie's TV station may have a right to free speech with regard to political information like this debate that supersedes CNN's ownership and trademark rights.
The First Amendment is very powerful. I don't know whether a court would agree with me, but it seems to me that the First Amendment which Scalia ruled permitted the burning of a cross on a front lawn due to a vague law would allow Bernie's TV to continue to broadcast.
This is an issue of free speech and of misrepresentation of facts vital to voters by CNN.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)There is nothing "vague" about the law in question here. No, you can't provide a copy of someone's full broadcast of a television program without their consent.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)I only see specific video excerpts of the debate on CNN's site. I'd like to find it for someone so they can watch the whole thing.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Here is the full transcript:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/10/13/the-oct-13-democratic-debate-who-said-what-and-what-it-means/
Here is the full audio:
http://www.mprnews.org/story/2015/10/14/mpr_news_presents
This claim about a "doctored" version is bullshit. CNN is not allowing the full video to be posted in one whack to YouTube. You can find it, complete in successive installments at the YouTube link posted elsewhere on this thread.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)in its entirety, even if in chunks, then I'll look for it there. Seems odd that its not posted on CNN or anywhere else as a single video, though.
Metric System
(6,048 posts)NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)Being hit with a copyright strike for dumping 4.5 hours of someone else's content on your channel doesn't equal being shut down.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)And I don't want a "well, it is the law". That's probably the case. But we don't have to stand for it!
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)But YouTube's copyright system exists to keep it from becoming a dumping ground for pirated media.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)on PBS before cable? Have they been on CSPAN?
Why is it now being owned by a corporation if these are official, party-sanctioned (DNC) events? CNN and the DNC can go straight to hell!
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)It's not that hard, I assure you.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)questionseverything
(9,661 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)More discussion.
questionseverything
(9,661 posts)n/t
haikugal
(6,476 posts)Why 4/2016?
This is not poutrage (how insulting) it's very real concern for the workings of democracy and brings up very pertinent questions.
Cosmic Kitten
(3,498 posts)And the DNC will ONLY
allow debates they approve?
Something stinks to hell here,
and it's not copyright violation.
It's the stench of oligarchy,
and the defense of the indefensible.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)as yourself to help us to do that.
demwing
(16,916 posts)one can certainly hope...
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)away from DU.
Amazing how that near exact comment was hide worthy when directed at Bernie supporters.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)Making political commentary by excerpting a broadcast to illustrate how polls are being suppressed because they don't have the desired results is covered by the Fair Use exemption in copyright case law.
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)You just don't get the greatness of Bernie and how exceptional he is. Ordinary laws shouldn't apply to him and his followers.
BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)demwing
(16,916 posts)On noes! He can't live free, that would violate the law!
Do you understand how CONTEMPTIBLE your argument is?
NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)Because contracts were used to buy slaves?
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)The wheels have come off and they know it. I hope this guy gets in touch with the people he needs to in order to get help financially and technically to keep getting this word out. cnn needs to be brought to task on this. There's going to be a lawsuit in there somewhere for a smart lawyer who supports Bernie and free speech.
I hate to say this, but this makes me very concerned about the election. We're gonna have to have people at every polling place and we're gonna have to watch them like crazy. Because if we any of us think that they're not gonna try to twiddle with the election results or "lose" some ballots or have some kind of machine malfunction,we're out of our minds. This is all out political war. oligarchs versus everybody else. And we have an awful lot of smart people in the everybody else category. We can do this.
cpompilo
(323 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)everything.
And only proves Bernie right. We need millions and millions of people involved in order to take control AWAY from these corrupt organizations.
They may regret doing this. Because had they just left things alone, allowed the people to view what they should be able to view, not erased the people's opinions from their site, far fewer people would have known about it.
NOW it will be all over Social Media in a few hours and I'd like to know how they think this is going to help Hillary.
It only PROVES we were right. They did try to control the 'message' and they just can't.
questionseverything
(9,661 posts)it is not ct to suggest they maybe "rigged" when everything we are seeing is rigged
i knew this was going to be difficult but i had no clue they would be so brazen,so early
nolabels
(13,133 posts)and remember, the more they struggle and fight at it, the more attention they attract.
And true to form, many at this site will get to know what it's name has always been about ever since it started
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)to see what they so wanted to hide?
nolabels
(13,133 posts)Is any living thing that goes to the water hole might not get caught or seen at the watering hole the first, second or twentieth-second time, but eventually the day of reckoning comes when it happens. Being prepared for the moment is key. When the SCOTUS installed bush* the search for truth was awakened in me. I found DU and kept on coming back for last thirteen or fourteen years since.
The lies about who actually instigated WW2, who really killed JFK, and who and what was actually behind the false flag of 9/11 are just some of the interesting things i personally got to find out more about here. The great lies that hide behind them might get loosened if our time waiting at the water hole becomes the right time for all of the rest us. We don't need any real battles, just some good pictures and insights to what is really going on.
We know a lot about those men in the shadows, so really it's just a matter of time
questionseverything
(9,661 posts)this op didn't receive much support but i found it fascinating...we are taking names, finding where they live
nolabels
(13,133 posts)The tools they are, they often find themselves in places where they need other tools to get them out. I think they are going to run out that certain tool they need in the near future. Not because no one would be willing to do it but more of the idea the more complex trap one weaves the greater chance it will backfire on the maker. That gets us to the concept of Humpty-Dumpty
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)It costs our markets billions each year taking money out of the pockets of workers. You don't get to go around in life stealing what you want. I have said before I fully disagree with how the debates are handled. When I want a law or regulation changed I fight to change it. I don't simply claim I am better than everyone else and break it.
By the way, your headline is totally inaccurate(being polite).
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)The light should shine on such a dishonest headline and a thought process that goes one hundred percent against the protection of labor.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)"this nt", would you support removing all future debates on both sides of the aisle taking them out of the hands of corporations and putting them into the public sphere? They can figure out who's gonna moderate them, but these debates and their content can no longer be held hostage in the hands of corporations. Do you agree with that? because if supporters of all the candidates agree that this is a travesty of democracy, maybe we can do something before future debates.
edit...just read your recent comment...sounds like you agree that this is a pretty shitty thing for them to be doing.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I have started ops here stating just that, including one with the contents of a letter I sent to the DNC telling them the debate needs to be on air tv and there were other suggestions that would get it to more people. I think the best way to currently deal with the debates would be to bring back in the League of Women Voters. Give them complete control. There are other good way that is just an option.
As far as this op.
The headline itself is one hundred percent dishonest. Stealing information in this manner also hurts labor. The thought process the op is promoting is one hundred percent anti-labor. Truly foolish poutrage.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)I don't see how we can continue to let the rest of the debates go on under corporate control, if this is what's going to happen.
as to the op, I am normally a big proponent of protecting intellectual property, and I still am. but I guess my outrage over CNN censoring the debate is trumping my concern over the jobs of the people who work at CNN right now.
