Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHillary Clinton's Big Climate Change Accomplishment Was Actually a Huge Failure
Oh oh....Houston we may have a problem.
Hillary Clinton's Big Climate Change Accomplishment Was Actually a Huge Failure
http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2015/10/hillary-clinton-climate-change-debate-copenhagen
".......and then there was Hillary Clinton. About midway through the debate, Clinton staked her climate record on what's widely perceived to have been one of the biggest diplomatic failures in recent historythe Copenhagen climate summit in 2009. After years of anticipation, the meeting of world leaders ended in disarray, with Obama and his aides famously wandering around the convention center, looking for the leaders of China, India, Brazil, and other key nations. The toothless deal struck at the last minute was called a "grudging accord" by the New York Times the next day. Yes, Obamaand Clinton, then his secretary of statewere instrumental to that deal, but it's hardly something Hillary should be proud of.
So it was pretty strange to hear her comments on Tuesday night. In her first answer on climate change, Clinton said, "I have been on the forefront of dealing with climate change starting in 2009 when President Obama and I crashed a meeting with the Chinese and got them to sign up to the first international agreement to combat climate change that they'd ever joined."
In reality, the sour legacy of Copenhagen has haunted international climate negotiations ever since. It's now widely believed that the United States never wanted a legally binding climate deal in Copenhagen at alleven though the Democrats controlled the Congress at the time and may have been able to successfully ratify the treatyopting instead for a mostly empty pledge of billions of dollars in aid to developing nations. Among environmentalists, Clinton has retained only a mediocre reputation on climate change as a result.
Her Copenhagen comment wasn't just a poor choice of wording, because she brought it up again later in the debate. Climate activists on Twitter weren't psyched."
http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2015/10/hillary-clinton-climate-change-debate-copenhagen
".......and then there was Hillary Clinton. About midway through the debate, Clinton staked her climate record on what's widely perceived to have been one of the biggest diplomatic failures in recent historythe Copenhagen climate summit in 2009. After years of anticipation, the meeting of world leaders ended in disarray, with Obama and his aides famously wandering around the convention center, looking for the leaders of China, India, Brazil, and other key nations. The toothless deal struck at the last minute was called a "grudging accord" by the New York Times the next day. Yes, Obamaand Clinton, then his secretary of statewere instrumental to that deal, but it's hardly something Hillary should be proud of.
So it was pretty strange to hear her comments on Tuesday night. In her first answer on climate change, Clinton said, "I have been on the forefront of dealing with climate change starting in 2009 when President Obama and I crashed a meeting with the Chinese and got them to sign up to the first international agreement to combat climate change that they'd ever joined."
In reality, the sour legacy of Copenhagen has haunted international climate negotiations ever since. It's now widely believed that the United States never wanted a legally binding climate deal in Copenhagen at alleven though the Democrats controlled the Congress at the time and may have been able to successfully ratify the treatyopting instead for a mostly empty pledge of billions of dollars in aid to developing nations. Among environmentalists, Clinton has retained only a mediocre reputation on climate change as a result.
Her Copenhagen comment wasn't just a poor choice of wording, because she brought it up again later in the debate. Climate activists on Twitter weren't psyched."
InfoView thread info, including edit history
TrashPut this thread in your Trash Can (My DU » Trash Can)
BookmarkAdd this thread to your Bookmarks (My DU » Bookmarks)
5 replies, 733 views
ShareGet links to this post and/or share on social media
AlertAlert this post for a rule violation
PowersThere are no powers you can use on this post
EditCannot edit other people's posts
ReplyReply to this post
EditCannot edit other people's posts
Rec (14)
ReplyReply to this post
5 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Hillary Clinton's Big Climate Change Accomplishment Was Actually a Huge Failure (Original Post)
pinebox
Oct 2015
OP
The same Senate that couldn't find 60 votes for cap and trade wasn't going to find 67
tritsofme
Oct 2015
#1
tritsofme
(17,377 posts)1. The same Senate that couldn't find 60 votes for cap and trade wasn't going to find 67
to ratify a legally binding treaty coming out of Copenhagen.
The summit was an overall failure, but at least Obama and Hillary walked away with something.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)3. Don't have to have 67.
See: The TPP.
It's not legally a treaty. It's a series of "executive actions" that only require a simple majority.
The same game can be played with other "treaties".
karynnj
(59,503 posts)4. Even Obama admitted at the time that it had been a failure
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/excerpt-obama-on-disappointment-in-copenhagen/
Additionally, what had been done was that we had nearly eliminated the possibility of working with China. You may not have followed the Bali conference in 2007, but its main positive outcome was a call for goals for both developed and developing nations that recognized that they had to be constructed differently. John Kerry had a lot to do with that accomplishment through his discussions with both the Chines and Indians - for which he actually was praised at both Senate and House committees by the Bush administration. At Bali, both Gore and Kerry raised expectations for Copenhagen when either a Democrat or McCain would likely be President.
At Indiana University, speaking on foreign policy, John Kerry spoke of the low expectations that Obama had when Kerry became Secretary of State.
To be honest, when I became Secretary of State, I was told that climate change was not likely to be a promising area for diplomacy. And China was a big part of the reason, because we had been completely opposed to each other at the last global meeting on climate in Copenhagen, and China was leading the charge of 77 nations to say your responsibility, not ours. China and the United States are now the two largest emitters of greenhouse gases in the world, just shy of 50 percent of all the gases. But earlier efforts at cooperation were nonstarters.
So shortly after I was sworn in in that February date that the president mentioned, I think I went to China in late March, early April. And I had called them two weeks earlier, called my counterpart and said, Look, heres what we need to do. We need to come together. Weve got to find a way to work on this. And when I come, I have a plan. Were going to lay it down, and lets see if we can do this. I proposed the start of regular, formal discussions with China that could break down the barriers and begin to build up our capacity to work together, and laid out every aspect of the issue in a systematic way.