The real solution as you suggested, is getting the debates into the Public's hands or an organization we can truly trust.
brooklynite
(94,745 posts)Most were organized by local TV channels, sponsoring groups or the candidates themselves.
Remember "I am paying for this microphone"? That was a debate organized exclusively by Reagan and Bush.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)hated it then, hate it now......
edit...just want to be clear when I said I hated that line from Reagan. I did not like anybody from the media trying to censor Reagan. When I hate is that people have to pay to get the word out if they're running for office. Seems to never change, although I hope it does now.
TheKentuckian
(25,029 posts)on any trickling down.
Instead we have a multi decade all out and BIPARTISAN effort to funnel wealth and fruit of productivity from workers starting with the bogus "W.I.N." (WHIP Inflation Now) movement and fake as "free trade" and there has not been a "good guy" yet including out best post President Jimmy Carter.
SamKnause
(13,110 posts)They should not be held on cable or satellite airwaves.
We should not have to pay to see the debates.
There should be no commercials during the debates.
The people should be allowed to record and rebroadcast the debates.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)nc4bo
(17,651 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)have been by our own government to these mega corporations.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)stage left
(2,966 posts)Hear! Hear! and I would add why don't we really have debates?
brooklynite
(94,745 posts)After all, why should some so-called experts decide who's a realistic candidate?
shenmue
(38,506 posts)Matariki
(18,775 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)questionseverything
(9,661 posts)ctsnowman
(1,903 posts)WillyT
(72,631 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)I guess in Bernieland, ignoring copyright law is the preferred way to convince people that your candidate isn't a socialist.
Sid
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)haikugal
(6,476 posts)darkangel218
(13,985 posts)And the post is allowed to stay..
haikugal
(6,476 posts)We knew this was a long term effort and one we'd have to work hard to make happen, but I understand what you're saying.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)are you suggesting that a debate in a DEMOCRACY in which candidates are presented to the public for evaluation before an election should be subject to copyright laws???
you just unwittingly made a beautiful case for Bernie presidency. Thank you.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)our Democracy and were we even asked for our opinions? Did they have any real RIGHT to do this?
What an oxymoron 'Privatized Democracy'.
Sid just pointed out, probably inadvertently what Bernie means, AND President Carter when they state correctly, that we have become an Oligarchy.
I always like it when I get help like that from people who probably intended the opposite!
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)has a way of finding its way out, even through people who disagree with it (or think they do)
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)scaring the hell out of the very people who need to be scared, and they should be.
Keeping this kicked, thanks for your help, feel free to keep kicking it, I appreciate the help
Btw, I see you may be losing your Right Wing 'leader' in your country. Seems the Left is rising all over the world, the UK, Greece, here, Canada.
Those neolib/con policies are not too popular anywhere are they?
FSogol
(45,529 posts)TheKentuckian
(25,029 posts)many jobs and much means of production to them but I don't blame their government but our own sold out one.
Cosmic Kitten
(3,498 posts)Clearly the DNC knew that they would
censor the debates and shut down
discussion through copyright claims.
The oligarchy runs the DNC.
The DNC sold out the debates to corporate
interests in order to control the narrative,
as evidenced by the reissue of an EDITED
version and a bogus claim against releasing
unedited footage.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)I've noticed the biggest Bernie haters are comfortable with the red baiting, free-marketeer, rhetoric of the right. Hopefully, the status quo democrat will win and nobody will have to Go Galt.
kenfrequed
(7,865 posts)So we should copyright democracy I suppose.
FFS this isn't a goddamned episode of Seinfeld.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I guess in Bernieland, ignoring copyright law is the preferred way to convince people that your candidate isn't the bad kind of socialist, that they heard about.
BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)Correct me if I'm wrong but you'll be voting for Harper, I guess?
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)zappaman
(20,606 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)in the hell DWS made this kind of agreement in the first place. Not hard to answer though since she also put in the exclusivity rules that she adopted from the Rs. Anything to keep the people from learning about the candidates.
Afterall the establishment knows best.
mythology
(9,527 posts)You can't just steal something that somebody else has the copyright to.
It's no more a grand conspiracy than the NFL not allowing somebody else to rebroadcast games for free.
This article may help explain why you think you see Swift's confederacy of dunces lining up against Sanders.
http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2011/03/denial-science-chris-mooney
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)time the Corporate crooks who have taken over our democracy tried to shut down and silence this channel and in the end all they do is get even more attention for their attempts to control the message.
And of course, remind us of how the Clinton Administration sold us down the river when they deregulated the Media, so important to any democracy, just SOLD to the highest bidders. And helped to deregulate the Banks, same thing, with the same disastrous results for the people.
I am so thankful that we have learned so much since then. And that these issues are at the top of the list in this election for a majority of Americans.
The more they try to control the message the more important it is to elect leaders who opposed all of this so we can get back control of what is ours and doesn't belong to just a few obscenely wealthy unprincipled, anti-democratic mega Corporations.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)Samantha
(9,314 posts)The more I observe in this contest, the more I am reminded of Election 2000 shenanigans. I remember someone from Wall Street said (and it was posted here) that they were okay with either Hillary Clinton or Jeb Bush. A couple of weeks ago, I read that Jeb's sponsors were going to only give him a month to raise his numbers or they would withdraw support. Should that latter item materialize, that might leave Wall Street with only one acceptable candidate - Hillary.
Sam
in_cog_ni_to
(41,600 posts)I hope the ACLU gets involved. This is outrageous, but oh so predictable! Now we know for a fact what their damn agenda is and we are going to fight them.
Reddit IT techs, DU IT techs, Bernie supporters all over this country will help him fight this corrupt crap!
They have fully outed themselves as being Hillary shills. Now we know the enemy. We will fight them and we will win!
No more need to question media bias! Here it is, as plain as the nose on your face.
Rat bastards.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)so there!
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)I hang my head in shame.
Years of doing IP law, including a lot of pro bono work for worthy causes, and I never learned shit.
Decades wasted, and all because someone can Google "fair use".
I'll just drop into my grave now, I suppose.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)"Jail the Banksters"
"For what ... Greed isn't a crime."
"Well ... {insert Pundit or 1980's prosecutor, here} said on the internet ..."
Damn ... All my AG years prosecuting crimes wasted ... I should've just waited for the internet ... I could've saved time AND a bunch of money!
brooklynite
(94,745 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)Every Focus Group....
Every Statistic now available....
37,600 Individual Donations DURING the Debate to Bernie....
50,000 New Twitter Followers DURING the Debate....
Bernie the MOST SEARCHED on Google DURING the Debate....
All this and MORE says 'BERNIE SANDERS WON THAT DEBATE'
bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)has to do with our right to know what the complete debate was and what was said. This is about our rights as citizens to understand what the candidates thoughts on issues are so we can better decide when we VOTE who is the best person to vote for.
This is our right!
stage left
(2,966 posts)Then I figured, well,they wanted as few people as possible to see it. Now I truly understand what they were after. Aren't the Republican debates all over the place for view?
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)The DNC wants money and CNN paid the most.
Skinner
(63,645 posts)Seems to happen to these folks with some regularity.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/128045711
Wonder who will shut them down next?
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)John Ellis 1 hour ago
+Quirin64 The channel is up but banned from streaming any new live events till 4.2016. The video is also blocked from view. The truth is being blocked from your view.
Kathryn Trevino 34 minutes ago
Your absolutely right. CNN cut off the last part of the debate, but Bernie2016tv carried the whole debate.
So now we will be unable to see live Bernie events that no other stations carry until April 2016.
This really makes me wonder whether we saw enough of the debate to matter??
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)John Ellis 1 hour ago
+Quirin64 The channel is up but banned from streaming any new live events till 4.2016. The video is also blocked from view. The truth is being blocked from your view.
Kathryn Trevino 34 minutes ago
Your absolutely right. CNN cut off the last part of the debate, but Bernie2016tv carried the whole debate.
those are from the comments after the video
azmom
(5,208 posts)Duval
(4,280 posts)I've ranted and raved about our MSM. I believe Bernie, if elected, will help get our air waves back to the People.
Thanks for the post, sabrina 1
stage left
(2,966 posts)It doesn't show because I had to change the title a little. The debates should have been aired on PBS as a public service. All Americans deserve the chance to see and hear the candidates and weigh their choices.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Debates. How on earth did we EVER allow this to happen?
Now there should be a huge DRIVE to allow these debates to be a Public Service which they ARE. I'd like to know how the Corps were able to get control of information like this?
NOW maybe we will some real exposure of just how sold out we were.
And if they think censoring information, ignoring the public's view on who won the debate, making their own decision regarding that, deleting their own polls, is going to help THEIR candidate of choice, they are in for a big surprise.
This couldn't look worse for Clinton.
brooklynite
(94,745 posts)Actually, maybe you could tell us when Bernie expresses an opinion? Because I haven't heard one.
stage left
(2,966 posts)Because I can.
stonecutter357
(12,697 posts)turbinetree
(24,720 posts)that can file suit against this stuff, can the ACLU step in?
Honk----------------for a political revolution Bernie 2016
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)turbinetree
(24,720 posts)Honk------------------for a political revolution Bernie 2016
George II
(67,782 posts)I couldn't take more than two or three minutes of his hystrionics - did he ever get around to saying what was "edited out"?
Looked to me that the debate I saw on Tuesday night was live - you can't edit live stuff.
Why aren't Sanders, Webb, Chafee, and O'Malley saying anything about this, especially Sanders?
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)intellectual property and what can't.
I would think a political debate belongs to all of us, but, apparently, Time Warner thinks it belongs to them.
This might make a good lawsuit to require public debates over non-cable entities like the major networks. It's a shame people have to pay to see how their country runs. Talk about oligarchy and fascism!
But, that CNN is being such asses about this - after they allowed public access - makes me rethink my statements that their claiming Clinton won wasn't a conspiracy (I called it expediency in return for access). I won't step off that plank, yet, but this does make me go, "Hmmmm."
onenote
(42,769 posts)and a television production of a political event is protected by copyright.
If one tv station sends cameras to record an event (with the permission of those holding the event), do you think that every other tv station in the country can just take that recording and air it rather than licensing it from the station that originated the telecast or obtaining permission to send their own cameras to the event?
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)is a forum people have to PAY FOR.
Decades mean nothing.
Response to sabrina 1 (Original post)
cal04 This message was self-deleted by its author.
tiredtoo
(2,949 posts)TexasTowelie
(112,456 posts)He calls it the Commie News Network.
The next debates in this order:
CBS, ABC, NBC, PBS and Univision
or as an acronym: CAN PU
tiredtoo
(2,949 posts)My son uses. Unfortunately.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)Haven't been back in one of those big ugly boxes since.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)It's the cable channel that carries "Democracy Now!" and other liberal programs.
At the very least he needs to get interviewed by Amy Goodman about this.
questionseverything
(9,661 posts)bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)we need to make sure the public knows what CNN did to our country. Yes our country. How dare they. DU attorney's please look into this. We need to demand PBS show all debates exclusively from now on. Those crooks. What they did in editing the debate has to be illegal. This is a public service not a paid cable show. All citizens have a right to see the debates all of the debates from beginning to end. Disgusted.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)It is a public broadcasting station and the debates would air live.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)Presidential Debates by the citizens of this country!
brooklynite
(94,745 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)attention we should b promoting it.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)cosmicone
(11,014 posts)cosmicone
(11,014 posts)Tomorrow, NFL will prohibit a rebroadcast of their football games ... wait -- they already do.
How unfair! Is there an online poll for that? I'm prepared to vote 20,000 times to prove people want the NFL games rebroadcast damnit!
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)First, CNN says others can rebroadcast it, then they go back on that word, which is one point, but the more disturbing issue is that corporations can own the rights to public debates because they are cable companies and not subjected to the same regulations as companies that use the public airwaves. If that is current law, it needs to change and should have never been allowed in the first place.
I get there is copyright laws because I use them frequently. I also understand the need for them.
But where I draw the line is in cases where they own speech that should belong to the American public, like presidential debates or other political forums. It was bad enough that a public debate was only aired on cable and/or Internet that people have to pay out-of-pocket to view, but "owning" the debate? That's fascism. Period.
brooklynite
(94,745 posts)The BERNIE2016TV poster said they "thought" they had rebroadcast rights; apparently they never checked.
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)and take the risk that viewership will earn them enough money to cover their costs. It is a big gamble.
The debate was beaten by NCIS in ratings ... so CNN didn't make all that much from the debate.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Who asked them to videotape Bernie debating anyway? !!!!
It is clear they have nefarious motives!
haikugal
(6,476 posts)We sat here and we're surprised there were commercials...wtf? Bring back fairness and the Women's League of Voters.
This is nuts.
Beaverhausen
(24,472 posts)CNN has employees they need to pay. There are many, many workers who make a show like that happen. Yes, it's a show.
haikugal
(6,476 posts)You might be fairly young and not realize that stations used to air debates as a public service and it had nothing to do with making a profit. They were moderated by an unbiased group everyone trusted, The League of Women Voters. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Women_Voters
I'd like to know why that was changed and why so many seem to think it's just fine. It surprises me, to say the least.
The memory hole is not ct and propaganda is real as well.
We are supposed to be a democracy and this kind of thing on top of DWS and her arbitrary 'rules' looks really bad.
As citizens we need to be actively involved.
Just sayin.
Beaverhausen
(24,472 posts)What used to be and what is are two different things.
Back to the topic at hand...
I'm still trying to figure out how CNN magically edited things out while the debate was live on the air.