Last fall, I visited I invited the Chinese state councilor to my hometown of Boston to talk about what more our nations could do together in order to tackle the problem. And then in January, after wed laid the groundwork, President Obama went to Beijing for further talks. The result was a spectacle that few expected: The American and Chinese presidents standing side-by-side in the Great Hall in Beijing to announce their nations respective their agreement to announce their nations respective greenhouse gas emissions targets for the years to come.
The substance mattered. It was a dramatic moment of transformation, where China and the United States joined together, and it took away the excuse from less-developed countries. And the symbolic breakthrough of this coordination was bigger than many of us maybe even anticipated. Since then, every major economy in the world and 150 nations have come forward with their own set of targets or, in the case of India, unveiled a plan to make massive new investments in alternative energy.
http://www.state.gov/secretary/remarks/2015/10/248257.htm
The US/China pact reflects what could be done to jump start an agreement that will lead to something that either can get or will not need Senate approval. Podesta, who worked on some of the details of this agreement had also developed in 2013 the Obama plan to make a difference using executive actions rather than something legislated. That Podesta is heading her campaign gives me more confidence that as President she might be decent on this issue than anything she personally has done.
I think that Copenhagen was a wasted opportunity. It might be that neither Obama or Clinton had the passion of a Gore or Kerry on this issue and did not want to expend the political capital that it would have required. I do think that had an agreement been reached at the end of 2009 that really did follow the principles agreed to at Bali, it could have been passed.
I followed the Senate work on climate change led by Kerry and Boxer. The fact is the Senators did not split on party lines. Many of the Democrats against it were from coal states. At that point, the tea party had not yet emerged - as they would the following summer. If there were an agreement with countries like China and India involved -- I think it would have been tough, but like the START treaty, I think Kerry and Lugar might have been able to round up the Senators needed. (I think it would have been tough - in early 2010 for a Democrat to vote against a climate change treaty.)
Additionally, what had been done was that we had nearly eliminated the possibility of working with China. You may not have followed the Bali conference in 2007, but its main positive outcome was a call for goals for both developed and developing nations that recognized that they had to be constructed differently. John Kerry had a lot to do with that accomplishment through his discussions with both the Chines and Indians - for which he actually was praised at both Senate and House committees by the Bush administration. At Bali, both Gore and Kerry raised expectations for Copenhagen when either a Democrat or McCain would likely be President.
At Indiana University, speaking on foreign policy, John Kerry spoke of the low expectations that Obama had when Kerry became Secretary of State.
To be honest, when I became Secretary of State, I was told that climate change was not likely to be a promising area for diplomacy. And China was a big part of the reason, because we had been completely opposed to each other at the last global meeting on climate in Copenhagen, and China was leading the charge of 77 nations to say your responsibility, not ours. China and the United States are now the two largest emitters of greenhouse gases in the world, just shy of 50 percent of all the gases. But earlier efforts at cooperation were nonstarters.
So shortly after I was sworn in in that February date that the president mentioned, I think I went to China in late March, early April. And I had called them two weeks earlier, called my counterpart and said, Look, heres what we need to do. We need to come together. Weve got to find a way to work on this. And when I come, I have a plan. Were going to lay it down, and lets see if we can do this. I proposed the start of regular, formal discussions with China that could break down the barriers and begin to build up our capacity to work together, and laid out every aspect of the issue in a systematic way.
Last fall, I visited I invited the Chinese state councilor to my hometown of Boston to talk about what more our nations could do together in order to tackle the problem. And then in January, after wed laid the groundwork, President Obama went to Beijing for further talks. The result was a spectacle that few expected: The American and Chinese presidents standing side-by-side in the Great Hall in Beijing to announce their nations respective their agreement to announce their nations respective greenhouse gas emissions targets for the years to come.
The substance mattered. It was a dramatic moment of transformation, where China and the United States joined together, and it took away the excuse from less-developed countries. And the symbolic breakthrough of this coordination was bigger than many of us maybe even anticipated. Since then, every major economy in the world and 150 nations have come forward with their own set of targets or, in the case of India, unveiled a plan to make massive new investments in alternative energy.
http://www.state.gov/secretary/remarks/2015/10/248257.htm
The US/China pact reflects what could be done to jump start an agreement that will lead to something that either can get or will not need Senate approval. Podesta, who worked on some of the details of this agreement had also developed in 2013 the Obama plan to make a difference using executive actions rather than something legislated. That Podesta is heading her campaign gives me more confidence that as President she might be decent on this issue than anything she personally has done.
I think that Copenhagen was a wasted opportunity. It might be that neither Obama or Clinton had the passion of a Gore or Kerry on this issue and did not want to expend the political capital that it would have required. I do think that had an agreement been reached at the end of 2009 that really did follow the principles agreed to at Bali, it could have been passed.
I followed the Senate work on climate change led by Kerry and Boxer. The fact is the Senators did not split on party lines. Many of the Democrats against it were from coal states. At that point, the tea party had not yet emerged - as they would the following summer. If there were an agreement with countries like China and India involved -- I think it would have been tough, but like the START treaty, I think Kerry and Lugar might have been able to round up the Senators needed. (I think it would have been tough - in early 2010 for a Democrat to vote against a climate change treaty.)
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)2. Thank You For Sharing
eom
Hydra
(14,459 posts)5. The US wasn't onboard at the time
Like everything else, polite noises were made while the reality was so far from it.
Now we're 6 more years into it, possibly past the tipping point...and wondering if the 1% will get out of the way for once so we can save their asses...again.