And I'm trying to figure out if things were edited out why the candidates are not saying anything about it.
haikugal
(6,476 posts)I am not versed in the rest, waiting to see what happened or is happening.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)But actual people who did the stage design and a lot of other creative work, were paid on the basis of the terms under which it was going to be broadcast. Likewise, the advertisers who put up the money upfront were also looking at a value proposition based on the terms under which it was going to be broadcast.
NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)Just because you don't have as many viewers as NCIS doesn't mean you can't make money.
I don't know how much it cost CNN to produce the debates but CNN's Oct 6th viewership was less than .5 million people at 9 PM. Getting 30x your normal numbers is pretty good.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts).....my sides are hurting.
Ok. Carry on. I'm good to go again.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)Fuck CNN trying to claim copyright over a presidential debate.
treestar
(82,383 posts)That's a fact.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)Do you not give a shot about?
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)JRLeft
(7,010 posts)This shit makes the movie the Matrix seem real doesn't it?
BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)It's perfectly fine, nothing to see here, move along.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)jalan48
(13,888 posts)It's shit like this that all American's should be waking up to.
Bernblu
(441 posts)We should boycott CNN.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)I was at a Bernie Sanders debate watch party (organized by my son at a local restaurant). I figured it would be noisy there, so I also Tivo'd the debate.
If you went with the default Tivo settings, the recording stopped at 2 hours - just before Hillary's closing statement.
Millions of Tivo users didn't see her closing statement at all.
TheKentuckian
(25,029 posts)for dealing with a live event or really anything. If you don't bump even regular programming an extra minute or two sometimes you will lose a little bit, especially those quick little end cap segments around the credits.
Why do you think CNN had anything to do with the end getting cut off? We've been recording TV for decades don't tell me this is some shocking phenomenon.
This is a bizarre comparison it seems to me. What does your equipment and it's software have to do with use of an unedited (and therefore the historical record of a) Presidential debate?
If one cannot imagine the potential for trouble with this way of doing our national business even if you think all is well with this event then I really don't know what to tell you. The odds of any story along this line ending well without at least going through some serious hell first are so long they are measured in lightyears.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Do you see Hillary supporters going ape shit over TiVo cutting off her closing by default? No.
Here is the full audio of the debate:
http://www.mprnews.org/story/2015/10/14/mpr_news_presents
TheKentuckian
(25,029 posts)Why in the world would anyone "go ape" because of either the functionality of their own equipment or their own failure to add time to a live event or that Clinton got the last word?
Seriously what the hell would be the complaint? How would CNN or anybody really have anything to do with the complete nonsense comparison you are trying to manufacture?
You either find or invent much more sophisticated recording systems for home use or use some fucking common sense with what you have or you let someone else close as not to run the risk.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)over our national political discourse. Fucking A!
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)This is not the hill to die on.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)far less importance to the national dialogue than his position on how we do elections.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)That's a really amazing comment.
She had Bernie on, had a pleasant conversation, and provided him with an audience of millions of people, many of whom may have never heard him say two words before.
Just amazing.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)SmittynMo
(3,544 posts)Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)that you're right. I was talking like an unthinking ass. I guess I'm just saddened that here we have a very serious man trying to tell the world that we need serious focus on serious issues, but still we expect him to dance and smile and discuss his favorite color and show his cordial nature. I just can't imagine James Madison jumping through those kinds of hoops.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)And you can dismiss humanity all you want.
Unlike many things which "are not a popularity contest", an election is precisely that.
I don't know Ellen Degeneres from Adam, quite frankly. I do understand she is popular with many people who identify with her as a leading LGBT media figure.
We now know what at least one Sanders supporter thinks of that.
Between Clinton and Sanders, I'm voting for Sanders. But I wish other people who likewise support Sanders weren't unsufferable assholes.
Response to jberryhill (Reply #207)
Ed Suspicious This message was self-deleted by its author.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)interview and thought that was all there was too it and I was annoyed that the vapidity of the whole spectacle . I just came across the link to the entire interview, watched it through, and I see exactly what you are saying. It really was a nice chat where he talked about the issues in a very easy to digest way for non-politicos.
I'm sorry for pushing your buttons, and I'm sorry for speaking in such a shitty manner.
That's that.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)de nada.
TheKentuckian
(25,029 posts)CNN or whatever network for this tiny fucking minimal sliver (the actual debates and aired speeches not every talk show appearance) should be entitled to their ad revenue but damn well should be required to either offer an unedited cut or allow non revenue bearing public access to those willing to bear the expense of doing so for the public good.
You know what though I'd be fine applying the same standard to the appearance of anyone on or even reasonably expected to be on a ballot (full control can revert to the broadcaster if the candidate fails to be on the ballot).
Access to the unedited content for the record is important.
MADem
(135,425 posts)the Sanders campaign in any way, shape or form.
I do not think the Sanders campaign would be down with copyright infringement. Has anyone heard them say anything about this brouhaha?
This is just a lousy issue to plant a flag on.
Ask your congressional representatives to introduce law that requires CSPAN to film all debates. Unless and until that happens, networks, cable and broadcast, are going to protect their work product.
This Ellis guy has apparently done this before, and got "shut down" by VIACOM. I guess he got a warning that time, but this time they aren't going to let him stream to his users anymore because he doesn't respect the property of others.
They allowed him to stream the event live so he could reach his subscribers; that doesn't make him a part owner of their work product.
brooklynite
(94,745 posts)...nobody has pointed to the SPECIFIC editing that CNN is alleged to have done.
rladdi
(581 posts)etc.
The questions ask of GOP candidates were nothing compared to the questions Anderson Cooper ask the Democrats, who kept pressing for more answers of the Democrats.
The GOP debates were just for show, attacks against each other and for high ratings by the cable channels.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)networks rather than the big 3 or PBS?
BainsBane
(53,072 posts)They sent a Cease and Desist letter for copyright violation over the rebroadcast of the debate, which Bernie2016 can challenge in court if they think it is in error. Invoking copyright for their programming is not shutting down the channel. As much as I would like to see debates in the public domain, they are not. The candidates--including Bernie--agreed to those terms before participating.
olddots
(10,237 posts)Bernie and those of us for him want the game to not be fixed .
BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)And when some of those rules can't be ignored they are changing them.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)They write the rules.
Playing nice is what the neglect to do.
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)and a few others, I never again want to hear about how much more learned and grounded in reality people on the left are. I have been stripped of those illusions. That is all I have to say.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)It's sad to see a whole group of intelligent people slip right into hysteria and unscientific mumbo-jumbo in politics.
The right wing has been there for years and it's sad as hell to see people that really care about this country and it's people, all its people, going down the conspiracy, tinfoil hat road.
Number23
(24,544 posts)zappaman
(20,606 posts)juajen
(8,515 posts)Codeine
(25,586 posts)in the entire thread.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)They have lost all sense of perspective. The analogy I used on my Facebook page was the first debate between Romney and Obama. People accused us Obama supporters of being cult like, but it wasn't so much that we couldn't recognize that Romney won that debate.
He may have won it by spewing lies, and many of us including myself noted that, but he won. In the exact same circumstance Bernie supporters would be insisting that Romney lost.
Suddenly internet polls are valid measurements of how the population sees things, and the opinions of Bernie supporting attorneys practicing 15+ years in intellectual property don't matter regarding copyright law if their opinion is seen as not benefiting Bernie.
No fact, expertise or Peer reviewed scientific information is safe if it somehow doesn't support Bernie.
Any person or entity that doesn't support Bernie or do what Bernie supporters want them to do vis-a-vis Bernie is evil or part of a conspiracy or both. I have never seen anything like this outside of the Alex Jones crowd who have their conspiracy theories and refuse to acknowledge any kind of information that refutes them.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)"I have never seen anything like this" You see it every time you appear as an unpaid pundit on Fox Propaganda News.
senz
(11,945 posts)It's important to keep that in perspective.
jfern
(5,204 posts)who let them lie however they want without consequences.
BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)I wonder how far big corporations and any group or organization that are viewing Bernie as a threat will be ready to go down the road.
BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)But from watching television coverage of this dramatic moment in the debate, you would only hear half of the story. Playing clips from the debate, CNN and other networks focused almost exclusively on the political impact of Sanders expressing solidarity with Clinton about her damn emails while editing out his comment about the failures of the media to talk about the biggest issues facing America.
...
But heres the part that was edited out:
SANDERS: The middle class Anderson, and let me say something about the media, as well. I go around the country, talk to a whole lot of people. Middle class in this country is collapsing. We have 27 million people living in poverty. We have massive wealth and income inequality. Our trade policies have cost us millions of decent jobs. The American people want to know whether were going to have a democracy or an oligarchy as a result of Citizens United.
Here is the unedited exchange: (clip at the site linked below)
The way MSNBC covered it left viewers with the impression that Sanders was going after the Republican Party for obsessing over Clintons private email server. In fact, he was railing against the sensationalism-obsessed media that ignores bread-and-butter issues affecting normal Americans as well as systemic corruption in politics.
https://theintercept.com/2015/10/14/cable-news-edits-out-rousing-sanders-attack-on-vapid-media-coverage/
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)televising of the debate.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)People who actually watched the debate in realtime got to see the full statement. I haven't seen the edited video online, but the impression from the comments is that they seem to have cut the part about 'the media' from the 'acceptable' versions, and are yanking unedited versions.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)That is about the most petty thing I have heard this campaign season.
Comcast looks like an idiotic company in my mind.
Horrors!
Did Bernie hurt your feelings, giant media company?
Do you need a big hug?
How disgusting. Comcast needs tp grow up.
Why we must defend net neutrality.
Can you imagine what would happen to the internet if a company that sensitive and controlling could decide what information was transmitted fastest on the internet?
I have Time Warner internet. We pay extra to get extra speed and then get horrible reception and slow internet. Maybe my posts hurt Time-Warner (Comcast)'s itty bitty feelings.
I'm joking of course.
But this is beyond the pale.
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)Time Warner owns CNN. (I saw you mention Comcast upthread as well and thought you might want to know.)
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)It is a terrible mistake, but there has been so much confusion about proposed mergers and buy-outs. I don't subscribe to cable. I probably should not have pointed my finger in the first place. Thanks for giving me yet another chance to apologize.
It is really important on the internet more than any place to acknowledge errors and try to set the record straight. I suppose mistakes are inevitable, but I appreciate the chance to make the point you are making very clear.
Thanks.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)"I haven't seen the edited video online, but the impression from the comments..."
Have you ever heard the expression "whisper down the lane".
So far, I have not seen a shred of evidence suggesting that CNN gave anyone permission to record and rebroadcast the entire debate. Not one shred.
I have also not seen the so-called "edited debate video".
The most popular line of the night was Sanders' "damn email" line. That line came after a preamble involving criticism of the way media covers the campaign.
What seems to bunch the panties of some folks is that they would like the most popular line of the night to be something other than what it was (and TiVo has published stats on most-watched segments), and are upset that a lot of outlets are using a clip that starts with the "damn email" line itself.
However, the Rachel Maddow show, for one, showed an extended cut of that segment just last night on the Maddow broadcast (which is available as a podcast every day).
But you seem not the least bit curious where this "edited" version of the complete debate is. You accept its existence as a fact, despite there having been several requests now from the less faith-based among us, to see exactly where this 'edited' debate video is.
I have the whole thing on Tivo. I'm perfectly happy to do a detailed comparison against the 'edited' debate video.
Do you think that is a worthwhile idea? Will you help me find this 'edited' debate video?
Or will you just keep repeating the claim without any actual knowledge of where this supposed 'edited' video is?
klook
(12,170 posts)...Provided as a public service for educational purposes, not necessarily an endorsement of copyright violation
LatestNews Channel (scroll down to find Dem debate footage)
This segment contains the censored portion about "your damn emails" and corporate complicity in distracting us from the real issues:
(forward to the 2:35 mark)
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Just silliness.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Right to their property. This is not what American values is and I doubt it will be in the near future. There are protections in owning what is rightfully mine.
Vinca
(50,310 posts)It's all about the money.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)if I want to hear more, I can always get the information I need from other sources. I am done with this crap.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)which are not "censorship."
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)They were given CNN's blessing to use it.
It wasn't until AFTER the debate that they pulled this crap.
Another good point is that this is NOT their exclusive property ANYWAY. It belongs to the voting public. They just hosted it, they don't OWN it.
If they were doing this during the cross party debate to make the Republican look good you would agree that it is not the role of a news gathering organization to modify what happened to favor the Republican.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)CNN livestreamed the entire debate for free.
Some people, who have more optimism than brains, believed this was a license to record the stream and make it available for re-broadcast on the internet.
But, show me a statement from CNN to *anyone* that gave them the right to record and re-broadcast the program.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)In what form did CNN give him permission to archive and rebroadcast the program?
While I'm sure you don't know YouTube's rules on takedowns, it turns out that if he had CNN's permission, all he has to do is show that to YouTube.
Do you have a link - other than this guy saying so - to CNN's permission to archive and rebroadcast the program? Yes or no?
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)That if he wants to make an issue over the consent he claims was given, then he could provide a copy of it, or could have shown it to YouTube when they took the video down.
What I believe is most likely is that he misunderstood that permission to restream the event live was just that, permission to restream the event live.
People in this conversation keep saying, "but he had permission" on the basis of nothing whatsoever than this guy thinking he had permission to archive and rebroadcast, when it's pretty clear that's not the scope of the permission he had.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)This wasn't a "show".
This is how America gets to decide who runs the country.
Just because CNN HOSTED it doesn't mean they have exclusive rights to a public event.
If that's the case all further debates should only be carried by C-Span and PBS or at least one of the networks that use public airwaves to put an end to the "exclusivity" nonsense.
BTW: I still say if they were doing this to make a Republican look good you would be outraged.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)...was that Mr. Ellis exceeded the scope of his license to restream the event, archived the stream, and CNN had YouTube take it down because Mr. Ellis exceeded the scope of his license.
If you would like to watch the full debate, there is no shortage of recorded copies to choose from:
This is a full copy of the CNN debate on YouTube:
This is another full copy of the CNN debate on YouTube:
This thread is a consequence of one person's butthurt over doing something beyond the scope of what he agreed, and not about whether the debate is available for viewing.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)This is an example of raw feed:
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)The debate was a production held at the Wynn casino in Las Vegas before a live audience. It was not a studio production.
Mr. Ellis had permission to restream the CNN broadcast - the same one shown on TV and the same one shown in the two YouTube videos to which I have already linked.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)onenote
(42,769 posts)When Trump and the other repubs disrespect and violate intellectual property rights by using musical works without license, we stand up and applaud those rights and lambaste the abusers of those rights. But when copyright is invoked against someone we like -- well, that's a completely different story.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Babel_17
(5,400 posts)This is what I said in another thread.
They use multiple cameras so it's plausible that they might use the delay to choose which camera feed they prefer to use. Secretary Clinton was positioned in the middle so that makes it easier to have a good choice between among the left, center, and right, cameras.
If someone cared enough to show bias, they had the means to do so by choosing the camera feed that framed HRC the best. I alluded to this in a post in another thread, IIRC. Either way I certainly noticed that she was getting great camera angles.
Fwiw, this is a thing from TV shows.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple-camera_setup
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-camera_setup
Cheers, for example, was multi-cam. Scrubs, for example, was single camera (except for their Cheers tribute episode).
brooklynite
(94,745 posts)...he hasn't complained about the "scandal", neither will I.
Historic NY
(37,453 posts)but I'm not contributing to any lawsuits either.
MADem
(135,425 posts)He probably wishes this "helper" would stop "helping."
I know there are people who think this website is associated with Sanders' campaign--it's not.
And with all the eye-rolling and hot-breathed agita, after it's pretty clear that HE is the lawbreaker, here, it makes him look a bit ... disconnected from the goal, shall we say.
I don't see Sanders or anyone on his team supporting the theft of copyrighted materials. This guy, shrieking and wailing on the internet that he wasn't allowed to steal material without permission, isn't a good representative of the "Bern feelers," imo. And apparently this was the second time he did this--and he's he's shocked (shocked!) that he got caught again.
Uncle Joe
(58,426 posts)Thanks for the thread, sabrina.
stone space
(6,498 posts)PatrynXX
(5,668 posts)perhaps try there?? dailymotion.com French run. and they have phone apps etc heck the only way one can watch Rammsteins Pus*y video albeit not great quality
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)What did CNN do that was so wrong?
The reality is the the Bernie campaign messed up and entered in to contractual agreement they had no intention of honoring and got caught.
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)'some things don't need to be said' because they have been said so often.
:rolf:
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)Codeine
(25,586 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)The Center for Social Media publishes an excellent Code of Best Practices in Fair Use for Online Video, which lists the following six uses as being probable fair use:
1Commenting on or critiquing of copyrighted material
2Using copyright material for illustration or example
3Capturing copyrighted material incidentally or accidentally
4Reproducing, reposting, or quoting in order to memorialize, preserve, or rescue an experience, an event, or a cultural phenomenon
5copying, reposting, and recirculating a work or part of a work for purposes of launching a discussion
6Quoting in order to recombine elements to make a new work that depends for its meaning on (often unlikely) relationships between the elements
http://fairusetube.org/guide-to-youtube-removals/3-deciding-if-video-is-fair-use
this is in regards to youtube but it should apply to the debate as well.
the debate clearly satifies provision 4 and 5, and probably 1 as well and maybe 2
this is total bullshit.
onenote
(42,769 posts)I can tell you that there is no chance -- zero -- that someone posting the entire CNN debate online would be found to have engaged in "fair use" of that copyrighted work.
There was nothing 'transformative' about posting the entire debate video. That fact, plus the fact it was posted in its entirety is fatal.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)then we can't have future debates moderated and televised in this way.
pbs or something.
people have a right to see this material without the selective editing of a corporation that stands to benefit from a particular outcome.
sometims it is hard to remember what country i am in, sad.
onenote
(42,769 posts)Here is the clip of the exchange about the emails posted by CNN on Wednesday on YouTube. Please tell me what has been edited.
Yes, when the network's talking heads did their post debate commentary and they talked about Bernie coming to Clinton's defense about the emails, they edited it to focus on the dramatic "enough" points -- but that's no surprise -- that's the point they were discussing. They didn't include the other candidates discussions of the emails either. Because they were focusing on one particular, and memorable, moment.
But the idea that they CNN is hiding Bernie's criticism of the media is BS.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)but if CNN really believes that people should have access to all of the clips in the debate, then why don't they just make the full debate available to whoever wants to view it? as long as they keep releasing little snippets of this and snippets of that, their motivations will be called into question, as they should be. This was a public debate for a public and free election in a free democracy. The results of that debate should be freely available to anyone who wants to view it, anytime, without editing.
their corporate parent is one of Hillary's biggest donors. It is not a conspiracy theory to suggest that their corporate bosses just might be a little partial to her candidacy. And that calls into question their motivations. they can end all of the speculation right now by just releasing the full video tape into the public domain.
onenote
(42,769 posts)Why does CNN allow this? Don't know. Maybe these folks asked for permission. Maybe the Bernie2016.tv reposting of the debate contained extraneous material -- it was gone before I could see it.
But the reality is that if you have an Internet connection and want to watch the entire debate, it's there for the viewing.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)with no clip outs, then i am good with that.
still don't know what happened with bernietv though.
onenote
(42,769 posts)While I can't say this for certain, since I didn't see the Bernie2016.tv youtube posting of the debate, my understanding is that the copy of the debate posted by Bernie2016.tv extended beyond the end of the debate and included some amount (not sure how much) of CNN's post-debate analysis coverage. That differentiates it from the clips of the entire debate that I've seen posted (as one clip or divided into 16). Whether this is the case or not I can't say for certain, but it makes sense. For example, if Bernie2016.tv (or anyone else) posted clips of any other network's analysis of the debate or their local station's reporting about the debate, or of the Daily Show's commentary about it, and the station or network objected to the unauthorized copying and posting of that reporting or analysis or commentary, I doubt anyone would be that surprised.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)why bernie tv would WANT to do that. almost all of the MSM post debate analysis was extremely favorable to Hillary, and it took all of about five seconds before everyone except Matthews declared her a winner. I suppose if they wanted to stay out of legal hot water, perhaps they could have just directed readers to the appropriate YouTube clips of those discussions without running it themselves. I don't know, I'm not a lawyer. But thanks for the info.
chillfactor
(7,584 posts)whine, whine, whine...you Sanders supporters are so good at that....people are turned off by your whining.....you act like 2-year olds having a temper tantrum.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)unless the rule is changed. I know that is exactly what Hillary and DWS want but something needs to be done.
In the mean time. Rachel is going to host a "forum" Nov 3 for all of the candidates. That is also on cable and may have the same type of contractual agreements as this debate.
Some one who is smarter than I am needs to get to her and ask the questions about this regarding her forum.
brooklynite
(94,745 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)CNN and hold the debates somewhere else.
The very idea that these debates, such an integral part of our Democratic system, are not in the Public Domain is simply shocking. That our democracy has been SOLD.
What a threat this is to democracy. Propagandists can now USE what should belong to the public, for their own purposes.
And they ARE already doing that. They are showing short clips apparently, which are taken out of context, Bernie saving Hillary from the email questions eg, and making it look like Bernie was attacking her.
And the public cannot show the full clip, as Bernie2016TV was doing, so that their propaganda can be exposed for what it is.
But they should have though about the Social Media. The BACKLASH to their clearly manipulative tactics is fierce And it will get worse as more learn what they are doing.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Bernie will release a blistering statement tomorrow on his YouTube channel you claim doesn't exist.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)insisted belong to him, which of course it does not, it has no connection at all to his campaign.
Your comment tells me you are not happy with the exposure of how corrupt and RIGGED our system is by this kind of censorship of what SHOULD BE in the Public Domain. Well assuming we ARE still a Democracy that is.
Sorry to get you so upset, but the People have had enough which is why Bernie eg, won the first debate, and without a helping hand from anyone.
He simply told the truth and the people heard him and responded, tens of thousands with small donations etc.
I hope you'll come around to opposing the Corporate control of our Media some day.
Meantime we won't stop exposing their propaganda everywhere it occurs.
And no, they are NOT hiding anywhere, they BELIEVE in Corporate Control over the 'lesser people' sort of the way any cult interested in only money, convinces itself they are RIGHT.
To hide they would need to be capable of normal human emotions, such as SHAME. Such power hungry, greedy people don't posses such emotions.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)1. This is the Bernie Sanders campaign YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCH1dpzjCEiGAt8CXkryhkZg
2. This is John Ellis' "Bernie2016 TV" YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_yPTb_MIzNt725QKVW_y9A
3. This is John Ellis' Bernie2016.tv website, in which he uses a RebelMouse template to embed videos from his YouTube Channel:
Bernie2016.tv
Mr. Ellis had permission to stream the event live. He did not have permission to archive the stream, load it to YouTube, and rebroadcast it from there by embedding it in his website. Because he did that, CNN asked YouTube to take it down, and Mr. Ellis threw a hissy.
This is a full copy of the CNN debate on YouTube:
This is another full copy of the CNN debate on YouTube:
Mr. Ellis is a self-important ignoramus, who wants his personal issues to get in the way of promoting the Sanders campaign.
Beaverhausen
(24,472 posts)I'm starting to wonder...
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)I really wish I had the skilled technicians for my channel to be able to compete with Television crews so I could eg, USE my Utube channel the same way, eg, Fox uses theirs, or any other Television station uses THEIRS.
But since Bernie2016TV does, like all the other TV outlets, I don't need it.
Bernie's Ubube Channel is not a TV outlet.
But I suspect you won't get the difference, which is not my problem nor am I interested in wasting any more time trying to help you understand.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)You've never attempted to explain the distinction you are trying to make.
Mr. Ellis is upset because YouTube removed a video from his YouTube channel.
Mr. Ellis tweeted this screenshot of his YouTube video having been removed from his YouTube channel:
That takedown of a YouTube video is what this thread is about, and it is what Mr. Ellis was complaining about.
Your continued pretending that this is about something else, which you don't seem to be able to describe among your curious spellings, is puzzling.
What has the Sanders' campaign said about any of this?
Beaverhausen
(24,472 posts)Have you contributed to John Ellis' legal fund yet?
and by the way, what is UTUBE?
aspirant
(3,533 posts)Nov. 14 hosted by CBS, KCCI and the Des Moines Register
Dec. 19 Hosted by ABC and WMUR
Jan. 17 Hosted by NBC and the Progressive Black Caucas Institute
Feb. 11 Hosted by PBS
March 9 Nosted by Univision and the Washington Post
Not only should we demand to see the CNN contract with DNC but all these other contracts before they happen
It appears the MSM is involved in every single debate and are the main paymasters for these lame phone polls, how convenient.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)democratic process?
Boycotts work.
How about demanding that CNN doesn't host the debates
Clearly they can't be trusted,
onenote
(42,769 posts)and a television production of a campaign event also is protected by copyright. CNN isn't the first to claim that protection and they won't be the last.
Response to onenote (Reply #366)
aspirant This message was self-deleted by its author.
treestar
(82,383 posts)but on their work product. On the video they made. If they hadn't made that video then the only people who would have seen the debate would be those physically there. We'd have to rely on their reports.
As it was, we could see the video and make our own transcription, even.
You post as if without the video, the debate could not have taken place.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Estate of Martin Luther King, Jr., Inc. v. CBS, Inc. (194 F.3d 1211 (11th Cir. 1999))
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estate_of_Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.,_Inc._v._CBS,_Inc.
The United States Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit ruled that the public performance of his speech did not constitute "general publication" and thus by giving this speech in public he did not forfeit his copyright in its text. Thus, King's estate is able to require a license fee for redistribution of the speech's text, whether in a television program, a history book, a dramatic re-enactment, or otherwise.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)I certainly saw in person that it was dead at the Wynn but when did it occur? And when did CNN become Faux light? If Bernie doesn't win, our country is totally screwed.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)System was SOLD to Private Interests, taking what SHOULD BE in the PUBLIC DOMAIN out of the Public Domain and privatizing it.
That gave control to propagandists to OWN information like this.
The threat to our system of elections is so apparent, I can only conclude that anyone who is dismissing this, should simply be ignored while the rest of us, which is the MAJORITY of Americans, do everything possible to get people, not just the President, into office so we begin the process of taking our 'property' back from Private Hands and returning it to the people.
Eg, CNN can tack clips from the Debates and distort them as they have done, by using them out of context to push their own propaganda and ensure that THEY not the people, get the Politicians Corporations want into power and keep them there.
onenote
(42,769 posts)Prior to 1996, there were three major broadcast television networks. They were all owned by "private" interests.
And those private interests, you may recall, helped ensure that after the first televised presidential election debate in 1960, there were no more televised presidential election debates until 1976.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)the people from what today, there is no protection from, Private Entities being able to USE the airwaves for Propaganda purposes.
Before the Clinton Adminstration removed all checks and balances and made it possible for the HUGE takeover of our airwaves by Private Corps with ZERO restrictions, they had to be a bit more careful.
Thank Clinton for the fact that the entire Corporate Media is now either Fox or Fox lite.
onenote
(42,769 posts)made it possible for private entities to use the airwaves for propaganda purposes that constrained them from doing so before the 1996 Act?
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)do! Why did we need the Clinton Deregulation legislation if the Fairness Act offered no protections against what we are seeing today? Surely we didn't need to pass laws to end something that made no difference, no?
onenote
(42,769 posts)Last time I checked, the president can introduce legislation, can sign legislation or can veto legislation. But the president can't enact legislation. In this instance, President Clinton didn't introduce the legislation. But he signed it. After it passed with enormous bi-partisan, veto-proof majorities in the House and Senate: 90-5 in the Senate and 414-16 (with support from nearly 90 percent of the Democrats in those chambers). So it's interesting that you call it "Clinton's deregulation" of the media.
Apart from that, and while I think there are portions of the 1996 Act relating to the broadcast radio and television industries that were ill-advised, those provisions actually were a relatively small part of an Act that were quite well intentioned and did have some positive impact. More specifically, most of the 1996 Act dealt with creating competition in the telephone industry (both for the provision of service and development of equipment). It helped spur the surge in innovation we've seen over the past 20 years in telecommunications. It included Universal Service provisions and provisions requiring telecommunications services be made available to the disabled. The act also eliminated the prohibition on phone companies providing video services, which opened the door not only for Verizon and ATT, but also smaller companies such as CenturyLink, RCN, WOW, etc. to offer their voice customers an alternative to the incumbent traditional cable operator for video. In 1992, over 98 percent of the country received multichannel video from a traditional cable operator. Today, that number is down to around 52 percent. Most of that competition comes from DirecTV and DISH, but over 13 million households receive their video service from a telephone company that competes with the traditional cable operator -- an option not available prior the 1996 Act.
Could some of these provisions have been even stronger? Probably, but the legislative effort that culminated in the 1996 Act had been going on for years (beginning prior to the Clinton administration) and compromises were made as they often are in the legislative process. In fact, but for a veto threat from Clinton in 1995, the bill would have been worse.
While the act did contain several provisions that did or at least had the potential of benefitting consumers, it also, as I indicated, went overboard in its provisions relating to over-the-air radio and television. It helped pave the way for high definition television but at a cost. Yet, even the provisions relating to broadcast ownership and license terms changed the law only incrementally, often addressing matters that the FCC could have addressed even without legislation.
For example, the Act extended radio and TV license terms to 8 years (from 7 and 5 years). It also got rid of the FCC's national ownership cap for radio stations and increased the number of radio stations a single entity could control in a local market to
local radio ownership limits (allowing ownership of up to 8 stations in a market that has at least 45 stations, with lower limits for markets with fewer stations). The result of this has been more concentration in the broadcast radio industry, but it still isn't a very concentrated market by most standards. Nationally, the four largest group owners of radio stations together control around 1660 stations (roughly 11 percent of all over the air radio stations). The total number of radio stations has increased since 1995 by nearly 30 percent -- most of this growth has been in the number of FM educational stations (which increased from around 1800 stations to over 4000 stations); the number of commercial FM stations increased by over 1300 stations (from around 5300 to around 6650). I don't think relaxing the ownership limits was a good idea, particularly since it helped grow Limbaugh's distribution. But the reality is that Limbaugh is carried on around 600 stations (and dropping); NPR is syndicated to around 900 stations. Both have around 13 million listeners weekly.
Over on the broadcast television side, the act increased the national audience reach for TV station ownership to 35% from 25%, eliminated the FCC's network-cable cross ownership rule and the statutory broadcast station-cable cross ownership restriction, but left in place the FCC's broadcast-cable and broadcast-newspaper ownership bans, leaving the FCC the same power to continue or eliminate those rules as it had prior to the Act. Other provisions, not relating to broadcast television, included one that deregulated the expanded tier of cable service (but left in place regulation of the basic tier).
All in all, the 1996 Act was a mixture of good intentions along with some bad ideas. Measuring it's impact is complicated by the fact that on almost all fronts, the telecommunications universe today is vastly different than the one that existed in 1996, with the main difference the growth of the Internet and its evolution into a service capable of delivering voice and video in competition with the traditional video and voice companies that were the subject of the 1996 Act. It also is vastly different from the communications world of the so-called golden era when three companies controlled virtually all prime time television viewing, with no options from cable or the Internet and when telephone service was controlled by a national monopoly and we all had black rotary dial phones that couldn't do much more than make local and long distance calls.
If I could wave a magic wand and change the ownership limit revisions in the 1996 Act I would. But I wouldn't expect that doing so would make much of a difference (although hopefully it would open the door for more minorities and women to own broadcast properties). It wouldn't bring back the fairness doctrine (which was gone long before the 1996 Act). It wouldn't necessarily make Rush Limbaugh disappear (his was the leading talk radio show years before the 1996 Act).
In short, I don't see where the state of the media today can be laid at the feet of the 1996 Act. People that think it can simply want to believe that there is a simple answer to a complex situation. And when they call it "Clinton's deregulation" they also reveal that they have a political agenda.
onenote
(42,769 posts)can't protect their copyrighted material.
You know, the folks that run DU have adopted a policy that posters should copy more than four paragraphs of copyrighted written material. Why? Because they understand copyright law. But I guess DU is killing the First Amendment too.
RandySF
(59,276 posts)And therefore, have a right to control who uses it. It's like you having control over who uses your stuff.
delrem
(9,688 posts)Billions of $$ in campaign funding supplied by the owners of the MSM is hard to battle.
Some say it's impossible to battle.
Hillary Clinton's supporters say it is.
But consider that to not fight them is to bow down before more war for profit.
That is guaranteed, and known to all to be guaranteed. No evading that one.
It is to bow down before more "bipartisanship" benefiting the ownership class, the oligarchy.
That also is guaranteed, and known to all to be guaranteed.
That's why I say it is to "bow down before" them. Your masters.
It is to put up nothing against the hell that unregulated war profiteering is bringing to the world.
Seems a no brainer to me, that this guy and his channel should get some help.
Expert help.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Thank you for the thread, sabrina!
I am already boycotting almost all commercial TV. I watched the CNN debate but only because they included our Bernie.
brooklynite
(94,745 posts)Bernie Sanders won't complain
The ACLU won't complain
The LWV won't complain
The Brennan Center won't complain
Two weeks from now, this will be forgotten
randome
(34,845 posts)The double exclamation marks were a nice touch.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]
Zorra
(27,670 posts)Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)I don't see anything dirty except those disseminating information they don't legally own.
The contract should have been negotiated differently if the Bernie Campaign had no intention of acting in good faith and staying within the provisions of the property ownership.
Before you freak out at me, I agree that the content of a debate should be available to the public without charge. But unfortunately when bozo's enter into a contractual agreement they don't read carefully, their hands are bound by things they didn't realize they agreed to..
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)olddots
(10,237 posts)because "news " is entertainment .
The movie Broadcast News couldn't get made now and watch what happens with the current Redford film .Media deregulaion is destroying democracy by allowing vulture capitalists to brain wash people into buying certain products .